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At Smash's Gate - The Doom Marine/Doomguy/Doom Slayer Thread

Megadoomer

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I've been really eager to write movesets for characters lately. No idea why I'm in the mood to do that, but I'm rounding off my top three most-wanted playable characters with Doomguy's moveset. There are no fancy gimmicks here - only DOOM.


Doomguy Rips and Tears!

Doomguy would have four palette swaps based on his Doom Eternal design, and four based on his classic suit from Doom Eternal. Doom Eternal’s already been kind enough to give me obvious palette swaps for the classic costume – the regular green outfit, and the indigo, bronze, and red outfits that you got for buying the newest releases of Doom 1-3. For his Doom Eternal costume, aside from the default appearance, he could have Astro (white armour with a red visor), Phobos (gold and black armour with a dark grey visor), and Crimson (red armour with a dark grey visor).

For the series’ logo, I’d go with the Mark of the Slayer. While the UAC logo is more commonplace throughout the whole Doom series, it would seem really weird to represent Doomguy using the logo of the company that he has every reason to absolutely hate.

For a stage idea, one idea that I have is a mix of old and new – the first room of E1M1 from the original Doom, but done in the style of Doom (2016) and/or Doom Eternal. It could be called Phobos Base, it would be a walk-off, and recognizable demons from the Doom games (Imps, Pinkies, Cacodemons) could wander in to harass the players. Defeating them could cause them to vanish in a flash of Argent Energy (or explode comically), dropping a item if those happen to be turned on. (to give the player a reason, from a gameplay perspective, to kill the demons)

For his intro, a black and blue portal opens up and Doomguy steps through the portal before it vanishes, like the portal system in Doom Eternal. For his idle animations, Doomguy cracks his neck, examines his gun, or hops up and down impatiently, clearly not comfortable with standing still.

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While Joker’s Gun special seems to indicate that realistic-looking firearms might not be an issue any more, I’m willing to provide an alternative for some of them. The weapons of the most recent Doom games are decidedly more science fiction based in nature, with the shotguns being the big exception. If that winds up being a problem, the Super Shotgun’s Meathook in Doom Eternal can be upgraded to light opponents on fire, so perhaps the shotguns could shoot out bursts of flame that act the same way as shotgun shells in Smash if they need to make them seem less realistic. I feel like they could get away with Doomguy’s weapons, considering that Joker (and Kirby) can use a realistic-looking pistol (I’ve played Persona 5, so I’m aware that it’s a toy/model gun that works in the Metaverse because enemies think it’s a real gun, but that’s never stated in Smash if I recall correctly), but I figured I’d offer an alternative just to be on the safe side.

A-->AA-->AAA: Doomguy throws out a right hook and a left hook, followed by a big kick to send them flying. All of Doomguy’s melee attacks are based on Glory Kills.

Forward A: Doomguy fires his Super Shotgun straight ahead; this can also be used while walking.

Up A: pulling out the Chaingun, Doomguy fires it straight upwards into the air. Probably not the safest use of a gun, but who’s going to tell him to stop? The individual bullets do little knockback or damage, but the damage adds up.

Down A: Doomguy shoots at knee-level with the pistol from Doom 2016, which has more hit stun than usual if it connects to simulate weakening an enemy for a Glory Kill

Forward Smash: Doomguy pulls out the Ballista and charges it up. Firing sends out a red energy blade, and the more that it’s charged, the larger it is, and it will travel a larger distance.

Up Smash: Doomguy holds up the Crucible, and Argent energy crackles around it. The Crucible activates once the button is released, dealing more damage the longer you charge it.

Down Smash: Doomguy revs the chainsaw to charge it up, and he spins around while keeping the chainsaw low to the ground.

Neutral Air: Doomguy uses the Plasma Rifle and activates its Heat Blast

Forward Air: Doomguy pulls out the Heavy Cannon and fires a single shot using the Precision Bolt. This does more damage than his other aerials, but it requires incredibly precise timing.

Back Air: the Equipment Launcher rotates, and the Flame Belcher is fired behind Doomguy’s back.

Up Air: Doomguy shoots the Plasma Rifle straight up in the air. It’s not likely to KO enemies, but it’s a good way to build up damage.

Down Air: Doomguy fires a rocket launcher straight down. If he’s close enough to the ground, the explosion can keep him airborne for longer, referencing Quake’s rocket jump.

Dash Attack: Doomguy knees the opponent with a similar animation to Captain Falcon’s Knee attack.

Wake-Up Attack: propping himself up, Doomguy kicks out on one side while firing the Super Shotgun with the other – both do the same amount of damage.

Climb Attack: Doomguy swipes with his Doomblade before leaping back onto the stage.

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Grab: Doomguy grabs the opponent by the neck (or the top of their head if it’s someone like Kirby – I don’t think grab animations change depending on who’s grabbed)

Pummel: he punches them in the stomach with his free hand

Forward Throw: Doomguy punches the grabbed enemy in the face really hard, with enough force to send them flying.

Back Throw: turning around, Doomguy kicks the enemy’s leg before booting them away, similar to one of the Glory Kills that he can use on Imps in the 2016 game.

Up Throw: Doomguy sweep kicks the enemy, knocking them into the air before punching them with enough force that they hit the ground and bounce upwards.

Down Throw: Doomguy slams the opponent to the ground before stomping on them.

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Up Taunt: putting his guns wherever he puts them, Doomguy cracks his knuckles before using his hands to crack his neck.

Side Taunt: Doomguy pulls out a toy version of himself, adjusts the arm, and fist-bumps it

Down Taunt: Daisy (Doomguy’s pet bunny) hops around Doomguy’s feet while he watches calmly.

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B: Rocket Launcher – Doomguy pulls out his rocket launcher and fires three rockets in quick succession. A targeting reticule appears in front of Doomguy, and if the opponent happens to be inside the reticule or in between it and Doomguy, the rockets will home in for a short distance

Up B: Meathook – switching to the Super Shotgun from Doom Eternal, Doomguy launches the Meathook, dragging him towards whatever opponent or ledge it latches on to. You can press B at any point to fire the shotgun, though this will stop the recovery.

Side B: Dash – the only non-offensive part of Doomguy’s arsenal, this move is for either closing the distance between Doomguy and his opponent, or getting away from them if he needs to. There’s a brief period of invincibility in the middle of the dash, and it goes farther than a dodge roll, though the invincibility doesn’t last as long. Doomguy can do this twice before it needs to recharge, either on the ground or in the air.

Down B: Doomguy fires an Ice Bomb from his shoulder cannon, immobilizing anyone caught in the blast radius, though it doesn’t deal much damage. This gives Doomguy the opportunity to get some good hits in, or to put some distance between him and his opponent. Like in Doom Eternal, it takes some time to recharge after being used.

Final Smash: it’s the BFG 9000. I mean, come on – there’s no way that it could be anything else. Pulling out the BFG, Doomguy fires it straight ahead. Tendrils of energy come from the giant green ball, dragging enemies in and dealing damage. Once the ball gets far enough away from Doomguy, it explodes, automatically killing any enemy with 100% damage or more. Simple, straightforward, and involving unnecessary amounts of overkill – pretty much what you’d expect from Doomguy’s final smash.

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For one victory pose, he grabs the camera, looking at it before punching it away. For his second victory pose, I feel like I have to include this one – it’s perfect. For his third one, the camera pans up a pile of Imps and Zombies to show Doomguy standing on top of the pile, firing down at them like he does on the cover art of the original game.

His victory theme could be a snippet from At Doom’s Gate, specifically the 2016 remix. When Kirby copies him, he gets Doomguy’s modern helmet, and he can use the Rocket Launcher. It works the same way as Doomguy’s, though the targeting reticule is lower to the ground since Kirby’s shorter.

I tried using every weapon from Doom Eternal in there somewhere (aside from the Unmaykr; I couldn't find a place for that), along with the pistol from Doom (2016). I'm not entirely sure what's feasible when it comes to game development, but I figured I'd just type up my ideas and see how it turns out.
 
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cmbsfm

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Anyone else kinda think it’s hypocritical that Rayman is considered a front runner by many despite us getting a Ubisoft costume drop with FP5, yet Vault Boy is commonly said to hurt Doomguy and Dovahkin? Like keep it consistent ffs.

Also we’re likely to get a direct this month. I predict that we’ll finally get a release date for Doom Eternal on Switch.
 
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KirbyWorshipper2465

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Anyone else kinda think it’s hypocritical that Rayman is considered a front runner by many despite us getting a Ubisoft costume drop with FP5, yet Vault Boy is commonly said to hurt Doomguy and Dovahkin? Like keep it consistent ffs.

Also we’re likely to get a direct this month. I was predict that we’ll finally get a release date for Doom Eternal on Switch.
Getting everyone to agree about anything is a lost cause, honestly.

I expect shadow-drops more than anything, seeing as news distribution is in a constant flux right now.
 
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PatPrime

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Anyone else kinda think it’s hypocritical that Rayman is considered a front runner by many despite us getting a Ubisoft costume drop with FP5, yet Vault Boy is commonly said to hurt Doomguy and Dovahkin? Like keep it consistent ffs.

Also we’re likely to get a direct this month. I predict that we’ll finally get a release date for Doom Eternal on Switch.
I think the reasoning behind it is that the Ubisoft costumes were probably decided around the same time as the first fighter's pass was finalized in 2018, while the Vault Boy costume was decided on when the second pass was being decided on. Plus, Rayman in general is seeing some weird stuff going on like multiple trademarks, removal of survey questions involving Smash Bros and its DLC, etc.

Doomguy is my most wanted but Rayman is also right up there with him and Crash. So I would be happy with any one of them getting in.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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I think the reasoning behind it is that the Ubisoft costumes were probably decided around the same time as the first fighter's pass was finalized in 2018, while the Vault Boy costume was decided on when the second pass was being decided on. Plus, Rayman in general is seeing some weird stuff going on like multiple trademarks, removal of survey questions involving Smash Bros and its DLC, etc.

Doomguy is my most wanted but Rayman is also right up there with him and Crash. So I would be happy with any one of them getting in.
I've been feeling pretty good about Crash out of those three, myself, and Rayman is one of my most wanted.
 

Papa Pope

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I think the reasoning behind it is that the Ubisoft costumes were probably decided around the same time as the first fighter's pass was finalized in 2018, while the Vault Boy costume was decided on when the second pass was being decided on. Plus, Rayman in general is seeing some weird stuff going on like multiple trademarks, removal of survey questions involving Smash Bros and its DLC, etc.

Doomguy is my most wanted but Rayman is also right up there with him and Crash. So I would be happy with any one of them getting in.
Yeah, I want all three of them to, Crash I think is all but guaranteed, but I think Rayman and Doomguy are in similar situations since their companies already have Mii costumes. For those two, I think at this point it's difficult to determine their exact chances, but if I was a betting man, I would say that Rayman has a better shot than the Slayer unfortunately.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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Yeah, I want all three of them to, Crash I think is all but guaranteed, but I think Rayman and Doomguy are in similar situations since their companies already have Mii costumes. For those two, I think at this point it's difficult to determine their exact chances, but if I was a betting man, I would say that Rayman has a better shot than the Slayer unfortunately.
Adding to that, at least the Slayer has a foreseeable future that lets him potentially get in the next Smash. Rayman is currently stuck with nothing but mobile games, and Smash support is the only thing he's got left until Ancel eventually finishes his passion projects.

We can afford to take a loss, Rayman fans not so much.
 
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GolisoPower

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So we finally have what might be a glitch involving Ridley.


You guys think it may have something to do with Doom Slayer or something? Because this looks a hell of a lot like some sort of Crucible stuff to me.
 
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EarlTamm

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So we finally have what might be a glitch involving Ridley.


You guys think it may have something to do with Doom Slayer or something? Because this looks a hell of a lot like some sort of Crucible stuff to me.
Well, Ridley's down b was changed in the patch, so this glitch existing makes sense in that regard. If a glitch existed for something that was not noted to change, that's more suspicious.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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So we finally have what might be a glitch involving Ridley.


You guys think it may have something to do with Doom Slayer or something? Because this looks a hell of a lot like some sort of Crucible stuff to me.
I find it funny how Ridley has been argued to be a base for :ultbanjokazooie: for a bit, and then this happens.
 

Guynamednelson

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So we finally have what might be a glitch involving Ridley.


You guys think it may have something to do with Doom Slayer or something? Because this looks a hell of a lot like some sort of Crucible stuff to me.
They wanted to nerf a Ridley combo.
 

Papa Pope

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So we finally have what might be a glitch involving Ridley.


You guys think it may have something to do with Doom Slayer or something? Because this looks a hell of a lot like some sort of Crucible stuff to me.
Honestly, when I heard about this glitch, the first thing I thought of was Scorpion's chain, but yeah, it likely means nothing.
 

GolisoPower

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Honestly, when I heard about this glitch, the first thing I thought of was Scorpion's chain, but yeah, it likely means nothing.
Right, but as I've said before, the ties between upcoming fighters and glitches have been consistent since Joker's release. We don't know who this Ridley glitch might be hinting at, but it could be hinting at someone.
 
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Papa Pope

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Right, but as I've said before, the ties between upcoming fighters and glitches have been consistent since Joker's release. We don't know who this Ridley glitch might be hinting at, but it could be hinting at someone.
Well, from what I've seen in the patch notes, Ridley's down b was one of the moves that was patched, so I think it's more than likely a screw up with the patches than using a base for one of the next characters. I'm just airing on the side of caution with this one, I would love to be wrong though.
 

Ridley_Prime

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Bug or not, I hate that nerf since it made me have to lab out down tilt > skewer since you can no longer followup with it after down throw. :u
 

Davidius

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Just in case nobody knows, the console ports were updated with Back to Saturn X E1 being added, even with some changes like level names.
And BattleMode gets new content like the retro/Quakecon podiums, a classic based Revenant and a cosplay skin for Doomguy.
The more i see of Eternal's additional content and online stuff, i wonder how it can be preserved/accessible/documented/interacted/customized for the future.
For a series about longevity and costumization, i fear that any bit of content is lost in the past or locked from something specific, specially since the new games broke franchise records and are so well recieved, i don't see the point of this event/service stuff and how you get these skins besides just getting people more dedicated to the game.
I've seen complaints about how Twitch Prime isn't in some countries or BethNet screwing up with how you can get skins or even play single player.
And besides that and that one Denuvo anti-cheat thing, i hope id is considering some post mortem plan for the game because much like the older Doom's, you'd soon have to leave it to fans to carry the game, depending on what happens to Battlemode, Empowered Demons, invasion etc and whatever the modding will be like.
Or even some re-release with every bit of content and feature in, along with more control for the players and making sure nothing in it ever dies because of lack of internet or some service/subscription thing, whether it's Twitch Prime, BethesdaNet, Slayer's Club or whatever.

Doom 2016's MP and SnapMap weren't popular but still had unique features and even bits of lore, along with some impact on mods like D4T and MetaDoom.
And there's also stuff like the arcade mode's scores or player deaths in UV.
Doom 3's multiplayer is barely documented or given attention, even about its access and the BFG edition mistreated that game.
VFR? I'm not sure how if that game ever had some non-VR playable mode.
Mobile Doom titles are almost lost, hard to find, require emulation and updates on modern phones broke them from what i recall.
And 64's legacy came from unofficial/fan ports that soon lead to an official one and, you know what? This is becoming a topic on its own but i feel like every bit of Doom (Or any games) should be "eternal", even the less liked ones and in this day and age, even the Internet Archive is on an unfortunate spot and so many companies want to have their own Netflix.

Even stuff like concept art, lore book pages and OST music selection could have been in the games for some digital preservation/access.
I just thank that Carmack even released source codes of his games and feel like what i'm saying is something that even developers would like, since it could benefit everyone and have no downsides at all.
Being a series where gameplay comes first, it makes sense documention of the games involves interacting with them, since it fits the medium too.

Anyway, one reason to explore the classic games aesthetic is to get details like how classic Doomguy's head is "flat" on the top, which also applied to classic BJ Blazkowicz.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbDOsNtXQAENHBK?format=png&name=900x900
Honestly, i think some low-poly-ish/cel-shaded art style could fit Doom, like Quake styled models with Doom's color palette that could bring the Doom art style to 3D by keeping some 2D elements.
This whole "games as a service" thing is going to be (already is) a nightmare for preservation and unfortunately I think publishers will forever gladly allow their old games to become unusable abandonware than simply release the source or even give the community some basic server hosting software to emulate the old experience. It used to be the case that exclusively sticking to official matchmaking and p2p was considered a bad thing on PC but now it's simply accepted.

Doom Eternal desperately needs more support for offline community created maps and mods as the current regime of monthly skins behind weird challenges doesn't really add anything to the game. They seem to be far more invested in developing Battlemode even though it's just a curiosity for many people. Both schemes will eventually lose official server support and chances are become unusable. Maybe they'll repackage it all to resell it to people as a remaster but the game itself has a good chance of being abandoned.

I think the reasoning behind it is that the Ubisoft costumes were probably decided around the same time as the first fighter's pass was finalized in 2018, while the Vault Boy costume was decided on when the second pass was being decided on. Plus, Rayman in general is seeing some weird stuff going on like multiple trademarks, removal of survey questions involving Smash Bros and its DLC, etc.

Doomguy is my most wanted but Rayman is also right up there with him and Crash. So I would be happy with any one of them getting in.
To my knowledge we really don't know the scheme or timeline for how Mii fighter costumes are decided. In the case of the fighter pass it makes sense for it all to be done at once because it's a bundle split among several parties. AFAIK there aren't Mii costume bundles (there might be, I haven't seen them) and the negotiation to release timeline could be comparatively small or fluid. For example, it remains possible that Ubisoft's costumes were chosen to release with Byleth not that long before November. I certainly don't think either case is damning toward their associated characters, it simply comes off negatively because of the precedent. They could have simply decided to release them before a fighter for any reason.

In terms of speculation: while my expectations for this pass are that it will be even more restrained than the first and I rate Doomguy's chances pretty low after that Marty Stratton interview, I do find it curious that Vault Boy was chosen when Doom and Elder Scrolls are definitely the more popular requests. Similarly for Rayman. It could just be because Vault Boy's more amenable to being a Mii costume.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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In terms of speculation: while my expectations for this pass are that it will be even more restrained than the first and I rate Doomguy's chances pretty low after that Marty Stratton interview, I do find it curious that Vault Boy was chosen when Doom and Elder Scrolls are definitely the more popular requests. Similarly for Rayman. It could just be because Vault Boy's more amenable to being a Mii costume.
Furthermore, there is yet to be a spirit event for any Bethesda property. It doesn't seem like it'd be that complicated to negotiate for, so what's the holdup?
 

Megadoomer

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The release date for the Switch version of Doom Eternal will apparently be announced "pretty soon."

https://nintendoeverything.com/doom...n-will-be-every-bit-as-good-as-doom-2016-was/

I got the game on Steam, but much like with Doom (2016), I've got no problems with double-dipping on a Switch version. While I think I preferred the 2016 game overall (there was much more to keep track of in Eternal, and much more resource management - it's good in that I didn't rely on the same weapon over and over, but bad in that I kept running out of ammo for weapons that I needed and had to pause, track down a weaker enemy, and chainsaw them pretty regularly), I'd gladly play through Eternal again.
 

GolisoPower

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The release date for the Switch version of Doom Eternal will apparently be announced "pretty soon."

https://nintendoeverything.com/doom...n-will-be-every-bit-as-good-as-doom-2016-was/

I got the game on Steam, but much like with Doom (2016), I've got no problems with double-dipping on a Switch version. While I think I preferred the 2016 game overall (there was much more to keep track of in Eternal, and much more resource management - it's good in that I didn't rely on the same weapon over and over, but bad in that I kept running out of ammo for weapons that I needed and had to pause, track down a weaker enemy, and chainsaw them pretty regularly), I'd gladly play through Eternal again.
Ohhhh! I can't wait! :D
 

GolisoPower

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Hey, I just thought. If Doom Slayer does make it to Smash, do you think Nintendo would...

...get Matthew Waterson in to record some new lines for him? Or would that spoil a bit of Doom Eternal or something?
 

SharkLord

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Hey, I just thought. If Doom Slayer does make it to Smash, do you think Nintendo would...

...get Matthew Waterson in to record some new lines for him? Or would that spoil a bit of Doom Eternal or something?
Probably not. It's too early for spoilers just yet, and that only happened in flashbacks anyways.
 

pupNapoleon

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Anyone else kinda think it’s hypocritical that Rayman is considered a front runner by many despite us getting a Ubisoft costume drop with FP5, yet Vault Boy is commonly said to hurt Doomguy and Dovahkin? Like keep it consistent ffs.
You, sir, are trying to make sense out of a nonsense community.
 

doomguywhen1993

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Speaking on fans using cheat engine or anything to get the skins, that's another thing: Cheats, hacks or even piracy being alternatives because official methods of getting something are limited and sometimes non-existent.
Nothing is lost or bad for anyone by simply trying to preserve and make some content more accessable and future proof.
The "service" aspect is also weird, when the game and the series as a whole are loved by everyone that the gameplay just being good is good enough to get people hooked, but i don't expect ZeniMax executives to get that (Even for a title that broke records in Doom).

Doomguy shouldn't talk just because he talked in flashbacks (And also like Doom 2 RPG if you consider him to be Stan or some secret comic video on a Quake console port). since being silent is an aspect of him and him talking was mostly done for fanservice and to canonize a fan portrayal of him.
Also, check this voxel Zombieman out https://twitter.com/DanielWienerson/status/1279361968382435328
A good way to bring classic Doom to 3D models and this is from someone that also did some Quake styled Cacodemon and Baron models
It also turns out that the BattleMode classic Revenant skin has alts referencing the Doom RPG revenant classes, which is neat even if the colors or names are switched.
 

PublicServant

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Also, check this voxel Zombieman out https://twitter.com/DanielWienerson/status/1279361968382435328
A good way to bring classic Doom to 3D models and this is from someone that also did some Quake styled Cacodemon and Baron models.
The likelihood of Classic Doom content having a presence in Smash outside of Spirits, Music, references, etc. aside, what's wrong with just using the sprites as is?

It's not as if Smash would have any problem with rendering them on the battlefield (assuming this is what you're talking about); Mr. Game & Watch is testament to that fact.
 

MattX20

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I'm just hoping the Doom Eternal Switch release date isn't too far away from July
 

Koopaul

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I'll admit I'll be pretty sad if we get a FPS rep that isn't the Doom Slayer. Doom is pretty much the most important series in the history of that genre. Also, it's just straight up cool.

I got nothing agian Halo, but when I think about that series getting in Smash vs Doom, it just doesn't seem as exciting. A Halo stage, with Halo music, and Halo spirits wouldn't be bad. But it's not nearly as exciting as getting a Doom stage, with Doom music, and Doom spirits. Yeah it's more than just the character, it's the whole package. Doom rocks, and I would enjoy everything we got.
 

chemo

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I'll admit I'll be pretty sad if we get a FPS rep that isn't the Doom Slayer. Doom is pretty much the most important series in the history of that genre. Also, it's just straight up cool.

I got nothing agian Halo, but when I think about that series getting in Smash vs Doom, it just doesn't seem as exciting. A Halo stage, with Halo music, and Halo spirits wouldn't be bad. But it's not nearly as exciting as getting a Doom stage, with Doom music, and Doom spirits. Yeah it's more than just the character, it's the whole package. Doom rocks, and I would enjoy everything we got.
I'm almost definitely in the minority, but TBH Master Chief getting in over Doomguy is something I outright dread.

I recently played a little bit of CE (about 2 1/2 levels worth) and 2 (about 1/2 level worth; I couldn't force myself to get further through) because of Game Pass for PC, and it was quite honestly some of the most miserable experiences I've had within the FPS genre. Like, I didn't have high expectations going to begin with, but it felt like Bungie took what made games such as DOOM, Quake, Unreal, etc. fun and sucked all of it out. Maybe it gets better later on (after all, this is the advice I give to people who have poor first impressions of DOOM Eternal), but I don't have the patience for it.

Also, I don't think Chief's nostalgia power and his series being one of the first console FPS's to "work" come even close to what the DOOM series has achieved and could bring to the table in Smash.
 
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KirbyWorshipper2465

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On the contrary, I'd feel pretty good if either Chief or the Slayer got in Smash. Having :ultmario: square off against Microsoft's own gaming legend is almost criminal a chance to pass up, if you ask me.

Besides, like I've said, the Slayer's series is in no danger right now, so his movement would only grow by the time of Smash 6.
 

Koopaul

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Well it's not even about Cheif it's the fact that all the Halo music is just kinda okay. But Doom music! That's music you want to brawl to!

Also, I looked at all the different locations a Halo stage might take place. Some alien forest. A typical sci-fi space station. But a Doom stage! Demon infested facility. Scroched landscape of Mars. Literal Hell.

Doom just has so much more going for it as a whole. I think even more that Doom Slayer I'd be excited for a Doom stage and music. Ofcourse I'd be excited for him too.
 

GolisoPower

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So remember back when in this thread when I had the idea of vertical auto-aiming to emulate classic Doom?

Well, if you check Min Min's hitboxes here, more specifically the Dragon Laser hitboxes, you'll find that it can be achieved somewhat. Seems pretty good, right?
 
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doomguywhen1993

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Besides classic/legacy representation and the designs being simpler, i think classic Doom has a lot of visuals that feel more "specific".
Like, the classic Doom aesthetic that always was and these iconic designs, even if something like the Cacodemon have some copycat origins.
Specially with the levels because how UAC bases and Hell look in 1/2, it's an aesthetic you may not see have similarities with a lot of other games.
So, some tech facilities or Hell places in some other games may look like how a Mars facility in Doom 2016 or Doom 3's Hell look like, since aside from occasional references, later Doom games don't really carry that much of classic Doom's looks.
Maybe it's the time and period of when these games came out or even the inspirations behind the art styles, but also how sprites and textures were made.
Or the fact that the sci-fi part of the series was originally low-tech/Used Future-like (With the old industrial pipes and blue carpeted floors) and Hell was this combination of different elements that even reflects the diverse looking enemies or how abstract Hell can be (Also fun fact: Before Phobos with the gray sky and Earth-like mountains, one of the early background for Tei Tenga during Doom's development was a typical black sky moon background).
I feel like a lot can play with/explain custom levels, enemies, weapons and a lot of mod or fan related work.
The series in itself changed art direction multiple times while it was mostly fans that "expanded" the classic portion of the Doom universe, even if it was fan works (In a way that, if Doom never shifted art direction and kept getting new games, a lot of things that fans came up with could have probably been thought out by id themselves).
Perhaps the fact that fans sort of did a Doom universe before is why the official Doom universe feels so different from what you'd expect out of Doom, because what could have fit or feel more familiar was already done by fans and even with the occasional fanservice or "canonization" of some fan originating concept, the new universe will still be mostly a new prespective.
I think classic Doom having a more specific aesthetic might also be because the series was mostly made by a smaller group with different methods and material but ever since 3, Doom became more "professional" and modernized (Like an 80's B movie compared to a Hollywood blockbuster or something).
Even if the new games have a special place to stand out from other games, they still show a few trends, whether it can be in the gameplay design or even the art style.
Even the title logo shows this where the blue wires/yellow bricks texture aesthetic is replaced with a more minimalist/graffiti look (I remember a comment saying that even the classic logo has some brutalist/80's comic aesthetic that isn't in the game).

I think the idea of Master Chief and Doomguy being compared to one another (Or ever being in the same game) is another reason for his main design to be the classic armor with some details from later designs (Specially the blade and shoulder cannon) because the Praetor suit sort of broke the distinction that two iconic green FPS soldiers used to have, since they weren't that comparable besides some specific similarities and Marathon (Specially since people used to say MC copied Doomguy somehow and suddenly it's the other way around and more noticeable, which sort of happened with Tomb Raider and Uncharted, kind of).
I think in general a MetaDoom/MiniDoom 2-esque representation of mixing different era's/games is a good way to go, whether it's because of the obscure material to be referenced or the case of "X may have this but Y has this, so don't forget Z".
When i see people complain that "the Slayer no longer hides his face and shows off his arms", one sees that as something to poke fun at new fans, but it also says something about the new games and how they changed Doom.
And with Doom being mostly universally loved, i usually go with a "nobody hates it" mentally when it comes to how much of classic Doom you can pull out for something like a crossover or even a new game, until you hit something like infinite heights or the missing pixels from some sprites.

I sound like a weird picky nerd saying stuff like this, but i feel like this isn't really wrong.
Even if these games aged weirdly, that's why mods and source ports are relevant to Doom because they make it age a little bit better by fixing or reworking some bits, only to not go that far away from the point.
So, a lot that made Doom Doom is still there, even if you get rid of hitscan in favor of actual fast bullets/shotgun shells or use HUD timers for power ups instead of some color filter smeared in your screen.
Then again, Smash wasn't always perfect with representing a lot of franchises.
I also think Doom 1/2 textures are in the same space as the assets and decorations you'd see from Mario, Sonic or even Minecraft, like it's part of its DNA.
 

PublicServant

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I think the idea of Master Chief and Doomguy being compared to one another (Or ever being in the same game) is another reason for his main design to be the classic armor with some details from later designs (Specially the blade and shoulder cannon) because the Praetor suit sort of broke the distinction that two iconic green FPS soldiers used to have, since they weren't that comparable besides some specific similarities and Marathon (Specially since people used to say MC copied Doomguy somehow and suddenly it's the other way around and more noticeable, which sort of happened with Tomb Raider and Uncharted, kind of).
I think in general a MetaDoom/MiniDoom 2-esque representation of mixing different era's/games is a good way to go, whether it's because of the obscure material to be referenced or the case of "X may have this but Y has this, so don't forget Z".
I feel that the Slayer's Suit in Eternal already achieves this fusion of artstyles you mention: it uses the 2016 Praetor Suit as an overall base, while incorporating aspects from his classic appearances such as a more vibrant green colouration, exposed upper arms, a brown midsection that emulates the exposed abdominal muscles, a more translucent visor, etc.

It'd be pretty redundant for Ninty/Id to work on a completely new set of armour when the current one already fulfils their intentions for doing so.
 

Ridley_Prime

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Oh, I remember when that youtuber was a user here during the Ridley support/speculation days. :u Good to see though regardless; Doomguy needed another moveset concept vid like that.
 

Davidius

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For Doomguy in Smash I would definitely lean into classic Doom more, it's really on the basis of their legacy that he "deserves" a spot.
Base his default outfit on the classic marine skin from Champions/Eternal and use classic assets on his stage. Hell even call him "Doomguy". Drawing some moves from Eternal wouldn't be a bad thing though.

I'm almost definitely in the minority, but TBH Master Chief getting in over Doomguy is something I outright dread.

I recently played a little bit of CE (about 2 1/2 levels worth) and 2 (about 1/2 level worth; I couldn't force myself to get further through) because of Game Pass for PC, and it was quite honestly some of the most miserable experiences I've had within the FPS genre. Like, I didn't have high expectations going to begin with, but it felt like Bungie took what made games such as DOOM, Quake, Unreal, etc. fun and sucked all of it out. Maybe it gets better later on (after all, this is the advice I give to people who have poor first impressions of DOOM Eternal), but I don't have the patience for it.

Also, I don't think Chief's nostalgia power and his series being one of the first console FPS's to "work" come even close to what the DOOM series has achieved and could bring to the table in Smash.
While I've had fun with Halo in the past I do think it's a bit overrated. The campaigns are definitely a slog and a co-op partner is almost mandatory. Multiplayer is good in the "party game" sense because of the low barrier to entry and I had a good time goofing off in custom edition servers. I don't have any problem with Master Chief as a character and I think his inclusion would be good, but it really shouldn't come at the expense of Doomguy.
 

PublicServant

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For Doomguy in Smash I would definitely lean into classic Doom more, it's really on the basis of their legacy that he "deserves" a spot.
Base his default outfit on the classic marine skin from Champions/Eternal and use classic assets on his stage. Hell even call him "Doomguy". Drawing some moves from Eternal wouldn't be a bad thing though.
Why not the Classic Suit as shown in Doom Eternal? Not only is it miles more accurate to the source material compared to the one in Quake Champions, it also allows him to still utilise his equipment cannon and Doomblade for his arsenal.

Realistically speaking, they'll most likely utilise his Eternal armour (which is already incredibly faithful to the original armour) and have his classic outfit as his alt. And in all honesty, is their anything particularly wrong with that?
 

Davidius

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Why not the Classic Suit as shown in Doom Eternal? Not only is it miles more accurate to the source material compared to the one in Quake Champions, it also allows him to still utilise his equipment cannon and Doomblade for his arsenal.

Realistically speaking, they'll most likely utilise his Eternal armour (which is already incredibly faithful to the original armour) and have his classic outfit as his alt. And in all honesty, is their anything particularly wrong with that?
The classic suit in Eternal is based off the Champions model which is why I mentioned both Champions and Eternal. I like it better than the default suit in Eternal, it's just plain simpler and more memorable. Even the grey helmet just sticks out better.
I'd be happy to get Doomguy at all but that would be my ideal. Similarly I always wished Smash would let you use the MGS1 appearance for Snake.
 
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doomguywhen1993

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There's also technically two classic Doomguy's: The cover box art one and the one in the ingame sprites, with differences like the colors of gloves (With brass knuckles), boots, helmet and i guess armbands too.
I thought Doomguy's Smash design could have been the classic armor with some reboot/Eternal details (Mark of slayer on helmet, red dot, doomblade, shoulder gun, maybe some more weird tech details) and some 3/64 stuff by side, like maybe shoes or the belt area based off 3 or 64's antenna.
And the back could go with the red dot from Doom 2's cover.
I think the Quake 3 model was supposed to be classic Doomguy's sprites, since there was a sketch from Adrian Carmack for Doom 1 with concept art for Doomguy.
https://i.imgur.com/ruNGH72.jpg
As for his face, an attempt to "depixelize"/almost Neural Upscale his head to the point the aspect ratio is correct and his head has almost the same shape.
Because the Eternal Praetor suit is still mostly a new design with the "classic" parts being the exposed arms and maybe some details of the helmet but i'm sure we can go a little bit more "classic" without going too far.

In other news, there's a teaser for Reelism 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TFd-7kcPH0 and Decino made a video explaining the Icon of Sin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9OmOjxHDA4
 
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