At Smash's Gate - The Doom Marine/Doomguy/Doom Slayer Thread

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

The whole Mii Costume situation has certainly been a divisive one, especially with Bethesda content confirmed to be on the way

Meanwhile, Imran Khan suggested that this next pass might mostly focus on first parties.

https://twitter.com/imranzomg/status/1275067203847483403

Which, while not speaking well for Slayer's chances, does understandably balance profit a little more for Nintendo's end of things when some third-parties can be tough to afford and get returns for.

 

[MattX20]

100 pages now

 

[Ender1645]

Woo 100 pages

 

[The_Naraotor]

100 pages time to reload the Super Shotgun !

Breathin ........ EXHALE ! RIP AND TEAR Slayer for Smash Bros

 

[Pokelego999]

I don't think i've posted here yet... Support added. Doom is one of the few third parties I'd be happy with in this game.

 

[ThunderSageNun]

all I can say is that if they decide to focus on 1st parties they at least give love to series yet to be represented by a fighter like Advance Wars or at least franchises like Zelda, DK or Kirby that feel a little underloved in representation. But I do hope there's still a fair share of plans for 3rd party characters, I'm not really all that invested in Nintendos own IPs anymore despite loving Smash Bros., but we'll just see how the next fighters turn out in the next 2 years to see if Khan is right or not.

 

[Ender1645]

They way he is saying that seems to be more of a prediction to me than something like outsider knowledge, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s like that. I just hope something Doom related happens

 

[M00NFIRE94]

Happy 100 Pages

 

[MattX20]

I've not kept track for a while, but has the Eternal Switch port had a release date announced yet?

 

[Matadormon]

I've not kept track for a while, but has the Eternal Switch port had a release date announced yet?

Nope.

 

[Room100]

Personally I'm not too worried about Vault Boy's costume affecting Doomguy's chances. My main point of reference is Banjo and the Cuphead costume; it always confused me why two Microsoft-related properties weren't paired together, but it just might not matter.

I'm not getting my hopes up in general, if anything I'm a little worried Min Min fills a ranged-focused spot on the DLC instead of Doomguy. But I think Doomguy would lend himself to a much different, way more aggressive playstyle. Hopefully they agree!

 

[PublicServant]

I'm not getting my hopes up in general, if anything I'm a little worried Min Min fills a ranged-focused spot on the DLC instead of Doomguy. But I think Doomguy would lend himself to a much different, way more aggressive playstyle. Hopefully they agree!

IMO, Min Min plays the polar opposite of an ideal Doom Slayer.

Min Min's kit is designed so that she's most effective when playing keep-away with the opponent, as both her arms pack quite the punch but are generally slow and easy to dodge. They also leave a sizeable blind spot across the length of her arms, making her especially vulnerable to those who can dodge the initial punches and whale on her from there.

Contrast that with (what I assume people expect from) the Slayer. While the main star of the show would no doubt be his arsenal of firearms, these wouldn't be designed for long-range target-softening/staggering. All of them would either encourage or facilitate the Slayer to get up close and personal with the enemy to tear them to shreds, while dancing around their attacks in a manner that outright demands constant movement.

 

[doomguywhen1993]

Just in case nobody knows, the console ports were updated with Back to Saturn X E1 being added, even with some changes like level names.
And BattleMode gets new content like the retro/Quakecon podiums, a classic based Revenant and a cosplay skin for Doomguy.
The more i see of Eternal's additional content and online stuff, i wonder how it can be preserved/accessible/documented/interacted/customized for the future.
For a series about longevity and costumization, i fear that any bit of content is lost in the past or locked from something specific, specially since the new games broke franchise records and are so well recieved, i don't see the point of this event/service stuff and how you get these skins besides just getting people more dedicated to the game.
I've seen complaints about how Twitch Prime isn't in some countries or BethNet screwing up with how you can get skins or even play single player.
And besides that and that one Denuvo anti-cheat thing, i hope id is considering some post mortem plan for the game because much like the older Doom's, you'd soon have to leave it to fans to carry the game, depending on what happens to Battlemode, Empowered Demons, invasion etc and whatever the modding will be like.
Or even some re-release with every bit of content and feature in, along with more control for the players and making sure nothing in it ever dies because of lack of internet or some service/subscription thing, whether it's Twitch Prime, BethesdaNet, Slayer's Club or whatever.

Doom 2016's MP and SnapMap weren't popular but still had unique features and even bits of lore, along with some impact on mods like D4T and MetaDoom.
And there's also stuff like the arcade mode's scores or player deaths in UV.
Doom 3's multiplayer is barely documented or given attention, even about its access and the BFG edition mistreated that game.
VFR? I'm not sure how if that game ever had some non-VR playable mode.
Mobile Doom titles are almost lost, hard to find, require emulation and updates on modern phones broke them from what i recall.
And 64's legacy came from unofficial/fan ports that soon lead to an official one and, you know what? This is becoming a topic on its own but i feel like every bit of Doom (Or any games) should be "eternal", even the less liked ones and in this day and age, even the Internet Archive is on an unfortunate spot and so many companies want to have their own Netflix.

Even stuff like concept art, lore book pages and OST music selection could have been in the games for some digital preservation/access.
I just thank that Carmack even released source codes of his games and feel like what i'm saying is something that even developers would like, since it could benefit everyone and have no downsides at all.
Being a series where gameplay comes first, it makes sense documention of the games involves interacting with them, since it fits the medium too.

Anyway, one reason to explore the classic games aesthetic is to get details like how classic Doomguy's head is "flat" on the top, which also applied to classic BJ Blazkowicz.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbDOsNtXQAENHBK?format=png&name=900x900
Honestly, i think some low-poly-ish/cel-shaded art style could fit Doom, like Quake styled models with Doom's color palette that could bring the Doom art style to 3D by keeping some 2D elements.

 

[Ender1645]

Just in case nobody knows, the console ports were updated with Back to Saturn X E1 being added, even with some changes like level names.
And BattleMode gets new content like the retro/Quakecon podiums, a classic based Revenant and a cosplay skin for Doomguy.
The more i see of Eternal's additional content and online stuff, i wonder how it can be preserved/accessible/documented/interacted/customized for the future.
For a series about longevity and costumization, i fear that any bit of content is lost in the past or locked from something specific, specially since the new games broke franchise records and are so well recieved, i don't see the point of this event/service stuff and how you get these skins besides just getting people more dedicated to the game.
I've seen complaints about how Twitch Prime isn't in some countries or BethNet screwing up with how you can get skins or even play single player.
And besides that and that one Denuvo anti-cheat thing, i hope id is considering some post mortem plan for the game because much like the older Doom's, you'd soon have to leave it to fans to carry the game, depending on what happens to Battlemode, Empowered Demons, invasion etc and whatever the modding will be like.
Or even some re-release with every bit of content and feature in, along with more control for the players and making sure nothing in it ever dies because of lack of internet or some service/subscription thing, whether it's Twitch Prime, BethesdaNet, Slayer's Club or whatever.

Doom 2016's MP and SnapMap weren't popular but still had unique features and even bits of lore, along with some impact on mods like D4T and MetaDoom.
And there's also stuff like the arcade mode's scores or player deaths in UV.
Doom 3's multiplayer is barely documented or given attention, even about its access and the BFG edition mistreated that game.
VFR? I'm not sure how if that game ever had some non-VR playable mode.
Mobile Doom titles are almost lost, hard to find, require emulation and updates on modern phones broke them from what i recall.
And 64's legacy came from unofficial/fan ports that soon lead to an official one and, you know what? This is becoming a topic on its own but i feel like every bit of Doom (Or any games) should be "eternal", even the less liked ones and in this day and age, even the Internet Archive is on an unfortunate spot and so many companies want to have their own Netflix.

Even stuff like concept art, lore book pages and OST music selection could have been in the games for some digital preservation/access.
I just thank that Carmack even released source codes of his games and feel like what i'm saying is something that even developers would like, since it could benefit everyone and have no downsides at all.
Being a series where gameplay comes first, it makes sense documention of the games involves interacting with them, since it fits the medium too.

Anyway, one reason to explore the classic games aesthetic is to get details like how classic Doomguy's head is "flat" on the top, which also applied to classic BJ Blazkowicz.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbDOsNtXQAENHBK?format=png&name=900x900
Honestly, i think some low-poly-ish/cel-shaded art style could fit Doom, like Quake styled models with Doom's color palette that could bring the Doom art style to 3D by keeping some 2D elements.

I don’t like how Doom Eternals cosmetics work for that reason alone. I hope there can be an accessible way to get those old items that DOESNT HAVE TO DO WITH MONEY!!! The skins and cosmetics are so good that it’s really upsetting to miss their series events.

I hope that if ID does nothing about it fans will make a cheat engine on PC to get the cosmetics...

 

[Koopaul]

Violence was never an issue. They'd probably handle Doom like they handled Bayonetta. I figure the stage would have some cacodemons and some other monsters pop up in the background of his stage like the angel monsters do in Bayonetta's stage. Doom Slayer would show his brutality like Ridley. It would look cruel but not bloody. He'd stomp on and slam into his opponents. His down throw throw someone to the ground and stomp on them. And if they think Doom Slayer acting cruel AND armed with realistic weapons is too much, well he's got a ton of sci-fi weapons to wield as well. He'd be easy to work around.

Doom Slayer's biggest problem was never the violence. It was the fact that Western 3rd Party fighters are never a common thing. Most of the time Nintendo and Sakurai want to work with fellow Japanese developers. Makes sense. They speak the same language and its easier to get ahold of them.

A part of me almost feels like Banjo might be our only Western 3rd party fighter. And if we do get another Western 3rd party... what are the odds its Doom? Doom is up against Crash Bandicoot, Elder Scrolls, Overwatch, Minecraft and more. Games that are actually well liked in Japan and have a wider audience than Doom has. Personally, I'd prefer Doom over any of those. But ask a million other people and they'd take the above in a heartbeat. And I have a feeling Nintendo would too.

 

[ThunderSageNun]

While I agree being a western IP with not much of a following in Japan is one of the Slayer steeper hills to overcome, I'd say the historic legacy of the franchise and ties with Nintendo since its debut (shacky as that was with all the censorship back then) does give him at least something in his favor over other western IPs. I also imagine negotiating with Bethesda would be easier than Activision, but that just might be me, as we did get content from a less than reputable company with Konami for that to neccesarily be an issue.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Reminder that we still get stuff from Metroid even with the IP barely getting the time of day in Japan. Not to mention Sak's "fun over recognizability" statement from the Terry stream.

 

[ThunderSageNun]

Reminder that we still get stuff from Metroid even with the IP barely getting the time of day in Japan. Not to mention Sak's "fun over recognizability" statement from the Terry stream.

Add to this that Banjo wasn't exactly super hot in popularity over the east compared to Minecraft and we still got him over Steve. I wouldn't toss him aside as another potential western rep just yet.

 

[valkiriforce]

I haven't posted here in a while but congrats on 100 pages!

I'm not fully convinced from Vault Boy's inclusion that he somehow affects Doomguy's chances - I feel like we need something more concrete than what people have been suggesting about it, and if anything for me it's a good sign showing that they're willing to work with Bethesda/ZeniMax/whoever to get what they want. Whether that leads to an eventual playable character or not who knows, but it's good to see some kind of representation for Fallout in SMASH of all things, crazy.

 

[Matadormon]

Tbh, I guess we have to wait and see if Doomguy is in Smash.

 

[GolisoPower]

This video talks about the CacoMallow leak post-Min Min at 34:16. He makes some interesting points about it at this point.

 

[Koopaul]

While I agree being a western IP with not much of a following in Japan is one of the Slayer steeper hills to overcome, I'd say the historic legacy of the franchise and ties with Nintendo since its debut (shacky as that was with all the censorship back then) does give him at least something in his favor over other western IPs. I also imagine negotiating with Bethesda would be easier than Activision, but that just might be me, as we did get content from a less than reputable company with Konami for that to neccesarily be an issue.

I think it's a big mistake to assume that being well represented on a Nintendo console is in anyone's favor. I say this to the Rayman fans as well. We got characters like Cloud and Joker before we got characters that everyone said was "likely". Being consistently on Nintendo consoles doesn't seem to mean much.

Anyway my point is that we only have five fighters left. Five. It's very likely that most (if not all) of them will be Japanese. I'll bet we'll only get one Western character if we get any. Doom Slayer is up against many many many characters. His biggest hurdle is the competition. It's possible that Nintendo already had a list of characters they want in Smash all lined up even before the Stratton talked to Nintendo.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

To be more accurate, anyone can get in as long as they showed up on Nintendo hardware at least once. Even Fallout got a Mii costume just by having a Switch port of a mobile spin-off.

The actual issue is that there's dozens of characters out there, and only a few spots, depending on how long the staff wants to prolong Ultimate support. Even if we somehow manage to get a third wave of DLC announced by the end of next year, they'd barely have scratched the surface of unincluded characters by then.

However, even if he misses out on this game, Doom Slayer is in no danger of never getting in Smash; the Doom series is still relevant, had a successful comeback and managed to gather up a decent sizable Smash following thanks to the fake FP1 leak from 5chan. He should still be fine by Smash 6.

 

[GolisoPower]

Hmm...say, after playing a little bit of Min Min in Smash Bros, I can't help but think that she has that similar enough feel to how Doom Slayer could potentially play.

Consider the following: she's effectively a zoner, which would usually mean a projectile-heavy character like Samus or Mega Man, right? But her supposed "projectiles" are actually physical attacks, meaning they can't be reflected back at her, and she doesn't suffer the usual weaknesses of a zoner. If anything, I'd say Min Min has an inverse feel compared to an ideal Doom Slayer: she has far-reaching physical attacks to fight from a distance and keep opponents away. He would have projectiles that would instead close the gap and allow him to rush down opponents. But overall, the Venn diagram of rushdown and zoner would absolutely overlap between both characters.

Then let's get to the learning curve: Min Min is especially unique because her Neutral and Side Specials aren't actually Specials, but normals involving her right arm, whereas left arm is tied to the A button. Hell, even one of the two actual specials she has is specifically tied to her right arm and allows her to change ARMS. Now I'm not saying that Doom Slayer would potentially have some unconventional not-Specials like Min Min, but the way it's implemented on her really gets the gears turning on how he could work.

 

[Papa Pope]

Hey everyone, so I only got into Doom recently, but it's been a great time. I finished 2016 not too long ago, and I'm currently playing through Eternal and Doom 1 (though I'm pausing with both admittedly). I've supported Doomguy for a while, but after playing the games, I have a newfound appreciation for this iconic series. His brutal play style would be amazing in Smash, add me to that support list.

 

[GolisoPower]

I'm just gonna come out and say this right now:

FIND ANY MEANINGFUL GLITCHES IN SMASH 8.0.

If our next fighter's gonna be Doom Slayer, we gotta find something glitchy that may possibly hint at him as our next fighter. It could be anything. Samus' arm cannon disappearing. Captain Falcon having a duplicate shooting item in his hand after he throws it. Incineroar glitching out when he KO's someone in stamina mode. I don't care what it is, we gotta find a way to break this goddamn game if it means having a semblance of a hint at our next combatant.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I'm just gonna come out and say this right now:

FIND ANY MEANINGFUL GLITCHES IN SMASH 8.0.

If our next fighter's gonna be Doom Slayer, we gotta find something glitchy that may possibly hint at him as our next fighter. It could be anything. Samus' arm cannon disappearing. Captain Falcon having a duplicate shooting item in his hand after he throws it. Incineroar glitching out when he KO's someone in stamina mode. I don't care what it is, we gotta find a way to break this goddamn game if it means having a semblance of a hint at our next combatant.

Didn't someone report about Ness' eyes glitching before the update arrived?

 

[GolisoPower]

Didn't someone report about Ness' eyes glitching before the update arrived?

The one where his eyes vanished on the victory screen that was discovered in a tournament? I believe that's the one.

 

[Matadormon]

I doubt that Ness’s eyes vanishing means something.

 

[SharkLord]

I'm just gonna come out and say this right now:

FIND ANY MEANINGFUL GLITCHES IN SMASH 8.0.

If our next fighter's gonna be Doom Slayer, we gotta find something glitchy that may possibly hint at him as our next fighter. It could be anything. Samus' arm cannon disappearing. Captain Falcon having a duplicate shooting item in his hand after he throws it. Incineroar glitching out when he KO's someone in stamina mode. I don't care what it is, we gotta find a way to break this goddamn game if it means having a semblance of a hint at our next combatant.

Anyone, has there been any Corrin F-Smash glitches? Because we all know what that would mean.
Anyways, I'd like to be added to the supporter list, please.

 

[Papa Pope]

I doubt that Ness’s eyes vanishing means something.

I've actually heard the argument that the Ness glitch could be pointing to Geno. The glitch only happens in Ness' victory animation, specifically one where he nods his head, and from what I heard, one of Geno's animations in SMRPG is him nodding. I don't know, just food for thought I guess.

 

[SharkLord]

I've actually heard the argument that the Ness glitch could be pointing to Geno. The glitch only happens in Ness' victory animation, specifically one where he nods his head, and from what I heard, one of Geno's animations in SMRPG is him nodding. I don't know, just food for thought I guess.

I've also suggested it could be Reimu, since Touhou designs are fairly close in build to Mother/EarthBound designs, so it could be that she uses Ness as a base and the head is the most major change made during the transition between characters.

EDIT: Still, if it's only the victory animation, then it could just be meaningless. It shouldn't be too hard to animate a nod, right?

 

[EarlTamm]

I've actually heard the argument that the Ness glitch could be pointing to Geno. The glitch only happens in Ness' victory animation, specifically one where he nods his head, and from what I heard, one of Geno's animations in SMRPG is him nodding. I don't know, just food for thought I guess.

Not only is it one of his animations, its the one he does after the party wins battles, so it would be a guaranteed victory animation.

Still, is it true that its only for the victory animations? I thought it could be in the match as well.

 

[Papa Pope]

Not only is it one of his animations, its the one he does after the party wins battles, so it would be a guaranteed victory animation.

Still, is it true that its only for the victory animations? I thought it could be in the match as well.

Personally, I've only seen it in his victory animations, but it could be in matches, I have no idea.

 

[PatPrime]

I've also suggested it could be Reimu, since Touhou designs are fairly close in build to Mother/EarthBound designs, so it could be that she uses Ness as a base and the head is the most major change made during the transition between characters.

EDIT: Still, if it's only the victory animation, then it could just be meaningless. It shouldn't be too hard to animate a nod, right?

I've heard Ness's eyes are a model, which is a unique case since most Smash characters' eyes aren't like that. With that, I could see Geno's eyes also being modeled. I think Geno is pretty likely regardless.

 

[Papa Pope]

I've heard Ness's eyes are a model, which is a unique case since most Smash characters' eyes aren't like that. With that, I could see Geno's eyes also being modeled. I think Geno is pretty likely regardless.

Yeah, I actually think Geno is next, and this is coming from a guy who’s most wanted is Sora.

 

[SharkLord]

I've heard Ness's eyes are a model, which is a unique case since most Smash characters' eyes aren't like that. With that, I could see Geno's eyes also being modeled. I think Geno is pretty likely regardless.

Wait, they're a model? Just for those little dots? That's... Odd, to say the least.

 

[PatPrime]

Wait, they're a model? Just for those little dots? That's... Odd, to say the least.

Ok I checked to make sure I was right... turns out I was wrong. They are textures but they do make me think that Geno's eyes could be made and programmed similarly to Ness's since they both are not normal organic eyes you would see on a normal human or creature.

 

[SharkLord]

Ok I checked to make sure I was right... turns out I was wrong. They are textures but they do make me think that Geno's eyes could be made and programmed similarly to Ness's since they both are not normal organic eyes you would see on a normal human or creature.

...I dunno man. That seems like a really trivial thing that could probably be accomplished easier with Mega Man's eyes. An if it's only in the one victory animation...
Maybe we're looking to deep into this. Some glitches turn out to be related to new characters, but I don't think all of them are. It's fun to speculate, but it could just be meaningless.

 

[PatPrime]

...I dunno man. That seems like a really trivial thing that could probably be accomplished easier with Mega Man's eyes. An if it's only in the one victory animation...
Maybe we're looking to deep into this. Some glitches turn out to be related to new characters, but I don't think all of them are. It's fun to speculate, but it could just be meaningless.

Yeah I'm not really a person that knows this stuff. These were just my assumptions. Regardless, Geno seems likely to me and while that Vault Boy costume makes me doubt Doomguy's chances a little bit, I still REALLY want him to get in Smash.