At Smash's Gate - The Doom Marine/Doomguy/Doom Slayer Thread

[Michael the Spikester]

Really? Dovahkiin? I have nary seen a pint of compelling evidence for his inclusion beyond a single Switch port.

Sakurai is known for surprising us as he had withand Terry. Not out of the question to see such a sleeper pick/dark horse pick as those three were.

 

[PublicServant]

Sakurai is known for surprising us as he had withand Terry. Not out of the question to see such a sleeper pick/dark horse pick as those three were.

People still think that the Doom Slayer is an impossibility. His inclusion would probably elicit an equal - nay - an overwhelming reaction from the baying crowds.
IMO people are only wanting Dovahkiin as a sort of counterpick to Doom Slayer supporters, continuing to cling to outdated and disproven "rules" or simply wishing for his non-inclusion through petty/spiteful motives.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

People still think that the Doom Slayer is an impossibility. His inclusion would probably elicit an equal - nay - an overwhelming reaction from the baying crowds.

I mean afterandnothing is impossible at this point anymore tbh. If Sakurai wants it he'll get it. But fair point there about Dovahkiin. I took him as being an underrated popular pick given I've seen him mentioned a few times across the Smash community.

 

[Holphino]

-Capcom rep (Amaterasu, Dante, Phoenix Wright, Resident Evil rep)
-Crash Bandicoot
-Dovahkiin
-Namco rep (Agumon, Dark Souls rep, KOS-MOS, Lloyd Irving); Don't see Heihachi at this point in this pass given Terry
-Ryu Hayabusa

Ryu Hayabusa and Crash make the most sense to me. Along with Doomguy, those characters are the strongest contenders to be #5. At least that's how I see it, unless Nintendo picks a slept on character for #5, just like they did with Terry for #4.

 

[SpectreJordan]

Really? Dovahkiin? I have ne're seen a pint of compelling evidence for his inclusion beyond a single Switch port.

Skyrim is one of the best selling & most beloved games of all-time. As well as being one of the most influential games of this decade, even influencing Zelda. There’s also the fact that Sakurai clearly loves RPGs; I wouldn’t be surprised if one of the first western characters he included was a WRPG character. I think it’s fair to say that Dovahkiin has a shot.

I still think that the Slayer has a better shot, but I won’t be too shocked if they go with Dovahkiin first.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

And again Sakurai likes to surprise us as I said above. Dovahkiin definitely seems like someone we might be sleeping on. Same with Chosen Undead in terms of Namco reps.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

IMO people are only wanting Dovahkiin as a sort of counterpick to Doom Slayer supporters, continuing to cling to outdated and disproven "rules" or simply wishing for his non-inclusion through petty/spiteful motives.

While I do believe that Doom Slayer wouldn't be nearly as viable to the Japanese market (in reference to the "rules"), the reason I want Dovahkiin in the game is because I love the Elder Scrolls, simple as that,

And again Sakurai likes to surprise us as I said above. Dovahkiin definitely seems like someone we might be sleeping on. Same with Chosen Undead in terms of Namco reps.

Prince of All Cosmos as well. A lot of great Namco picks are slept on.

 

[Holphino]

While I do believe that Doom Slayer wouldn't be nearly as viable to the Japanese market (in reference to the "rules"), the reason I want Dovahkiin in the game is because I love the Elder Scrolls, simple as that,




Prince of All Cosmos as well. A lot of great Namco picks are slept on.

Well at least you want him in the game for the right reasons, and not just because you don't want Doomguy in.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I really don't like the idea of the Dovahkiin being a fighter in Smash Bros because he'd look really out of place compared to the rest of the cast due to the realistic look to him in Skyrim, he'd be another Sword user that uses magic much like Hero (If we take promotional artwork into account) and in general he wouldn't bring much new to the table that the Hero hasn't already brought.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

I really don't like the idea of the Dovahkiin being a fighter in Smash Bros because he'd look really out of place compared to the rest of the cast due to the realistic look to him in Skyrim, he'd be another Sword user that uses magic much like Hero (If we take promotional artwork into account) and in general he wouldn't bring much new to the table that the Hero hasn't already brought.

I'm sure they could nix most of the magic in favor of his shouts, which are much more distinct. Plus I've seen some moveset concepts that incorporate the game's different weapon types into his attacks. Sword for some attacks, others use maces or axes or warhammers. His default art has him with a sword but the other weapon types (hell, they could even give him a crossbow for some moves since the Dawnguard expansion pack reintroduced them to the series) could easily be incorporated and I could see Sakurai getting creative.

Furthermore we already do have realistic characters such as Snake, and Doom Slayer himself also looks very realistic.

 

[TerminatorLOL]

I would only accept the Dovahkiin if he was an Argonian werewolf necromancer like in my game.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I'm sure they could nix most of the magic in favor of his shouts, which are much more distinct. Plus I've seen some moveset concepts that incorporate the game's different weapon types into his attacks. Sword for some attacks, others use maces or axes or warhammers. His default art has him with a sword but the other weapon types (hell, they could even give him a crossbow for some moves since the Dawnguard expansion pack reintroduced them to the series) could easily be incorporated and I could see Sakurai getting creative.

Furthermore we already do have realistic characters such as Snake, and Doom Slayer himself also looks very realistic.

He could and can do all of those things but I'm 100% sure we'll just see the Dovahkiin fight using a sword and shield along with some Magic attacks and there is no reason for him to use anything else. I could be wrong mind you but I do see a pattern with characters that have customisation options.

With the Fire Emblem characters you can give them any kind of job class with different kinds of weapons and Smash only to use their lord classes, with Cloud he can use a variety of different Buster Swords but he uses the original one that he is given at the start of the game. Hell even Breath of the Wild Link can use all types of different weapons from hammers, maces, axes, lances, spears and can ride a motorcycle but Sakurai still chooses the tried and true Master Sword and Hylian Shield combo along with a Bow and Arrow, Boomerang and Bombs that he has been using since Ocarina of Time. The Dovahkiin will be no different.

As for realism with Doom Guy and Snake, I won't deny that they do have a level of realism to them but not to the same level as the Dovahkiin. Skyrim is like real life if it had Dragons and Magic spells and while that would never happen in real life, it's setting in a medieval era on earth, with familiar objects to our world that gives it some sort of credibility to it which is something I can't say for the world of Doom. Doom takes place on mars and is futuristic which is something that hasn't happened yet and we can't know for sure if what we create will look like the world in Doom.

While the world of Metal Gear does take place in our world, it has the Kojima charm to it that reminds you that you're playing a video game like the Psychomantis boss fight where you have to plug in your controller to the second port, that infamous Fission Mailed thing from the 2nd game, waiting for The end to die in Snake Eater and it also has some very iconic sounds like the alert and the sound that plays when you recover your health.

 

[Looma]

Sign of Evil and Suspense are getting shafted it seems smh

Prince of All Cosmos as well. A lot of great Namco picks are slept on.

Can't forget Klonoa!

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

Skyrim is like real life if it had Dragons and Magic spells and while that would never happen in real life, it's setting in a medieval era on earth, with familiar objects to our world.

It takes place place on a fictional continent on a fictional planet, with fictional dieties and laws of reality, and is no different in that regard than Fire Emblem, aside from not being more cartoony.

A futuristic Mars that takes place in our universe is actually a lot more realistic than that.

Also why exactly would Sakurai change Link to that kind of degree? A character that's had his moveset since the very beginning. That would alienate a lot of people unless BoTW Link ended up being a different character. Dovahkiin is a fresh character and Sakurai has the freedom to do whatever he wants.

 

[Holphino]

It takes place place on a fictional continent on a fictional planet, with fictional dieties and laws of reality, and is no different in that regard than Fire Emblem, aside from not being more cartoony.

A futuristic Mars that takes place in our universe is actually a lot more realistic than that.

Also why exactly would Sakurai change Link to that kind of degree? A character that's had his moveset since the very beginning. That would alienate a lot of people unless BoTW Link ended up being a different character. Dovahkiin is a fresh character and Sakurai has the freedom to do whatever he wants.

I would say both Doomguy and Dovakiin are both realistic in their own ways, but also VERY cartoonish in their own ways(Doomguy especially). Whether whose more realistic than the other probably isn't a factor when it comes to Smash.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

I would say both Doomguy and Dovakiin are both realistic in their own ways, but also VERY cartoonish in their own ways(Doomguy especially). Whether whose more realistic than the other probably isn't a factor when it comes to Smash.

If you've seen Oblivion, it gets even better xD

But yeah, I agree that both characters (and Snake) are realistic, I was just refuting Trapezium's argument.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

It takes place place on a fictional continent on a fictional planet, with fictional dieties and laws of reality, and is no different in that regard than Fire Emblem, aside from not being more cartoony.

A futuristic Mars that takes place in our universe is actually a lot more realistic than that.

Also why exactly would Sakurai change Link to that kind of degree? A character that's had his moveset since the very beginning. That would alienate a lot of people unless BoTW Link ended up being a different character. Dovahkiin is a fresh character and Sakurai has the freedom to do whatever he wants.

It looks like earth, it has animals like earth, it has greenery like earth, it has mountains like earth and it's medieval setting looks like it comes from earth. The only difference is that it includes creatures from folklore and magic. A name change doesn't change much.

Regardless the point is it still looks like real life if it had dragons and magic which is why I think the Dovahkiin would look out of place in Smash Ultimate. While the Doom Games has some realism to it, they use it to make the game look presentable and not for realism sake like Skyrim does.

As for Link, I mean we already have two other links, one of them that is supposed to play like the Melee - Smash 4 Adult Link so there you go.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

It looks like earth, it has animals like earth, it has greenery like earth, it has mountains like earth and it's medieval setting looks like it comes from earth. The only difference is that it includes creatures from folklore and magic. A name change doesn't change much.

So does Fire Emblem, and so does The Legend of Zelda.

Plus I doubt Earth has Elves, Orcs, and Lizard or Cat people either. and let's not even get started on Morrowind.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

So does Fire Emblem, and so does The Legend of Zelda.

Plus I doubt Earth has Elves, Orcs, and Lizard or Cat people either. and let's not even get started on Morrowind.

Yeah but they're not realistic like Skyrim's setting is. With Fire Emblem and Legend of Zelda they don't have realistic graphics to imagine it as real life but with Dragons, mythical creatures and Magic like Skyrim does. The realistic look of Skyrim is what would make it look out of place in Smash Bros.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

>the realistic card is pulled again
I don't see why this nonsense keeps going on when even was seen as too realistic for Smash.

After Brawl, Smash has had a "cartoony" filter applied to some characters' design aspects so that they would fit in among the others. This isn't like PSASBR pretty much yanking the characters from their games as is with mixed results.

You want realistic, there's Call of Duty. Well, most of it.

Prince of All Cosmos as well. A lot of great Namco picks are slept on.

Yeah, seriously, every Bamco series that's not Tekken/SC/Tales isn't given the time of day by most Western fans. It doesn't help that we've yet to get anyone past for unknown reasons.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

Yeah, seriously, every Bamco series that's not Tekken/SC/Tales isn't given the time of day by most Western fans. It doesn't help that we've yet to get anyone past for unknown reasons.

Agreed! and I'm surprised Namco's being so conservative with its character additions. One would think it'd be super easy to add a bunch, since they're from the company that's helping develop the game.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Agreed! and I'm surprised Namco's being so conservative with its character additions. One would think it'd be super easy to add a bunch, since they're from the company that's helping develop the game.

Furthermore, Pac was added mainly since he was a personal request by Miyamoto, so that really doesn't help much. And it's now the second time we have a FF character joining in a Bamco game, since Geese got into Tekken 7.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

This is all my opinion so I say I don't get how Metal Gear could be seen as too realistic. It had video game sounds and video game features like floating ammo boxes that jitter if you're full on ammo or don't have the weapon yet, rations that make a video game sound when you consume one and large exclamations marks on top of people's heads if they spot you. I can't say for certain that MGS 4 & 5 still follow the tropes but the Snake in Smash Bros is based more on the MGS 1 Snake.

In Skyrim, everything in the game is handled in a realistic manner akin to real life. Other than the mythical creatures and Magic in the game, the game is similar to what life would be like in the medieval era which brings me to my point that the Dovahkiin would look out of place in Smash Bros. Even with the games following a set art direction to make sure characters blend in with each other, I just can't imagine that the Dovahkiin would look right since he would look too cartoony compared to how he looks in Skyrim. I'd rather take a Mii costume of his armour since I also can't imagine that he'd bring anything new to the table that Hero, Simon and Link combined haven't already done.

 

[Looma]

Honestly, aren't realistic characters like Ryu and Snake duking it out with the likes of Wario and Pac-Man part of the fun of Smash? I really don't understand the opposition to realistic looking characters.

I mean come on, get a load of the legendary vampire hunter Simon Belmont fighting a freakin cartoon bear and his sassy sidekick on the Nintendogs stage. Now THAT'S funny. Smash is pretty much the ONLY GAME where this clash works as well as it does.

 

[PublicServant]

I personally feel that the biggest problem with having Dovahkiin as a fighter is you'd be presenting a drastically narrow scope of the series.

As an RPG, ES has such a ridiculous breadth of customization options, weapons, equipment and playstyles that it'd be impossible to nail down complete representation of anything besides "Nord Swordsman with wyvern shouts". Heck, even the number of playable races in Skyrim eclipses the number of alt fighter slots - No matter what way you spin it, someone is going to complain about not being able to play as an Imperial or Bosmer (and god forbid you to bring gender into the mix; I can already hear the cries of "I wanted X race to be male/female," (if they decide on a 50/50 split) or "why are they all male?")

The main point of contention I see, however, is the representative elements of his moveset. As stipulated above, current RPG characters such as Link, the FE fighters and Hero have a number of "bottlenecks" which allow them to still be highly representative of their characters despite Smash's limited move options (Hero having a move that brings up a random assortment of spells, Link's iconic arsenal changing very little between games, FE characters using their default Lord classes, etc.). When it comes to Dovahkiin, however, no such creativity restraint or bottleneck exists that can allow him to satisfy the majority of the ES community (and yes, you can argue till the cows come home that they should be happy with the Dragonborn's inclusion regardless, but that's never going to happen on the internet, at least in a widespread fashion).

What we'll most likely end up with is a Western Swordsman character who throws in an axe or dual-wielded swords into a couple of moves, has one or two ranged attacks in the form of either a cross/longbow or any number of random projectile staves/spells, and a whole collection of moves that other fighters can perform (seriously though, Unrelenting Force would more or less be Mario's FLUDD with a different visual effect), except they can be charged up and the Dragonborn shouts some kind of meme phrase prior to launching the attack. This severely de-values the variety of playstyles that are on offer in Skyrim:

• Why can't I play as my pickpocketing member of the Thieves Guild who dumped all their skill points into sneaking, speech and one-handed daggers?
• Why do I have to use Dragonbane as my primary weapon? I wanted to use Wabbajack.
• Why can't I summon any Creatures/Dragons/Undead monsters to my aid? There are plenty of shouts and magic-related skills/weapons that can do this, so there's no excuse as to why this isn't the case.
• Why is there only stuff from Skyrim in here? I wanted him to wield weapons/abilities from Oblivion/Morrowind!

I believe that TerminatorLOL put it best:

I would only accept the Dovahkiin if he was an Argonian werewolf necromancer like in my game.

Sure, the above statement was obviously made in jest, but there will no doubt be an endless amount of people decrying the Dragonborn's inclusion for the sole reason that it didn't turn out exactly/similarly to how they personally play the game. Contrast with the overwhelming majority of the Smash roster (Doom Slayer included), whose abilities are generally narrow enough in scope that their movesets can adequately portray how they play within their home series.

There's also the slight fact that the Dragonborn is from a game that, while infamous for the fact that Bethesda have been re-releasing it on enough platforms to rival Resident Evil 4, the game and character itself are due to be overtaken by whoever is to become the next Protagonist in Elder Scrolls 6. Sure, Dovahkiin could simply be a marketing ploy by Bethesda to promote ES6 on Switch, but the Slayer already has the Dragonborn beat in that department by miles (in that it wouldn't make sense to promote your next game by using the main character from the previous game that will likely have little to no bearing on said next game).

 

[PublicServant]

On a different note, this is absolute torture:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[SpectreJordan]

I don’t think the realistic argument makes too much sense with Dovahkiin. His/her face will be covered by the helmet, so the most realistic part of that character’s design won’t be seen in Smash.

 

[TindalosKeeper]

On a different note, this is absolute torture:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Define torture? I don't get it... Unless the game is failing again?

 

[GolisoPower]

Define torture? I don't get it... Unless the game is failing again?

Maybe it's the Doom 25th Anniversary Edition Pro Controller?

 

[Smashhacker]

Define torture? I don't get it... Unless the game is failing again?

They missed the actual Doom 2 release date 10 days too early.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Somebody in a group chat said the Samus and Ridley shot from the K.Rool/Banjo reveal trailer looks like the Doom II cover art and I cant unsee it pic.twitter.com/RPStw8NTtT

— Cabbit 🍉 (@UltimateViolet) September 30, 2019

Can’t unsee now. Meta Ridley has to represent Cyberdemon in a spirit battle or something if Doomguy gets in. Something like metal Bowser could do the trick too I suppose but eh.

 

[TindalosKeeper]

Somebody in a group chat said the Samus and Ridley shot from the K.Rool/Banjo reveal trailer looks like the Doom II cover art and I cant unsee it pic.twitter.com/RPStw8NTtT

— Cabbit 🍉 (@UltimateViolet) September 30, 2019

Can’t unsee now. Meta Ridley has to represent Cyberdemon in a spirit battle or something if Doomguy gets in. Something like metal Bowser could do the trick too I suppose but eh.

Pretty coincidental (as usual)... Wouldn't hold my breath too...

See, this is very infuriating... So many coincidences for us, them at the reveal, some other character, never mentioned before or heavily requested, gets the invite, lmao.

The 5th character is still a big mystery, with no legit leaks yet... Hoping they learned their lesson with that SNK copyright leak.

If not, expect a sudden change in Challenger Pack 5's copyright, from Nintendo UK page.

 

[PublicServant]

Define torture? I don't get it... Unless the game is failing again?

I meant in how they're using the Switch of all platforms (Not even an old CRT PC) to advertise Doom 2's 25th anniversary.

They're teasing us and it's torturous to behold and speculate (but in a good way? I dunno)

 

[Ben Holt]

Bethesda is **** teasing us with how closely they are associating Doom with Switch.
Hell, once Doom 64 comes out, we'll have the entire Doom series on Switch (unless you count ports as separate games altogether).
I know it's unlikely, but imagine if SNES Doom comes to SNES Online. Yea, it's completely obsolete, but the soundtrack is a bit more.... epic?

 

[Evil Trapezium]

On a different note, this is absolute torture:

Happy 25th birthday to DOOM II, first released on September 30, 1994. pic.twitter.com/RuOkVawIUD

— DOOM (@DOOM) September 30, 2019

Mr. Krabs is getting all sweaty again.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Can’t unsee now. Meta Ridley has to represent Cyberdemon in a spirit battle or something if Doomguy gets in. Something like metal Bowser could do the trick too I suppose but eh.

Remember the Rathalos boss fight screenshot incident? Let's not see hints where there aren't any.

 

[Holphino]

Remember the Rathalos boss fight screenshot incident? Let's not see hints where there aren't any.

The tweet might not be a hint, but it is certainly interesting with how much they're highlighting Nintendo in that tweet. It's almost like they want you to think of Nintendo when you hear Doom.

 

[TindalosKeeper]

I meant in how they're using the Switch of all platforms (Not even an old CRT PC) to advertise Doom 2's 25th anniversary.

They're teasing us and it's torturous to behold and speculate (but in a good way? I dunno)

Oh... How could I be this blind?

But yet again, coincidence. Doom II's recent port is the Switch, so obviously they want the recent port to gain sales.

Yeah, I guess I understand why is it torture. I am imagining some outrage when all of these coincidences were nothing, all this time (Maybe until the next separate DLC's come forth).

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Remember the Rathalos boss fight screenshot incident? Let's not see hints where there aren't any.

To be fair, Isaac was revealed to be in the game so it was still a hint. This however is probably a coincidence whether or not Doom Guy gets in.

 

[PublicServant]

Oh... How could I be this blind?

But yet again, coincidence. Doom II's recent port is the Switch, so obviously they want the recent port to gain sales.

Yeah, I guess I understand why is it torture. I am imagining some outrage when all of these coincidences were nothing, all this time (Maybe until the next separate DLC's come forth).

But the Switch port for Doom 2 was released simultaneously alongside the Xbox and PlayStation ports...