At Smash's Gate - The Doom Marine/Doomguy/Doom Slayer Thread

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So, it got to my attention that a Doom fan wanting Doom Slayer for Smash got screencapped and posted on 4chan for harassment purposes...
The thread blew up as well.
I don't really visit 4chan too often (It's plagued with fake leaks and NSFW imagery, for Smash related stuff).
But seriously... This is a new low... And even further lower by posting the kid's Twitter account...
It's absolutely fine to defend your dream character, so I see no reason why the kid deserved to be a target...
Luckily, there were Doom fans to back up the poor kid with their own opinions/facts.

http://boards.4channel.org/v/thread/479095241

(You don't have to visit if it makes you feel unsafe...)
 
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Well, that was a jolly way to celebrate this thread's 50th Page
Sorry, it seemed today was a slow day in the forum, so might as well break the ice a bit...
I seriously wasn't planning on hijacking the 50th page.
I wouldn't post the usual "Doomguy can't be in Smash" responses from people, since they are just trivial and easily ignored
This one is a special case I wanted to post (it was recently and it was linked by someone... I even forgot where I got it, lol), on how someone thought it was a good idea to post someone's opinion on a wanted character thas is not your character, as harassment. On 4chan. With a identifiable Twitter account.
 

PublicServant

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Sorry, it seemed today was a slow day in the forum, so might as well break the ice a bit...
I seriously wasn't planning on hijacking the 50th page.
I wouldn't post the usual "Doomguy can't be in Smash" responses from people, since they are just trivial and easily ignored
This one is a special case I wanted to post (it was recently and it was linked by someone... I even forgot where I got it, lol), on how someone thought it was a good idea to post someone's opinion on a wanted character thas is not your character, as harassment. On 4chan. With a identifiable Twitter account.
When it comes to 4chan, this would only be a specific subset of fools decrying a fan hoping that his most wanted will come to fruition. I've seen plenty more channers vouching for the Doomguy's inclusion (even in that same thread, no less).
 
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So I decided to look through this stream for Doom Eternal's E3 demo in Bethesda France, and they showed this:
(At 35:43)

Now I don't know what it is. Could be a challenge room like the Rune Trials from Doom 2016, could be something else. I'm sure they say what it is, but I know very little French, so I don't know whether or not that's the case.
 
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You know... I was thinking... Do the new additions to Doom Eternal were intentional to create a better moveset for the Doom Slayer in Smash?
The next features are my own opinion:

1- Upgraded Thruster Boots: They got 2 charges. Pretty sure the double jump doesn't count, but it could be made in Smash to either:
A-Use a Double Jump and a Forward/Backward Thrust.
B-Sacrifice a Double Jump for two Forward/Backward Thrusts.
They got an excuse for him having recovery here, instead of just a Double Jump.

2- Extra lives: Pretty much stocks for Smash. Self-explanatory.

3- Flamethrower: DoT attack, maybe short range. Since Smash has no Armor system, it could be replaced by ammo drops instead, assuming Doom Slayer's gimmick is a weapon wheel, similar to Hero's Spell system, except no RNG selection for Doom Slayer as he can attack with the guns as long as he has the ammo. No ammo, no attack, therefore, Doom Slayer is defenseless until he changes to another gun.

4- Grenade: AoE attack, forward-only attack. Self-explanatory. Like Banjo's Egg Grenade.

5- Doom Slayer Grunts: Another excuse to have some voicelines for the Doom Slayer whenever damaged. Highest grunt intensity on elimination. One example of a high pain grunt is a Cacodemon Bite in that french trailer. You can actually hear Doom Slayer's ****ing screaming his lungs out from the bite.
(Reference: https://youtu.be/mIHkRIRJArU?t=1467... Guy gets bit after hooking the Cacodemon)

6- The BFG10K: Since the Final Smash might require an animated one, this one could be used. YET another excuse for the Doom Slayer to have a good Final Smash, involving the biggest BFG ever in the series. It might go like this:

Doom Slayer might send a Syphon Grenade to the target/targets... Given how it looks like a trapping dome, the victims might be trapped... Doom Slayer goes inside a portal and goes directly to the panel control of the BFG10K, presses some buttons and instead of using an energy ball, he launches himself, just like in Doom Eternal... The animation would be much faster, and might take like say, 5-10 seconds? Maybe 12-15, if pushing it. Anyways, Doom Slayer strikes the targets, and might trigger a green AoE mist on impact, to those who weren't affected by the Final Smash... The mist being the remnant of the BFG blast... Low to Mid Damage.

7- Meat Hook Super Shotgun: Given that is the signature gun of the Doom Slayer, he might carry this one by default, unless ammo runs out. Could be used as long-range grab or recovery on ledges.

8- Crucible Sword: Possibly a response to the Chainsaw being too violent for Smash... Can be used effectively for Smash attacks.

And well, that's pretty much it... If I have any other ideas, or someone can speculate more, feel free to do so, and I can add it here with an opinion of my own :)

Yes, I can also wishful think, haha!

Edit: Added "Crucible Sword".
 
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3- Flamethrower: DoT attack, maybe short range. Since Smash has no Armor system, it could be replaced by ammo drops instead, assuming Doom Slayer's gimmick is a weapon wheel, similar to Hero's Spell system, except no RNG selection for Doom Slayer as he can attack with the guns as long as he has the ammo. No ammo, no attack, therefore, Doom Slayer is defenseless until he changes to another gun.
In that regard, maybe the flamethrower could function like this:

Doom Slayer sets the opponent on fire. Every attack landed gives him one-hit super armor against an attack that deals 2% damage, and it stacks with each hit. So land a high-enough Combo before launching, and you could hypothetically get one-hit super armor against an attack that deals up to 32% damage. Meaning he could tank Ganondorf’s Doriyah with no problem, but something like Roy’s Flare Blade will break through it easily.
 
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In that regard, maybe the flamethrower could function like this:

Doom Slayer sets the opponent on fire. Every attack landed gives him one-hit super armor against an attack that deals 2% damage, and it stacks with each hit. So land a high-enough Combo before launching, and you could hypothetically get one-hit super armor against an attack that deals up to 32% damage. Meaning he could tank Ganondorf’s Doriyah with no problem, but something like Roy’s Flare Blade will break through it easily.
A little bit too OP if Doom Slayer can infinitely gain a super armor stack for every successful Flamethrower attack... Recovering some ammo per X% damage would be better, in my opinion.
 
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A little bit too OP if Doom Slayer can infinitely gain a super armor stack for every successful Flamethrower attack... Recovering some ammo per X% damage would be better, in my opinion.
I guess what I should've also said was that the fire would be temporary and that only attacks outside the flamethrower would give you the armor. Not to mention, like in Doom Eternal, the flamethrower would be on cooldown to make it balanced. But your ammo idea's cool too.
 

PublicServant

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You know... I was thinking... Do the new additions to Doom Eternal were intentional to create a better moveset for the Doom Slayer in Smash?
The next features are my own opinion:

1- Upgraded Thruster Boots: They got 2 charges. Pretty sure the double jump doesn't count, but it could be made in Smash to either:
A-Use a Double Jump and a Forward/Backward Thrust.
B-Sacrifice a Double Jump for two Forward/Backward Thrusts.
They got an excuse for him having recovery here, instead of just a Double Jump.

2- Extra lives: Pretty much stocks for Smash. Self-explanatory.

3- Flamethrower: DoT attack, maybe short range. Since Smash has no Armor system, it could be replaced by ammo drops instead, assuming Doom Slayer's gimmick is a weapon wheel, similar to Hero's Spell system, except no RNG selection for Doom Slayer as he can attack with the guns as long as he has the ammo. No ammo, no attack, therefore, Doom Slayer is defenseless until he changes to another gun.

4- Grenade: AoE attack, forward-only attack. Self-explanatory. Like Banjo's Egg Grenade.

5- Doom Slayer Grunts: Another excuse to have some voicelines for the Doom Slayer whenever damaged. Highest grunt intensity on elimination. One example of a high pain grunt is a Cacodemon Bite in that french trailer. You can actually hear Doom Slayer's ****ing screaming his lungs out from the bite.
(Reference: https://youtu.be/mIHkRIRJArU?t=1467... Guy gets bit after hooking the Cacodemon)

6- The BFG10K: Since the Final Smash might require an animated one, this one could be used. YET another excuse for the Doom Slayer to have a good Final Smash, involving the biggest BFG ever in the series. It might go like this:

Doom Slayer might send a Syphon Grenade to the target/targets... Given how it looks like a trapping dome, the victims might be trapped... Doom Slayer goes inside a portal and goes directly to the panel control of the BFG10K, presses some buttons and instead of using an energy ball, he launches himself, just like in Doom Eternal... The animation would be much faster, and might take like say, 5-10 seconds? Maybe 12-15, if pushing it. Anyways, Doom Slayer strikes the targets, and might trigger a green AoE mist on impact, to those who weren't affected by the Final Smash... The mist being the remnant of the BFG blast... Low to Mid Damage.

7- Meat Hook Super Shotgun: Given that is the signature gun of the Doom Slayer, he might carry this one by default, unless ammo runs out. Could be used as long-range grab or recovery on ledges.

And well, that's pretty much it... If I have any other ideas, or someone can speculate more, feel free to do so, and I can add it here with an opinion of my own :)

Yes, I can also wishful think, haha!
1. I'd imagine those dashes would function more so in his dodges as opposed to being his main recovery move; rocket jumping would make for the perfect up-special recovery option (which, thanks to the existence of the Remote Detonation mod, can work in midair just as well on the ground).

3. You do know that the Chainsaw is the thing that's used to replenish your ammo and not the Flamethrower, right? It's been this way since Doom 2016; why change it to the Flamethrower out-of-the-blue for Smash?

6. What's wrong with using the arguably more iconic BFG9K? The 10K is cool and all, but it doesn't exactly carry the same 25-year legacy as it's little brother.

7. Interesting idea. Only conundrum with the Meathook is that it can only attach itself to living creatures and not the scenery. It'd still make for an interesting anti-edgeguard tool by attaching to such an aggressor while you're in midair, reeling into them and following up with an SSG blast, but good luck of you haven't got anyone nearby to attach to.
 
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You know... I was thinking... Do the new additions to Doom Eternal were intentional to create a better moveset for the Doom Slayer in Smash?
Funnily enough, I was thinking about that too. The amount of things that the Doom Slayer has in Doom Eternal compared to Doom 2016 does raise an eyebrow from me but I'm sure it's just for Doom Eternal itself. There is no way that a game would add so much more to a character just to make them viable to be included in Smash Bros.
 
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1. I'd imagine those dashes would function more so in his dodges as opposed to being his main recovery move; rocket jumping would make for the perfect up-special recovery option (which, thanks to the existence of the Remote Detonation mod, can work in midair just as well on the ground).

3. You do know that the Chainsaw is the thing that's used to replenish your ammo and not the Flamethrower, right? It's been this way since Doom 2016; why change it to the Flamethrower out-of-the-blue for Smash?

6. What's wrong with using the arguably more iconic BFG9K? The 10K is cool and all, but it doesn't exactly carry the same 25-year legacy as it's little brother.

7. Interesting idea. Only conundrum with the Meathook is that it can only attach itself to living creatures and not the scenery. It'd still make for an interesting anti-edgeguard tool by attaching to such an aggressor while you're in midair, reeling into them and following up with an SSG blast, but good luck of you haven't got anyone nearby to attach to.
I'll only argue on the numbers I seem necessary. The rest of the numbers are legitimate arguments I won't argue about, since you got a point.

3- Not sure how they can treat the Chainsaw for the game, given the fact people is vocal with the inclusion of such gory tool (Ahem... Corrin's serrated sword)... I'm aware that the Chainsaw is the one replenishing ammo, but see my statement above... It might get toned down... They could either cut it altogether in favor of the Crucible Sword, or implement ammo replenish with a more family-friendly element like fire, therefore, ammo from the Flamethrower.

Actually, now that I mention the Crucible Sword, I'll add it to the list.

6- Final Smashes are iconic in that they show us the character beyond their potential. A prime example is Mewtwo transforming into his Mega-Evolution.

Having the BFG10k as the Final Smash and making Doom Slayer throw himself with the power of the Smash Core within his body would be a devastating blow to those unfortunate to be in it...

Another Final Smash idea would be using all BFG models... From Doom 1, Doom 64, to Doom 3... First, it fires the BFG from Doom 1, having Doom 1's HUD as well... Then it changes to Doom 64's BFG and HUD, firing a round... Then it ends with Doom 3's BFG model and HUD, firing another round... Might be stretching a bit, but they could use Doom 2016 modern model as well.
 
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Oh. I thought you were talking about the Quake version of the BFG, considering that said weapon is also called the BFG10K.
Heh, never mentioned Quake, though. I'm very aware of that version, too :p

Funnily enough, I was thinking about that too. The amount of things that the Doom Slayer has in Doom Eternal compared to Doom 2016 does raise an eyebrow from me but I'm sure it's just for Doom Eternal itself. There is no way that a game would add so much more to a character just to make them viable to be included in Smash Bros.
Yeah, it could just be for Eternal, but it gives tons of more ideas for Doom Slayer as a character in Smash, that is super coincidental as well.
 
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I wonder how the demons would be handled in a Doom stage, whether it’s the Hangar or the Tower of Babel or even the Mars Core from Eternal. They could be destructible like Public’s concept, they could just be background demons that relish the ensuing fight like the Phantom Thieves on Mementos. Regardless, I just wanna see demons in the background.
 
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RileyXY1

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You know... I was thinking... Do the new additions to Doom Eternal were intentional to create a better moveset for the Doom Slayer in Smash?
The next features are my own opinion:

1- Upgraded Thruster Boots: They got 2 charges. Pretty sure the double jump doesn't count, but it could be made in Smash to either:
A-Use a Double Jump and a Forward/Backward Thrust.
B-Sacrifice a Double Jump for two Forward/Backward Thrusts.
They got an excuse for him having recovery here, instead of just a Double Jump.

2- Extra lives: Pretty much stocks for Smash. Self-explanatory.

3- Flamethrower: DoT attack, maybe short range. Since Smash has no Armor system, it could be replaced by ammo drops instead, assuming Doom Slayer's gimmick is a weapon wheel, similar to Hero's Spell system, except no RNG selection for Doom Slayer as he can attack with the guns as long as he has the ammo. No ammo, no attack, therefore, Doom Slayer is defenseless until he changes to another gun.

4- Grenade: AoE attack, forward-only attack. Self-explanatory. Like Banjo's Egg Grenade.

5- Doom Slayer Grunts: Another excuse to have some voicelines for the Doom Slayer whenever damaged. Highest grunt intensity on elimination. One example of a high pain grunt is a Cacodemon Bite in that french trailer. You can actually hear Doom Slayer's ****ing screaming his lungs out from the bite.
(Reference: https://youtu.be/mIHkRIRJArU?t=1467... Guy gets bit after hooking the Cacodemon)

6- The BFG10K: Since the Final Smash might require an animated one, this one could be used. YET another excuse for the Doom Slayer to have a good Final Smash, involving the biggest BFG ever in the series. It might go like this:

Doom Slayer might send a Syphon Grenade to the target/targets... Given how it looks like a trapping dome, the victims might be trapped... Doom Slayer goes inside a portal and goes directly to the panel control of the BFG10K, presses some buttons and instead of using an energy ball, he launches himself, just like in Doom Eternal... The animation would be much faster, and might take like say, 5-10 seconds? Maybe 12-15, if pushing it. Anyways, Doom Slayer strikes the targets, and might trigger a green AoE mist on impact, to those who weren't affected by the Final Smash... The mist being the remnant of the BFG blast... Low to Mid Damage.

7- Meat Hook Super Shotgun: Given that is the signature gun of the Doom Slayer, he might carry this one by default, unless ammo runs out. Could be used as long-range grab or recovery on ledges.

8- Crucible Sword: Possibly a response to the Chainsaw being too violent for Smash... Can be used effectively for Smash attacks.

And well, that's pretty much it... If I have any other ideas, or someone can speculate more, feel free to do so, and I can add it here with an opinion of my own :)

Yes, I can also wishful think, haha!

Edit: Added "Crucible Sword".
Corrin uses a chainsaw, so it's most likely perfectly fine for Doomguy to use one. As long as it doesn't cause organs or blood to spill out that is.
 
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Holphino

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You know, throughout the years I always heard that Snake couldn't use his guns because it'd raise the ESRB rating. So I did some digging, and I couldn't find any official source that explicitly states this, not from Sakurai nor Nintendo. Maybe i'm dumb or just didn't look in the right places(which is very possible), so if anyone of you could find a source on that i'd appreciate it. I also found out that Shadow The Hedgehog(the game, not the character)has a ESRB rating of E+ just like Super Smash Bros Ultimate does. This is notable because that game uses realistic guns that happen to fire real bullets, so it's not a Joker situation with that game. So all of that tells me, that the whole "Doomguy can't get in because he uses real guns" argument is dead, at least in my opinion. It wasn't a very good argument to begin with anyway.
 
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You know, throughout the years I always heard that Snake couldn't use his guns because it'd raise the ESRB rating. So I did some digging, and I couldn't find any official source that explicitly states this, not from Sakurai nor Nintendo. Maybe i'm dumb or just didn't look in the right places(which is very possible), so if anyone of you could find a source on that i'd appreciate it. I also found out that Shadow The Hedgehog(the game, not the character)has a ESRB rating of E+ just like Super Smash Bros Ultimate does. This is notable because that game uses realistic guns that happen to fire real bullets, so it's not a Joker situation with that game. So all of that tells me, that the whole "Doomguy can't get in because he uses real guns" argument is dead, at least in my opinion. It wasn't a very good argument to begin with anyway.
That’s ESRB, anyway. But Sakurai, and Nintendo in general, develop games under Japan’s CERO Rating System, which has been mentioned on this thread before. So out of curiosity, what was Shadow the Hedgehog’s CERO Rating again? The point I’m trying to make is, they might be making the right points for the wrong rating system.
 

Holphino

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That’s ESRB, anyway. But Sakurai, and Nintendo in general, develop games under Japan’s CERO Rating System, which has been mentioned on this thread before. So out of curiosity, what was Shadow the Hedgehog’s CERO Rating again? The point I’m trying to make is, they might be making the right points for the wrong rating system.
I know the rating systems are different for each region, that's an excellent point, however my comment was about the specific "Snake couldn't use his guns because it'd lower the ESRB rating" thing that always gets brought up. I always thought it made no sense whatsoever. So I wanted to throw in my 2 cents about it. If that statement would've mentioned CERO instead then I wouldn't of even bothered commenting.

EDIT: I looked into it and Shadow The Hedgehog has a rating of "for everyone" in Japan under CERO.
 
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I know the rating systems are different for each region, that's an excellent point, however my comment was about the specific "Snake couldn't use his guns because it'd lower the ESRB rating" thing that always gets brought up. I always thought it made no sense whatsoever. So I wanted to throw in my 2 cents about it. If that statement would've mentioned CERO instead then I wouldn't of even bothered commenting.

EDIT: I looked into it and Shadow The Hedgehog has a rating of "for everyone" in Japan under CERO.
Huh. Now that is interesting.

Shadow the Hedgehog was that rating in both regions, and had guns and the like, but Snake couldn’t get any realistic guns in Smash. That is just weird.
 

Holphino

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Huh. Now that is interesting.

Shadow the Hedgehog was that rating in both regions, and had guns and the like, but Snake couldn’t get any realistic guns in Smash. That is just weird.
A possible reason is that it was a creative decision by Nintendo for Brawl. As this is when Nintendo was VERY family friendly as opposed to how they are now.
 
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TerminatorLOL

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Corrin uses a chainsaw, so it's most likely perfectly fine for Doomguy to use one. As long as it doesn't cause organs or blood to spill out that is.
Yeah, I've never understood why people think that a chainsaw is such a big no-no.

It's a gardening tool, you trim hedges or prune trees with it. But thanks to Joker we no longer see a problem with a double barrel shotgun, which was designed specifically to kill things?
Sure a chainsaw cutting someone can be gory (so can shooting them, or setting them on fire, or choping them with an axe :ultvillager:), but this game has no gore and both :ultcorrinf:&:ultbowserjr: already use spinning saws in their move sets.
 
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Davidius

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A possible reason is that it was a creative decision by Nintendo for Brawl. As this is when Nintendo was VERY family friendly as opposed to how they are now.
FWIW I don't recall ratings being specified explicitly as an issue with Snake, people just inferred that. With the benefit of hindsight it sounds much more like a creative decision.

From ign.com/articles/2006/05/11/e3-2006-super-smash-bros-brawl
"We thought a lot about what to do with Snake and his moves in Super Smash Bros. Brawl," said Sakurai. "As you all know Snake walks around with a gun, but with Super Smash Bros. I didn't want to bring in a lot of real weapons. So that was a real challenge. But conversely, if we could use things like rocket launchers and other explosives, not only would that be fitting for Snake, but it would work for the other characters. But who knows. Maybe Snake will exclusively use explosives throughout the game."
I also remember him expressing a desire to limit third parties during Brawl but I don't have a source for that.
 
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Yeah, I've never understood why people think that a chainsaw is such a big no-no.

It's a gardening tool you trim hedges or prune trees with it. But thanks to Joker we no longer see a problem with a double barrel shotgun, which was designed specifically to kill things?
Sure a chainsaw cutting some can be gory (so can shooting them or setting them on fire or choping them with an axe :ultvillager:), but this game has no gore and both :ultcorrinf:&:ultbowserjr: already use spinning saws in their move sets.
Swords can kill people but no one sees a problem with them.
 

Holphino

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FWIW I don't recall ratings being specified explicitly as an issue with Snake, people just inferred that. With the benefit of hindsight it sounds much more like a creative decision.

From ign.com/articles/2006/05/11/e3-2006-super-smash-bros-brawl

I also remember him expressing a desire to limit third parties during Brawl but I don't have a source for that.
That quote is pretty much a confirmation that it was a creative decision. Thanks for finding and sharing it, it certainly helps Doomguy's chances alot imo.
 
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Smashhacker

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So in recent news, classic Doomguy skins are confirmed for Doom Eternal


This probably shows how the classic design for Doomguy in smash could work if the Doom Eternal design and moveset takes priority first.
 
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So in recent news, classic Doomguy skins are confirmed for Doom Eternal

Glad that Classic skins for Doom Slayer aren’t an issue for Smash anymore. They look pretty good.

EDIT: What I mean is that Doom Slayer would likely use his Eternal incarnation in Smash, which some would say would leave out Classic skins if his moveset used the Doomblade and shoulder-mounted Cannon. With this recent announcement, this isn’t an issue anymore.
 
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Glad that Classic skins for Doom Slayer aren’t an issue for Smash anymore. They look pretty good.

EDIT: What I mean is that Doom Slayer would likely use his Eternal incarnation in Smash, which some would say would leave out Classic skins if his moveset used the Doomblade and shoulder-mounted Cannon. With this recent announcement, this isn’t an issue anymore.
Call me crazy, but these additions just make features for Smash even more possible.
I wasn't even thinking about his shoulder Cannon until now, but that's already fixed.
So, they could add 4 Doom Slayer palettes and 4 Doomguy palettes.
Color palettes solved! :)
 

Geassguy

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So in recent news, classic Doomguy skins are confirmed for Doom Eternal


This probably shows how the classic design for Doomguy in smash could work if the Doom Eternal design and moveset takes priority first.
I figured something like this would exist but It's nice to see it for real. Doomguy/slayer in Smash really does seem feasible at this point, regardless of how likely.

Also, as far as those ports go, can confirm that with that patch they are now solid ports and not a bad way to play vanilla Doom.
 
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I figured something like this would exist but It's nice to see it for real. Doomguy/slayer in Smash really does seem feasible at this point, regardless of how likely.

Also, as far as those ports go, can confirm that with that patch they are now solid ports and not a bad way to play vanilla Doom.
Did it fixed the sound to proper levels? As in, it doesn't sound slowed down?
 

Buzzwole

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So in recent news, classic Doomguy skins are confirmed for Doom Eternal


This probably shows how the classic design for Doomguy in smash could work if the Doom Eternal design and moveset takes priority first.
Sure would be a perfect alternate costume in Smash......
 
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