At Smash's Gate - The Doom Marine/Doomguy/Doom Slayer Thread

Ben Holt

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Source Gaming put out a video about Doom content that we could potentially see if Doomguy made it into Smash Ultimate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Oq7hjG1Zm8

I feel like the stage idea is a bit complicated (it seems like they would probably stick with something straightforward, like the UAC base from Doom 2016, or E1M1 from the original, since most third party stages tend to be locations from the very start of the game), and Rathalos is an odd choice for Doomguy's final boss in Classic mode (I figured it would be Ganon or Dracula), but otherwise, I liked the video. The list of spirits is quite thorough.
My reaction:
 
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PatPrime

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Specific smash quote:



Doesn’t sound too good for him. If they still haven’t been approached then he isn’t gonna be in the second pass.
It could always be just to not break NDA. Saying no comment or just flat out saying they were approached would definitely not be allowed. Grant Kirkhope denied knowledge of Banjo getting in Smash even though he composed a music track. That said, this still does make me very worried.
 

cool mario bros

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It could always be just to not break NDA. Saying no comment or just flat out saying they were approached would definitely not be allowed. Grant Kirkhope denied knowledge of Banjo getting in Smash even though he composed a music track. That said, this still does make me very worried.
It seems like a very honest answer though. I don’t think they would go as far as to say they’ve asked about it either. I think this is a pretty hard blow for Doomguy.

And it’s also a hard blow to Cacomallow, because if ID hasn’t been approached at all then the Cacodemon hat wouldn’t be possible.

I mean, there is the possibility Marty’s lying, but I highly doubt it. I remember the Snake fans during the Smash 4 days were sure that Kojima was trolling when he said “it wasn’t likely that Snake is returning”. Of course, he wasn’t. Not gonna get burned on false hope.
 

PatPrime

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It seems like a very honest answer though. I don’t think they would go as far as to say they’ve asked about it either. I think this is a pretty hard blow for Doomguy.

And it’s also a hard blow to Cacomallow, because if ID hasn’t been approached at all then the Cacodemon hat wouldn’t be possible.

I mean, there is the possibility Marty’s lying, but I highly doubt it. I remember the Snake fans during the Smash 4 days were sure that Kojima was trolling when he said “it wasn’t likely that Snake is returning”. Of course, he wasn’t. Not gonna get burned on false hope.
This news certainly isn't positive for us but I'm not going to lose ALL hope yet. But I guess I should really lower my expectations then.

*sigh* God ****ing damnit. At least Crash is still looking likely and I got Banjo but I'm so sick of this ****.
 
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This news certainly isn't positive for us but I'm not going to lose ALL hope yet. But I guess I should really lower my expectations then.

*sigh* God ****ing damnit. At least Crash is still looking likely and I got Banjo but I'm so sick of this ****.
I mean, Nintendo could've just also went to the higher ups at Bethesda or Zenimax instead if going to id, since I assume it would be up to one of those two instead when it comes to Doom in Smash since Zenimax owns id.
 

Room100

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I mean, Nintendo could've just also went to the higher ups at Bethesda or Zenimax instead if going to id, since I assume it would be up to one of those two instead when it comes to Doom in Smash since Zenimax owns id.
As much of denial as it may be, this might be the case if he were to get in. After all, getting Banjo/Cuphead costume in was mostly a Microsoft affair it seems - maybe there's weirdness with who they'd actually be talking to?
 

PatPrime

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As much of denial as it may be, this might be the case if he were to get in. After all, getting Banjo/Cuphead costume in was mostly a Microsoft affair it seems - maybe there's weirdness with who they'd actually be talking to?
But Nintendo also worked with Rare, not just Microsoft. So to me, Id HAS to be involved since they know Doom the best. Unless this really is just making sure they don't break NDA, Doomguy's chances just went down the drain and I hate everything right now.
 
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But Nintendo also worked with Rare, not just Microsoft. So to me, Id HAS to be involved since they know Doom the best. Unless this really is just making sure they don't break NDA, Doomguy's chances just went down the drain and I hate everything right now.
I mean he didn't explicitly say no either, ended on a hard maybe so I wouldn't completely throw hope away just yet.
 

Ridley_Prime

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Oh look, another non-answer.

This kind of speculation I never want to sugarcoat, but if you see any of it as a damning sign, then just as well to move on I suppose before getting too invested, especially when (again) all the DLC's already been decided.

Eternal's shaping up to be possibly the best Doom ever, so not like Doomguy's going anywhere even if he's not in Smash. It is interesting though how Eternal's Cacodemon looks more cartoonish, when we've had Cacomallow floating around for awhile, even if I doubted Cacomallow's legitimacy after awhile for various reasons.
 

Wunderwaft

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It's a damn shame that Doomguy might be out of the ring now. I wanted to see an FPS rep in Smash and I figured Doomguy would be the most likely one. If Doomguy is out then it's up to Master Chief and Gordon Freeman now.
 

Davidius

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I thought he had a decent chance for one of the six but that interview seems candid so now I'm putting it at near-zero. He could be lying but I doubt it. Unfortunate but there's always more Doom and at least I didn't wait 2 more years for this. One thing I am glad about this game cycle is not having to wait long for Snake to be announced at least.
 
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Ok, things are looking a bit bleak. Won’t lose hope, but I’ll bring my expectations to a minimum.

It’s not like the future of Doom depends on Smash, luckily it’s a strong brand with or without it. (It’s a missed opportunity to re-introduce it to Japan).

And Doom is probably one of the only games I see me playing as much as Smash, and Eternal is looking really dope.
 
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Well it’s a sad day for us but are only hope is they are under NDA

But on the bright side this makes it easier for master chief since king zell hinting halo coming to Nintendo after all these years

And could get in smash to promote it
 

PublicServant

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Goodness sakes. After all of the pieces of conjecture that have been presented to this forum, THIS Is the one we're pinning as the final nail in the coffin for the Slayer's chances for fighter status in Smash Bros; a single, out-of-context comment which could be construed in multiple ways (as pointed out by others)?!

Come off it, fine boardsmen! At best, this could be no more than a deflection on Hugo's part, one hinging on a single technicality (That Nintendo didn't approach Id Software directly, but rather their respective publisher and/or owner companies, Bethesda and Zenimax) to...
  1. Be enough to throw off the majority of individuals who'd take such statements at face value, and
  2. Not outright deconfirm anything so as to not look completely dishonest in hindsight.
In all honesty, if Id wanted to make it clear that the Slayer wasn't coming to Smash, they would've done what 343 Industries did and just said no from the get-go (at least during periods where the Slayer ended up being pushed as a speculative frontrunner, necessitating deflation lest everyone's expectations be unduly shattered), not these teeter-tottering half-answers and deflective statements.

Source Gaming put out a video about Doom content that we could potentially see if Doomguy made it into Smash Ultimate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Oq7hjG1Zm8

I feel like the stage idea is a bit complicated (it seems like they would probably stick with something straightforward, like the UAC base from Doom 2016, or E1M1 from the original, since most third party stages tend to be locations from the very start of the game), and Rathalos is an odd choice for Doomguy's final boss in Classic mode (I figured it would be Ganon or Dracula), but otherwise, I liked the video. The list of spirits is quite thorough.
Restricting to the special moves only doesn't exactly provide much creative stimulus, which is likely why this particular set of specials turned out so lacklustre.
  • The SSG would be much better off as a Forward Smash as opposed to a side-special.
  • Similarly, the Chainsaw would suit as a side-special as opposed to a down special.
  • Having the Pistol as the neutral special is, frankly, embarrassing, like BC didn't have enough attacks or effects to draw from.
  • However, I do greatly approve of the Rocket Jump up-special and BFG as the final smash.
When it comes to a stage, given the fact that the Slayer will more than likely use Eternal as it's primary influence, I think it'd suit having the stage be transitional in nature, traveling through space and slipgates demonstrating a wide variety of locales, including:
  • Mars
  • (Hell on) Earth
  • UAC/UAC Cultist/Hell techbases
  • Hell
  • The Sentinel Homeworld, and
  • Urdak (Makyr Homeworld)
Perhaps throw in some classic Doom maps as stand-ins for when someone has a Classicguy alt costume.

As for music, I understand the deliberation of matching the likely tracklist sizes of other DLC fighters, but 11 tracks is too narrow a scope to encompass Doom's musical bangers (especially given the notable absence of Eternal tracks)

IMO And without getting into specifics, the Slayer would most suit being given the Terry treatment when it comes to its music: 50-60 tracks, anywhere between two-thirds or three-quarters of it consisting of Doom tracks and the rest being tracks from Id's other FPS outings, including Wolfenstein & Quake.
 

PatPrime

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So I've cooled off a bit after last night. This response certainly isn't a simple "no" and it DOES feel a little deflective. However, it is an elaborate and specific answer, which are the kind of answers that feel honest to me. So as of right now, my expectations have dropped to a minimum but my hopes aren't 100% gone yet.

Personally, I was glad with Ridley's inclusion and excited beyond belief when Banjo got announced. If Crash gets in, who I think is very likely, I will be satisfied if Doomguy doesn't get in. Aside from that, Doom Eternal is still looking fantastic and I'm just waiting to see how the Switch version will look and feel.
 

KingDoop

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The first thing that came to mind was how back in 2004, Aonuma said they were developing Wind Waker 2. Point being people lie when asked a question that would spoil a surprise.

But even if not an NDA deflection I actually took this interview positively. It's hard for nintendo to miss doomguy's popularity with fans, and now the developers are asking directly. I think he's inevitable. If not for fighters pass 2 then whatever comes after, be it pass 3 or smash 6. I'm patient, and ultimate has been great so far without doomguy and will continue to be so
 

Geassguy

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Y'all need to ****in' relax.
If there's an NDA, what else is he going to say? You essentially have to lie.

Ewan McGregor had to lie to fans for LITERALLY YEARS, telling them he had not talked to Disney about an Obi-Wan spin-off, when he had, years ago, but Disney wanted it kept under wraps.

People lie on NDA's all the time, get a grip. He may not be one of 6 but this is sure as **** not changing our chances as far as I'm concerned.
 
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Davidius

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Y'all need to ****in' relax.
If there's an NDA, what else is he going to say? You essentially have to lie.

Ewan McGregor had to lie to fans for LITERALLY YEARS, telling them he had not talked to Disney about an Obi-Wan spin-off, when he had, years ago, but Disney wanted it kept under wraps.

People lie on NDA's all the time, get a grip. He may not be one of 6 but this is sure as **** not changing our chances as far as I'm concerned.
He could be lying but really his response comes across as needlessly elaborate for dodging an NDA. Most of the time when developers are asked they just deflect with something short like "we'd love it, ask Nintendo". Marty deciding to mention that they informally raised the topic themselves is a bit much and the simplest explanation to me is that he is telling the truth and not bound by NDA.
 

PatPrime

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I've just thought about this, does anyone know of similar interviews Marty was a part of that also had elaborate answers to questions that were misleading or specific and just happened to be lies? If not, then what about other interviews from other developers? I'm curious if this kind of answer is common.
 

Ender1645

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Dang, not only has GameXplain uploaded a video on what Marty said, but some of those comments are harsh.

EDIT: the comments on the video not in the video
 
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Room100

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Dang, not only has GameXplain uploaded a video on what Marty said, but some of those comments are harsh.

EDIT: the comments on the video not in the video
Honestly I was a little surprised. I knew a lot of people couldn't see past the violence of the games themselves but I don't really see why he'd warrant the hostility as a concept.

I guess when you have a specific character you really want, seeing a different one that people say is likely is kinda threatening.
 

Ender1645

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Honestly I was a little surprised. I knew a lot of people couldn't see past the violence of the games themselves but I don't really see why he'd warrant the hostility as a concept.

I guess when you have a specific character you really want, seeing a different one that people say is likely is kinda threatening.
Those comments and also the Geno thread letting go of Doomslayer basically confirmed that most people were just expecting him to come in not want him to. That sucks, Doomslayer feels like an underrated choice to me.
 

Room100

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Those comments and also the Geno thread letting go of Doomslayer basically confirmed that most people were just expecting him to come in not want him to. That sucks, Doomslayer feels like an underrated choice to me.
I agree. I think part of it is people don't really look past the broad concept of the character. When you look at the moveset potential I think he's really promising, and a top choice as a primarily-firearm character.

Lots of people happy over the article as fans of Master Chief and I can't really blame them, I like MC too. I feel the Slayer is a way more interesting concept though with his mobility and aggressiveness.
 

Davidius

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Those comments and also the Geno thread letting go of Doomslayer basically confirmed that most people were just expecting him to come in not want him to. That sucks, Doomslayer feels like an underrated choice to me.
Doomguy is a solid choice both for the importance of his series and because he's a good fighter concept, if there are people who can't see it then I just think they're unimaginative or ignorant. There are probably still plenty of people who find the idea agreeable even if they're not that fussed. During 4 Snake got a lot of detractors for "not fitting" and many people apparently not caring that he was cut but he still remained pretty popular, granted he was a veteran.
 

ryuu seika

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Doomguy is a solid choice both for the importance of his series and because he's a good fighter concept, if there are people who can't see it then I just think they're unimaginative or ignorant. There are probably still plenty of people who find the idea agreeable even if they're not that fussed. During 4 Snake got a lot of detractors for "not fitting" and many people apparently not caring that he was cut but he still remained pretty popular, granted he was a veteran.
I would still argue that the Doom Slayer fits better than Snake. More colour, more exaggerated and more fantasy.
As shooters go, Doom Slayer's the only one that really appeals to me as a possible inclusion, so I'll stick around as long as theirs any small spark of hope for the indefinite future.
 
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Room100

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For the sake of argument, let's say the infamous quote is 100% truth. Best possible outcome, id brought up the concept but then further talks were primarily between big N and Bethesda/Zenimax. Maybe even some particular phrasing with "Nintendo" not approaching them for Doomguy but Bethesda/Zenimax popping the question?

I'll be the first to admit this is extremely reaching, I'm just relaying the possibilities. It's far more likely that he was either lying for NDA, or not lying and Doomguy won't happen in FP2
 
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Sorry for the bad news, guys. :urg:

I guess this pretty much obeliterates CacoMallow too.

I would still argue that the Doom Slayer fits better than Snake. More colour, more exaggerated and more fantasy.
As shooters go, Doom Slayer's the only one that really appeals to me as a possible inclusion, so I'll stick around as long as theirs any small spark of hope for the indefinite future.
As far as M-rated shooters go, I agree that Doom is pretty cartoony (specially Doom I and II), hell I always felt like the old-school demons could've easily pass as enemies taken from the Legend of Zelda or Metroid series.
 

volbound1700

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Sorry for the bad news, guys. :urg:

I guess this pretty much obeliterates CacoMallow too.



As far as M-rated shooters go, I agree that Doom is pretty cartoony (specially Doom I and II), hell I always felt like the old-school demons could've easily pass as enemies taken from the Legend of Zelda or Metroid series.
Funny, back in the day they were seen as terrifying and Doom was depicted as overtly violent. Graphics have come a long way :). Today, it does come off as cartoony but back then it was intense and terrifying. I remember my dad buying the game in the mid 1990s when I was 10 years old.
 

PatPrime

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This is petty of me but if we do get Doom costumes and/or a different Bethesda character, it would rub salt in the wound for me and I'd rather not see these things. Unless Vaultboy is a character. That would be cool.
 
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Welp. I have seen the notice and man that sucks. I feel like there's something going on and there's no word on it due to contract but in any way, this is kind of sour.

I'll lower my expectations as low as I can then. It's all up in the air at this point.

:bowser:.
 

PublicServant

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Lots of people happy over the article as fans of Master Chief and I can't really blame them, I like MC too. I feel the Slayer is a way more interesting concept though with his mobility and aggressiveness.
And yet the fools conveniently forget the fact that Postums (or Jeff Easterling or whoever) outright stated that Master Chief was never asked to be in, nor will he come to Smash Ultimate.
 
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Links please? I couldn't find the claims after briefly googling.
That was Frank O Conner (343 Industries person) who said it around Ultimates release so going into Volume 2 means that any message about characters from then until at least November of last year means nothing.
 

Lionfranky

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That was Frank O Conner (343 Industries person) who said it around Ultimates release so going into Volume 2 means that any message about characters from then until at least November of last year means nothing.
So the guy above me not only got a wrong person, but also wrong statement, huh?
 

M00NFIRE94

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I'm sorry fellas Id didn't flat out tell you if Doomguy was gonna be Fighter 6 or 7. Don't they care about us enough to breach contract?!

Joking aside, I remember back when it was still up in the air who'd be part of Fighter Pass 1 and SNK, when asked if they'd get a rep, were all "wouldn't that be awesome? Oh please, Nintendo-san!" while Terry was likely already in. What's happening here is probably the same thing with Doomguy so knock it off.
 
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