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At Smash's Gate - The Doom Marine/Doomguy/Doom Slayer Thread

Morbi

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If Bethesda and Nintendo see fit to agree to put a rep in from a Bethesda game I'd like to see the Doom Slayer (most likely name, IMO) get in! With the success of DOOM on Switch and his moveset potential + his iconic status as a gaming icon I think he'd be a perfect fit, especially if they can keep him true to his games without getting too violent with him alá Brawl's Snake. My main worry is that if there is one and only one Bethesda character they might go with the Dragonborn seeing as Skyrim seems to be more popular or at least recognized by the average person, and it also got a Switch port.
The only issue I have with that is that I doubt Betheseda would put forth Doom Guy or even more to the point, that Nintendo would want him. I just find it hard to believe that if this hypothetical contract were to take place, that they would avoid a much less grey candidate who is arguably more relevant in a modern context.
 

Blue_Sword_Edge

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The only issue I have with that is that I doubt Betheseda would put forth Doom Guy or even more to the point, that Nintendo would want him. I just find it hard to believe that if this hypothetical contract were to take place, that they would avoid a much less grey candidate who is arguably more relevant in a modern context.
Both Doom Guy/Doom Slayer and the Last Dragonborn (Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim's protagonist) are relevant as of right now. It's really between Bethesda and Nintendo for the Dragonborn and the same could apply to the likes of Id Software and Nintendo for the Doom Guy/Doom Slayer.

In either case, Zenimax Media owns both Bethesda Softworks(and their publishing counterpart) and Id Software, so technically, Zenimax may have the final say overall.
 
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TCT~Phantom

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Neat little pic I found on knowyourmeme, thought it looked so cool I had to share it with yall.

Also put me down as a supporter, I want Doomguy if only for the rockin soundtrack Doom has.
 

Brother AJ

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Sign me up! He's such a historical gaming figure, and remains relevant to this day. The whole realistic guns not being allowed thing just bugs me at this point honestly. Especially now that Bayonetta was added. They may be "magical" guns, but those are ****ing guns Sakurai... Sadly, it's probably a major factor that will still hold this character back.
 

Blue_Sword_Edge

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Sign me up! He's such a historical gaming figure, and remains relevant to this day. The whole realistic guns not being allowed thing just bugs me at this point honestly. Especially now that Bayonetta was added. They may be "magical" guns, but those are ****ing guns Sakurai... Sadly, it's probably a major factor that will still hold this character back.
Cool! You are added. The realistic guns can be side stepped if the devs work the Doom Slayer/Doom Marine like Solid Snake was restricted to hand-to-hand combat and explosives, but that's not how I envision the Doom Slayer/Doom Marine. He has a varied arsenal throughout the many games the Doom Marine/Doom Slayer appeared in and the realistic guns don't have to be involved.
 
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Morbi

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Cool! You are added. The realistic guns can be side stepped if the devs work the Doom Slayer/Doom Marine like Solid Snake was restricted to hand-to-hand combat and explosives, but that's not how I envision the Doom Slayer/Doom Marine. He has a varied arsenal throughout the many games the Doom Marine/Doom Slayer appeared in and the realistic guns don't have to be involved.
I do have to be real, the MAIN reason I would want Doom Guy is specifically for the Super Shotgun. So if he were "Snake-ified" I would be a bit irked. I guess he would still be allowed to use his plasma guns because lasers and bombs are okay, but bullets, uh uh uh.
 

Blue_Sword_Edge

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I do have to be real, the MAIN reason I would want Doom Guy is specifically for the Super Shotgun. So if he were "Snake-ified" I would be a bit irked. I guess he would still be allowed to use his plasma guns because lasers and bombs are okay, but bullets, uh uh uh.
Those shotguns from the classic games are a bit on the unrealistic side being that the range on those are ridiculous, hitting targets from across the room and still hits the enemies well, in spite of the power not being in effect at a distance.
 
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chemo

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Honestly, I'm a bit biased since I'm such a big DOOM/id/Retro and retro-style FPS fan, but Doomguy is my most-wanted candidate for Smash, at least in terms of third-parties. Not only would he make for such a cool and unique character with a interesting moveset in Smash, but if it weren't for his home series, the game industry of today would probably look a lot different. DOOM has influence many things, such as the birth of the FPS genre, the PC being made into a significant and influential gaming platform, the rise of the modding scene, and even the debate on violence in video games. It also helps that the series has a significant history with Nintendo; not just with DOOM 2016 on Switch and DOOM 64, but also the SNES and GBA ports of the original games which were technical showpieces for those two platforms.

If Doomguy gets into Smash, I want trophies and music from various games in the series, from DOOM 1 to DOOM 64 to DOOM 3, then all the way up to DOOM 2016 (and possibly DOOM 5 if the release is close enough and Sakurai and his team are given pre-release materials from id). Not only that, but why not give some minor Quake representation? It would be metal to hear tracks like the Quake 1 theme (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv5Jvr2Fp48), or Descent into Cerberon from Quake II (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALBKFB28E0M) sometimes play when fighting on Doomguy's home-stage. Also, Quad-Damage power-up please.

So yeah, consider me a supporter.
 
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Morbi

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Honestly, I'm a bit biased since I'm such a big DOOM/id/Retro and retro-style FPS fan, but Doomguy is my most-wanted candidate for Smash, at least in terms of third-parties. Not only would he make for such a cool and unique character with a interesting moveset in Smash, but if it weren't for his home series, the game industry of today would probably look a lot different. DOOM has influence many things, such as the birth of the FPS genre, the PC being made into a significant and influential gaming platform, the rise of the modding scene, and even the debate on violence in video games. It also helps that the series has a significant history with Nintendo; not just with DOOM 2016 on Switch and DOOM 64, but also the SNES and GBA ports of the original games which were technical showpieces for those two platforms.

If Doomguy gets into Smash, I want trophies and music from various games in the series, from DOOM 1 to DOOM 64 to DOOM 3, then all the way up to DOOM 2016 (and possibly DOOM 5 if the release is close enough and Sakurai and his team are given pre-release materials from id). Not only that, but why not give some minor Quake representation? It would be metal to hear tracks like the Quake 1 theme (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv5Jvr2Fp48), or Descent into Cerberon from Quake II (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALBKFB28E0M) sometimes play when fighting on Doomguy's home-stage. Also, Quad-Damage power-up please.

So yeah, consider me a supporter.
I cannot even imagine a Smash game with Mick Gordon. I always thought Smash 4 had the best collection of music, but Smash Switch would be next level. That might actually be better than Doom Guy himself, just seeing his stage, presumably hell, but probably BFG lab and the music.
 

Blue_Sword_Edge

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Honestly, I'm a bit biased since I'm such a big DOOM/id/Retro and retro-style FPS fan, but Doomguy is my most-wanted candidate for Smash, at least in terms of third-parties. Not only would he make for such a cool and unique character with a interesting moveset in Smash, but if it weren't for his home series, the game industry of today would probably look a lot different. DOOM has influence many things, such as the birth of the FPS genre, the PC being made into a significant and influential gaming platform, the rise of the modding scene, and even the debate on violence in video games. It also helps that the series has a significant history with Nintendo; not just with DOOM 2016 on Switch and DOOM 64, but also the SNES and GBA ports of the original games which were technical showpieces for those two platforms.

If Doomguy gets into Smash, I want trophies and music from various games in the series, from DOOM 1 to DOOM 64 to DOOM 3, then all the way up to DOOM 2016 (and possibly DOOM 5 if the release is close enough and Sakurai and his team are given pre-release materials from id). Not only that, but why not give some minor Quake representation? It would be metal to hear tracks like the Quake 1 theme (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv5Jvr2Fp48), or Descent into Cerberon from Quake II (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALBKFB28E0M) sometimes play when fighting on Doomguy's home-stage. Also, Quad-Damage power-up please.

So yeah, consider me a supporter.
It could make sense for Quake Champions material and possibly Quake 3. As of other franchises that come to mind, the classic continuities tie in both Wolfenstein and the obscure Commander Keen games as the characters from those two game franchises are ancestors to the Doom Marine. Those could make some sense, too. Commander Keen could have his DOS incarnation as an assist trophy.
 
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chemo

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I don't know how possible Quake Champions representation is considering how PC-centric the game is, but if Ranger is an assist trophy I would love to see him use his Dire Orb.
 

Blue_Sword_Edge

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I don't know how possible Quake Champions representation is considering how PC-centric the game is, but if Ranger is an assist trophy I would love to see him use his Dire Orb.
Considering the Quake Champions (which is still in development) includes the Doom Marine/Doom Slayer, I'm somewhat sure references on the multiple outfits can draw references from Quake Champions and Quake 3 as well as the origins of said classic designs, similar to how Dissidia was used for Cloud.
 
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Polan

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Sign me up, I would love to see Doomguy RIP AND TEAR Nintendo's finest. Plus I think we're overdue a Western IP in Smash and what better choice than the guy who helped kickstart the FPS craze?
 
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Llort A. Ton

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Before I got back into Smash speculation, I thought Doomguy was a weird pipedream character only I wanted. There's something so inherently awesome about the idea of Kirby going to Hell, eating the Doomguy, and pulling out a chainsaw or super shotgun. About a year ago I put him as one of my first choices on a personal "100 character dream roster". This was even before DOOM on Switch was announced. I'm both surprised and happy to see so many people also wanting him! Also, major props to the guy that came up with the amazing glory kill concept. Sign me up or I will rip and tear the supporter list!

Also, if he does show up, would you want him to wear the new suit from DOOM 2016 or the classic suit from DOOM 1/2/64? And what demon should be the assist trophy?
 

GolisoPower

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Also, if he does show up, would you want him to wear the new suit from DOOM 2016 or the classic suit from DOOM 1/2/64? And what demon should be the assist trophy?
1) Let him have his 2016 appearance as default and classic suit for alt costumes, like Cloud or Bayonetta.
2) Definitely the Cyberdemon.
 

Morbi

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Before I got back into Smash speculation, I thought Doomguy was a weird pipedream character only I wanted. There's something so inherently awesome about the idea of Kirby going to Hell, eating the Doomguy, and pulling out a chainsaw or super shotgun. About a year ago I put him as one of my first choices on a personal "100 character dream roster". This was even before DOOM on Switch was announced. I'm both surprised and happy to see so many people also wanting him! Also, major props to the guy that came up with the amazing glory kill concept. Sign me up or I will rip and tear the supporter list!

Also, if he does show up, would you want him to wear the new suit from DOOM 2016 or the classic suit from DOOM 1/2/64? And what demon should be the assist trophy?
Despite the Twilight Zone going on here, I still believe he is just a weird pipe-dream character. If they go with 2016, they should probably use the Revenant. If not, definitely the Cyberdemon.
 

chemo

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Also, if he does show up, would you want him to wear the new suit from DOOM 2016 or the classic suit from DOOM 1/2/64? And what demon should be the assist trophy?
The Praetor Suit should be his default outfit, with his armor design from the classic duology being an alternate costume

In terms of assist trophies, there are many I would like to see, but the Revenant and Cyberdemon are tied for my top two
 
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Ridley_Prime

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Cacodemon I’m kinda partial to also. Then there’s the Baron of Hell... Up until Doom 2016, the classics were its only appearance, because the Barons got replaced by their weaker cousin the Hell Knights during the Doom 3 era for some reason.

Far as the main classic bosses, it’s kind of like a Ridley and Mother Brain sort of comparison with the Cyberdemon and Spider Mastermind, funnily enough.
 

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Mechanically it could work as a boss I guess, spawning random demons and having to deal with them while damaging the Icon's forehead, though am not sure Nintendo would condone that much satanic imagery in one of their games, which the Icon of Sin represents in full force.

Would be safer to just have the other mentioned bosses as a boss or assist trophy to avoid any satanic image controversy.

Cyberdemon aside, the Maledict was my favorite boss of the series, being a hellspawn dragon of sorts (the final boss of Doom 3 Resurrection of Evil), but none of the iterations of Doom 3 were on a Nintendo platform, so not counting on that...
 

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Honestly, he's definitely historically significant enough that he 100% deserves the spot, but this is one of those situations where I'd say it'll be a disservice to censor him down for a kids game. Bayonetta has sexuality that can be covered up and toned down, it's part of her character but you can still get the essence of her games and her without it. I personally support someone like travis Touchdown who can be toned down (and even reference it himself) while still being crass and over the top.

Doom lacks so much of it's identity without it's over the top gore, blood and violence. It just doesn't have the same story telling and characterisation to it without those parts of it's identity. He has an image that isn't even iconic since it's been almost entirely taken over by Halo and Master Chief and weapons that rely too much on the over the top violence to feel unique (Bayonetta's guns are actually some of the least violent aspects of her, mostly used to harrass, even in her games).

I might just lack imagination, and Sakurai has pulled off some wacky and impressive representations/translations to Smash before, but I just don't think Doomguy will end up being the Doomguy that we want, or the Doomguy he deserves to be.
 
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GolisoPower

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Doom lacks so much of it's identity without it's over the top gore, blood and violence. It just doesn't have the same story telling and characterisation to it without those parts of it's identity. He has an image that isn't even iconic since it's been almost entirely taken over by Halo and Master Chief and weapons that rely too much on the over the top violence to feel unique (Bayonetta's guns are actually some of the least violent aspects of her, mostly used to harrass, even in her games).
That's why I'm thinking make Doom Slayer an amalgamation of his past incarnations and use some of his 2016 weapons with 90's blood effects. If Doom Slayer were to make it in, he'd have to represent all games in the franchise, so this could be a great work-around imo.
 

Morbi

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Honestly, he's definitely historically significant enough that he 100% deserves the spot, but this is one of those situations where I'd say it'll be a disservice to censor him down for a kids game. Bayonetta has sexuality that can be covered up and toned down, it's part of her character but you can still get the essence of her games and her without it. I personally support someone like travis Touchdown who can be toned down (and even reference it himself) while still being crass and over the top.

Doom lacks so much of it's identity without it's over the top gore, blood and violence. It just doesn't have the same story telling and characterisation to it without those parts of it's identity. He has an image that isn't even iconic since it's been almost entirely taken over by Halo and Master Chief and weapons that rely too much on the over the top violence to feel unique (Bayonetta's guns are actually some of the least violent aspects of her, mostly used to harrass, even in her games).

I might just lack imagination, and Sakurai has pulled off some wacky and impressive representations/translations to Smash before, but I just don't think Doomguy will end up being the Doomguy that we want, or the Doomguy he deserves to be.
The inherent issue is that "deserve" is not necessarily a factor, per se. However, I definitely agree with your sentiment. He just could not be properly represented in Smash. He could work, Sakurai could make a nudist, ax murderer WORK. But the real question is, is it worth it? The answer for me is honestly yes. But the answer for Nintendo and perhaps even Betheseda or whoever owns the IP, is probably a resounding no.
 

chemo

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Honestly, he's definitely historically significant enough that he 100% deserves the spot, but this is one of those situations where I'd say it'll be a disservice to censor him down for a kids game. Bayonetta has sexuality that can be covered up and toned down, it's part of her character but you can still get the essence of her games and her without it. I personally support someone like travis Touchdown who can be toned down (and even reference it himself) while still being crass and over the top.

Doom lacks so much of it's identity without it's over the top gore, blood and violence. It just doesn't have the same story telling and characterisation to it without those parts of it's identity. He has an image that isn't even iconic since it's been almost entirely taken over by Halo and Master Chief and weapons that rely too much on the over the top violence to feel unique (Bayonetta's guns are actually some of the least violent aspects of her, mostly used to harrass, even in her games).

I might just lack imagination, and Sakurai has pulled off some wacky and impressive representations/translations to Smash before, but I just don't think Doomguy will end up being the Doomguy that we want, or the Doomguy he deserves to be.
I disagree. Without the gore, you can still tell how violent and angry Doomguy is with the way he brutally punches things into submission and how he slashes his chainsaw at others. Besides, they can probably still represent some of the important gameplay aspects of his series through Doomguy's potential moveset; over-the-top gore isn't the only thing that makes the DOOM series great, it's also the way you move around and shoot at your enemies, which could definitely be translated into Smash in that sense.
 
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DNeon

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That's why I'm thinking make Doom Slayer an amalgamation of his past incarnations and use some of his 2016 weapons with 90's blood effects
Blood fx from the 90s aren't any less 'blood'. It may not be the intense gore of the latest game but it still pushes the age rating. If Doomguy gets in there will be no blood. And that's the issue.
 

chemo

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This is a few months old but I thought I might as well post this here since I didn't see it in this thread surprisingly;


ofc It could mean nothing but I found it interesting nonetheless that they tweeted this image out of all things.

Though you know, just seeing a simple sketch of Kirby wearing the Praetor Suit helmet makes me want Doomguy in Smash even more.
 

Llort A. Ton

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If Doomguy shows up, at the very least his face/head should show up to replace the player portrait when playing on the Doom stage as an easter egg. It also needs to look from side to side during battle, and make the iconic shocked expression once Doomguy gets KO'd.
 

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This is a few months old but I thought I might as well post this here since I didn't see it in this thread surprisingly;


ofc It could mean nothing but I found it interesting nonetheless that they tweeted this image out of all things.

Though you know, just seeing a simple sketch of Kirby wearing the Praetor Suit helmet makes me want Doomguy in Smash even more.
This is merely a guess, but maybe the DOOM (2016) team or even Id Software themselves likes the idea of the Doom Marine/Doom Slayer in Smash?

If Doomguy shows up, at the very least his face/head should show up to replace the player portrait when playing on the Doom stage as an easter egg. It also needs to look from side to side during battle, and make the iconic shocked expression once Doomguy gets KO'd.
That's sounds cool, I was thinking something similar with the stock icons.
 

GolisoPower

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Everybody on this thread knows that the most likely option for Doom Slayer's Final Smash is the BFG, right?

But what would it be like? The titanic plasma-nuke launcher from the old games or the zap-frying laser-fest from the most recent game?
 

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Everybody on this thread knows that the most likely option for Doom Slayer's Final Smash is the BFG, right?

But what would it be like? The titanic plasma-nuke launcher from the old games or the zap-frying laser-fest from the most recent game?
Definitely the classic game's take on the BFG. It seems more fitting as a Final Smash as the original felt like you are clearing the room in one shot, with power. That power can translate into a Final Smash.
 

chemo

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I think that basing the Final Smash off of the 2016 BFG would be a better fit, I think, because IIRC the classic BFG's projectile only does direct damage to whatever it hits (or no direct damage if it's a wall or some other part of the environment), and splash damage surrounding the area that it impacts, which I don't think fits as well with Smash's flatter, wider, taller, and "2D" environments. The 2016 BFG's projectile, on the other hand, does damage to enemies surrounding the projectile as it travels along with what was previously mentioned, which is a better fit in my opinion, even if it does make it more powerful and harder to counter.
 
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ryuu seika

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Doom lacks so much of it's identity without it's over the top gore, blood and violence. It just doesn't have the same story telling and characterisation to it without those parts of it's identity. He has an image that isn't even iconic since it's been almost entirely taken over by Halo and Master Chief and weapons that rely too much on the over the top violence to feel unique (Bayonetta's guns are actually some of the least violent aspects of her, mostly used to harrass, even in her games).
The Doomslayer would have to change a lot for Smash, yes, but that doesn't mean that his violence needs to be removed.
As discussed much earlier in this topic's life, there are plenty of ways for him to straight up murder the Nintendo cast without it being any less acceptable than the early morning kids TV of his hayday.

We've already seen that Bayonetta can get away with gun use as long as the bullets fire from spell circles. As long as it's abstracted enough from reality, there's no reason that otherwise mature content can't get in.
What the Doomslayer needs is for his violence to be cartoonised, not lost.

Speaking of which, I'm hearing people ask for blood but what if we went back to Smash's origins and referrenced the fact that these aren't Nintendo characters fighting, they're Nintendo figurines? What if his chainsaw, instead of blood and gore, chucked out small curls of coloured plastic, as though it was chipping into their character models?
 
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DNeon

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I really think you guys are underestimating ratings agencies. Bayonetta's guns aren't just 'magical', they're also 'low impact'. They don't have much force or 'cause and effect' to them, you get hit by them and your % goes up, but you hardly actually react to getting hit by the bullets.

I'm not saying you're objectively wrong or anything, I mean we got Snake, and at the end of the day Bayonetta pushed it too so there are things that can be slipped through without raising ratings. I'm just saying that things like

but that doesn't mean that his violence needs to be removed.
Is kind of misunderstanding what the agencies look at. It's not just 'blood and gore' because most actually have that as a separate rating, but they also tend to rate the violence itself, how violent the actions are and the responses that they recieve. They're not different to us, if we look at it and think 'Yes, Doomguy is so violent' rating agencies are likely going to be thinking the same, without the yes.
 
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Llort A. Ton

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I'd like to add that games like Uncharted feature heavy gun related violence and get away with a T (13 and older) rating from the ESRB, which Melee and Brawl both featured unlike Smash Bros 4. However, I myself still heavily doubt if this would get rid of any concerns at Nintendo Japan. Both Brawl and Smash 4 are both rated "A" for all ages under the Japanese rating board CERO, despite having different rating here in North America. Snake's explosive related violence in Brawl fit under the A rating, while Uncharted is rated "C" for ages 15+. I don't think Nintendo or Sakurai would want their game to escape the A rating in their home country.

So here's a proposed hypothetical solution; Maybe Sakurai could do some self censoring for the Japanese version like he had to do with Smash Bros 4 and make Doomguy shoot something silly like bullet bills or laser beams out of his guns, then the international version changes the sprites/models into the real deal? I think that would be a reasonable enough compromise to still give Doomguy the justice he would deserve, albeit only in most of the world instead of all of it.
 
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chemo

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In some cases, actually, you can get away with guns in E10+ rated games; not only with titles such as Worms, but Pinball FX2 and FX3, both E10+ rated, has a DOOM-themed table which, among other things (the only elements I can tell that have been censored compared to the source material is the gore and the Revenant. Everything else, including references to Demons, pentagrams and Hell, is left intact), has a miniature Doomguy shooting a Cyberdemon with his Super Shotgun and other weapons from his arsenal.

But yeah, CERO could pose a problem.
 

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Would it be possible to give Doomguy a moveset that actually functioned from a First Person perspective?

I think that would be mighty fun. And bring back my original terror of being five and frightened that people attacked me from behind and all I had was my fist.
I still shower with my back against the wall.
 
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