Ask Shaz: Melee

[Cronos_Rainbow]

Anyone wanting some advice for melee I'm glad to help. Either link me a vid of yourself for critique, ask for some character or match-up advice or ask about a player (if I havent played them link me some vids). I'm doing this because A: I enjoy it, B: I've been around a long time and seen a lot, C: I probably have more varied experience in character match-ups than most Australians, but mostly D: I want to see people improve

 

[Mic_128]

Dear Shaz
What's the best move to use against the little bois?
From Mic

 

[Cronos_Rainbow]

That would be crouch > moon-walk > up-b!

 

[luke_atyeo]

lol anything regarding luigi would be nice, the luigi melee boards are pretty bad...

 

[Timic83]

how do ics beat peach

 

[Vlade]

Maybe I could get some matches with Quetz recorded today and get them critiqued from Shaz :D

I really want to get decent at melee

 

[Pete278]

lol anything regarding luigi would be nice, the luigi melee boards are pretty bad...

I too need Weegee Melee advice.

 

[CAOTIC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am2z2HGLTaI

Skip to 9.09

How can this Fox player improve? Also, I wonder why he taunted just before 9.09 when he lost so much stock...

 

[Cronos_Rainbow]

Lol KO you don't question awesome xD - you just admire it with awe and wonder what you did in your past life to be so lucky to witness it.

Luigi
Luigi has some unique qualities about him. Let's take a look at them.

[Things to focus on]

Nair: This one's obvious. Luigi can do this quickly after taking damage, and for this serves as a great move to regain composure when being attacked as it's both high priority, and sends the opponent to a position they can't hope to continue their attacks from easily. There's good value in climbing with this attack as Luigi has more than enough jump in him to follow up.

Utilt: Off the bat it looks rather pathetic...I know, but this move is something that will get the ball started on combos. I suggest using this move in combination with Luigis wavedash, which as we all know is god-like.

Usmash: Like above works well while wavedashing. This smash hits a big area behind Luigi which has various upsides. Think of ways to use this to your advantage. *Cough out of shield.

Dthrow: Nice setup throw.

A, A, A combo: Although these are rarely used by most players in Melee, they aren't all bad. Granted I wouldn't suggest throwing them out as Mewtwo often. Luigis is fast to come out, and the third hit sends the opponent to a convenient place. Don't be shy to use the first two hits into a grab, dsmash, utilt etc.

Dsmash: A nice smash - use it xD.

Fair: CHOP! This can be used well at low altitude, and can be brought out twice like Marths in doing so. You can waveland this after a SH to follow it up, or use it while retreating backwards with a wd. Use while recovering to help cover the obvious flaw in this aspect of his game.

And lastly but not leastly,
Ftilt: Whats with this guy!? his ftilt is awesome...moreso than you'd ever think. Use it

[Things to avoid]

Dash attack: Wow...epic fail.

Using second jump early in recovery: His recovery sucks enough....don't do it.

'Normal' means of travel: Don't run around wd around. Only move normally if you're doing so walking.

Counting on fireballs: Use them sparingly as they're far from the ideal choice in projectile. That said they can be used well but it's at opportune moments they're worth their butter.

[Things to keep in mind]

Wavedash: = more movement freedom = advantage. Use wd with any and everything...grabs, tilts, smashes.

CC: With his traction this is a must. Can link into things like dsmash or dtilt well...though I wouldn't spam the latter.

Cyclone: Try using it to aid recovery. Every little bit helps. Be like Thunders!


IC's vs Peach.


Wow what a doosey of a fight this is.

Okay, firstly keep in mind that Peach is very heavily an aerial character (albeit low altitude). When a character is in the air, it's safe to say you can go into your shield with very few exceptions (the only one with Peach is a Mr. Saturn really...which she won't have often).
Now that sounds good and well, but you need to keep in mind that Peach has herself a handly little abusive trick called Float Cancel. This pretty much means she will come out of air attacks and straight into grounded ones (very likely A, A slaps or dsmash) incredibly fast. You don't want her putting the pressure on you in this way or it's just a matter of time before you're minced :\. Get under Peach and land some upairs. You should be safe to do so for the most part. Doing this will hopefully deter her from dropping turnips on your head (or shiled) to whittle you away. WD is friend! Don't stay too far back from her at any time either, or the turnip lucky pluck will begin....which you don't want. Lastly shield grab and do what all IC mains do best - abuse the hell out of their dual-over mitt grab combos! Hope this helps.

 

[S.D]

how do ics beat peach

They don't.

But if you must try, fair is your best friend and predominant approach, it has enough of a hitbox to knock her out of any conventional float height. Normal CG stuff won't work on Peach, she can easily DI up out of it and escape. You need to either wobble or perfect your ledge chain grab, but grabs are hard to come by vs a smart peach. Light shield is a godsend, it will get you away from her float cancel BS and ensures that dsmash won't shield poke and split you up. As soon as Nana is away from you she's toast, so play conservative and wait for opportunities to get in and do some damage. Don't get wavedash happy to approach a floating Peach, this just gives her a chance to mess you up. As Shaz said uair when you can, but it's a futile MU.

Sorry to give advice in your thread Shaz but I know a little on the matter, hope its no intrusion!

 

[Cronos_Rainbow]

NP SD it's welcome. Peach gives Roy nightmares also -_-

 

[Timic83]

ty chronos and sd for the advice :D

do you think wavedash to up angled ftilt or utilt would work, since peach is usually hovering above u?

 

[S.D]

ty chronos and sd for the advice :D

do you think wavedash to up angled ftilt or utilt would work, since peach is usually hovering above u?

A good Peach will rarely float that low, you probably don't want to challenge her float cancel approaches with u tilt or f tilt, especially u tilt coz it's hella laggy and not cool if you miss. u tilt is generally less effective against floaties anyway. bair and nair can do the trick but it's situational.

 

[luke_atyeo]

cheers shaz

 

[CAOTIC]

Wobbling beats Peach. Just do that. The matchup is even when any grab IC's get converts to a wobble->KO.

 

[MikulOnIce85]

Shaz, any tips for the Falcon/Sheik matchup? Em keeps playing sheik to destroy my falcon lolol.

Also, come back to victoria with a copy of Fire Emblem. Let's find out how cheap brave sword karel is at near capped stats.

 

[Alzi]

How do you wave dash in melee?

 

[xXArrowXx]

How to gimp a shiek, or edge guard...

so i hop on the ledge then.. ?

 

[Timic83]

How do you wave dash in melee?

jump and airdodge into the ground as soon as you leave the floor

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

... lol


arrow you dont need help, your the best marth in australia yeaahhhzzz

 

[kupo]

What does that say about yours ey?

 

[undead_moose]

What is your stance on roy?

 

[Dekar289]

i got some tips mikul
did this sick combo on gords

up throw, nair, nair, up-air down air
maybe just try doing that every single stock

but generally, use more across b

 

[xXArrowXx]

?? syke, i am just asking for a friend of mine.... XD

 

[Cronos_Rainbow]

Timic : I'd suggest you use bair or even usmash if you're planning on WD'ing in at Peach floating. Keep in mind aerials can't clash also.

Mikul (and Arrow or his friend if they're being serious): Mikul if you've gotten bad enough to not recall how to harm Sheik you're a worry. Otherwise I'll give you the number one tactic against Sheik : Edge Hog! Don't care if Sheik will make it back - the landing lag means another smash back off the stage.

UD Moose: Roy's a 'strong guy' (sensors driving me nuts - can't even say alternative to naughty-donkey)...in theory. People who can make the dream a reality.....few and far between.

 

[Dekar289]

mm make sheik recover, me vs em is always me edgehogging, roll onto to stage, f-smash, rinse and repeat

then she tries to fair me off the ledge, which works once, but if the she tries again it's very dangerous if you predict it
edit: more accurately she tries to get me with the fair while i wavedash back onto the edge, but if i predict that, f-smash or d-tilt, bye shiek
with falcon you could dair

but yeah make her recover and knee, rinse repeat

 

[S.D]

Wobbling beats Peach. Just do that. The matchup is even when any grab IC's get converts to a wobble->KO.

Can't grab her though and it's never even it's like 80-20 or some BS. WD OOS maybe gets a grab against her um, f smash?

Shaz, any tips for the Falcon/Sheik matchup? Em keeps playing sheik to destroy my falcon lolol.

Also, come back to victoria with a copy of Fire Emblem. Let's find out how cheap brave sword karel is at near capped stats.

Tech chase. Win

 

[kupo]

mm make sheik recover, me vs em is always me edgehogging, roll onto to stage, f-smash, rinse and repeat

then she tries to fair me off the ledge, which works once, but if the she tries again it's very dangerous if you predict it
edit: more accurately she tries to get me with the fair while i wavedash back onto the edge, but if i predict that, f-smash or d-tilt, bye shiek
with falcon you could dair

but yeah make her recover and knee, rinse repeat

With Marth, I have to be a lot careful. Range is always an issue in regards to how I approach after recovery. But I think now I have the general idea as to how I'll fix my mistakes.

I think it's a matter of "how" to handle Sheik before dealing with recoveries. Mikul knows how. The question is the execution. Can you pull it off? I reckon YEHS!

p.s Mikul, I have a grudge cos I'm silly like that.

pps. I fall for your things during friendlies. I just SIGH and rage inside. My stupidity in the end. ;3

gg's though

 

[Nixernator]

Ok I'm extremely new to melee, just wondering what are the best grabs/grab followups at low, mid and high percents as CF. Can't really play much tho as I don't actually own the game, just kinda play at meets.

 

[MikulOnIce85]

Lol em. Don't spread the love spread the rage. ;3

 

[xXArrowXx]

k my friend is good now XD... thanks

how do i get up from the edge slowly again? XD same friend... XD

 

[Sirias]

Lol.

L2experiment. C:
... And learn.

 

[Cronos_Rainbow]

Dekar: Yes as you elaborated that's exactly what I mean. Good to see you know it...now if only you 'top' players would share some skillz around you'd find the scene gets stronger and so will you . Heck I'd even go so far as to reveal weaknesses you know you have so you're forced to improve there as people exploit them. Mine for instance are a lesser tech ability to the left due to controller setup, and I tend to gamble my second jump often.

Arrow: Erm...tilt the control stick...

SD: Best way to get a grabs to get grabs on any character are to shield grab then or to take advantage of the recoil period. Peach like some other characters has attributes that make this a little more of a challenge than usual, but it's not impossible. Play around and find what works for you.

Nixernator: This is unfortunately something I can't really help with. I suggest you play around with the matchups you consider important, and play around with the weight and fall-speed vs your grabs. Work out what works best for you at what percentages as it's really a matter of experience.

Sheik vs Marth (recovery):
Pester with needles while Marth's out of range of the stage...don't forget they exist as they're particularly useful for times like this. As Marth gets to the point of making for the edge/stage, don't forget the moment of inv. you get from the edge. Also keep in mind the shield abuse of Marth grabbing the edge, which even if it doesn't work puts you in a place to follow-up with a well-timed fair free of charge. Use the LOLchain also from time to time too if you're confident. Variety is key.

 

[xXArrowXx]

k thanks again

most of my time when my controller is plugged in, it holds up. how do i stop this???? lol

 

[unreon]

How do I beat Peach/Marth with Falco?

Peach's recovery is impossible to intercept.
Turtle has Marth's WD OOS down to an art...watch me get 4stock'd

 

[Pete278]

Would you recommend against playing a low tier character this late in the game's life, or is it still possible to be able to play well with one?

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

lol unreon, one tip is at low %.. dont use shine, instead go for an u-tilt, you can combo easier. Try to land your d-air so your behind the marth, or you can stay about 2 sword lengths from marth and just abuse lasorz for a while and wait...

 

[Sieg]

Would you recommend against playing a low tier character this late in the game's life, or is it still possible to be able to play well with one?

Unless you're willing to put massive amounts of time into the game, no.

Generally you'll only see Top tier and High tier being played these days by new players who are getting into the game.

 

[Pete278]

How massive is massive? I've been known to obsess over things.

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

say...4-5 years to be the best in Aus.. Specially if you pick a low tier.