Every interaction with falcon should be 70%. Chain grab x100, u air, (more than once if needed), nair. Dash dance a lot and if you notice him approaching you, if from above utilt into grab is easy. If from the side, shield grab or ftilt. It's how I beat Gahtzu.
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"Ask Not for Whom the Bell Tolls..." Game and Watch Matchup + Discussion
- Thread starter Juushichi
- Start date
jtm94
Smash Lord
There's a reason Darkrain won't play against Strong Bad's GnW using Falcon.
dtilt also goes into grab at 0 iirc and also hammer/nair.
dtilt also goes into grab at 0 iirc and also hammer/nair.
Shoto
Smash Apprentice
So just stiff approaches with f-tilt and u-tilt? I don't really enjoy approacing super aggresive players. But I'll try to play a bit more defensive in this match up and keep up consistent punishes.Thanks you two.
Last edited:
Paper Maribro
Smash Ace
So as part of a bet my friend decided to pick up Olimar and yesterday, destroyed me. I have no idea how to play against this character. Any suggestions? I could usually combo him to kill percent but actually killing him proved quite tough as all my setups knocked him too far for him to die. It was really frustrating.
jtm94
Smash Lord
I hate the character, good luck.
My friend told me, "Man GnW is soooo good, I can't do anything as Olimar." And I was struggling to hit him at all and dying from downthrow fair fair while DIing away at 50%. That was 3.02 though.
Respect his ledge attack it's dumb. He's just hard to hit, you have to play super on point because he can grab you over there. I would just space bairs to hit pikmin he threw at me, but I think dash dancing with dtilt and wavedashes may be better. Dtilt is fast and should hit Pikmin away if they are used to grab you.
Shockbound
Smash Apprentice
I played some friendlies against an Olimar main for the first time last night over Netplay and I have to say that I actually thought the matchup was a lot of fun. Granted, Netplay is Netplay and it's going to have its fair share of baddies (including me) but my matches against this guy felt really intense. I'm not sure how familiar he was with playing against G&W, but he told me that he was struggling a lot with the matchup.
I've provided the footage I recorded of the matches so that those of you who have never even heard of an Olimar can see what he's all about. I turned off my R button so that I can transition over to using L for everything, so I'll be missing loads of L-cancels. Also, I need to clarify that I'm a complete baddie. Please bear with my G&W for the time being, and feel free to give me tips.
Now that my johns are out of the way, here you go.
0:00:50 - 0:31:45 Mr. Game & Watch vs. Olimar
0:31:53 - 0:44:44 Mr. Game & Watch vs. Meta Knight
0:45:04 onwards Mr. Game & Watch vs. Zero Suit Samus (mostly)
And here's a bunch of words that I wrote.
YOUR OFFENSIVE OPTIONS:
The huge thing that I noticed about the Olimar matchup is that situations that would normally trade almost always end up in your favor thanks to G&W's lingering disjoint and the properties of Pikmin. Your hitboxes are always going to slam right through his Pikmin since they all have hurtboxes of their own, which will end up leaving you completely unharmed if the Pikmin dies. It will usually kill the Pikmin in question at the same time. You should be challenging every attack that he might whiff whenever possible; especially if it's an aerial. As long as you have a hitbox between the two of you then you are generally pretty safe from whatever he can swing at you with. Well-spaced aerials should prevent a lot of damage.
-STUFF ABOUT PIKMIN AND WHAT OLIMAR CAN DO WITH THEM BLAHBLAH-
The most valuable targets are his Blue and Purple Pikmin because they'll naturally stick around longer due to their higher stamina, meaning they have better chances of flowering. This doesn't mean you can't kill the other ones; you should definitely kill as many Pikmin as you can, but you should just have a special kind of hatred for Blue and Purple. Olimar has a lot of ways to punish you with Blues, such as with an extended grab range (the LONGEST grab in the game) coupled with some nasty kill throws and 0 BKB on his B-Air. Purples have absolutely stupid base KB and will kill you at 40 on a good day. He will be stockpiling these two types whenever you give him the chance, so don't just go running off after these Pikmin when you see him throw them since he'll just pick more while you're dealing with that. You should be challenging his aerials with N-Air so that you can build up damage on these Pikmin without killing them just yet; you'll be able to guarantee a kill on that Pikmin the next time Olimar tries to hit you with it, which leaves him open while he's still in the middle of his attack, which will let you start a really solid punish.
N-Air is your most valuable tool for killing Pikmin because it is your strongest aerial, dealing 17% damage. This not only kills a majority of Pikmin (Red, Yellow, White) in a single hit, but it also will remove every Pikmin that is attached to you via Olimar's Side-B. Purple Pikmin can't attach themselves to you at all, so the only ones that you'll have to worry about later will be Blue Pikmin. If you don't want to have to deal with one of those later, just use a DACUS away from Olimar (unless you think you can hit him with it) so that the Up-Smash can do 21% to the Blue and kill it right there. Up-Smash covers everything but your feet, so it won't work if that's where the Pikmin is stuck to; you'll just have to N-Air it off.
You'll need to constantly threaten Olimar or he'll start trying to refill his lineup. Dash dancing will not be effective for this because he will just throw Pikmin at you, so you need to keep hitboxes out constantly so that you can kill/deflect them. Use aerials to approach him one shorthop at a time until you are just outside of his grab range, then bait out his F-Smash or grab. His grab is pretty easy to react to, and you only need to jump to avoid it. It takes a while to execute too, so you could probably hit him with a N-Air before he gets the chance to do anything. If you're at low % and expecting the grab you can actually opt to just get hit by it and mash out while the Pikmin is carrying you back to Olimar.
Once you get a punish started on him, try really hard to end his stock by the end of it even if it seems unlikely to work. You won't get a chance to do this very often if Olimar is playing right, so you need to make it count. Getting him offstage is usually enough since you have way more options in that environment than he does.
YOUR DEFENSIVE OPTIONS:
You always need to have a hitbox out. As long as you have one out, Olimar cannot get past it since he cannot clank it except through tilts and dash attacks. You can even deflect his aerials (aerials are normally transcendent, but aerials don't normally have non-character hurtboxes attached) with any one of your hitboxes since you can remove that hitbox by killing the Pikmin he's attacking with. I'm actually pretty sure that the hitbox goes away as soon as the Pikmin takes any damage at all, fatal or otherwise.
If he tries to approach you with a dash attack at all, you can crouch cancel it and punish with a D-Tilt immediately.
You have the advantage when you are above him. Olimar's only response to your D-Air from above is to shield or get out of the way (he will probably shield) since he absolutely cannot challenge it with anything else, lest he kill his own Pikmin. He will have a tough time trying to juggle you with Up-Air and Up-Smash as long as your D-Air is out, so you should use it a lot when you are trying to return to the stage from above. N-Air during recovery will also throw him off of his game and usually put him in a bad spot, and good use of N-Air will keep Olimar afraid of trying to meteor you (I actually didn't even know he had a meteor until the 4th or 5th game).
When he's above you, Up-Air is rather risky to use immediately due to how meaty his D-Air is. Try throwing up-angled double-bacon at him to either hit him or bait out the D-Air (he'll try to swat it away). You can follow up with Up-B or Up-Air... or more bacon!
F-Tilt frequently in neutral to deflect any Pikmin he throws. He is not likely to just sit back and throw Pikmin at you to his hearts content if you move closer to him with each F-Tilt until he is at the ledge. Avoid using D-Tilt if the Pikmin is already on the ground; it won't kill it and it will send them super far upwards, which will just let them come back later. He's going to try something else once he realizes that Pikmin spamming isn't working out, and usually that something else takes him off of the ground and into your domain: the air. You should respond by challenging his aerials with double-bacon followed by N-Air.
YOUR RECOVERY OPTIONS:
It's borderline impossible for Olimar to interrupt your Up-B. If he tries to hit you out of it while you're recovering then he and/or his Pikmin is almost always going to get hit since your hitbox always stays above you while you are making your ascent, so a sweetspot should always happen unless Olimar is already on the ledge.
Do not double jump to the ledge. You need your hitbox to block his D-Air, which is a meteor with Ganon-like levels of power no matter what Pikmin he's using. Even if you meteor cancel it you'll probably end up further down than your Up-B will carry you back up with, but now that you're down a double jump you won't be making it back. Always Up-B directly to the ledge.
It's not impossible for him to hit you out of your Up-B with his D-Air, but the likelihood of him doing this decreases as you get closer and closer to the stage due to how G&W's hurtboxes are dispersed during the ascent. If he tried to go deep enough to interrupt your Up-B early then he'd be going beyond his capacity to safely make it back to the stage. Even if the hit goes through, if you conserved your double jump then you'd be making it back anyway.
I've mentioned this before in another thread, but this gif demonstrates an extremely powerful option that you can use against Olimar from the ledge. It doesn't use your double jump and it puts you above him so that you can use D-Air to return to the stage safely. Frame perfect ledge invincibility isn't really required for this since your hitbox is going to interrupt whatever he tries to hit you with anyway, but Olimar might actually be able to hit or grab you out of it since G&W's body is exposed from the side due to the hitbox being rather small.
Don't stay on that ledge for long though, his grab somehow reaches you from there even if you're still hanging on. He'll also manage to grab you if you fail to sweetspot, which is why you grab that ledge as soon as possible during your recovery. Remember, Olimar can't do anything beyond hogging to keep you from getting that sweetspot, so if you didn't get it then you messed up.
HIS OFFENSIVE OPTIONS:
There's specific zone above Olimar (about the same distance above him as the difference in height between the ground level and first level of platforms on Dreamland) that is extremely dangerous to linger in for too long. If you didn't have your D-Air out by the time you reached this zone, say hello to juggles for the next +50% of your life. As is true of most juggles against G&W, they usually don't last very long thanks to Up-B, but they can sure hurt a lot... if they don't kill you outright.
Olimar's combo variance is reliant on the Pikmin he's lined up for his aerials, so this starts to get really scary once he can end it with a Purple Pikmin. Purple F-Air is extremely dangerous because of how early it kills (55 BKB, Ganon's F-Air is 60 BKB to put that in perspective), as opposed to really dangerous for the other 4 types of F-Airs he has. F-Air into Purple F-Air offstage is a kill on pretty much everybody when Olimar hogs the ledge correctly. It's a kill on G&W when he's at 20%. Welcome to Olimar.
His setups for F-Air kills usually involve getting a throw off, so really make sure that you avoid getting grabbed. This sometimes happens after an Up-Air juggle, which will make you super dead. You can do something about this by DI'ing up. F-Air sends at the Sakurai Angle but it comes out really, really fast. He could easily hit you with it several times in a row.
Most of his combos can be escaped through the good ol' up and away DI while mashing Up-B.
HIS DEFENSIVE OPTIONS:
Olimar's shield is incredible. This is the one answer he has to everything that you do (except grab of course) and it's a very solid one. He can stay in it for a long time and still manage to not get stabbed through it due to its slow rate of decay relative to his size and how long it can grant him full-body coverage. This shield is what makes Olimar so hard to kill regardless of what % he's at since most kill moves are easily shieldable, but as this shield does not wear down easily, it could take a long time for one of these to connect.
This is why N-Air was my best friend for this matchup, as I could clip his shield with it and act with just enough time to jump over any F-Smash, D-Smash or grab he threw at me in response. It's possible to follow up with another N-Air afterwards.
Don't try to use B-Air on his shield. Against any other character, B-Air is pretty safe since at least 1 of your 6 hitboxes should stab, but like I said, the chances of you shield-stabbing Olimar are very slim. He'll be able to punish you as soon as you hit the ground.
Fortunately, shields are only usable while on the ground. If you can force Olimar to go aerial then this powerful option is taken away from him. If his shield is ever put dangerously low, he has the mobility to just run away from you for long enough to come back if he's patient enough to try. Most people aren't, though.
I don't really know enough about Olimar to give any more insight on his defenses. I know he's the only character in the game to wear a helmet all of the time, though. Smart.
HIS RECOVERY OPTIONS:
Aaaaaand this is why nobody plays Olimar.
He's got a tether. Tethers don't work in 3.5. Olimar's tether didn't even work in the first place so that just makes for an absolutely horrendous recovery. He can't airdodge into it because it's a B-move and not a Z-Air, and while that might not seem so different from Ivysaurs tether, it's also reliant on how many Pikmin actually decide to stay in his lineup when he gets sent offstage. Whistling is supposed to get his Pikmin back in line but it doesn't, and even if it did, that's more time that Olimar has to spend falling. There's not even a hitbox on this move when the game detects that there is a ledge anywhere above Olimar, so he gets gimped even if it did manage to work.
It's also his only recovery move. He's completely reliant on it every time he needs to recover.
So he's reliant on a single glitchy and unreliable move that utilizes a glitchy and unreliable recovery method that is inferior to other moves that use the same type of glitchy and unreliable game mechanic.
Just get to the ledge and get your free gimp. Finish your set, then go home and think about what you really accomplished today, champ.
He also gets a really dinky hop when he tries to pluck a Pikmin while midair, and it contributes to his recovery... I mean, anything would at this point.
/rant
I've provided the footage I recorded of the matches so that those of you who have never even heard of an Olimar can see what he's all about. I turned off my R button so that I can transition over to using L for everything, so I'll be missing loads of L-cancels. Also, I need to clarify that I'm a complete baddie. Please bear with my G&W for the time being, and feel free to give me tips.
Now that my johns are out of the way, here you go.
0:00:50 - 0:31:45 Mr. Game & Watch vs. Olimar
0:31:53 - 0:44:44 Mr. Game & Watch vs. Meta Knight
0:45:04 onwards Mr. Game & Watch vs. Zero Suit Samus (mostly)
And here's a bunch of words that I wrote.
YOUR OFFENSIVE OPTIONS:
The huge thing that I noticed about the Olimar matchup is that situations that would normally trade almost always end up in your favor thanks to G&W's lingering disjoint and the properties of Pikmin. Your hitboxes are always going to slam right through his Pikmin since they all have hurtboxes of their own, which will end up leaving you completely unharmed if the Pikmin dies. It will usually kill the Pikmin in question at the same time. You should be challenging every attack that he might whiff whenever possible; especially if it's an aerial. As long as you have a hitbox between the two of you then you are generally pretty safe from whatever he can swing at you with. Well-spaced aerials should prevent a lot of damage.
-STUFF ABOUT PIKMIN AND WHAT OLIMAR CAN DO WITH THEM BLAHBLAH-
Keep in mind that all Pikmin have nonrecoverable stamina that dictates how much damage they can take before dying. Killing Pikmin is a viable way of limiting Olimar's options, so it's important to know when their intangibility deactivates, what it takes to kill them, and what you get by killing them.
When a Pikmin stays alive for 15 seconds it will grow a bud in place of the leaf on its head (it will grow into a flower after another 15 seconds for increased effects). This means it will do a little bit more damage to you and it loses a significant amount of scaling knockback. If you let Olimar's Pikmin survive for long enough then he is going to be able to combo you more easily at higher %s and will end up getting a lot of damage off on you in a single interaction, so if you can kill them before they can transform then you can indirectly hurt his combo game. You will end up taking way less damage in the long run.
Each Pikmin type has a different stamina value:
Red: 14
Yellow: 17
Blue: 20
White: 10
Purple: 25
Depleting all of a Pikmin's stamina isn't the only way to get rid of it. If you can send it into the bottom or side blastzones then it will despawn. The reason I specified those is because a Pikmin will not die if it is sent off of the top blastzone. However, it will be out of Olimar's reach for a little while. He'll probably just replace it with a new one anyway when he gets the opportunity, but chances are that it won't be the one he wants.
If Olimar is performing an attack with a Pikmin, that Pikmin is vulnerable. As soon as a Pikmin is taken out of the lineup behind him it becomes tangible and will remain as such until it returns to it. If a Pikmin appears to be lagging behind the rest of Olimar's lineup, it is probably vulnerable.
When a Pikmin stays alive for 15 seconds it will grow a bud in place of the leaf on its head (it will grow into a flower after another 15 seconds for increased effects). This means it will do a little bit more damage to you and it loses a significant amount of scaling knockback. If you let Olimar's Pikmin survive for long enough then he is going to be able to combo you more easily at higher %s and will end up getting a lot of damage off on you in a single interaction, so if you can kill them before they can transform then you can indirectly hurt his combo game. You will end up taking way less damage in the long run.
Each Pikmin type has a different stamina value:
Red: 14
Yellow: 17
Blue: 20
White: 10
Purple: 25
Depleting all of a Pikmin's stamina isn't the only way to get rid of it. If you can send it into the bottom or side blastzones then it will despawn. The reason I specified those is because a Pikmin will not die if it is sent off of the top blastzone. However, it will be out of Olimar's reach for a little while. He'll probably just replace it with a new one anyway when he gets the opportunity, but chances are that it won't be the one he wants.
If Olimar is performing an attack with a Pikmin, that Pikmin is vulnerable. As soon as a Pikmin is taken out of the lineup behind him it becomes tangible and will remain as such until it returns to it. If a Pikmin appears to be lagging behind the rest of Olimar's lineup, it is probably vulnerable.
The most valuable targets are his Blue and Purple Pikmin because they'll naturally stick around longer due to their higher stamina, meaning they have better chances of flowering. This doesn't mean you can't kill the other ones; you should definitely kill as many Pikmin as you can, but you should just have a special kind of hatred for Blue and Purple. Olimar has a lot of ways to punish you with Blues, such as with an extended grab range (the LONGEST grab in the game) coupled with some nasty kill throws and 0 BKB on his B-Air. Purples have absolutely stupid base KB and will kill you at 40 on a good day. He will be stockpiling these two types whenever you give him the chance, so don't just go running off after these Pikmin when you see him throw them since he'll just pick more while you're dealing with that. You should be challenging his aerials with N-Air so that you can build up damage on these Pikmin without killing them just yet; you'll be able to guarantee a kill on that Pikmin the next time Olimar tries to hit you with it, which leaves him open while he's still in the middle of his attack, which will let you start a really solid punish.
N-Air is your most valuable tool for killing Pikmin because it is your strongest aerial, dealing 17% damage. This not only kills a majority of Pikmin (Red, Yellow, White) in a single hit, but it also will remove every Pikmin that is attached to you via Olimar's Side-B. Purple Pikmin can't attach themselves to you at all, so the only ones that you'll have to worry about later will be Blue Pikmin. If you don't want to have to deal with one of those later, just use a DACUS away from Olimar (unless you think you can hit him with it) so that the Up-Smash can do 21% to the Blue and kill it right there. Up-Smash covers everything but your feet, so it won't work if that's where the Pikmin is stuck to; you'll just have to N-Air it off.
You'll need to constantly threaten Olimar or he'll start trying to refill his lineup. Dash dancing will not be effective for this because he will just throw Pikmin at you, so you need to keep hitboxes out constantly so that you can kill/deflect them. Use aerials to approach him one shorthop at a time until you are just outside of his grab range, then bait out his F-Smash or grab. His grab is pretty easy to react to, and you only need to jump to avoid it. It takes a while to execute too, so you could probably hit him with a N-Air before he gets the chance to do anything. If you're at low % and expecting the grab you can actually opt to just get hit by it and mash out while the Pikmin is carrying you back to Olimar.
Once you get a punish started on him, try really hard to end his stock by the end of it even if it seems unlikely to work. You won't get a chance to do this very often if Olimar is playing right, so you need to make it count. Getting him offstage is usually enough since you have way more options in that environment than he does.
YOUR DEFENSIVE OPTIONS:
You always need to have a hitbox out. As long as you have one out, Olimar cannot get past it since he cannot clank it except through tilts and dash attacks. You can even deflect his aerials (aerials are normally transcendent, but aerials don't normally have non-character hurtboxes attached) with any one of your hitboxes since you can remove that hitbox by killing the Pikmin he's attacking with. I'm actually pretty sure that the hitbox goes away as soon as the Pikmin takes any damage at all, fatal or otherwise.
If he tries to approach you with a dash attack at all, you can crouch cancel it and punish with a D-Tilt immediately.
You have the advantage when you are above him. Olimar's only response to your D-Air from above is to shield or get out of the way (he will probably shield) since he absolutely cannot challenge it with anything else, lest he kill his own Pikmin. He will have a tough time trying to juggle you with Up-Air and Up-Smash as long as your D-Air is out, so you should use it a lot when you are trying to return to the stage from above. N-Air during recovery will also throw him off of his game and usually put him in a bad spot, and good use of N-Air will keep Olimar afraid of trying to meteor you (I actually didn't even know he had a meteor until the 4th or 5th game).
When he's above you, Up-Air is rather risky to use immediately due to how meaty his D-Air is. Try throwing up-angled double-bacon at him to either hit him or bait out the D-Air (he'll try to swat it away). You can follow up with Up-B or Up-Air... or more bacon!
F-Tilt frequently in neutral to deflect any Pikmin he throws. He is not likely to just sit back and throw Pikmin at you to his hearts content if you move closer to him with each F-Tilt until he is at the ledge. Avoid using D-Tilt if the Pikmin is already on the ground; it won't kill it and it will send them super far upwards, which will just let them come back later. He's going to try something else once he realizes that Pikmin spamming isn't working out, and usually that something else takes him off of the ground and into your domain: the air. You should respond by challenging his aerials with double-bacon followed by N-Air.
YOUR RECOVERY OPTIONS:
It's borderline impossible for Olimar to interrupt your Up-B. If he tries to hit you out of it while you're recovering then he and/or his Pikmin is almost always going to get hit since your hitbox always stays above you while you are making your ascent, so a sweetspot should always happen unless Olimar is already on the ledge.
Do not double jump to the ledge. You need your hitbox to block his D-Air, which is a meteor with Ganon-like levels of power no matter what Pikmin he's using. Even if you meteor cancel it you'll probably end up further down than your Up-B will carry you back up with, but now that you're down a double jump you won't be making it back. Always Up-B directly to the ledge.
It's not impossible for him to hit you out of your Up-B with his D-Air, but the likelihood of him doing this decreases as you get closer and closer to the stage due to how G&W's hurtboxes are dispersed during the ascent. If he tried to go deep enough to interrupt your Up-B early then he'd be going beyond his capacity to safely make it back to the stage. Even if the hit goes through, if you conserved your double jump then you'd be making it back anyway.
I've mentioned this before in another thread, but this gif demonstrates an extremely powerful option that you can use against Olimar from the ledge. It doesn't use your double jump and it puts you above him so that you can use D-Air to return to the stage safely. Frame perfect ledge invincibility isn't really required for this since your hitbox is going to interrupt whatever he tries to hit you with anyway, but Olimar might actually be able to hit or grab you out of it since G&W's body is exposed from the side due to the hitbox being rather small.
Don't stay on that ledge for long though, his grab somehow reaches you from there even if you're still hanging on. He'll also manage to grab you if you fail to sweetspot, which is why you grab that ledge as soon as possible during your recovery. Remember, Olimar can't do anything beyond hogging to keep you from getting that sweetspot, so if you didn't get it then you messed up.
HIS OFFENSIVE OPTIONS:
There's specific zone above Olimar (about the same distance above him as the difference in height between the ground level and first level of platforms on Dreamland) that is extremely dangerous to linger in for too long. If you didn't have your D-Air out by the time you reached this zone, say hello to juggles for the next +50% of your life. As is true of most juggles against G&W, they usually don't last very long thanks to Up-B, but they can sure hurt a lot... if they don't kill you outright.
Olimar's combo variance is reliant on the Pikmin he's lined up for his aerials, so this starts to get really scary once he can end it with a Purple Pikmin. Purple F-Air is extremely dangerous because of how early it kills (55 BKB, Ganon's F-Air is 60 BKB to put that in perspective), as opposed to really dangerous for the other 4 types of F-Airs he has. F-Air into Purple F-Air offstage is a kill on pretty much everybody when Olimar hogs the ledge correctly. It's a kill on G&W when he's at 20%. Welcome to Olimar.
His setups for F-Air kills usually involve getting a throw off, so really make sure that you avoid getting grabbed. This sometimes happens after an Up-Air juggle, which will make you super dead. You can do something about this by DI'ing up. F-Air sends at the Sakurai Angle but it comes out really, really fast. He could easily hit you with it several times in a row.
Most of his combos can be escaped through the good ol' up and away DI while mashing Up-B.
HIS DEFENSIVE OPTIONS:
Olimar's shield is incredible. This is the one answer he has to everything that you do (except grab of course) and it's a very solid one. He can stay in it for a long time and still manage to not get stabbed through it due to its slow rate of decay relative to his size and how long it can grant him full-body coverage. This shield is what makes Olimar so hard to kill regardless of what % he's at since most kill moves are easily shieldable, but as this shield does not wear down easily, it could take a long time for one of these to connect.
This is why N-Air was my best friend for this matchup, as I could clip his shield with it and act with just enough time to jump over any F-Smash, D-Smash or grab he threw at me in response. It's possible to follow up with another N-Air afterwards.
Don't try to use B-Air on his shield. Against any other character, B-Air is pretty safe since at least 1 of your 6 hitboxes should stab, but like I said, the chances of you shield-stabbing Olimar are very slim. He'll be able to punish you as soon as you hit the ground.
Fortunately, shields are only usable while on the ground. If you can force Olimar to go aerial then this powerful option is taken away from him. If his shield is ever put dangerously low, he has the mobility to just run away from you for long enough to come back if he's patient enough to try. Most people aren't, though.
I don't really know enough about Olimar to give any more insight on his defenses. I know he's the only character in the game to wear a helmet all of the time, though. Smart.
HIS RECOVERY OPTIONS:
Aaaaaand this is why nobody plays Olimar.
He's got a tether. Tethers don't work in 3.5. Olimar's tether didn't even work in the first place so that just makes for an absolutely horrendous recovery. He can't airdodge into it because it's a B-move and not a Z-Air, and while that might not seem so different from Ivysaurs tether, it's also reliant on how many Pikmin actually decide to stay in his lineup when he gets sent offstage. Whistling is supposed to get his Pikmin back in line but it doesn't, and even if it did, that's more time that Olimar has to spend falling. There's not even a hitbox on this move when the game detects that there is a ledge anywhere above Olimar, so he gets gimped even if it did manage to work.
It's also his only recovery move. He's completely reliant on it every time he needs to recover.
So he's reliant on a single glitchy and unreliable move that utilizes a glitchy and unreliable recovery method that is inferior to other moves that use the same type of glitchy and unreliable game mechanic.
Just get to the ledge and get your free gimp. Finish your set, then go home and think about what you really accomplished today, champ.
He also gets a really dinky hop when he tries to pluck a Pikmin while midair, and it contributes to his recovery... I mean, anything would at this point.
/rant
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jtm94
Smash Lord
Sooo. What do I do against Ganon?
Got double eliminated by him. I need really strong conviction in this MU because the chain grab really breaks my morale down HARD.
I think the answer is bacon, but my reaction is so bad I can't do anything if he wizard kicks me through it.
Got double eliminated by him. I need really strong conviction in this MU because the chain grab really breaks my morale down HARD.
I think the answer is bacon, but my reaction is so bad I can't do anything if he wizard kicks me through it.
Juushichi
sugoi ~ sugoi ~
fade back, treat the range of wiz kick like you would fair.
Shoto
Smash Apprentice
That chain grab he is is just so dumb. It totally breaks any momentum the match has.. I guess you can DI behind on the first throw and maybe get away, but if he's quick, thats an easy 30-70% on a character. Wish they would fix that.
Ganon has really low ground mobility. You should be ablew to move around him easily. Edge guards are a piece of cake with him. A nair or faitr off stage at 45% is the stock. Good luck man, hopefully someone more useful can help.
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jtm94
Smash Lord
I really appreciate the time regardless.
I really hate how downplayed he is like he is still a terrible character, but every time I interact with him he does 34% or more in 2 hits and I die off of the same throw no matter how I DI. I can't go in safely because he was punishing my bairs and all of his moves are safe on shield so he could bair and jab close to my shield and it would hit me every time. Then I can't get down through uair... I guess I'm just gonna play lame, but I hate having to change how I approach the game so severely against a character people say is terrible. It does force me to stop doing bad habits though. I guess I will just abuse bacon and grab from a distance.
I really hate how downplayed he is like he is still a terrible character, but every time I interact with him he does 34% or more in 2 hits and I die off of the same throw no matter how I DI. I can't go in safely because he was punishing my bairs and all of his moves are safe on shield so he could bair and jab close to my shield and it would hit me every time. Then I can't get down through uair... I guess I'm just gonna play lame, but I hate having to change how I approach the game so severely against a character people say is terrible. It does force me to stop doing bad habits though. I guess I will just abuse bacon and grab from a distance.
Shockbound
Smash Apprentice
what's a combo
jtm94
Smash Lord
The Punch is the only combo he needs.
what's a combo
Shoto
Smash Apprentice
Jab is mad safe, but its a tool he needs. I can understand why he has it. He has a guarenteed off of each off his d-throw regardless of your DI. I'm fine with playing G&W in this match-up and I usually abuse bacon to force an approach. Then just cut him off with u-tilt or f-tilit. Or any tilt pretty much. They'll usually clank and Ganon is terrible in neutral because of his low mobility. Start a combo and string it out, but if the combo might be unsafe, don't do it.
Good luck mane.
Good luck mane.
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GuccitheGreat
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2014
- Messages
- 16
Can you guys show me what I can work on with my my GnW any kind of criticism is much appreciated!
jtm94
Smash Lord
-The fair early on was not spaced well and really telegraphed.
-The dash attack on shield was super unsafe, but you could have boost grabbed him.
-Around 50 secs he does a getup attack, it was a perfect time for DACUS
-The dash attack on shield was super unsafe, but you could have boost grabbed him.
-Around 50 secs he does a getup attack, it was a perfect time for DACUS
felipe_9595
Smash Lord
I just notice that dash attacks literally beats EVERY single sweetspotted recovery in the game, even dumb ones like mario's.
LupinX
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2015
- Messages
- 226
Ya, I've noticed doing that as well. I played a mario main during friendlies and thought he didn't sweetspot it lol
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jtm94
Smash Lord
Hmm. I need to dash attack more. I hate Mario's recovery.
Do we have a Skype group for GnW? If not I'd definitely be interested in one. Even if they get off course half the time it's a neat way to talk about simple stuff.
Do we have a Skype group for GnW? If not I'd definitely be interested in one. Even if they get off course half the time it's a neat way to talk about simple stuff.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,560
yeah, we've got one. it's dead most of the time unfortunately.
Shoto
Smash Apprentice
Okay, so I faced off against Fatality's Ivysaur this Friday ( he didn't play falcon at all the entire tourney besides friendlies) and it's a pretty even match up. He won because he's a better player than me by far. The problem I had was with a Marth player there named DRy. I was already aware that this is a pretty bad matchup. Any tips? Or should I just avoid the and play another character? I got 3rd in the tournament by the way 
jtm94
Smash Lord
I had no idea. Is there a thread on it because I didn't see one? I guarantee it could be made active. If not I can talk smash for hours. I was just curious because it's been slow lately.
@
Shoto
I think it's doable for GnW. I really don't have enough evidence to go on though. bair seems to go into fair and I have an incredibly easy time going in on Marth. The only decent MArth's I've faced are Umbreon and Empty Sky and Umbreon usually feels hopeless, but sometimes I honestly think GnW can do it.The MU I've grown to hate now is Ganon. I hate facing him.
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Shoto
Smash Apprentice
I face a Ganon there. The Ganon kept going deep to kill me, so he took the first game off of me. After that I remembered what I told you about keeping him with bacon and f-tilt. I just locked him out and then won the next 2 games. If I don't like a match-up I usually just play defensive. I did fall victim to his d-throw though. Try to DI so that you go straight up. Then he can just get an up air which is better than a bair or fair.
Zelda is a fun match up though. I just bucket the Dins whenever they get put out. Killed him with the bucket at the end (which can't be reflected? I was confused there for a sec)
Zelda is a fun match up though. I just bucket the Dins whenever they get put out. Killed him with the bucket at the end (which can't be reflected? I was confused there for a sec)
Egadd
Smash Rookie
Marth is rough, in general Gdubs' advantage lies in his disjoints and any character that can challenge that can throw off his game. Honestly you have to beat Marth at his own game: spaced dtilts and dash dances. More aggressive marths will attempt to move towards you with the dd, and usually as long as you can pull them in you can wd back dtilt, which sets up for some good combos, or at least an advantageous situation. Once you're under marth there's not a lot he can do, as long as you're tricky with your movement he can't catch you with the sword. Forcing marth to bat away the bacon with fair can setup for either uair or utilt depending on where he is, but if you're too slow he'll try and bat you away as well.
Ganon sort of sucks for gdubs as well, but gdubs gets mad combos off on ganon whiffs. He can't really work around the bacon without nairing into you, so putting on the aggravation with runaway rar double bacon can keep ganon moving. dtilt is a little less useful unless the opportunity is available, especially since crouch canceling is far less useful. When I'm getting chaingrabbed I've noticed that mashing upb usually does the trick, no more than two grabs before I'm out of there. When you're above ganon it can be tricky to get back down, and this is where ganon excels in the matchup. He's going to try to space you out with uairs that outspace your dair, what I would suggest doing is attempt to come down on the side and snag him with bair, which should at the least give you a little time to get out of the way. Fair is solid in the neutral here, more often than not your fair will clock him upside the head even when he's got an aerial out. Never challenge the wizkick, attempt to mixup techs if he goes for the sideb-wizkick combo, though teching in place is just asking for an utilt.
Ganon sort of sucks for gdubs as well, but gdubs gets mad combos off on ganon whiffs. He can't really work around the bacon without nairing into you, so putting on the aggravation with runaway rar double bacon can keep ganon moving. dtilt is a little less useful unless the opportunity is available, especially since crouch canceling is far less useful. When I'm getting chaingrabbed I've noticed that mashing upb usually does the trick, no more than two grabs before I'm out of there. When you're above ganon it can be tricky to get back down, and this is where ganon excels in the matchup. He's going to try to space you out with uairs that outspace your dair, what I would suggest doing is attempt to come down on the side and snag him with bair, which should at the least give you a little time to get out of the way. Fair is solid in the neutral here, more often than not your fair will clock him upside the head even when he's got an aerial out. Never challenge the wizkick, attempt to mixup techs if he goes for the sideb-wizkick combo, though teching in place is just asking for an utilt.
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- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,560
pm me your skype and i'll add yaI had no idea. Is there a thread on it because I didn't see one? I guarantee it could be made active. If not I can talk smash for hours. I was just curious because it's been slow lately.
@
The MU I've grown to hate now is Ganon. I hate facing him.
jtm94
Smash Lord
Gah. I'm so garbage against Ganon. It really hurts because I can't go in like I'd imagine and I really don't like his combo weight + his tech roll is GOD. I'm gonna try being in there, and if GnW can't do it my Sheik will. I really think it;s my mindset and self-defeatist attitude.
Anyone else want in on the GnW Skype group??
Anyone else want in on the GnW Skype group??
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Hamman88
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2013
- Messages
- 37
Yeah put me in, no guarantee I'll be able to use it frequently, ill PM you my skype
felipe_9595
Smash Lord
Can you add me too pls, NyxTheShield, thanks
jtm94
Smash Lord
Request sent.
ROB is a big bully and he makes my GnW sad.
ROB is a big bully and he makes my GnW sad.
Shockbound
Smash Apprentice
I'd like to join too; my Skype name is the same as this one.
Mr. Fish
Smash Cadet
I'll join in on that Skype call. My skype is icandrownafish
jtm94
Smash Lord
We growing! I sent them all.
jtm94
Smash Lord
run around and bacon.
I played one 3 weeks ago in a few sets at locals and he wasn't bad, but he only beat me in 1 game. You need to be lame, not commit to high endlag moves in neutral, jab is an amazingly quick disjoint to stuff Puff and leads into smash attacks, dtilt KOs at like 70, bacon is hard for her to deal with and easy for us to put out.
I played one 3 weeks ago in a few sets at locals and he wasn't bad, but he only beat me in 1 game. You need to be lame, not commit to high endlag moves in neutral, jab is an amazingly quick disjoint to stuff Puff and leads into smash attacks, dtilt KOs at like 70, bacon is hard for her to deal with and easy for us to put out.
Mr. Fish
Smash Cadet
So, can anyone give me advice on the Marth matchup? The neutral is tough, but what really gets me is the chain throws into f-smash. I got killed at extremely low percent from tippers at the edge of the stage. Am I just dumb when it comes to DI or is there something I don't know about?
jtm94
Smash Lord
at low % in my experience DI out leads into tipper so DI in the first few times, or mix it up to avoid the regrab hopefully. DI out and down, and the DI in to avoid fsmash if you find yourself getting hit by it.
Fastfall single bacon safely is good against Marth, it's honestly very tough.
Fastfall single bacon safely is good against Marth, it's honestly very tough.
Mr. Fish
Smash Cadet
Yeah, I've gotten 2nd the past three tournaments to a Falcon/Marth dual main. I started getting the Falcon match up and then he switches to Marth and I just got F throw F throw F smashed.
Prioritized
Smash Cadet
Can I get in on that Skype group? Skype: jacob.brooks22
jtm94
Smash Lord
Done for you.
TIL while practicing SDI teching that it's impossible to go max distance with GnW's up b using the main stick, but if you hit the c stick in the direction you want to go right after up b, you go max distance.
Gfy: http://gfycat.com/TatteredCornyChrysomelid
Gfy: http://gfycat.com/TatteredCornyChrysomelid