"Ask Not for Whom the Bell Tolls..." Game and Watch Matchup + Discussion

[shapular]

Because they're different games that offer different things? o_O Why is practicing a game that will still be widely popular as a tournament game be a waste of time?

My bad, I guess you were under the impression that I play PM because I like it. I really just play it because people in my city play it and it's not Melee. I actually hated it until 3.0 came out and it's pretty much been a love/hate relationship since then.

 

[jtm94]

That isn't a good reason to play it.

Of my available characters I would most likely go Sheik vs Peach. I would also go Sheik vs Marth and Link because they are both pretty bad. Maybe even Ivy now because she just seems like a cheesier Marth that we can't edgeguard. It can be done, but it feels up to them messing up instead of us being rewarded for trying to gimp.

Roy feels very tedious too because CCing into his non crouchable hurts. At the same time we can actually do a lot of stuff to him and upthrow to nair is basically KO at > 50%

 

[shapular]

That isn't a good reason to play it.

It's not like I don't enjoy playing PM. I've gone years without having a scene in my town, so I'd play Melee or 64 or even Brawl- if it meant being able to play with other people. It's just that sometimes it's more frustrating than fun (especially when playing stupid characters like Fox or Mewtwo).

 

[jtm94]

I know the feel, but with characters like Diddy.

Does anyone have really good Diddy MU experience? I've faced mediocre Diddy's with my GnW and they gave me WAY more struggle than I would like. I actually used to play Diddy myself and my item game is pretty solid, but his recovery is such a pain. dtilt timed right can kinda take care of him, but it gets tedious and he will eventually go high.

 

[shapular]

I played a game against Player-1. Pretty sure I got three-stocked. I wasn't warmed up though so maybe I could have done better.

 

[Artimus]

I have a set vs UTDZac somewhere that was halfway decent.

 

[Soft Serve]

I know the feel, but with characters like Diddy.

Does anyone have really good Diddy MU experience? I've faced mediocre Diddy's with my GnW and they gave me WAY more struggle than I would like. I actually used to play Diddy myself and my item game is pretty solid, but his recovery is such a pain. dtilt timed right can kinda take care of him, but it gets tedious and he will eventually go high.

I had a huge amount of diddy exp because I used to main him and played vs our other local Diddy player Hashtag, but hashtag dropped off the face of the world so I haven't played against diddy as GnW in like a year.
I wouldn't want to do the GnW/Diddy MU. I think the only saving graces GnW has in it is up-bing out of DI traps, disjoints on nair/fair to intercept up-b, and CC D-tilt. Diddy's only bad MU's are other characters fighting for top 5 and then marth. I think its probably like 60/40 for diddy or better. Diddy is combo food so GnW can demolish him if you get a string in, but its hard to stick to Diddy and pressure him from pulling bananas/ setting up stage control when Diddy is much faster and Bacon doesn't fly low enough to interupt banana pulls.

 

[Yung Mei]

I know the feel, but with characters like Diddy.

Does anyone have really good Diddy MU experience? I've faced mediocre Diddy's with my GnW and they gave me WAY more struggle than I would like. I actually used to play Diddy myself and my item game is pretty solid, but his recovery is such a pain. dtilt timed right can kinda take care of him, but it gets tedious and he will eventually go high.

i practiced this matchup a lot just so i could beat 2 local diddys here in wa

basically, how i play this matchup is don't focus hard on bananas, they distract you from diddy. If you can, try and carry a banana with you, but mixup where you throw it, you can also use them as a distraction. GNW has a good glide toss iirc, use it to your advantage.
I haven't played this matchup ina long time, but some other things i suggest would be to rack up damage fast at early percents using stuff like gatling->nair, upb combos, and bacons.
you can use bacons to force him to try and recover high if he tries to sweet spot the ledge. One thing i was able to force a couple times, was as diddy charges his upb, hold the ledge to try and get him to recover high, jump onstage->breverse bacon (hits most of the time, sometimes itll miss or youll hit the ground before the bacon comes out), bacon hits and diddy falls into a tilt or smash attack. dAir beats some of diddys aerials IIRC, but i cant remember which ones exactly.

i disagree with ^, i feel the matchup is even instead of diddys favor.

 

[jtm94]

In my experience I don't think Marth beats Diddy, only other characters contending for top 5 as you said.
Marth's full-spaced tipper trades with Diddy Kong's UpB, it's ridiculous. I'm also not a very good Marth, but I get matching feelings from Umbreon. Ivy may be able to match Diddy with her obtuse disjoint.

Iirc even ftilt will trade with a bold UpB, you just have to keep at it. I honestly don't know what to do in the Diddy MU, it feels very uphill as GnW. Item play doesn't even help much. He's a semi fastfaller so it is very possible to abuse throws into nair/hammers for early KOs. At the edge times are tough though.

 

[Paper Maribro]

Hey guys,

Met up with some people a couple of days ago and played some 1v1s with Game and Watch and utterly surprised myself at how well I did. Considering I hadn't played Project M in months, I still managed to beat everyone there at least once and played against Marios, a Toon Link, a Sheik and a guy that played Zelda, CF and Marth (only beat his CF once, rest lost to every time). Definitely confirmed to me that he struggles against sword users though so I was wondering if anyone could suggest a good back up to have in a matchup like Marth, Tink and Roy?

I have to say though, Game and Watch's combo game is scary, his aerials just keep juggling and his dash attack is just impeccable. Also got into the habit of using his tilts and man, I adore the chair simply because it's powerful (killed a Marth with it but can't remember the percent) and it provides a great option for a foe charging in at you. Didn't get too many opportunities to use the down-tilt which was disappointing.

 

[Joshua Tenner]

get PM frame data, this aint melee GNW

These images were in the PM thread! Wtf.

 

[jtm94]

Was a solid GnW at Big House. He had impecable movement, but he lost to Zard I think? when he started making questionable decisions. I feel like we can go even with big characters.

Talked to Bidoof briefly. His GnW advice is always use bacon when you can't get punished for it, but don't use it when you potentially can. ALWAYS angle bacon up or down.

 

[Artimus]

Sword characters require us to WD OoS a lot and d-tilt. Do that and youll be okay.

 

[shapular]

Sword characters require us to WD OoS a lot and d-tilt. Do that and youll be okay.

I thought I was in one of the Wii Fit Trainer threads when I read this and I was like, "...what?"

 

[DarkStarStorm]

Was a solid GnW at Big House. He had impecable movement, but he lost to Zard I think? when he started making questionable decisions. I feel like we can go even with big characters.

Talked to Bidoof briefly. His GnW advice is always use bacon when you can't get punished for it, but don't use it when you potentially can. ALWAYS angle bacon up or down.

I'm having trouble b-reversing bacon in a short hop without reversing momentum. Tips?

 

[Metmetm3t]

Let the stick return to neutral before you press B.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

Let the stick return to neutral before you press B.

It's still hard to do and still manage to squeeze two bacon into one short-hop. I find it easier but less effective to just RAR a b-reversed bacon...

 

[shapular]

The way I started doing it is not to mash the stick the other way and let it go, but to tilt the stick very slightly in the other direction and gently return it to neutral. I don't remember if you even have to return it to neutral for it to not register as a side B. It's called a turnaround B, by the way.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

The way I started doing it is not to mash the stick the other way and let it go, but to tilt the stick very slightly in the other direction and gently return it to neutral. I don't remember if you even have to return it to neutral for it to not register as a side B. It's called a turnaround B, by the way.

Thanks! It's very hard considering you have only a few frames to jump-tilt the control stick-throw out a bacon and still have enough time to launch two in a short hop. I find it very challenging!

 

[jtm94]

I'm having a hard time angling bacon always up or down, but it is much more useful. My friends who just run under the bacon run into it when I send it lower and sending it up covers plats VERY well. Get this.. angling bacon up or down always sends double bacon at the same trajectory from what I've noticed so it's that much better, though a pain.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

I'm having a hard time angling bacon always up or down, but it is much more useful. My friends who just run under the bacon run into it when I send it lower and sending it up covers plats VERY well. Get this.. angling bacon up or down always sends double bacon at the same trajectory from what I've noticed so it's that much better, though a pain.

Could you elaborate on that last sentence?

 

[jtm94]

I haven't played in a day or so, but after what Bidoof told me I was trying to get Bacon angled upwards by... Shorthop>NeutralB>Hold up immediately after NeutralB. I got it 3 times in a row and EVERY time it shot the 2 bacon exactly like the previous times. They both don't share the same path, but rather the pattern of the 2 bacon is the same and I found the same for down angled bacon. What this means is.... we can finally aim the bacon instead of firing it randomly. Other people have brought it up and I remember SB saying something about it after a comment wanting bacon with a fixed path.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

I haven't played in a day or so, but after what Bidoof told me I was trying to get Bacon angled upwards by... Shorthop>NeutralB>Hold up immediately after NeutralB. I got it 3 times in a row and EVERY time it shot the 2 bacon exactly like the previous times. They both don't share the same path, but rather the pattern of the 2 bacon is the same and I found the same for down angled bacon. What this means is.... we can finally aim the bacon instead of firing it randomly. Other people have brought it up and I remember SB saying something about it after a comment wanting bacon with a fixed path.

Now I get it.

 

[MrLul]

Damn, what do you do against Lucas and Link's projectiles?

 

[DarkStarStorm]

Damn, what do you do against Lucas and Link's projectiles?

Lose lol. Lucas is one of those MUs where you just run the the whole time and punish him for overextending. As for Link...Wait for 3.5 to come out and then fight him XD.

 

[shapular]

Damn, what do you do against Lucas and Link's projectiles?

You quit PM and play Smash 4.

 

[MrLul]

You quit PM and play Smash 4.

But Smash4 is 2slow4me.
Little mac nair is fun tho.

 

[Sandshadow]

Hey, does anyone have any idea how to deal with the roy matchup? I was taken out of a tournament yesterday by one. I feel as though the matchup is all around tough. I found that his combo game on G&W is really good, and that he can just edge guard G&W really well.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

Hey, does anyone have any idea how to deal with the roy matchup? I was taken out of a tournament yesterday by one. I feel as though the matchup is all around tough. I found that his combo game on G&W is really good, and that he can just edge guard G&W really well.

I find it hard as well, angling bacon can would, but I just find Roy's combo game too hard to work around with G&W.

 

[shapular]

Hey, does anyone have any idea how to deal with the roy matchup? I was taken out of a tournament yesterday by one. I feel as though the matchup is all around tough. I found that his combo game on G&W is really good, and that he can just edge guard G&W really well.

Get him offstage, dtilt, spam taunt cancels because he's dead.

 

[Sandshadow]

Also what stages should i take characters like marth and roy to? Flatter stages like FD and Smashville, or should i take em to somewhere like yoshis or battlefield.

 

[shapular]

Avoid Yoshi's against Marth. I prefer to take him to something like Dreamland 64 or Skyworld where he can't get free tipper smashes and you have room to escape his juggles. I don't know about Roy. I'd just take him somewhere I felt comfortable.

 

[Metmetm3t]

Flat stages vs Marth and Roy is a bad idea. They dominate us when we are forced to approach them directly.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

Avoid Yoshi's against Marth. I prefer to take him to something like Dreamland 64 or Skyworld where he can't get free tipper smashes and you have room to escape his juggles. I don't know about Roy. I'd just take him somewhere I felt comfortable.

What do you do to edgeguard them? Also if you cannot approach them what do you suggest?

 

[shapular]

What do you do to edgeguard them? Also if you cannot approach them what do you suggest?

Dtilt wrecks them (particularly Roy) if they don't sweetspot. It's kind of hard other than that, but you can try jumping behind them before they up B and knocking them into the stage with fair or nair or even bair.

 

[Metmetm3t]

Marth's Up-B can sometimes be CC'd but Roy's can't. So if the Roy is decent there is no way you'll ever dtilt him because you have to respect his hitboxes too much. The best thing to do is bait out all of their options (double jump, side-b stall). They can spend a surprising amount of time below the stage so it's easy to get over zealous and try to cut them off directly.

 

[Sandshadow]

How about that neutral game though. I couldnt seem to get stag control, I always was Up-specialing away and couldnt get a downtilt in. just sit back and bacon?

Another thing I found was that Game and Watch vs Meta Knight isnt too hard of a match. I actually liked taking him to FD.

 

[Metmetm3t]

If you are going to beat Marth you have to outplay him in neutral. And by that I mean you have to use every option available to you to out maneuver him and find your openings. The only thing that will get you there is practicing lots of dash dancing, wave landing, wave dashing out of shield, RAR bair etc. Roy is a little easier because his weight allows you to combo him harder and therefore you need less openings.

Spaceing Down tilt or Bacon is only the beginning of learning how to play this game.

 

[shapular]

Just use a different character. It's not worth trying to use G&W against Marth. Or better yet, just give up this joke mod and play Smash 4 instead.

 

[Metmetm3t]

Just use a different character. It's not worth trying to use G&W against Marth. Or better yet, just give up this joke mod and play Smash 4 instead.

This thread really isn't a platform for uninvited personal opinions. It's for giving constructive answers to questions about G&W in Project M. Please take your haterade elsewhere.