Q&A Ask Mango Falcon Questions =D and other things

[Anand]

You could try ASDI down while grabbing, then just grab again (or maybe gentleman) if they jab you. I don't really know, just throwing out some of the common counters to random jabs.

 

[RvlvRBobcat]

Mango, how come your better than every other falcon main and falcon is like....... your 4th best character?

 

[Voltz]

Mango, how come your better than every other falcon main and falcon is like....... your 4th best character?

Aliens and fairies. :DDD

 

[_wzrd]

^^cuz mango is a better player. bam!
& all his chars are pretty close in skill level - but falcon is like the 4th best character he plays (fox falco jiggs)

 

[ToxicReflection]

what should i do when im under shield pressure? any other options besides rolling or wavedashing out of shield?

 

[iRobinhoood]

Nair and Uair are your fastest options oos. Uair hits one frame earlier(6) than Nair(7). Some attacks on my shield I like to Dair oos because of the greater reward for punishment/followups. Specifically a spacey dash attack as long as I'm fast enough to react to it otherwise you'll get utilted.

 

[ToxicReflection]

your choice of aerial is dependent upon the situation at that given moment, but what if i dont have the luxury of performing an aerial oos. if my opponent is pressuring my shield and i dont have the proper spacing to get off an aerial without getting tilted(assuming we're still talking about spaceys). my shield is getting jabbed/tilted, then shffling oos doesnt seem effective as im subject to another tilt. Dair takes to long to come out, Uair is ineffective oos(in this situation). so would nair be my only option if spaced properly? (besides WD or rolling oos.)

 

[ShrieK1295]

Falcons oos options are poop. Try not to shield, pay attention to their pressure, try to look to wd out, buffer rolls when you can, and dair if you have a read. Don't try to come up with fancy options because it's probably a waste of time. Nair and uair can work, but any attack out of shield is generally going to be risky

 

[Ziodyne]

iirc, stomp OOS is only countered by utilt and aerial -> aerial, though hard-countered viciously at that
aerials out of shield are a good way to keep your opponent aware that you have other options, so they should tread a little more carefully around your shield

having said that, WD OOS and roll are your best answers to shield pressure afaik

 

[Airrider]

Is there any guide to when i should upthrow or downthrow different characters into a knee. Also, what are some of my best options out of downthrow?

 

[Amaya]

, I've been playing Diakonos and a bunch of marth's lately, I was wondering how you can essentially improve in that match up, what kind of setups work best? What is there to look for when fighting him? I've been getting pooped on lately aha.

 

[Windrose]

Stomp out of shield can beat up tilt if you space it correctly vs space animals, don't fast fall the stomp. The reward is so high for medium risk.

Also if they up tilt your shield you can just get out easily, there is a lot of lag in up tilt unlike shine.

If they don't space properly then you can just shield grab too. Otherwise buffer roll is pretty good. Falcon has decent roll

 

[Ziodyne]

Is there any guide to when i should upthrow or downthrow different characters into a knee. Also, what are some of my best options out of downthrow?

http://smashboards.com/threads/74541/

regarding downthrow: asking for specific characters would be good.

against fox/falco, it's all about techchases at lower percents. you can learn how to techchase fox on reaction off grabs alone, i've heard s2j say though that against falco, you need uthrow for reaction -> regrab techchases. once you catch on to their habits (or at least, regrab them so much they just resort to tech in place or purposely miss their tech), techchase into knees/stomps.

against marth/sheik, downthrow can lead to pseudo-chaingrabs when they DI in or techchases when they DI out (only at like 0-15% though). At higher percents, dthrow can lead to nairs (lower %), uairs (mid%), and knees (higher %).

against jiggs/peach, dthrow -> aerial in general. kinda follows the same principle as vs. marth/sheik, except i rarely look for regrabs (i think dthrow -> grab works on peach at lower percents if she DIs away). do the same general thing, probably a lot less nairs than uairs, and ur combos generally start and end earlier.

 

[Airrider]

Thank you.

 

[enCouRaging Bear]

lol mango where are you?
people other than you are answering questions in here

 

[mas_torque]

edited: what are some of the most effective approaches at low percent in neutral game?

 

[Voltz]

À Mango: Où êtes-vous?

 

[SCC_Cone]

Mango, how do you get better vs. spotdodging? Specifically, I have a Fox friend that has learned my tricks and now spotdodges a lot to cover my grab game, any advice?

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Yo what up falcon boards I'm a ganon player trying to pick up falcon... Yea I realize all the ****ty matchups are still ****ty, but I need some way to beat characters like sheik and falco.

So here's the deal, I'm used to murdering falcons on the regular with ganon because almost everybody at my school plays some form of falcon , so I get how falcon works for the most part (lots of dash dance, lotta grabs, hitting people at the very last part of their hitstun to continue combos, etc).

But is there anything a decent ganon player (I only very recently became good at this game) should know when picking up falcon?

Oh and how do you gentleman? I've been faking it and either grabbing after the second jab if they're shielding it (actually super legit!) Or using raptor boost or something if they don't shield it lol. But once they realize I'm only doing this because I can't gentleman instead of because I'm a genius... I'll probably get messed up whenever I throw out a jab.

And yo, to the dude that's having trouble with spot dodges, that is like a gift from god... seriously. Like I love it with ganon. If you know he's gonna spot dodge, don't grab! Just knee/stomp/do whatever the hell you feel like (fsmash, raptor boost, or even falcon kick if you wanna teach him to stop spot dodging lol).

 

[Ziodyne]

Mango, how do you get better vs. spotdodging? Specifically, I have a Fox friend that has learned my tricks and now spotdodges a lot to cover my grab game, any advice?

get better at not always going for grabs
spot dodges loses hard to delayed aerials or just waiting in front of the spot dodge
if you're tech chasing him and you're pretty sure you're not going to make it in time to regrab him, why not dash dance in front of him and see how he reacts?

if he spot dodges, you get a free grab. if he keeps spot dodging, try throwing in some delayed knees, which will **** him up badly because he's DIing down lol.

Yo what up falcon boards I'm a ganon player trying to pick up falcon... Yea I realize all the ****ty matchups are still ****ty, but I need some way to beat characters like sheik and falco.

So here's the deal, I'm used to murdering falcons on the regular with ganon because almost everybody at my school plays some form of falcon , so I get how falcon works for the most part (lots of dash dance, lotta grabs, hitting people at the very last part of their hitstun to continue combos, etc).

But is there anything a decent ganon player (I only very recently became good at this game) should know when picking up falcon?

Oh and how do you gentleman? I've been faking it and either grabbing after the second jab if they're shielding it (actually super legit!) Or using raptor boost or something if they don't shield it lol. But once they realize I'm only doing this because I can't gentleman instead of because I'm a genius... I'll probably get messed up whenever I throw out a jab.

vague question gets vague answer, you don't need to do anything special besides play the character if you wanna learn him lol, ask questions about specific stuff if you get stuck

like the second question you ask, there are plenty of methods to gentleman and the one I usually notice is a-a- buffer action between second and third jab - hold a. so basically, in the middle of your initial jabs, you would press and hold L, R, or a direction on the control stick, and then hold A and the extra button press until you see the animation for the gentleman knee end

i think there are other methods to do it, i think it's possible to do a gentleman without buffering something, but the timing is probably very different and i have no clue how to do it

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Wasn't that vague dude, but I appreciate the response nonetheless. Maybe if I rephrased it... What advice would you give to a newcomer falcon? What tech skills would you recommend I practice? What should I work on in a match (i.e. dash dance, my grab game, etc.) Thanks for the gentleman thing tho, I got you on that. Next time I pick up a controller, it's falcon time.

 

[Ziodyne]

It is pretty vague dude lol

Melee's a deep game, so if you ask for general advice like that, it's hard to respond with a good answer. If you ask generally what you need to work on, I'd tell you "everything" lol
So yeah, if you're practicing Falcon, just practice everything and anything Falcon can do. I guess a good rule of thumb though when using any character is to learn how to be as quick as possible with the character you're using and also learn how to be flexible with your character, so practice mixing up SHFFL timings, work on moving as fast as you can out of SHFFL's or wavedashes, practice platform movement, platform drops, anything you can really think of to speed up your game or make it trickier.

 

[Captain_Pr0n]

falcons best options if u made the mistake of shielding when ur opponent wanted u to is patience and mix-ups. use light shield and shield di to get urself into the proper spacing for whatever it is u want to do. Other then the options already mentioned full hopping is a decent option and using platforms out of shield. Honestly, if they're at like 120% or something ridiculous space an unexpected upB OOS for great justice

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Hm yea. So just the basics of the character, in other words. I guess that's understandable. I was hoping for something a liiiiittle more specific. For example, if somebody wanted to take up ganon, I would tell them to learn the uair spike, get comfortable with perfect wavelands, and simple combos like jab>grab/dtilt. But nothing I can't figure out for myself

Thanks dawg

 

[bertbusdriver]

Joe:

You should be able to tech chase regrab consistently on the fast fallers when they pick the roll option. Wavedash towards where they hit the ground then dash dance and jc grab as illustrated here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bCytmp9QYCk#t=132s (mine was a little slow, pretty sure he would have gotten out of one of these if he'd buffered a roll or spotdodge. a well timed shine probably too)

Get accustomed to connecting the stomp knee even if they smash DI hard in one direction.

Being able to get grabs off of low-mid percent nair/fair/low-uair is pretty crucial. Also, general aerial spacing.

for the gentleman, the falcon social thread just reposted Magus' post about it's on the most recent page or 2. Your first 2 jabs should be hella fast, remember to input a dash while still holding the 3rd A press. It's kinda weird but you'll pick it up fast enough. A common mistake for me is when I start to lost confidence in my gentleman, I input the first 2 jabs slower, and my rhythm gets totally outta wack.

I'll help you at EVO, kiddo

edit: read the index thread for answers to the frequently asked questions about falcon: http://smashboards.com/threads/the-falcon-index-thread-new-post-of-the-week-by-magus.307911/

 

[SCC_Cone]

Thanks for the advice, on occasion I can bait my friend to spotdodge and I get a knee, and he is indeed DI-ing down and it completely destroys that stock, great advice, I'll keep working on it!

 

[PseudoTurtle]

SCC, no problem dude. Forgot to mention how beneficial the downward Di is as well when they spot dodge. Knee plus bad di = one loss of stock.

Hey Kevin, you are the man for helping me out, thanks. I told you I'd take up falcon in your honor! Lol. Dunno why I didn't just ask you (or anyone else at uiuc) in the first place, but great advice. I'm mainly taking up falcon for the fast fallers. I'm sick of fighting fox with ganon -.-

 

[MaPow]

Hey, I've got a money match with my friend this week, and he is going to use his ganon against my falcon. Does anyone have any advice on that matchup? We are both somewhat new to the competitive scene.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Lol dude you are so lucky I'm looking at this thread now. Ok ganon falcon is a good matchup for falcon, but don't just assume you're gonna win- I'm a ganon main and I tend to do extremely well vs falcon because falcon has a very predictable playstyle... You gotta admit, dash dance nair/grab isn't exactly hard to predict.

anyway, here's what you need to know about ganon. His moves come out fast, and have low ending lag and even low lag when l-cancelled. Now, I said low lag, not no lag. A character as fast as falcon can definitely get in after, say, a missed fair. If you dash dance a bit, he misses his fair, just run up and grab.

ok matchup starts vs ganon. His hitboxes are gigantic. Basically, you can't hit him when he has a hitbox out, especially if he's facing away from you- that bair could nullify the explosion of a nuclear bomb if spaced correctly. BUT if he throws out a hitbox and doesn't hit anything, this gives you your opportunity. Nair is an excellent choice for stuffing his areal approaches. As is uair. As for when ganon is on the ground, this is where most falcons screw up. They approach with their nair, and ganon crouch cancels it into a grab. Ganons love grabs, so avoid this. If the ganon is the smarter type that doesn't just throw out reckless areals, you have to trick him into getting off the ground OR getting him into a position where he gets grabbed. Grabs are absolutely essential on both sides of the matchup, especially for falcon.

some combos you should learn:
Nair into grab at low percents
knee to grab, low percent
tech chase regrab
upthrow knee at mid to high percents
if you get a stomp, grab him out of it, if percent is low or knee him out of it if percent is high

edge guarding is simple, ganon sucks. Utilt If he recovers below stage. Knee him out of his wiz kick recovery if in range, bair when he goes high. Ideally, you won't miss these very often.

wow that was a lot more than I intended to write lol

 

[MaPow]

Yea, wow thanks a lot PseudoTurtle. I played today and I was at first getting shield grabbed because he was CCing my Nair, but I adjusted and I played a decent falcon today.

 

[Phonz]

Anyone know the best punishment to whiffed rest at low, mid, and high %s I always find myself falcon punching when I know it's probably not the best option, but I like connecting with it

 

[bertbusdriver]

Charged fsmash is better than falcon punch as a kill move for missed rest.

At low-mid percents I like to stomp -> aerial. If they hold down as you stomp them, they will not pop up at very low percents, but you can techchase.

 

[Phonz]

Alright thanks I figured as munch falcon punch is just too tempting lol

 

[Phonz]

Also does anyone have any advice on the sheik MU that is my most hated character and I can never seem to do anything in those matches

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Shiek is mad gay. I'm still unsure as to how to fight that ****

 

[-ACE-]

spacing has to be really solid.

 

[Phonz]

So basically I straight suck **** and I have no idea really how to practice or what I should be practicing and I can hardly ever play actual humans...

 

[Ziodyne]

If you really have no one to play, you could work on playing fast and looking cool.

There's also a pretty nifty post on practicing by yourself in general by Dr. PeePee.

 

[CorteX]

Shiek is mad gay. I'm still unsure as to how to fight that ****

Tough matchup.. still doable tho.
I play PAL so the matchup is a little easier.

Important to note is that it can be very hard to get a move in without getting punished.
But when you do get your first hit you better make the most out of it and preferrably 0-death her.
She's still combo food.
Play PATIENTLY.
Don't fall for shino stalling shenanigans.
Space your aerials so you land behind her, limiting her options.
Mix up your recoveries else you get gimped. Do not immediately jump when you're knocked offstage.
Wavedash out of shield is really good to get out of tilt abuse.
Use spaced dairs, uairs and knees so you won't get shieldgrabbed that easily.

 

[GCS Gaming Customs]

Hey, any1 have some sort of guide or very crucial advice to give about uairs With falcon? I can't do them (the cstick feels really weird for me, but only on the uair) and when to use it?

Edit: where you at, Mango? We need you, the thread needs you, hence the "ask Mango Falcon questions"