Q&A Ask Mango Falcon Questions =D and other things

[xoxo~gossipgirl]

does anyone know if instant doublejump waveland is a faster/slower emerge onto side platforms than just fulljump waveland? obviously Falcon's doublejump ball form makes it way easier to get amazing lateral wavelands but does anything about the actual number of frames it takes to land on the platform change at all?

 

[Phonz]

does anyone know if instant doublejump waveland is a faster/slower emerge onto side platforms than just fulljump waveland? obviously Falcon's doublejump ball form makes it way easier to get amazing lateral wavelands but does anything about the actual number of frames it takes to land on the platform change at all?

im not sure about the actual frame data but doing the DJ waveland always felt faster to me than the full jump waveland.

 

[Boat Mode]

does anyone know if instant doublejump waveland is a faster/slower emerge onto side platforms than just fulljump waveland? obviously Falcon's doublejump ball form makes it way easier to get amazing lateral wavelands but does anything about the actual number of frames it takes to land on the platform change at all?

I don't have any frame data on hand, but the double jumping is absolutely faster. At the start of the double jump there is a small boost in his vertical movement, similar to dashing. DJ'ing also changes your horizontal speed, so you can use it to slow down midair and then waveland.

 

[Bones0]

Can anyone tell me from a Falcon's perspective why/how I got techchased so hard in this set? Rewatching it I feel like I should have teched in place more, but vs. every Falcon ever, they just knee the tech in place option and chase the rolls. I had a few instances where I did the same tech pattern which obviously doesn't help, but even the times I mixed it up he still read it.

 

[Ziodyne]

I actually don't think you mixed it up that well
Like, at all tbh

He kept hitting to tech -> ledge option and got you pretty much 100% of the time predicting you would always roll to the ledge. If you didn't roll to the ledge, he actually missed some of your tech options. It's hard to tell you what tech option is "best" because it largely depends on the player, but I will say at the very least it should get a lot easier to get away with random techs when you have a lead because then falcon might get a bit flustered when you mix things up.

Try rolling into the stage more or tech-ing in place if you feel confident they'll flub and you can get an immediate punish out of it.

 

[Bones0]

I actually don't think you mixed it up that well
Like, at all tbh

He kept hitting to tech -> ledge option and got you pretty much 100% of the time predicting you would always roll to the ledge. If you didn't roll to the ledge, he actually missed some of your tech options. It's hard to tell you what tech option is "best" because it largely depends on the player, but I will say at the very least it should get a lot easier to get away with random techs when you have a lead because then falcon might get a bit flustered when you mix things up.

Try rolling into the stage more or tech-ing in place if you feel confident they'll flub and you can get an immediate punish out of it.

Alright, thanks. I guess I was mostly focused on mixing up my DI from the throw for whatever reason.

 

[GCS Gaming Customs]

A post I had on the end of the last page :

Hey, any1 have some sort of guide or very crucial advice to give about uairs With falcon? I can't do them (the cstick feels really weird for me, but only on the uair) and when to use it?

Edit: where you at, Mango? We need you, the thread needs you, hence the "ask Mango Falcon questions"

Any1 have answers or strong advice? I would really appreciate some help, especially using uairs in the sheik matchup (how to combo, when to use)

 

[Ziodyne]

Uairs are kinda like swiss army knives. They have a ****ton of different uses, so it's hard to say even where to begin to tell you how to use them. Late uairs are good for mixing up with knee if the opponent might suspect u'll go for a knee and DI up. Late uairs in general are a pretty good defensive spacing tool and can work well against shields if you know how to mixup gentleman, jabs, or simple run-away on shield. Insta-uairs are an incredible anti-air part of falcon's game, it's basically just a short hop uair done as fast as possible so that the front part of uair can hit in front of you when it's out.

If you wanna practice instant uairs, plug in a second controller and try hitting a CPU Fox without fast-falling or delaying your uair. If you can do that, you have good instant uairs.

Also, uair is amazing in general when the opponent is above you, regardless of character. Against Sheik, how to combo is just basically following DI and spamming uairs, generally carrying her offstage where you can either knee her if she's at the right angle or set up an edgeguard if she's not.

Uair is a great tool with possibly too many uses to discuss. Practice it until you have it down pat and then explore some of those uses for yourself. Written advice rarely does much of the game knowledge justice IMO

 

[GCS Gaming Customs]

Thanks, I appreciate the help. Should I use the cstick tho, and should I jab it or try to use it like a stick? Id like to see how u all late uair and shorthop uair

 

[_wzrd]

honestly w/e u feel like bro. for the instant uair i usually use up+a, for late ones I use ctick cuz it's easier to do a really late aerial after the fastfall.

but seriously w/e is most comfortable is best dude

 

[_wzrd]

as far as comboing sheik goes, throws are your homie, well spaced toe nair if they don't cc/are in the air is rly easy to follow up. uair to anything (i like just ending in knee if i can tho)! stomp to knee if u can get an opening

honestly I think focusing on the neutral/movement game is really important tho cuz she is ****ing combo food once you get a solid hit----she just has a lotta ways to shut down your game in neutral+kill u efficiently.

 

[xoxo~gossipgirl]

is there any utility out of ledgehop uair regrabs or sh autocancel bairs?

 

[Ziodyne]

is there any utility out of ledgehop uair regrabs or sh autocancel bairs?

ledgehop uair regrabs are pretty good because you can throw out a threatening hitbox while not giving up ledge invincibility or position. seems like it'd be especially useful against marth, because if you tap him with it while he's offstage, he's dead in most scenarios, and if he dodges through it, u can regrab the ledge and force him to go to stage, which means free punish. ledgehop bair regrabs are also good for similar reasons.

SH autocancel bairs might have potential. Like, you could make it look like u were gonna do a SHFFL bair, but then DJ out of your bair to do something else. Also, autocancel bairs might make interesting mixups on shield if you can drift in one side of their shield and come out the other without getting shieldgrabbed.

 

[rjgbadger]

Can anyone tell me from a Falcon's perspective why/how I got techchased so hard in this set? Rewatching it I feel like I should have teched in place more, but vs. every Falcon ever, they just knee the tech in place option and chase the rolls. I had a few instances where I did the same tech pattern which obviously doesn't help, but even the times I mixed it up he still read it.

it should be painfully obvious that the entire first match the falcon was looking for you to techroll towards him, most of the time, you did. even in the second match you rolled in a ton. falcon hardly has to do ANYTHING in order to punish the techroll in. and whenever you 'mixed it up' in the second match it was still pretty predictable that you'd go that way IMO. you did too much wake-up attack for the missed tech, which surprisingly you didn't get buttslammed too much for,

 

[Coffeeblack]

mango, how do i fight fox

 

[pokemongeof]

Mango, I can't fight Marth and Shiek with my Luigi. So, I CP Falcon.

What are some tips in these matchups? Also im not going back 2 luigi for those matchups

 

[GCS Gaming Customs]

mango, how do i fight fox

Grab him and scream in his face until you can chaingrab and knee him to death. Also, it may be a good idea to never get hit, that seems to help very well in fighting games in general. If you can't implement these tactics, fox will win 99% of the time tho

Mango, I can't fight Marth and Shiek with my Luigi. So, I CP Falcon.

What are some tips in these matchups? Also im not going back 2 luigi for those matchups

Don't know a lot about matchups, but for the best combo potential, use a lot of uairs and nairs when you need em for connect hits (get a really good feel to when you use one or the other), keep your distance from sheik and learn to dodge those ****ing needles...
Also, don't get grabbed. You will be like

Marth? Idk, no good ppl to smash with around here...

 

[Ziodyne]

mango, how do i fight fox

im not mango, but this actually depends a lot on what kinda fox ur playing. that said, there are some general tips. your nair can beat out fox's nair if your nair comes out first. if you can read approaching nairs, you can punish with retreating aerials (i favor retreating stomp, which can lead to beautiful stuff). get used to the fox's tech/escape pattern, some like to tech roll everywhere, a lot of technical foxes love tech-in-place, some won't tech to get ledge slips, etc. you gotta plan for the option you wanna cover and cover it. note that covering some options gives you better results than covering others (i.e. covering tech into the stage leaves with more stage than the other way around). this also means that the other dude might realize the same thing, so then it can become a bit of a mindgame

in general though, you can tech-chase regrab on reaction if you get a grab. this is a great way to rack up %, keep the pressure on fox, and either get a read on his roll habits or condition him to not tech-roll

Mango, I can't fight Marth and Shiek with my Luigi. So, I CP Falcon.

What are some tips in these matchups? Also im not going back 2 luigi for those matchups

I play both matchups similarly. They have dumb range and **** you up if they hit you, so you work at doing safe pokes/baits until they **** up, and then you use ur absurd combo game to make their day awful. Side-b is surprisingly SUPER good against Marth, cuz his grounded options are eh compared to Sheik's and side-b has a fun tendency to go under Marth's aerials. That said, it's always punishable if they catch onto it, so do mixup safe aerials/dash-dances as well to try to poke at them.

Sheik is a matchup i'm still kinda trying to figure out. I think the most success I've had with the matchup was by dash-dance camping the **** outta them until I got a grab, but I was bad playing against other bad players. I haven't tried it on any of the better sheik's in socal, though I will say a BAD strategy is doing a dumb aerial into a tilt or a grab. Respect that sheik has awfully good defense and punish options and don't commit to anything unless you're sure you can get something good going

 

[GCS Gaming Customs]

Sheik is a matchup i'm still kinda trying to figure out. I think the most success I've had with the matchup was by dash-dance camping the **** outta them until I got a grab, but I was bad playing against other bad players. I haven't tried it on any of the better sheik's in socal, though I will say a BAD strategy is doing a dumb aerial into a tilt or a grab. Respect that sheik has awfully good defense and punish options and don't commit to anything unless you're sure you can get something good going

Really tho, I strongly dislike sheik.

Which only motivates me to destroy her harder whenever I play against this b****

 

[Ziodyne]

Really tho, I strongly dislike sheik.

Which only motivates me to destroy her harder whenever I play against this b****

I used to be perfectly fine playing Sheik.

Then I played people like Okami/Sung and now it's gotten ridiculously harder lmao

 

[Captain Smuckers]

playing m2k hurts my feelings

 

[GCS Gaming Customs]

playing m2k hurts my feelings

No falcon should ever have to experience this.

 

[Zoler]

No falcon should ever have to experience this.

Yet Ice and Armada are both better at the matchup. One of them not even a sheik main.

 

[Ziodyne]

I saw Hax's Falcon vs. Ice. I remember Ice losing to Jeapie a while back, has he been brushing up on his Falcon MU since then? I dunno, Mew2king is tipsy in the matchup, but he's a good enough player that he knows exactly how to NOT LOSE and has, from what I can tell, near unparalleled punish game in this MU.

Did Hax play vs. Armada's Sheik at EVO any time? Through Clash Suites or something?

 

[TerryJ]

A post I had on the end of the last page :


Any1 have answers or strong advice? I would really appreciate some help, especially using uairs in the sheik matchup (how to combo, when to use)

I find it much easier to do an instant UpAir by moving the control stick up during the crouching animation before the jump then hitting A. The C-Stick takes too long to get to when my finger is already on A.

Dash -> Y -> crouch animation -> Control Stick Up -> Jump -> A

 

[Zoler]

I saw Hax's Falcon vs. Ice. I remember Ice losing to Jeapie a while back, has he been brushing up on his Falcon MU since then? I dunno, Mew2king is tipsy in the matchup, but he's a good enough player that he knows exactly how to NOT LOSE and has, from what I can tell, near unparalleled punish game in this MU.

Did Hax play vs. Armada's Sheik at EVO any time? Through Clash Suites or something?

Hax lost to Ice at EVO. Also after playing a few friendlies against Armadas sheik (and losing the majority of them), he admitted that Armadas sheik is better at the matchup than mew2king.

 

[Smokey Huntz]

Hax lost to Ice at EVO. Also after playing a few friendlies against Armadas sheik (and losing the majority of them), he admitted that Armadas sheik is better at the matchup than mew2king.

I think it's cause of M2K's style, and the fact that Hax plays him every other week if they didn't play each other for a while I don't think Hax would stand a chance.

 

[Captain Smuckers]

I think it's cause of M2K's style, and the fact that Hax plays him every other week if they didn't play each other for a while I don't think Hax would stand a chance.

kinda unfair to say. it's not like m2k isn't capable of learning hax's style as well

 

[GCS Gaming Customs]

kinda unfair to say. it's not like m2k isn't capable of learning hax's style as well

Then again, m2k literally breaks even the top player's style with his annoying ass stalling and spamming and seemingly flawless movement, so.... He sorta does
unless Hax can really get past it and destroy M2k's annoying anyways, which no falcon has ever done...

 

[Ziodyne]

So in my absence, I pretty much forgot how to play against Marth.

How do you approach in this mu? I tried nair, but if I don't overshoot, I get DD grabbed and if I overshoot I get only the single hit. I might try more knee approaches next time and practice the spacing on it.

Apart from that, anyone have solid combo %'s on Marth? I realized today that I've just relied on juggling at what I think are the right %'s, not what I know. Also, any tips on OOS game vs. Marth and how to get good solid grabs and/or get the most off grabs at low % would be appreciated.

 

[Smokey Huntz]

So in my absence, I pretty much forgot how to play against Marth.

How do you approach in this mu? I tried nair, but if I don't overshoot, I get DD grabbed and if I overshoot I get only the single hit. I might try more knee approaches next time and practice the spacing on it.

Apart from that, anyone have solid combo %'s on Marth? I realized today that I've just relied on juggling at what I think are the right %'s, not what I know. Also, any tips on OOS game vs. Marth and how to get good solid grabs and/or get the most off grabs at low % would be appreciated.

Marth is actually a pretty annoying character to fight because he/she has the most range in the game, what I personally try to do is bait out an attack and then attack myself. run up grab works alot too. If you can shield drop the approaching becomes exponentially easier because most marths like to attack people above them. You have to mix that up though because a marth that becomes wary of it will either A. Bait it out. or B. not approach you on a platform at all. I think if you mix up those 3 things along with solid movement you should be fine

 

[Roneblaster]

im getting back into this game, what new things have you guys learned since late 2011?

 

[Zoler]

Falcon cannot win a national. Fox however CAN! Brand new information that was proven at EVO 2013.

 

[BlackSoL]

So I've decided to pick up a different character other then fox to better learn the game. So i chose Falcon yay! so any tips for a new Falcon? Anything I should learn upfront? For the record i already know how to SHFFL, wavedash, and a bunch of other AT's.

 

[Captain_Pr0n]

Against marth i approach very rarely. If u know hes going to throw out an Utilt or if hes going to Dtilt outside ur range as bate u might be able to get in with a knee or grab if ur fast. (dair too for the Dtilt) Generally speaking though I stay away and wait for his approach which can be beaten with perfectly spaced Dairs/Bairs unless he decides to just run up and Fsmash which will pretty much auto tip if u were Dairing. If ur getting smashed a lot try pivot shielding or triangle jumping or whatever. If the marth is using a lot of aerials its pretty good to just dash into shield unexpectedly and get a grab. For combos I Dthrow until 35% and then switch to Uthrow Uair and be ready for a trade with his Fair which is usually still good cuz he will be in the air after that. U usually dont wanna Nair marth off a throw because he can DI out of the second hit. I think one of the most important things in the MU tho is gimping marths recovery with Bairs. Also if u get hit prepare to DI flawlessly for about an hour.

 

[StoryTime]

What's a good way to practice spacing? Whenever I play against my friends i sometimes (1/2-1/3 times) whiff my aerials and grabs or really overshoot my aerials (hitting nairs with Falcon's thighs, unintentionally reverse-kneeing).

 

[Ziodyne]

What's a good way to practice spacing? Whenever I play against my friends i sometimes (1/2-1/3 times) whiff my aerials and grabs or really overshoot my aerials (hitting nairs with Falcon's thighs, unintentionally reverse-kneeing).

Well, nothing beats practice against live targets, but there are things you can do to refine your spacing if you've got the mind for it.

You can check out Dr. Peepee's post about solo practice. He talks about shadow-boxing, basically pretending that you're fighting someone else. Think about what they can do to you and what you can do against them. Practice adjusting your spacing as you would in a real match.

Mash out those SHFFL's. I don't mean just spamming nair all day on FD, but get used to making minute adjustments as you SHFFL. Your goal is to become as comfortable as possible with any and every adjustment you can possibly make to your aerials. Think of it like a Puff player trying to figure out all the adjustments to spacing they can do with bair/nair/whatevair. Falcon doesn't have that aerial mobility, but he has enough to make something work.

 

[Oni Inferno]

Mango you are awesome.

 

[gravy]

Mango doesn't actually read this thread.

 

[Aggromidget]

Mango doesn't actually read this thread.

What we can do is go on http://www.twitch.tv/meleeitonme and sometimes they answer questions. Every Wednesday from 5:30 - 8:00 pm PST (America)