Ask Ice Climber Players About Ice Climbers Thread

[Speedsk8er]

Grab, wobble `em for a bit to make them mash instead of DI(Got that from Wobbles. Go figure) and then do something random. Dthrow-> Nana Bair, Dthrow-> Fair spike into a tech-chase or smash, Uthrow -> Bair, Uthrow reverse Fsmash

Also, if you know he'll DI up, Dthrow -> Usmash.



Also, Nana is too cute. >_> <_<

 

[Binx]

Yeah speed I do that too, since I miss the timing of my wobbles and the people I play with will mash, I like to just do a dsmash though and have it smash them out of my grab, its really fast and I can do it as soon as I hear the mash start.

 

[cablepuff]

how do you guys use solo ice climbers to fight sheik?

Do you have solo ice climbers combo beside chain throw.. I notice down throw fair ain't as effective as sheik down throw fair.. how baout tilt combos?

 

[Sandwich]

I lost Nana and I'm fighting Luigi. Am I going to die?

 

[Binx]

how do you guys use solo ice climbers to fight sheik?

Do you have solo ice climbers combo beside chain throw.. I notice down throw fair ain't as effective as sheik down throw fair.. how baout tilt combos?

Honestly it gets really tough because sheik can start to grab you once you are alone, I basically just chain grab and try to get her to jump, if she doesn't jump out of it then you can dash attack to uair, once she jumps I just try to nair her off the stage or uair combo her once or twice, if you manage to nair her off the stage you can hog the ledge and get up and dsmash, pretty effective for me.

Just like anytime you are sopo your goal is to build up as much damage as you can so its just a simple grab smash when you and nana come back, obviously take any chance they give you to smash attack them but jab/grab, jab/surprise smash, wavetilts and such are safer than going for smashes, especially against sheik who is oh so fast.

I lost Nana and I'm fighting Luigi. Am I going to die?

You do less damage now but isn't like you were going to be grabbing luigi so it isn't too bad of a loss, once again just be careful and try to build up damage and then push him off the ledge, stay in the middle of the stage if you are at a higher percent than him, build up his damage then push him off the ledge, if you get him far enough out to force a forwarb b leap out and bair with confidence, he only has a 12% chance of a missfire so 7/8 times he will die and 1/8 times you will probably die or he will at the least recover (Below the stage you die also unless Nana is with you so factor it in, sometimes it is worth it especially if the luigi is good with his tornado.)

 

[Wobbles]

Trying to screw up somebody's DI is relatively easy, since you have a couple of tricks that force them to guess.

When my opponent is near KO percents, I usually like to do the following stuff:

1) Start charging forward-smash, and then wait for it to end before d-throwing. You do this because instead of trying to get out of the grab, they DI; as a result, they sit there and wait while Nana fully charges up. Then d-throw for the extra percent and let the smash end on its own. This gets you more percent than normal, and against faster fallers--or when you're at the edge of the stage--this is more efficient than up-smash.

2) Do the same as above, but up-throw before you release so that you get a fully charged forward-smash in the opposite direction. Basically, what you just did is ensured that the opponent either guesses right and has a high chance of survival or guess completely wrong and screws himself over. Again, this works best against fast fallers because when they screw up DI, you can get a really early KO.

3) Between one and two, the only "safe" way to DI is up, because that gets you positive DI regardless of whether you send them left or right. Unfortunately for them, that doesn't really help against d-throw up-smash. So charge it a bit while the d-throw is going on and just let 'em have it. There are a sizable players who can react to whether you're f-smashing or up-smashing, but it gives them something to watch for and keeps them from seeing this next trick coming...

4) Down-throw with a MISSED down-smash. This is useful against fast fallers because you can chaingrab them if and only if they DI towards you. What better way to do that then to blatantly charge a KO move that--as far as they know--can ONLY send them the one direction? Their DI is obvious... except when you down-throw, release down-smash too late and just grab them again. You get the extra percent from a down-throw and confuse the hell out of them. So now if you charge D-smash again, they wonder which way to DI. And when you think they plan to DI away from you so you can't grab them again... just let go of the charged smash.

5) Fun tidbit; you CAN d-throw d-smash and, with the right timing, send certain characters backwards and behind you. My advice is that you don't use this simply because you might convince the opponent to DI away from you and then #4 won't work.

Between those tricks, you can pretty much scare an opponent into not wanting to DI at all. They have to guess, of course, but the funny part is that every DI option directly contradicts what they *should* be doing. This is excluding the different kinds of chaingrabs you have. When an opponent wants to DI towards you, d-throw d-air starts working again. When they want to get away, the smash is deadlier.

It's lots of fun, trust me.

 

[Binx]

Damn wobbles, grab mindgames, you mindgame someone EVEN when they can't move. *quivers in fear*

 

[the CRAB]

that makes things much easier, and undoubtedly more effective. thanks much. one more and i'll get out of your hair. any tips on samus? i've tried using the matchup guide, but to no avail. those missiles are chocolate, and nana's got a sweet tooth.

 

[Speedsk8er]

How is dair good against floaties? Does that mean that Nair would be good against them also?

 

[Binx]

How is dair good against floaties? Does that mean that Nair would be good against them also?

I am confused, where did you get this question? dair does decent damage and comes out really quickly, against super floaties like jiggs she will be sent upwards a little and you have time to short hop more dairs on her.

Nair will knock them too fair to do anything but if it gets a character like luigi or Marth off the edge far enough you might be able to have an effective edgeguard assuming they can't make the edge with a double jump.

Against Marth I like to tap him off the edge with nair then turn around and wavedash in place (jump then airdodge strait down) most Marths Up-B SUPER early trying to hit you so they can recover cause they expect the edgehog, then its a simple matter of using the Binx combo (d-smash) lol to finish off their stock. Seriously though, try it.

 

[Lixivium]

I remember either choknater or Azn_Lep really advocating using D-air against Luigi and Jigglypuff but I never know what situation to use it in. When DO you use D-air? Out of shield? As a SHFFL'ed approach? From above? None of those situations seem to work. I mean D-air is quick, but it's not going to beat out any of their aerials, nor are they going to stay that close after an aerial for you to use it out of shield.

 

[choknater]

actually Lixivium, it's all of the above. it's very fast even compared to your uair and bair, but it covers your whole body instead of on a fixed position above and behind you.

what it does against the floaties is that it keeps them off your back if they keep getting near you with aerials. or even if they aren't moving, you can just run up and dair, and they won't be able to counter back because it pushes them far enough (unless they CC which is possible, or DI into you which never happens.) basically the only thing luigi and jiggs can do against the dair is see them coming and CC it, so don't spam it too much.

but other than that, dair is an amazing spacing tool with the two super-floaties and can even set up jab-grabs or fsmashes.

anyway, luigi STILL counters ice climbers so good luck trying to out-space his superior wavedashes regardless of strategy.

as for nair, it lags more and the duration of the dair hitbox stays out for a long time, so that's why it's better.

 

[Speedsk8er]

This is beside the point but Zjiin's sig is too good. I'm listening to Happy hardcore and Popo is getting DOWN! XD

 

[Zjiin]

This is beside the point but Zjiin's sig is too good. I'm listening to Happy hardcore and Popo is getting DOWN! XD

Wow, that was random haha. I actually just started a sig shop if anyone is interested. I could use the practice.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=131550

 

[Binx]

Guys!

Against captain Falcon above 30% near an edge d-throw fsmash ice block, if you expect a double jump you can charge a fsmash with nana if you expect them to fall and try to sweetspot you can shoot another iceblock, this will hit them while its hitting time one last ice block from nana and they will be too low to recover, not sure its full proof but I managed to pull it off 3 or 4 times in friendlies the other day, sure its situational but man its fun to get low percent ice block gimps. XD XD XD <(^.^<)

EDIT: You can see an example of this in Frostbite vs Ganon but chu keeps ice blocking and saves him, this is where I got the idea to try it.

 

[milkshake33]

how do i get away from samus's missiles if even possible...... is that just a bad matchup?

 

[Twin_A]

I'm no expert in this matchup butusually I just use well timed ice blocks or I jump over them and carefully approach her. Just make sure you don't approach in a way that sets you up for a death. Correct me if I'm wrong Binx but don't you cover this in the character matchup thread?

 

[Binx]

Yeah, it's in the match up thread with a TON of info from wobbles, myself, and others. There is even mention of it in this thread already.

I really don't want to type this all out again so go ahead and check the matchup thread.

 

[milkshake33]

alright, thanks ill check right now.

 

[billythegoat]

Choknater, when you have a solo popo what do you combo out of your down-throw with against a marth or a samus?

 

[Lixivium]

Choknater, when you have a solo popo what do you combo out of your down-throw with against a marth or a samus?

Depends on DI.

Marth:
Regrab or Up-smash at low percents
Up-air or running B-air at mid percents
WD Up-smash at high percents

Samus:
I think you may be able to Up-smash at low percents but most of the time you're going to have to settle for an Up-air.

 

[choknater]

actually billy, i like to nair.

the moves lixivium listed are more damaging choices... but i choose the nair because i'm lazy to be too precise. plus, the nair hits marth far enough so that he can't fair you. if you try to regrab or usmash, you can miss and be opened up for a fair (which can sometimes lead to a deadly combo.) same thing with samus, except it's a nair and samus can't do a deadly combo xDD.

SOMETIMES you can regrab marth after a low % nair. not always though, because if they DI properly you will miss. try it for a surprise factor and a sweet SoPo combo, but not all the time.

and yes, if they DI on top of you, go for an uair into a combo'd uair/nair/bair

if at high percents... marths sometimes like to do HARD away-di, and i think you can wd smash him. it's worked for me sometimes, but maybe because the marth forgot to fair during his di... which isn't uncommon.

 

[Speedsk8er]

You can also use the reverse Bair hitbox. It's how I score alot of my KOs with SoPo. It's not as powerful but them trying to DI away from you may make up for the lack of power. I'm also not sure of this but if they hard DI away from you, I think you could reverse wavedash in for a correct bair for more power/range.

 

[Binx]

I hope you all had a merry christmas full of snow and ice climbing!

 

[Speedsk8er]

I hope you all had a merry christmas full of snow and ice climbing!

:D Merry christmas! Even though I'm a day late. :D

 

[choknater]

haha, actually the reason i use red and white ice climbers (besides the fact that nana is in front) is because i feel the spirit of christmas everyday <3

 

[Binx]

LOL Chok, your too good.

 

[Speedsk8er]

I've found that Fair approaching usually works for me in matches that I play. I used to Nair approach but the hitbox doesn't seem very good sometimes(Less horizontal range?). Since I can desynch from a SHFFLed fair, I can usually work in an Ftilt with Popo to a Nair/dash attack with Nana. I've noticed this work against the Peach that I regularly play. It tacks on a decent amount of damage and not to mention, if my nana Dash attacks, I can score a Uair juggle and if Nana Nairs, I could possibly WD in for a grab(it's worked more times than not, maybe just slow reaction?).

[edit- could Jab-cancels against the shield prevent being shield grabbed if you mis space an aerial?]

 

[CoonTail]

Ok so in practice for the next esticle coming up I was playing a Fox and actually managed to pull off this chain grab when I was SoPo that made me and the fox pause the game simultaneously. I dunno if this has been found before or w/e but Im just saying it looked awesome. Fox was at about 30-35% and I up threw him following it with a SHFFL'd Up air and actually managed to chain him off it. Outside of that ebing on of the sickest things I have done I went back and tried to do it again but I've seemed to lose the timing on how to SHFFL an Up air. Is there something to look for on this or can someone tell em a trick to get the timing on them down??

 

[choknater]

maybe the uair was auto canceled? meaning you did it early enough so that you didn't have to l-cancel it.

 

[Binx]

I found my nana guy's I got married!

Anyways speed - the short answer is, it depends, Scotu has a great guide on shield stun and hit stun, and then you have to factor in Nana's Hit and Shield stun, and that can vary based on the attack and where you were when it started, then you have to take that and factor in frame data, find out when their earliest grab could be and how soon your jab would come out, I am pretty sure perfect jab cancels stop the shield grabs but it will let them roll away.

 

[Speedsk8er]

I found my nana guy's I got married!
.

OMIGAH! Congrats. I sense some horizontal Wobbling done to the bed. D: I'm jealous.

 

[choknater]

wow, really married? how sweet. congrats man!

 

[Speedsk8er]

OMG Nana's cross-stage moonwalk is now my favorite taunt. :D

 

[Wobbles]

Congratulations Binx.

I'm actually kind of curious if anybody does the ledge chaingrab besides me. From what I've seen and heard, the answer is pretty much no.

This makes me sad

 

[Smasher89]

Yay, got like 3-4 "random fsmash" kills with nana against Armada (you should know his peach atleast ) this weekend XD

Grats Binx

Wobbles, let me see it in action and I´ll see if I can develop it in my game...

 

[Speedsk8er]

Congratulations Binx.

I'm actually kind of curious if anybody does the ledge chaingrab besides me. From what I've seen and heard, the answer is pretty much no.

This makes me sad

I never get the chance to. If I do, I'll try it out. I could never get the timing down.

 

[AzN_Lep]

Wobbles I did it twice on DSF on Saturday and once against Kira in tournament. I also did it countless times in friendlies. The one on DSF was glorious

D-throw
Grab
F-throw
Grab
Blizzard
D-throw
Grab
F-throw
Grab
F-throw
F-air spike

 

[Speedsk8er]

Wobbles I did it twice on DSF on Saturday and once against Kira in tournament. I also did it countless times in friendlies. The one on DSF was glorious

D-throw
Grab
F-throw
Grab
Blizzard
D-throw
Grab
F-throw
Grab
F-throw
F-air spike

HAHA! That sounds sexy.

 

[Wobbles]

Since we are now officially chatting about Nana-grabs...

I lost my memory card awhile ago, so the only stage I practice on anymore is Pokemon Stadium. It is actually a lot of fun to see how it affects Nana's AI when she's grabbed an opponent.

For instance, during transformations there are sometimes slopes near the edge that cause her to throw backwards instead of forward. She will try to throw the enemy towards the slope if she is closer to it than the edge. You'll see this most often on the grass stage.

Also, Nana's ledge AI applies to platforms as well. If you manage to land a grab while on a platform, you can actually do the ledge chaingrab there as well. This works particularly well against floaties because it means you can KO them at a lower percent with d-throw up-smash.