Q&A Ask about Pikachu! Hosted by Axe and N64! feat. dkuo!

[Sapphire Dragon]

XD Epic win

 

[indigestible_wad]

I haven't been into pokemon cards since they stopped using the e-reader.

 

[AXE 09]

EPIC I love the card lol

I've been working on changing some things about my Pika...

Namely:

1) landing on the stage after my up-b with the least amount of lag. You know, when you go horizontally on the stage just barely above the floor so you don't have nearly as much lag? I wanna start getting that distance down so when I know my opponent will grab the edge, I can recover like that and hopefully they won't be able to reach me in time before my lag ends.

2) SH Uair after a SHFFL Nair instead of full jump. All of AZ's best players keep waiting till I do that on their shield then punish me with their own full jump Bair or something. Well I'm sick of it lol. It would be great to have a little mixup.
Plus I've noticed if I hit someone with a running SHFFL Nair and do a SH Uair immediately, sometimes I'll catch them with the 4th hitbox of the Uair and that can combo into Usmash or another Nair =) So I'm gonna keep working on that.

And thanks to Tai, I have a capture card now!! So maybe I can start uploading some vids As soon as I figure out how to download the programs I need to work this thing lol. Anyone have any advice? I have no clue how this thing works.

Pika pii ika:

 

[Sapphire Dragon]

Good luck on all the changes to your Pika :D I'm sure they'll make you even more epic

What kind of capture card do you have? :o Know any specs? I could probably help you out some.

Pika pi

 

[AXE 09]

Good luck on all the changes to your Pika :D I'm sure they'll make you even more epic

What kind of capture card do you have? :o Know any specs? I could probably help you out some.

Pika pi

You freakin rock I'll message you lol.

Pikaaaa ika:

 

[Spyro]

Axe uploading agian? That should be awesome . And good luck on the changes to your Pikachu.

Pi pikachu

 

[soju]

Wild Thunderstone Appears

*And I just pretty much learned the jist of how the Bair works, give me some more time to mess around with it then I'll record some things.

 

[indigestible_wad]

EPIC I love the card lol

2) SH Uair after a SHFFL Nair instead of full jump. All of AZ's best players keep waiting till I do that on their shield then punish me with their own full jump Bair or something. Well I'm sick of it lol. It would be great to have a little mixup.
Plus I've noticed if I hit someone with a running SHFFL Nair and do a SH Uair immediately, sometimes I'll catch them with the 4th hitbox of the Uair and that can combo into Usmash or another Nair =) So I'm gonna keep working on that.

Pika pii ika:

Falling uair acts the same as upthrow, but they have more ability to DI out of it. Utilt and upsmash have a similar mechanic at varying percents. Although I probably bet you know this, being axe and all.

Have you tried dsmashing as you land after the nair? THat will sometimes trick them into letting their shield down early.

 

[AXE 09]

^Yeah the Dsmash can work pretty well sometimes, but if they shield the entire Dsmash or jump after the Nair hits their shield, then that's a free punish I don't feel very safe Using Dsmash although sometimes it pays off, but I'd usually rather opt to a Uair, another running Nair (if I don't land super close to them, then it can act as a fast attack and retreat at the same time), or just dash and see what they do.

Usually I full jump Uair though, and I've been getting punished for that lately. So I wanna start trying to SH Uair instead.

 

[oukd]

Nice card soju

Axe, I feel like using other pressure mixups would do more to counter a punish attempt than simply using sh uair (esp if they're just going to bair you, they're still going to bair you out of sh uair). If you notice they're waiting for you and staying in shield, use grab/dair if you know they'll jump oos/run away/space yourself/etc. ofc sh uair still seems like a good option to change up your pressure timing. Pika's pressure game needs to be explored more imo.

On the topic of uairs, I'm trying to teach myself how to do immediate shffl uairs by using my left thumb for the cstick...seems weird at first but I think I can get used to it thanks to my long fingers lol. I wish I could do the buffered jump+up uair that falcons do but Pika's jump is too fast...

 

[AXE 09]

On the topic of uairs, I'm trying to teach myself how to do immediate shffl uairs by using my left thumb for the cstick...seems weird at first but I think I can get used to it thanks to my long fingers lol. I wish I could do the buffered jump+up uair that falcons do but Pika's jump is too fast...

Using your left thumb for the cstick??? *tries to imagine*

 

[oukd]

Here: http://i.imgur.com/QZdyM.jpg

I used to do the same thing for Fox shdl. My hands are pretty big <_<

 

[soju]

Jesus I must have baby hands then, I can't reach the c-stick with my left thumb without sliding my hand over as well ;_;

 

[oukd]

Nah it just means you're normal. I'm a mutant

 

[Spyro]

I've been messing with new ways to hold the controler to try to get it to where I can have a individual finger for :abutton:, :bbutton: and :ybutton: / :xbutton:. I want to try to get that syle of holding the controler that way for tech skill purposes.

*EDIT*: I think I found a way to make it work. *goes to room to try it out*

 

[AXE 09]

Here: http://i.imgur.com/QZdyM.jpg

I used to do the same thing for Fox shdl. My hands are pretty big <_<

Ohhhhh I see. I can do that too! I just tried it lol. I don't really need to slide my hand, it just kinda leans over a little bit but it's not nearly as dramatic as I thought it would be. I could see that being used. I guess both of us are mutants lol. I've been told that I have long thumbs =O Never really realized it. And I already have "kinda" big hands.

Spyro, have you seen the way Javi holds his controller?

 

[soju]

D: Now I'm gonna miss out on this new experimental left-thumb csticking shenanigans due to my tiny asian fingers. Profound Sadness.

 

[Spyro]

Spyro, have you seen the way Javi holds his controller?

No, I have not but I know he basicly holds the controler like a fighting stick.

Here is how i've been trying out holding my controler, my left and is the same as it was befor, I just have my pointer finger on the :ltrigger: and thumb and the :stick5:. However the way I hold it with my right hand is pretty weird. I put my thumb on the stick5:, my pointer finger on the :bbutton:, my middle finger is on the :abutton:, my ring finger is on the :ybutton: and my pinky is on the :zbutton:. So yeah, its going to take a lot of getting use to.

 

[AXE 09]

^Holy crap that sounds brilliantly insane! You, sir, are a mad scientist lol. Sounds tough to get used to but I feel like it could seriously pay off.

Javi basically keeps his left hand like normal, but with his right he keeps his hand kinda hovering above the controller and pushes the buttons with his fingertips. So yeah, he pretty muches uses his right hand arcade style.

Dang I've already gone way too far in my smash career to have THAT drastic of a change, but if it was like 2006 or 2007, I might have tried getting used to the same thing or something similar to what you're trying. Sounds very useful

 

[Spyro]

^Holy crap that sounds brilliantly insane! You, sir, are a mad scientist lol. Sounds tough to get used to but I feel like it could seriously pay off.

Thanks :D and yeah, I basically have to relearn all my tech skill, even doing simple stuff like drill waveshine into grab with fox is hard right now.

Javi basically keeps his left hand like normal, but with his right he keeps his hand kinda hovering above the controller and pushes the buttons with his fingertips. So yeah, he pretty muches uses his right hand arcade style.

Yeah I knew that he held it like a fight stick but not really sure how he held the control.

Dang I've already gone way too far in my smash career to have THAT drastic of a change, but if it was like 2006 or 2007, I might have tried getting used to the same thing or something similar to what you're trying. Sounds very useful

Yeah for someone that has been playing competitive smash for yeah it would takes months upon months to get use to something like this, but if you really wanted to I bet you could do it :D.

 

[soju]

I tested that little controller hold style out just now, it's mad akward but I see how it would work, good luck with that. XD

Anyways, I think I fully grasped the concept of the bair, which I'll post about later, didn't take me too long, just a couple hours then I started to try moonwalking with pikachu, I think I burned some skin off my thumb trying to use my joystick so fast. XDDDD But doing this made me figure out how to pivot walk off the stage into a ledge grab with relative ease. :3

 

[DerfMidWest]

I met a falco who played like that. I was still more technical than him though lol.

 

[Vaccine]

what % can i start chain grabbing fox, falco, and falcon at if they di away and if they dont di at all? at what % is it worth chain grabbing those characters at(idk if this differs from when i can start chain grabbing)?

what % does the chain grab stop working at and does di affect when it ends? how do i finish these chain grabs?

i know i asked a lot of questions but if someone could answer these questions to the best of their ability me and the person im asking these question for would really appreciate it!

Thank You

 

[N64]

You can start chaingrabbing at about 10-15%. On fox/falco it works until around 100%, regardless of DI. Some of the regrabs can be a little difficult if they DI so that they're right above you (can be ambiguous whether or not you need to turn around to regrab), but it's still possible. You can usmash from a uthrow once the chaingrab ends. It may not kill at 90-100%ish if they DI hard left/right, but if you can follow up with a thunder afterward, that kills.

The main things to pay attention to are their DI (obviously), and whether or not you're close to the edge. Your opponent will either try to screw up your chainthrow with alternating DI, or they'll just DI to the edge of the stage so that your chainthrow ends before you can usmash kill. If they do this, after the last uthrow (where they DI off and you can't regrab), try to hit them with a nair or quick uair to knock them further offstage to force them to recover, where you can try to edgeguard them.

Also to be clear, this only works on Final Destination (or Fountain of Dreams for the short time where both lower platforms have sunk into the stage). On other legal stages, they'll go high enough from the uthrow that they can tech on a platform.

 

[Spyro]

I met a falco who played like that. I was still more technical than him though lol.

He must just never pactice any of his tech skill.

*EDIT*: I wanted to re ask my barried question

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHsW5S_eulY

Wow your Pikachu is really good n64. I wish I could have seen the whole match. Why are there not more recent video's of your Pikachu N64? All of the other videos are like 3 - 5 years old.

 

[DerfMidWest]

I'm more technical than most people i've met at tourneys, but thats mostly just because there are like no technical players in ohio.

speaking of techskill, I'm working on moonwalks now.
Pika's and Pichu's are hard to do <_<

I can do it pree consistently with most characters now though, although they are pretty small.
My Y.Link can slide all over the place... and my Fox kinda runs in place, but thats ok for now.

 

[soju]

Pika/Pichu Moonwalk are easy to do the first time, but due to their somewhat laggy time to get to full walking speed, it's hard to do it any more then once.
I'm trying to get as good as my friend DonDonSF at moonwalking but I'm nowhere near that level XD
Moonwalking Shenanigans

 

[Warhawk]

N64 if they try to DI off the stage on the chaingrab can you go for a pivot grab when you get close enough to the edge and then just back throw them off and use their own DI against them? Because I can't imagine Falco living from a back throw at like 60-70% when he DI's with the throw and not against it. Seems like this would also discourage them from trying to DI the chaingrab off stage on future grabs and make them easier to chaingrab in the future.

 

[N64]

It's a neat idea, but if they're DIing as hard as they can left/right, you won't be able to get to the other side and pivot before they hit the ground or can jump out. You can, however, end your chainthrow with an fthrow once they get near the edge. It's not as good as bthrow obviously, but you recover from its lag before they recover from the hitstun and you can still ftilt the edge or cover other recovery options with aerials. Also as you stated, if they're just holding left/right as you fthrow them, it'll send them pretty far, so they'll have less recovery options in general.

Or you can end it with a usmash if they're over like 50% and you want to get some damage on them before they get out.

Spyro:
I haven't reeeally played Melee in over a year, and the last biggish tourney i went to was the one that video is from. Other than that, I generally don't make it out of pools at tourneys. But I know lots! and have been around a while. And I'd like to think I'm a fairly smart player, but I have plenty of bad habits, and consistently awful tech skill. So yeahhhhh.

Edit: but it's ok cause I beat Joe Bushman in pools at FC6. And Plankk before he knew how to play. Props to my 2005 self.

 

[Warhawk]

Yea I figured so, but it just came to mind and I thought if it was possible that it would be a great mixup. Too bad though.

 

[oukd]

uthrow cg to shffl uair tailspike off the side seems viable but probably won't be any better than an fthrow

 

[indigestible_wad]

I don't see people falling for twist DI in the first place when back throw takes so long to let go.

 

[Warhawk]

I don't see people falling for twist DI in the first place when back throw takes so long to let go.

Stranger things have happened. Plus you gotta think while DIing they're gonna be thinking about how after they get off stage they're going to get back on without being gimped, since as a spacie you really don't want to be off-stage. That distraction coupled with surprise I was thinking could allow for a one-time slip-up, not that it matters anyways since you aren't going to be able to get the pivot grab needed to do it, which I kinda expected.

 

[AXE 09]

I always like going for the dropzone tailspike if they DI the Uthrow offstage.

 

[Dark Hart]

Is that me? =O

shmaybe

double tail spikes are cool cause pikachu's all like "FLIPPY FLIPPY" and the opponent's like "I CAN'T DO ANYTHING, I CAN'T DO ANYTHING FOR A SECOND TIIIIIIIIIIIME"

 

[N64]

Added peach and cfalcon matchups to my guidey. Also added the matchup values we decided on in those pika conferences.

Triple tailspikes is where it's at. I wasssss edgeguarding you over there, but now I guess you're going to die over here.

 

[Spyro]

Your Pikachu guide needs to be sticked N64, the other Pikachu guide is outdated.

 

[oukd]

Good stuff N64. Interesting that you think the falcon-pika matchup is in falcon's favor...

Btw if anyone is free this weekend (and close enough) they should come to Shell Shocked! I'm going 100% Pika for the first time (meaning no Falco) so this should be interesting <_<

I don't think anyone who posts here lives close enough to come to this lol

 

[N64]

Pika v falcon is still his best high tier matchup, and it's pretty close. I don't remember my exact opinion when we made the matchup values (was decided about a year ago between axe, chad, and myself, with input from others), but that sounds about right to me. The main thing is C.Falcon can't play the match like he's used to playing a lot of matches. As long as he respects pika's uair and is using his range advantage effectively, i think he still holds a very slight edge. They both combo the crap out of eachother, Falcon just has a slightly better onstage game, and pika has a better offstage game.

 

[Warhawk]

Pika v falcon is still his best high tier matchup, and it's pretty close.

Better than even Ganon?

Edit: I guess he can be considered middle but I don't like the 3 general tier system and so I think of 11th on up as the "upper tier" and below as the "lower tier".