-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Q&A Ask about Pikachu! Hosted by Axe and N64! feat. dkuo!
- Thread starter N64
- Start date
Spyro
Smash Ace
Hope everyone here had an awesome Christmas.
iRobinhoood
Smash Lord
Will Smuckers make an appearance at Tico's Place today??
Captain Smuckers
Smash Journeyman
He believes so
Captain Smuckers
Smash Journeyman
Double post swag.
How do you pikas that are far better than I learn to sdi fox's upairs? Did you just get the hang of it after playing tons of foxes, or did you actually work on it with a friend or something? Cause frankly, I'm god awful at it, and I think if I were better at it, the fox match up wouldn't be nearly as bad.
How do you pikas that are far better than I learn to sdi fox's upairs? Did you just get the hang of it after playing tons of foxes, or did you actually work on it with a friend or something? Cause frankly, I'm god awful at it, and I think if I were better at it, the fox match up wouldn't be nearly as bad.
oukd
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2010
- Messages
- 1,464
im not far better than you but
just try to do it a lot and if you don't get it try to change the timing to be slightly later/earlier until you get it down, then do it as much as you can lol
get a friend to help if you want to figure out the timing first, but i just do it during friendlies vs fox
i find it more consistent if you input the sdi just a tad early
and use the cstick too
just try to do it a lot and if you don't get it try to change the timing to be slightly later/earlier until you get it down, then do it as much as you can lol
get a friend to help if you want to figure out the timing first, but i just do it during friendlies vs fox
i find it more consistent if you input the sdi just a tad early
and use the cstick too
Captain Smuckers
Smash Journeyman
Yeah, I kind of figured that was all. I actually run into issues when I use cstick sometimes. Somehow I have the horrible luck of them screwing up or something, but since I use the cstick I'll bair and end up getting further beaten up lol. It'd help if I DI'd the up throw in the first place <_<. I'm pretty decent at survival DI, but I'm soooooooooooooooooooooo bad at the others that I can't even believe it lol. I'd say it's far and away my biggest (of so many) problem. I'll keep workin at it though, thanks for the input.
AXE 09
Smash Master
The C-stick actually doesn't do anything to help SDI fox's Uair lol.
Basically, the C-stick (as far as DI is concerned) is really only useful if you're touching the floor/wall/ceiling (most notably the floor though).
To SDI Fox's Uair, you need to hit your control stick in a direction at the same time you get hit by the first hit of the Uair (you're actually supposed to input a direction during the freeze frames while you're being hit, aka during "hitlag").
If Fox is going to barely reach you, it's best to SDI straight up.
If he's going to go really high (so when you SDI up, you'll still get hit), I've found it best to SDI either Down+Left, or Down+right (I usually try to SDI behind Fox, but I'm honestly not sure which is the "best" DI for this).
I hope that helped
Basically, the C-stick (as far as DI is concerned) is really only useful if you're touching the floor/wall/ceiling (most notably the floor though).
To SDI Fox's Uair, you need to hit your control stick in a direction at the same time you get hit by the first hit of the Uair (you're actually supposed to input a direction during the freeze frames while you're being hit, aka during "hitlag").
If Fox is going to barely reach you, it's best to SDI straight up.
If he's going to go really high (so when you SDI up, you'll still get hit), I've found it best to SDI either Down+Left, or Down+right (I usually try to SDI behind Fox, but I'm honestly not sure which is the "best" DI for this).
I hope that helped
oukd
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2010
- Messages
- 1,464
ah interesting, ive always heard otherwise...ive gotten into the habit of csticking all my sdi's by now though. kind of like people who still do mario kart di lol
i think sdi direction really depends on fox's movement. usually sdi'ing the opposite direction of fox's dash before his jump works. idk how intricate fox's focus on their uair spacing though <_<
i think down-right/down-left would be good if the 2nd hit would be coming up higher than the 1st hit, but if they're at about the same level pure left/right seems better
obligatory kk's demo kirby guide
i think sdi direction really depends on fox's movement. usually sdi'ing the opposite direction of fox's dash before his jump works. idk how intricate fox's focus on their uair spacing though <_<
i think down-right/down-left would be good if the 2nd hit would be coming up higher than the 1st hit, but if they're at about the same level pure left/right seems better
obligatory kk's demo kirby guide
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,560
it helps, jeff, but not by much.
AXE 09
Smash Master
^Maybe not to someone who's an expert with frame data lol
oukd
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2010
- Messages
- 1,464
ive been doing so much crossup aerial utilt with falco lately. feels pika-like but with less area covered yet feels more op than pika's crossup nair uair 
btw. we should all meet up at apex and play a lot of pika-vs-??? games and have a pika mind-meld on matchups/strategies. :D
btw. we should all meet up at apex and play a lot of pika-vs-??? games and have a pika mind-meld on matchups/strategies. :D
AXE 09
Smash Master
Just got done watching this set:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpOUvaFVnc0
Captain Smuckers, I'm impressed That first match was so brilliant, but then the 2nd and 3rd matches he kept getting you with those stupid Usmashes lol.
But I'm impressed by the shield dropping, especially in the 3rd match.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpOUvaFVnc0
Captain Smuckers, I'm impressed
That first match was so brilliant, but then the 2nd and 3rd matches he kept getting you with those stupid Usmashes lol.But I'm impressed by the shield dropping, especially in the 3rd match.
Captain Smuckers
Smash Journeyman
Oh, lol thanks. I was actually pretty unhappy with how I played in that set. I actually realized mid set "okay, I keep blindly approaching him as he dash dances.....stop." But couldn't lol. He probably shouldn't have lost the first match though, I got pretty damn lucky. Overall I was really happy with that tournament, I managed to beat someone that I've lost really close sets to twice before :D. I feel like I always doubt playing pikachu; I was thinking of dropping him as a main for quite a while actually, but every time I go to a tournament my doubts go away. Hopefully they'll stay away until apex lol.
By the way, I had to play dj nintendo at that and he actually counter picked pikachu against me game 2....I was really upset lol so I switched to marth.... didn't go well.
By the way, I had to play dj nintendo at that and he actually counter picked pikachu against me game 2....I was really upset lol so I switched to marth.... didn't go well.
Naughty Pixel
Smash Apprentice
Just watched Smuckers vs T Webb, one thing that stood out to me was your inability to convert edge guard opportunities into kills. I saw jolts, a dair and a uair or 2. He kept phantasming on stage, wouldn't F-Tilt be a safer and stronger solution? Its faster and doesn't put you off the stage (uair), and you maintain positional advantage. If you miss with F-Tilt, you still have a chance to punish his recovery and realistically he can't sweet spot so the only way he can get back is to go high.
Ryobeat
Smash Ace
Smuckers is amazing<3 I'm gonna critique later
soju
SD God
hai thar gai's
oukd
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2010
- Messages
- 1,464
hi soju
omg smuckers that first match looooool
good **** dude
your punishment and techchasing look real good, just gotta work on nair approach setups since you got most punished for those. try to vary the rhythm of your movement so that it's harder for the fox to predict nairs
and occasionally overcommitting to offstage punishes i suppose, especially with some overeager read attempts. basically what naughty pixel said lol
but you probably already know all of this
also nice shield drops
omg smuckers that first match looooool
good **** dude
your punishment and techchasing look real good, just gotta work on nair approach setups since you got most punished for those. try to vary the rhythm of your movement so that it's harder for the fox to predict nairs
and occasionally overcommitting to offstage punishes i suppose, especially with some overeager read attempts. basically what naughty pixel said lol
but you probably already know all of this
also nice shield drops
Captain Smuckers
Smash Journeyman
Yeah, thanks a lot for the feedback guys :D I find it funny that I didn't even need to ask; you guys are awesome.
I totally agree, NaughtyPixel, I was somewhat dumb with my edgeguards sometimes. I certainly over committed at times and just didn't play it simple like f-tilting. If nothing else, I should've thrown that in a few times at least.
Something that I noticed after watching it a few times, is that my recoveries were sucking soooooo much lol. I'd like to chalk that up to nerves, but even if that IS the case (I prolly just suck) there's no real excuse.
For sure though, I'd argue that my biggest problem (after the 1st match) was that I was playing the neutral game like a fool. Couldn't say why, but I became really restless and kept aimlessly attacking.
Also, hi Soju, and Ryobeat I'm really upset my sets against you and Jsex weren't recorded, I felt like those were the best I played the entire tournament, If I had played against you like I did with Twebb I'm sure you would've ripped me apart lol.
Keep the critiquing coming :D
I totally agree, NaughtyPixel, I was somewhat dumb with my edgeguards sometimes. I certainly over committed at times and just didn't play it simple like f-tilting. If nothing else, I should've thrown that in a few times at least.
Something that I noticed after watching it a few times, is that my recoveries were sucking soooooo much lol. I'd like to chalk that up to nerves, but even if that IS the case (I prolly just suck) there's no real excuse.
For sure though, I'd argue that my biggest problem (after the 1st match) was that I was playing the neutral game like a fool. Couldn't say why, but I became really restless and kept aimlessly attacking.
Also, hi Soju, and Ryobeat I'm really upset my sets against you and Jsex weren't recorded, I felt like those were the best I played the entire tournament, If I had played against you like I did with Twebb I'm sure you would've ripped me apart lol.
Keep the critiquing coming :D
Italis
Smash Rookie
Hey there guys! I'm still fairly new to the melee thing and even newer now that i just picked up my gamecube controller again! but anyways i has a question. If you know that your opponent always baits chaingrabs, then what are some signs/ ways to prevent it from happening?
iRobinhoood
Smash Lord
You cannot prevent your opponent from baiting approaches. You just need to see them ahead of time and not approach or approach with a plan.
Italis
Smash Rookie
hmm... maybe i wrote that horribly wrong.... what i meant was.... if you know that your opponent is trying to bait you and then chaingrab you, is there any way to safely approach them or something along those lines?
iRobinhoood
Smash Lord
I think you wrote that horribly wrong lol. Your playing Pikachu vs who? What's happening? Are you nairing in and Marth is dashing away then dashing back and grabbing you? Are you DDing and when you make an approach Shiek wavedashes back and grabs you? Tell us everything thats happening, all factors involved.
Krynxe
I can't pronounce it either
Depends on how they grab you, too. I'll just throw a ton of info at you and hope some of it helps depending on your situation, haha
First off, single jabbing is good, use it! Pika's is a little worse than most characters above him on the tier list, but it's still effective to counter grabs at times. They'll be trying to grab and get interrupted by your quick jab, and you can usually punish them before they realize that their grab got interrupted in the first place. Jab is useful, too, because of how hard it is to punish for more characters. Pikachu's grab is a bit laggier than others though, so use it sparingly.
If your concern is being shield grabbed, then work on your spacing/cross-ups. Mostly cross-ups, since Pikachu's range sucks too much to space outside of grab range usually. Land behind their shield and they can't grab you (unless they do something proactive). If you land on front of their shield, make sure you're ready to do something fast enough not to get grabbed.
None of your aerials are safe to land on front of your opponents shield with, BUT an L-canceled nair only has 7 frames of lag and grab comes out on the 7th frame for most characters, so you can bank on your opponent not being frame perfect a lot and can usually get a jab or spotdodge before the grab. Do your best not to be in this situation with any other aerial. This info might not be super reliable since I don't play Pika, so axe/n64 lemme know, but just loosely consider this
Remember, baiting is a great way to get free hits in on less experienced players and counter people who fish for grabs. One huge technique is jumping at your opponent and doing absolutely nothing until you land - aka empty approaching. They'll be expecting an attack, so you'll have not only the frame advantage but the reaction advantage on them, you just can just land on front of them and grab them out of their shield or something. Faster characters like Pikachu should abuse this a lot, I play puff and it still works all the time (since they expect bairs lols) so that just shows how effective it can be. If you're advanced enough to do this, auto-canceling your approaches is also a fantastic tool, it's just like empty approaching except you cover more options because you do throw out an attack AND you can still interrupt them. In general: be spontaneous! If you get predictable or they read your baits, you'll continue to get grabbed.
If they just grab you a lot, consider the following:
- Pikachu is really agile, don't stand still much at all. Try to have pretty though-out and safe movement and just be smart about how you approach/dashdance
- Be safe with attacks. Don't throw out random smashes, like don't get too greedy for dash-in usmash and such.
- Change up how you tech. Being predictable = getting punished.
- Try not to roll too much, you'll find yourself getting punished a lot unless you do it right.
In general, you can choose to take either a defensive or offensive approach. For defensive, try to get good at your dashdance game, and get use to simply dashing away from your opponent when they approach and dashing right back to punish them if they do something, or just keep backing up if they do nothing and reset the situation and repeat. The offensive method is using mix-ups, quick and rapid attacks to overwhelm your opponent and make them not want to grab because of how unsafe it is. Less experienced players will usually respond with bad rolling, where you can read their rolls and get follow-ups. Mixing up between these two styles will help your game a lot, but they both take a lot of experience to master. You'll have to do some research or ask questions to get more info on this for your character.
If I learned one thing about Pikachu from watching Axe, it's that cross-up nair to up-air is the mo****ing godlike so you better practice the **** out of it if you want to win. (This implies knowing your follow-ups, especially versus those fastfallers. You can get a anywhere between 50% and a kill by just getting a good up-air on a fastfaller if you can convert it.)
Most of this was not written in regards to top level play, but to be helpful to someone who's still in the process of getting better at the game. Also, didn't really look over what I just wrote so sorry for redundancy, etc.
Feel free to ask any question or clarification lol. Hope this helps.
First off, single jabbing is good, use it! Pika's is a little worse than most characters above him on the tier list, but it's still effective to counter grabs at times. They'll be trying to grab and get interrupted by your quick jab, and you can usually punish them before they realize that their grab got interrupted in the first place. Jab is useful, too, because of how hard it is to punish for more characters. Pikachu's grab is a bit laggier than others though, so use it sparingly.
If your concern is being shield grabbed, then work on your spacing/cross-ups. Mostly cross-ups, since Pikachu's range sucks too much to space outside of grab range usually. Land behind their shield and they can't grab you (unless they do something proactive). If you land on front of their shield, make sure you're ready to do something fast enough not to get grabbed.
None of your aerials are safe to land on front of your opponents shield with, BUT an L-canceled nair only has 7 frames of lag and grab comes out on the 7th frame for most characters, so you can bank on your opponent not being frame perfect a lot and can usually get a jab or spotdodge before the grab. Do your best not to be in this situation with any other aerial. This info might not be super reliable since I don't play Pika, so axe/n64 lemme know, but just loosely consider this
Remember, baiting is a great way to get free hits in on less experienced players and counter people who fish for grabs. One huge technique is jumping at your opponent and doing absolutely nothing until you land - aka empty approaching. They'll be expecting an attack, so you'll have not only the frame advantage but the reaction advantage on them, you just can just land on front of them and grab them out of their shield or something. Faster characters like Pikachu should abuse this a lot, I play puff and it still works all the time (since they expect bairs lols) so that just shows how effective it can be. If you're advanced enough to do this, auto-canceling your approaches is also a fantastic tool, it's just like empty approaching except you cover more options because you do throw out an attack AND you can still interrupt them. In general: be spontaneous! If you get predictable or they read your baits, you'll continue to get grabbed.
If they just grab you a lot, consider the following:
- Pikachu is really agile, don't stand still much at all. Try to have pretty though-out and safe movement and just be smart about how you approach/dashdance
- Be safe with attacks. Don't throw out random smashes, like don't get too greedy for dash-in usmash and such.
- Change up how you tech. Being predictable = getting punished.
- Try not to roll too much, you'll find yourself getting punished a lot unless you do it right.
In general, you can choose to take either a defensive or offensive approach. For defensive, try to get good at your dashdance game, and get use to simply dashing away from your opponent when they approach and dashing right back to punish them if they do something, or just keep backing up if they do nothing and reset the situation and repeat. The offensive method is using mix-ups, quick and rapid attacks to overwhelm your opponent and make them not want to grab because of how unsafe it is. Less experienced players will usually respond with bad rolling, where you can read their rolls and get follow-ups. Mixing up between these two styles will help your game a lot, but they both take a lot of experience to master. You'll have to do some research or ask questions to get more info on this for your character.
If I learned one thing about Pikachu from watching Axe, it's that cross-up nair to up-air is the mo****ing godlike so you better practice the **** out of it if you want to win. (This implies knowing your follow-ups, especially versus those fastfallers. You can get a anywhere between 50% and a kill by just getting a good up-air on a fastfaller if you can convert it.)
Most of this was not written in regards to top level play, but to be helpful to someone who's still in the process of getting better at the game. Also, didn't really look over what I just wrote so sorry for redundancy, etc.
Feel free to ask any question or clarification lol. Hope this helps.
oukd
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2010
- Messages
- 1,464
A proposal to Pika (or non-Pika) players at Apex:
$5 MM me in a BO5 match with your Pikachu, MBR ruleset, vs my Pikachu or Falco (your choice).
Except, a small difference: I have Axe's semi-famous Pikachu/Flash shirt (size L) from Teefury, meaning they're no longer in production. If you win, instead of getting $5 you can have this shirt! For the record, it was originally $10 ($12 total, when Teefury still had shipping fee.) First come first serve. And yes, it'll be cleaned. lol
Axe doesn't count since he already has this shirt. Can't be having a monopoly up in here **** it, come at me
Order of priority: 1. Smuckers
2. Soju if he shows up
3. ???
$5 MM me in a BO5 match with your Pikachu, MBR ruleset, vs my Pikachu or Falco (your choice).
Except, a small difference: I have Axe's semi-famous Pikachu/Flash shirt (size L) from Teefury, meaning they're no longer in production. If you win, instead of getting $5 you can have this shirt! For the record, it was originally $10 ($12 total, when Teefury still had shipping fee.) First come first serve. And yes, it'll be cleaned. lol
Order of priority: 1. Smuckers
2. Soju if he shows up
3. ???
Captain Smuckers
Smash Journeyman
My pika vs your falco.
Captain Smuckers
Smash Journeyman
I knew that there was a slight possibility of you making that exact proposal, so I've just been watching the pika boards nonstop for a few days.
But yeah, I'd like to do that lol. I'd also like to do a lot of other matchups with you, where we could either have them as like, $1 MM's or just friendlies/seriouslies. Either would be fine by me.
But yeah, I'd like to do that lol. I'd also like to do a lot of other matchups with you, where we could either have them as like, $1 MM's or just friendlies/seriouslies. Either would be fine by me.
Captain Smuckers
Smash Journeyman
...got any more stuff?
oukd
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2010
- Messages
- 1,464
sorry for doubleposting ~_~
lol i just found isai's small guide on pika dittos for n64. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYt8bjMFX0o
ssb64 is so goofy <_< funnily enough a lot of that actually applies to melee pika
also i changed my mind, if axe wants to shirt mm me that'd be cool too lol
lol i just found isai's small guide on pika dittos for n64. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYt8bjMFX0o
ssb64 is so goofy <_< funnily enough a lot of that actually applies to melee pika
also i changed my mind, if axe wants to shirt mm me that'd be cool too lol
Captain Smuckers
Smash Journeyman
Not cool, man
soju
SD God
I'll play you if I manage to get out of military training by the time Apex happens 8D
AXE 09
Smash Master
My shirt is XXL and it's still slightly smaller than I want it to be. You all know I love my big shirts
Captain Smuckers
Smash Journeyman
Bwahahahahahaha, I'm afraid you shall look no further than I, dkuo