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nekokatsu

nekokatsu

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 2, 2009
Messages
92
i was thinking bout, how dealing damage with gw its so great and easy, but after seeing the new video from gimr, i tought we still have the same problem... we cant kill!!! of course, if we somehow manage to kill 1 stock on 80, we can say that the round is over... but if we cant... so, i was wondering if we can come up with our kills setup... cuz when i cant get the kill at 80, i end getting the stock over 140 with a fair or d air...
 
A2ZOMG

A2ZOMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
12,542
Location
RPV, California
NNID
A2ZOMG
Switch FC
SW 8400 1713 9427
Don't force it too much, but 3rd hit N-air -> D-smash is REALLY good. Combos on the entire cast. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu-OoGljl5k

Deliberate powershielding is a bit underused. Something you want to occasionally try your hand at since it's especially helpful for sneaking in G&W's Smashes.

You actually want to D-tilt more when you're looking for kills, since it's one of G&W's best moves for putting people offstage. People also do miss techs after getting hit by D-tilt, which can put them in really silly positions.

I don't think it's actually hard for G&W to score kills, just it requires patience. Don't force Smashes, just focus on playing with solid fundamentals and bust out something big only after you've put people in a bad position, which alone is pretty easy for G&W to do.
 
A2ZOMG

A2ZOMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
12,542
Location
RPV, California
NNID
A2ZOMG
Switch FC
SW 8400 1713 9427
More D-tilt right off the bat. It's preferable to B-air unless you need to fullhop your B-air to hit Wario behind you or you're punishing out of shield. Don't roll, just shield or Up-B. Wario's grab isn't a huge threat, he's never going to kill you after a grab. If you shield his F-smash, you can dashgrab him most of the time.

When you D-throwed Wario on the platform, your best option was U-tilt. This would have almost certainly killed him.

You should Jab more and look for grabs a bit more too.
 
Ruuku

Ruuku

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 5, 2006
Messages
1,643
Location
Kissimmee, FL
I'll try to talk about some other things since A2Z covered a lot of it.

1) I suggest that you work on your approach. G&W does have good aerials but you are almost completely dismissing his ground moves and his throw game.

2) I also think that you should work on your movement, which also relates to your approach. What I mostly saw was only empty SH or Bair. Maybe you should try being more comfortable on the ground and include air dodges as well as using platforms. For the most part it is that because of that, Masky was able to just react to what you would do or let you whiff then punish you.
 
P

Publix

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
135
Yeah, I definitely neglected dtilt. I just lost to his metaknight who would powershield my dtilt and punish me too much so i think i might have been conditioned a little from the last match. Thanks for the help. I'll do more upb outta shield, dtilt grabs, jabs. I'll money match him again soon and see if they can get it up there.
 
Splice

Splice

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 1, 2009
Messages
5,125
Location
AUS
To catch nades and throw them fast, u can press Z and then A (and input direction with A if u want)

I was practicing some snake stuff tonight and when i practiced this sometimes I drop the nade instead of throwing it (kinda like snake forcing the drop, except it wasnt that because i had control of the snake and apart from just throwing the nade and waiting there were no inputs)

What input mistake am i making when this happens?

Also apart from bacon, can we blow nades up with an attack if its spaced REALLY well, and not get hit?

ty
 
SpeedyJ

SpeedyJ

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 17, 2011
Messages
269
Location
Auckland, NZ
I can't believe I have to ask this again lol
Do you guys consider Yoshi's Island to be a good or bad stage against Falco? There seems to be disagreements in the G&W MU thread and I thought it would be better to clear it up here.

Thank you.

Edit: Splice, what about the tilts? Especially D-Tilt? I haven't tried it myself but it seems like we can blow nades up with it without hurting ourselves.
 
Splice

Splice

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 1, 2009
Messages
5,125
Location
AUS
YI bad for falco.

The wall ledge makes him easier to gimp, the platform helps us get past the lasers and the tilted ground i THINK means we can escape CG sometimes ?

he likes BF and SV and FD
but not this stage, its definitely better than those - for us
also the ceiling isnt too low, which is good coz falcos Usmash :(


I would not CP here though
I would not strike it though



I will test Dtilt. It's hard to be very sure
That was the smaller question though, i can test that.

I really can't figure out why the nades are dropping... when i do Z and then A direction to fast throw with no snake input
 
Splice

Splice

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 1, 2009
Messages
5,125
Location
AUS
UTDZac said:
So why is G&W 13th on the new tier list.
Click to expand...
It's terrible isn't it?

You should do something about it. :reverse:



So why are the nades dropping when i press Z+A to fast throw them, whats the mistake im making? V___V
 
Splice

Splice

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 1, 2009
Messages
5,125
Location
AUS
I have control of snake so its not that

Im using Z to catch, A + direction to throw

I think i might be somehow rolling my finger on Z so i press it twice before i press A
But even when I force a firm press on Z and let go, it can still happen

I'm just wondering if I can get a bunch of reasons why this might happen so I can see where the *********** on my part lies. >___<

Also, turns out none of our attacks blow up nades safely.
 
MysteryRevengerson

MysteryRevengerson

IT'S A MYSTERY TO ALL
Joined
Nov 19, 2009
Messages
3,029
Location
VA baby whe' you at
Well, I use Z+C Stick, lemme think...

Well, if the grenade's being dropped, that's because of Zdrop...I honestly can't think of a lot of ways this is happening, especially if the grenade's not being thrown at all...

Sorry bud
 
Splice

Splice

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 1, 2009
Messages
5,125
Location
AUS
Must just be me being bad with the Z button :p

I'll try Z+C stick regardless, tho, it seems easier anyway, and can free up the control stick a bit more so i can fastfall or jump as i throw.

Thanks for responding at all lol <3
 
Splice

Splice

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 1, 2009
Messages
5,125
Location
AUS
! WARIO !

Guys I need some last minute help with the Wario MU before a major in 4 days

I'm looking at some outdated threads and vids on these boards
wondering if theres any recent matches of GaW defeating dat Wario and vids

Or pro tips that anyone has in particular that they've picked up

Or a delicious bite-size paragraph from UTD Zac that always helps so much

thankyou <3
 
Alphicans

Alphicans

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 11, 2007
Messages
9,291
Location
Edmonton, AB
Idk if you'll know what I am talking about, but I find that in this match-up especially, throwing out moves that might hit, or moves that are there just to wall off your opponent is not a good idea. You can still wall out wario, but you should only react to his movements. Also be prepared to angle upB OoS so you can always hit him.

That's all I really got lol.
 
Splice

Splice

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 1, 2009
Messages
5,125
Location
AUS
Thanks.

Alphicans could you elaborate? because I do try to space Wario with attacks that dont hit and that could be where I'm going on. Should empty short hop instead or basically just be very minimal with attacks in general?
 
Alphicans

Alphicans

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 11, 2007
Messages
9,291
Location
Edmonton, AB
Yeah something more like that. I feel Wario can punish your attacks much easier than most characters, due to his air speed. Also, I've been wafted out of my bair when I thought I was relatively safe, and got killed at like 80%.

The matches should last a very long time, and ideally should end in a time out. Just react to his movements, and throw out moves very sparingly.
 
Splice

Splice

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 1, 2009
Messages
5,125
Location
AUS
ok awesome

A few additional questions

What attacks do we have that outprioritize or outspace his Bite?
Can I Fsmash him out of Bike?
How to beat Uair?
Is our Grab Range bigger than his (i doubt it) ?

Is Dair useful in this MU, Maki used it a lot

The Wario im facing is the campiest campy camping camper
Any vids of GaW dealing with this would also help

That's pretty much it.

Thanks again Alphi <3
 
Alphicans

Alphicans

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 11, 2007
Messages
9,291
Location
Edmonton, AB
I am pretty sure bair should go through bite as long as you get it at max range. Bite should only be an issue when he bites your dodge/roll/shield, or reads you well. Idk if you can fsmash him out of bike... Like on some angles I am sure, but generally he just tanks it. What you can do is grab him out of it though, so I'd just do that.

Uair? Beating dair with his uair requires a bit of tricky spacing, and if you mix up for fall speed, hitting him with dair is fairly easy. If you're that worried, I'd just b-reversal chef away from him, and bair down. Our grab range isn't bigger than his, and his shield grab is amazing.

Overall I find dair really useful, but if you're using it a lot, he'll definitely **** you, and can waft you right out of it.
 
SugarPhil

SugarPhil

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 24, 2011
Messages
73
Location
South East London, Lewisham
Is it just me when your edge hogging and marth is purposely staying in the middle of the stage jumping around, and you just want to d air him ? T_T

Whats a good counter pick for marth? Because i use battlefield which is supposed to be a better stage for marth? Was thinking of using rainbow cruise/ride

Also against diddy, i think it was just me, its just that every time hes banana is in the air, i tried to neutral air to catch the bananas but most of the time i just got hit by them :/ Does air dodging work ? And when I do get a good momentum against diddy, i end up catching hes peanuts..
+ I find glide tossing ridiculously hard with him
 
nekokatsu

nekokatsu

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 2, 2009
Messages
92
against Marth, i think u should use something like frigate or delfino... i think, cuz i have no problem against Marth... if they abuse of Fair i Abuse of Fair, if they abuse of side B i DI out or Shield grab, and edgeguarding Marth its easy.

Grabbing bananas with neutral it takes practice, but nowadays i grab the bananas with Z (without doing air dodge), the easiest way to practice this is going to training mode, put a banana on the floor, and try to catch falling down on it with the Z button, u have to press the button when ure almost touching the banana, when u can do this, grabbing the banana with aerials will become nothing. other way to practice is tossing the banana in the air and try to catch with Z, if u do it right GW shouldnt air dodge, if u do it more or less, u should grab the banana but GW should air dodge, and if u do it wrong GW will not grab the banana xD
 
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