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Ask a Qusestion. Get an Answer.

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Why use utilt?
I can't see any situation when it is more viable than usmash.
Up smash and bair are your best kill moves, so you'll naturally want to keep them fresh. Utilt instead helps do that, and is great for setting up more aerial juggles with its lower knockback. I still don't use it terribly often, but it has its uses. I'm sure there are more reasons (priority stats and frame data perhaps? I'm not sure) but these are the best I know of.

EDIT: Usmash first hits on frame 8, utilt on frame 4.
I use it quite a bit and I love it. It's fast and hits in front of you. It can also kill at high percentages (around 150-160).
Utilt pokes through BF platforms and it knocks back on a good angle to bair or nair. It can be a decent OoS option, but nair is probably better..

Has anyone been getting fullhop bair to psuedo wave bounce laser lately? It seems like it has been happening a lot for me.

ooo. 1,111 posts lucky me.
@Lotopius: All of these reasons and more. Some more reasons to use Utilt is that it's a good move to punish air dodgers falling from toward you as it hit's multiple times. The hitbox goes behind, front and up above you. Dair > Utilt is a good method to juggle people. It's still a situational move, so use it at certain times that it will work and you won't get punished for it.

cool, so what percentage can he be laser locked at?
If I recall, you can start to LL DDD as soon as you reach around 47%+. So pretty much you just end the final dthrow at around 39% or so. Then you can start laser locking. I find the LL attempt works best on Pictochat given that DDD has more air time in comparison.
 

#HBC | ZoZo

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Buffer movement, then grab at the right moment.

Buffered as in you buffer something
Chaingrab as in you repeatedly grab something.

Intelligence is declining these days.
 

Yumewomiteru

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what happens when you buffer movement and grab during the buffer frames? would it only read movement or only read grab or read both?
 

DZhou

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Buffer movement, then grab at the right moment.

Buffered as in you buffer something
Chaingrab as in you repeatedly grab something.

Intelligence is declining these days.
Care to elaborate? because all I know is the cg in which u dash grab and the one in which you move the control-stick to the walking position while he is blasting the lasers.

So I'm assuming that u buffer a dash during the animation...?
 

Oreos

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It only reads the grab, i've accidently done that before with a walking cg and you look really stupid doing 2 grabs in the same place, not to mention easily punished.

@dzhou: yes <__<
 

#HBC | ZoZo

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You buffer the grab in the dash startup animation, if you want a perfect buffered CG, but that's unnecessary.

Just buffer the dash/walk.
 

Lord Chair

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It only reads the grab, i've accidently done that before with a walking cg and you look really stupid doing 2 grabs in the same place, not to mention easily punished.

@dzhou: yes <__<
Then how is it Wario's dthrow CG requires you to buffer both the turnaround and the grab at once? Unless there is some grave difference between Falco's and Wario's general character mechanics, I'm sure you can buffer multiple things at once so long as you're capable of doing those things at once.
 

Jon?

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On some characters you have to buffer the grab in order to CG them correctly. Olimar and Zero Suit Samus are good examples.
 

AvoiD

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That thing with D3, you don't have to BPG to do it. I swear I posted this in six's thread, but it's basically your left/right leg (opposite of the way your facing) should look like it's not standing on anything.

Try it and see. Boost pivot grab is flashier, and makes it easier to set up though.
 
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That thing with D3, you don't have to BPG to do it. I swear I posted this in six's thread, but it's basically your left/right leg (opposite of the way your facing) should look like it's not standing on anything.

Try it and see. Boost pivot grab is flashier, and makes it easier to set up though.
I dont' really know of any other way to set that up as easily as the BPG does. Rolling I know will place you on the very edge. But not sure of anything else.
 

Yumewomiteru

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Then how is it Wario's dthrow CG requires you to buffer both the turnaround and the grab at once? Unless there is some grave difference between Falco's and Wario's general character mechanics, I'm sure you can buffer multiple things at once so long as you're capable of doing those things at once.
Soooo I'm assuming then that dash/ turnaround + grab can be buffered, but walk + grab can't be buffered?
 

hippiedude92

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Hai there! I hope this board is active lol. So l was looking for a D3 counter and heard that Falco does pretty well against him and l looked at the discussion on D3 and only to find a few responses ._. and it's been 4 months since you've guys discussed D3 and l wanted to know the
most up to date matchup against D3, like the ratio, changes, the tools, what the match is about. l've heard the match ratio mostly comes from the chainspike, so l'd to know with and without chainspike if it's possible thanks.

also if it doesn't hurt too much, l'd like to know match vs snake/MK as well thanks.

trying to expect some productive answers since l main luigi/mario and looking for a secondary that can finally cover my bad matchups d3/snake/mk
 

BleachigoZX

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Falco vs DDD is bad for DDD.

It's like 80:20 bad, the only reason Falco will ever lose is because your playing with one hand. It's such a bad match-up. The concept of Falco's character flat out destroys DDD's concept.
 
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Falco vs DDD is bad for DDD.

It's like 80:20 bad, the only reason Falco will ever lose is because your playing with one hand. It's such a bad match-up. The concept of Falco's character flat out destroys DDD's concept.
Over exaggeration in the MU number if you ask me <_< I put it more at the 65:35 mark for Falco's advantage.

DDD

The at the bare bone pros and cons to the match are that DDD has a good weight, and Falco has little weight. DDD has a better recovery of getting to the stage, but I don't think that DDD has much to avoid constant edgeguarding with. Falco has a predictable recovery and a poor one. His killing abilites aren't the best, but neither does DDD have good killing abilites against Falco. Most KOs DDD would probably be getting are edgeguarding KOs and gimps. I dont see much that DDD has that can really kill falco easily. Smashes are slow, and throws are easily DIed. Only useful killing method he has are Utilt which relies upon baiting and fake-outs to land on falco.

Getting into the core of the MU, Falco out camps DDD with waddles, even gordo can be reflected. So because of this, DDD is more than likely going to have to approach. If he does, he will have a hard time getting past Falco's CQC game as his attacks come out faster than DDD can pull them out unless he spaces Falco at the edge of a Ftilt. The other issue is that DDD has a limited grab came against Falco as it cannot CG, but only tech chase. And Falco has a large number of Dthrow antics that can rack up damage on DDD easily.

The general habits in the game are that Falco is going to want to get DDD to approach using lasers. Which DDD will likely do by using powershielding and any waddles that are on the stage to get by this. After that Falco will be either resetting the camping using phantasm, or try to punish DDD's efforts to attack Falco. Of which AAA is great for avoiding the grab at close range. At far range, Ftilt can hit Falco, but reflector I believe outranges the ftilt barely. Either way, Ftilt doesn't do much damage. Dtilt can punish the phantasm usage. All this works great at shutting down DDD's attempts to hit Falco, but Falco still has a problem with killing. So DDD is going to be living to insane percents.

DDD's best hope is to just chase Falco down while avoiding as much damage as possible and try to get him off stage. If he can do that, Falco will have a hard time getting back on stage into a better position. Falco's CG won't be killing, but if done correctly will make damage racking on DDD so much easier and faster. Also, the spike is evil to DDD's UpB.

Meta Knight
MK vs Falco is more or less even. It's dependent upon if Falco can get that early CG to rack up damage quickly.

MK = recovery, gimps against falco
Falco = lasers, CG

MK's recovery makes it hard for falco to edgeguard him effectively, but with lasers it gives him the advantage during the ground game. CG will make it so that Falco can put MK from 0%-60% (if tech chased correctly). That's roughly half the percent need to KO MK with an upsmash. Add in another grab and follow up, you might maybe get another 15%. Lasers and phantasm adds up to fill in the rest of the percent. Next you just need to get the KO on MK which can be set-up with lasers or some other method.

MK has the advantage of speed, edgeguarding prowess and keeping the pressure on. If Falco does manage to slip up, MK can punish him, but if Falco is good enough to avoid the natural set-ups that MK has, Falco can avoid getting offstage and gimped and live to high percents.

Snake
Snake vs Falco is also evenish. People will argue it's someone's advantage, I say it's 55:45 as Snake simply can kill us faster than we can kill him. Live to longer percents. (This match-up is being brought up a lot)

To save time, Falco can punish Snake easily offstage and with the help of a CG can rack up damage most effectively. He has the potiental to outcamp Snake if he chooses to use grenades. Lasers/reflector can mess up snake's timing, and bounce back any grenades that aren't cooked enough. Crouching though is the problem. With it, Snake can react to anything you try to do, it's difficult mind you to keep up though because of the mix-up game that Falco has.

Snake however has the power (pretty much all his attacks do ~10% of damage), and surviability. So while Falco can rack up damage on Snake quickly, Snake takes so much damage before dying that he can pace with Falco for damage to get Falco into KO range.
 

BleachigoZX

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DDD should never even touch a good Falco, our lasers shut out this character. Combined with our Jab, CG-Spike, LLCombos. DDD doesn't stand a chance.


Also we have 0-death if the DDD attempts to Meteor Cancel our CG Spike.
 
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DDD should never even touch a good Falco, our lasers shut out this character. Combined with our Jab, CG-Spike, LLCombos. DDD doesn't stand a chance.


Also we have 0-death if the DDD attempts to Meteor Cancel our CG Spike.
The problem I see is getting the kill. It's hard to get the kill with Falco against an experience opponent. They show little windows for allowing themself to get killed. I see that problem with a number of characters. Luigi is the same way from what I've noticed. He can kill early, but pretty much his only attacks to kill with are smashes, which I do believe cannot be lead into at KO percents. So when I face luigi I know they will try to get the kill and staying out of there range is the key to avoid being hit. Lasers mess up approaches, DownB is painful to deal with, but with DI you can escape it and only take like 3% of damage. His smashes have enough lag to punish him with. He cannot really shield grab anyone effectively because of the slide, so a number of well spaced attacks are unpunishable on block. The annoying thing is when you do get hit, you can get comboed and juggled all day long.
 

SuSa

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GL laser camping me that much. Brent already tried that.

You know what happened?

2-1 in winners, 3-1 in grand finals (he beat me with MK against my IC's.... wooooo. I then beat his MK on RC. MY COUNTERPICK)

Campiest Falco I've ever played.
 
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If you laser camp long enough Uptilt and Dash attack will kill him, also your moves should still be fresh.

Also Luigi is broken...
It doesn't help that Dash attack and Uptilt are pretty much vertical knockback moves. Who has the most knockback resistance to verical moves, DDD. Include DI, you won't be killing DDD until well into the 200% range and beyond. But putting that aside, no one is perfect. Your likely to mess up at one point, and DDD can punish that.

GL laser camping me that much. Brent already tried that.

You know what happened?

2-1 in winners, 3-1 in grand finals (he beat me with MK against my IC's.... wooooo. I then beat his MK on RC. MY COUNTERPICK)

Campiest Falco I've ever played.
I don't ever want to have a gay falco. Campy is fine, but not gay campy. Gay campy is just too boring to try. I sort of tried it against SuSa last we did matches, but I couldn't do it indefinitly.
 

BleachigoZX

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Gay Campy + Phantasm is where it's at. Not only are you far away and safe but you inflict like 10% everytime you switch sides.

Also you don't Gay Camp a MK/Snake, you'd lose.

I'm still thinking about how to properly play MK, he has too many options. But if you pull a % lead you force approaches. MK's sorta don't like that situation.

Snake, just stand there and react off what he does, he has way too much crap for you to outplay him, just jabjabjab and reflector every Cooked Gernade so that your reflector is at the farthest possible point from Falco when has to throw them. It's a bad way of playing Snake, so I just try to mix it up a lot.

Random Snake thing all Snakes should do:
When there is a gernade on the floor (An attempt to break the CG) mash out. So many idiot Snakes seriously think no one can see gernade and that Falco cannot follow up.

Snake does really well against a Campy Gay Falco though, MK does too.

DDD doesn't he can't put himself in a positive situation unless Falco is offstage, which happens often at mid-%. He can litteraly cover all of Falcos options from a ledge grabbing Falco.
 

SuSa

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You realize that's exactly what Brent did? Gay Campy + IAP to other side? I still beat him, with 2 stocks left. If I stopped missing ftilts (I kept buffering a jab facing the wrong way) it would've been by more. The only way he ever KO'd is when I missed a shield on a laser and then he did a DACUS. Which most I was able to shield and punish him for.

Falco's moves for KO's are far to telegraphed and everything except bair and gimps (or chainspikes) are easy to avoid. You seriously think you'll get me with a DACUS or Fsmash? Seriously?

Snake:
Crouch at start of match and avoid your baits. I'll go for a draw. Go off-stage to b-reverse laser? AWWW you just ****ed yourself. Come a little to close? AWWWW you just ****ed yourself. IAP to approach? AWWW you just ****ed yourself.
"Good game ya stupid Bird"
 
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Snake:
Crouch at start of match and avoid your baits. I'll go for a draw. Go off-stage to b-reverse laser? AWWW you just ****ed yourself. Come a little to close? AWWWW you just ****ed yourself. IAP to approach? AWWW you just ****ed yourself.
"Good game ya stupid Bird"
You must hate the matches we do SuSa. Snake dittos you dispise, and Falco matches you deplore.:laugh:
 

BleachigoZX

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Is the match on Youtube? I want to see it.

I also don't know Susa, I think Falco slightly wins the match-up, you can't really do much from a crouch. Your options are limited.

Also grabbing helps a lot in this match-up, for both characters.
 

AvoiD

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So I played a Snake today. Seemed like he knew the matchup.

Don't play campy over aggresive. Don't play aggresive over campy. It will get you *****.

Trust me. I'm a pretty good Snake imo, and I thought I had the matchup down pretty well. The only way to win, is to mix it up. Jumping. Shooting during jumps. Lasers. Full Hops and Short Hops. Bair spacing.

When you get him off stage, go for a gimp. If you can predict an fmash as to where he will land, go for it.

Do not play exactly the way you play against other characters. I'll try and get a set up of what I mean soon.
 
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So I played a Snake today. Seemed like he knew the matchup.

Don't play campy over aggresive. Don't play aggresive over campy. It will get you *****.

Trust me. I'm a pretty good Snake imo, and I thought I had the matchup down pretty well. The only way to win, is to mix it up. Jumping. Shooting during jumps. Lasers. Full Hops and Short Hops. Bair spacing.

When you get him off stage, go for a gimp. If you can predict an fmash as to where he will land, go for it.

Do not play exactly the way you play against other characters. I'll try and get a set up of what I mean soon.
Just as the anoynomous Falco said. Mix up is beast.
 

SuSa

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You must hate the matches we do SuSa. Snake dittos you dispise, and Falco matches you deplore.:laugh:
If you mean to consider unfortunate for the Falco, then yes.

I smile when people go Falco against me in tournament it's like signing me a certificate saying "Get Out of Jail Free"

Jail, being Loser's Bracket.

Is the match up? I want to see it.
What? Next time I face a Falco... I'll try and record it (offline).

Preferably one with Brent and one with another Falco.

EDIT 2:
We can do everything from a crouch. :| Anyone who says it limits our options doesn't play Snake enough... DACUS from crouch when you mess up your spacing is too good. dtilt when you mis-space an IAP. Powershield, shield drop, ftilt if you spaced it properly. SH over low shot lasers, airdodge if you shoot a second on landing on stage. recrouch.

EDIT 3:
Yep. Falco wins. That's why I've only lose to 1 Falco by more then a stock in the past few months. Many of these matches being in tournament. That's why I CP Falco's to Japes (or let them pick Japes by banning something stupid, like Lylat Cruise (tilting = no crouching for me ;) )

EDIT 1:
Kuro's got this

EDIT 4:
TBH, your best bet is to go Yoshi's Island or Lylat Cruise. We can't crouch to avoid the lasers, essentially forcing us to approach from the start. Just a heads up. I'd rathers you take me to Japes then either of these stages.
 
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EDIT 2:
We can do everything from a crouch. :| Anyone who says it limits our options doesn't play Snake enough... DACUS from crouch when you mess up your spacing is too good. dtilt when you mis-space an IAP. Powershield, shield drop, ftilt if you spaced it properly. SH over low shot lasers, airdodge if you shoot a second on landing on stage. recrouch.

The only thing I feel it limits is going backwards.

EDIT 3:
Yep. Falco wins. That's why I've only lose to 1 Falco by more then a stock in the past few months. Many of these matches being in tournament. That's why I CP Falco's to Japes (or let them pick Japes by banning something stupid, like Lylat Cruise (tilting = no crouching for me ;) )

I fail or something on JJ, wifi messes me up at the most annoying times. And I forget about the klaps at times. One guy even got a vid of me getting spiked by the klap trap in the first 10 seconds of the match when using MK.

EDIT 4:
TBH, your best bet is to go Yoshi's Island or Lylat Cruise. We can't crouch to avoid the lasers, essentially forcing us to approach from the start. Just a heads up. I'd rathers you take me to Japes then either of these stages.

False. YI can be crouched if Snake is in the dead center of the stage. Lylat depends upon the tilt.
 

Teran

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I also don't know Susa, I think Falco slightly wins the match-up, you can't really do much from a crouch. Your options are limited.
It's surprisingly effective.
You have to experience what SuSa's saying to understand.
 

SuSa

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We do not want to be in the center of the stage on YI. Trust me, it's a bad spot.

It doesn't even really limit going backwards......

lol wifi... I'm talking about offline. XD


Also about your IAP camping. We can shield drop a grenade, then shield dash up to you. You IAP and get hit by a grenade or you get punished by us otherwise.

Snake can grab release chaingrab Falco for damage, and we can end it into a mine. Which is guarenteed KO at around 134%~ IIRC. So be careful if we grab you. We can also do this and dthrow you at the ledge. You have an away-towards attack, the ledge limits your only good option (forward roll) and we get to react to what you do. Meaning NO MATTER WHAT you should be getting punished.

Snake KO's sooner, and our utilt hits you out of many of your attacks.

<_< Theres some food for thought.

EDIT:
I think Velox and Teran are the only ones to experience the surprising effectiveness that is "Hidden Snake, Crouching..... Snake"
 

Teran

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Lol. Hidden Snake. You usually wave it out in the open SuSa.

Anyway, Snake does have a lot of options out of his crouch, so it all becomes an epic and somewhat tedious battle of wits.
 
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Lol. Hidden Snake. You usually wave it out in the open SuSa.

Anyway, Snake does have a lot of options out of his crouch, so it all becomes an epic and somewhat tedious battle of wits.
Snake can pretty much do anyting out of the crouch. You just have to factor in a few frames for getting up to perform some of them.
 

Teran

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Snake can pretty much do anyting out of the crouch. You just have to factor in a few frames for getting up to perform some of them.
Shuttle Loop out of crouch really pisses me off. :p
 
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Shuttle Loop out of crouch really pisses me off. :p
:laugh: Falco boards are certainly entertaining. They all have witty tongues xD

Pretty much the frames for standing up aren't that much. Dashing and shielding ignore standing up frames if I recall since they can be activated in the crouch. Others you have to interrupt holding down on the control stick before you can do anything. But the good thing about this is that you can cancel out any standing up frames. So pretty much that means you can jab, ftilt, uptilt without having to completely stand up before executing the move.

So crouching really isn't that limiting.
 

hippiedude92

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Over exaggeration in the MU number if you ask me <_< I put it more at the 65:35 mark for Falco's advantage.

DDD

The at the bare bone pros and cons to the match are that DDD has a good weight, and Falco has little weight. DDD has a better recovery of getting to the stage, but I don't think that DDD has much to avoid constant edgeguarding with. Falco has a predictable recovery and a poor one. His killing abilites aren't the best, but neither does DDD have good killing abilites against Falco. Most KOs DDD would probably be getting are edgeguarding KOs and gimps. I dont see much that DDD has that can really kill falco easily. Smashes are slow, and throws are easily DIed. Only useful killing method he has are Utilt which relies upon baiting and fake-outs to land on falco.

Mkays thanks alot for answering my question with concrete facts and evidence and what not. I hope my post won't seem flame like, most likely because my knowledge of Falco doesn't go very deep xD, and it's a daunting task to find a good secondary whose worthy lol >.>

if you don't mind helping a fellow newb out lol what does CQC and er I think IAP stand for? D:

See the problem I'm having with this matchup is that, the way I look at it, it's just that l don't completely agree that D3 has terrible killing abilities, maybe I think you mean kill options or is that different? Because, you say DDD doesn't have good killing abilities against Falco, but he really kills Falco pretty early imo with a utilt, considering Falco's light and kept fresh, it can kill Falco early is the problem to me. Getting killed by your opponent early and you still trying to kill your opponent after taking some %s when hes at high %s means alot to me imo. Otherwise, l think D3's dsmash is pretty viable as kill move, but that's totally random LOL, might be just me being lucky XD. Besides all of that, unless your implying on HOW HE'LL GET the kill move, then you can somewhat exclude my whole wall of text T.T Other wise, l agree and understand what you said. Thanks bro.






Getting into the core of the MU, Falco out camps DDD with waddles, even gordo can be reflected. So because of this, DDD is more than likely going to have to approach. If he does, he will have a hard time getting past Falco's CQC game as his attacks come out faster than DDD can pull them out unless he spaces Falco at the edge of a Ftilt. The other issue is that DDD has a limited grab came against Falco as it cannot CG, but only tech chase. And Falco has a large number of Dthrow antics that can rack up damage on DDD easily.

Yeah CQC stand for again? T.T. and doesn't D3's jab or bair outrange Falco up close/mid range? I mean D3's disjointed and all , just asking tho. aside from that, l'll agree and understand what u say.



The general habits in the game are that Falco is going to want to get DDD to approach using lasers. Which DDD will likely do by using powershielding and any waddles that are on the stage to get by this. After that Falco will be either resetting the camping using phantasm, or try to punish DDD's efforts to attack Falco. Of which AAA is great for avoiding the grab at close range. At far range, Ftilt can hit Falco, but reflector I believe outranges the ftilt barely. Either way, Ftilt doesn't do much damage. Dtilt can punish the phantasm usage. All this works great at shutting down DDD's attempts to hit Falco, but Falco still has a problem with killing. So DDD is going to be living to insane percents.

I don't know, maybe because l have good tech skill in precision as if it mattered in Brawl, l haven't had much of a problem with Falco's lasers in terms of powershielding, esp with d3 lol, kinda easy imo, but then again this is just experience and doesn't tell a matchup theorycrafting (arghlol) >.>.

DDD's best hope is to just chase Falco down while avoiding as much damage as possible and try to get him off stage. If he can do that, Falco will have a hard time getting back on stage into a better position. Falco's CG won't be killing, but if done correctly will make damage racking on DDD so much easier and faster. Also, the spike is evil to DDD's UpB.

]So Falco will have to be strong staying on-stage and not get hit offstage or else he'll eat a ton of damage, and get gimped pretty much the matchup correct? And Falco will be camping with the lasers, and resetting the situation with his phantasm and punishing laggy moves by D3 with Falco's close combat game right? Idk, aside from that 0-80% or w/e, should it matter much to D3? I mean he literally lives forever with good DI so it seems like a 80% CG to him seems like 20% damage to a D3 lol. Idk, I'm thinking like a DK atm xD.

So all in all, really comes to camping, resetting and punishing and not getting hit offstage. Wow somehow.. that's a boring matchup to play lmao... So aside from the CG, @ the @ core of the matchup, it really goes go 6/4 Falco?


Meta Knight
MK vs Falco is more or less even. It's dependent upon if Falco can get that early CG to rack up damage quickly.

MK = recovery, gimps against falco
Falco = lasers, CG

MK's recovery makes it hard for falco to edgeguard him effectively, but with lasers it gives him the advantage during the ground game. CG will make it so that Falco can put MK from 0%-60% (if tech chased correctly). That's roughly half the percent need to KO MK with an upsmash. Add in another grab and follow up, you might maybe get another 15%. Lasers and phantasm adds up to fill in the rest of the percent. Next you just need to get the KO on MK which can be set-up with lasers or some other method.

MK has the advantage of speed, edgeguarding prowess and keeping the pressure on. If Falco does manage to slip up, MK can punish him, but if Falco is good enough to avoid the natural set-ups that MK has, Falco can avoid getting offstage and gimped and live to high percents.

Snake
Snake vs Falco is also evenish. People will argue it's someone's advantage, I say it's 55:45 as Snake simply can kill us faster than we can kill him. Live to longer percents. (This match-up is being brought up a lot)

To save time, Falco can punish Snake easily offstage and with the help of a CG can rack up damage most effectively. He has the potiental to outcamp Snake if he chooses to use grenades. Lasers/reflector can mess up snake's timing, and bounce back any grenades that aren't cooked enough. Crouching though is the problem. With it, Snake can react to anything you try to do, it's difficult mind you to keep up though because of the mix-up game that Falco has.

Snake however has the power (pretty much all his attacks do ~10% of damage), and surviability. So while Falco can rack up damage on Snake quickly, Snake takes so much damage before dying that he can pace with Falco for damage to get Falco into KO range.
Answers are in green.

Bleach somehow, l was gonna to say that Falco boards are never serious and suck crap lolz jk

The problem I see is getting the kill. It's hard to get the kill with Falco against an experience opponent. They show little windows for allowing themself to get killed. I see that problem with a number of characters. Luigi is the same way from what I've noticed. He can kill early, but pretty much his only attacks to kill with are smashes, which I do believe cannot be lead into at KO percents. So when I face luigi I know they will try to get the kill and staying out of there range is the key to avoid being hit. Lasers mess up approaches, DownB is painful to deal with, but with DI you can escape it and only take like 3% of damage. His smashes have enough lag to punish him with. He cannot really shield grab anyone effectively because of the slide, so a number of well spaced attacks are unpunishable on block. The annoying thing is when you do get hit, you can get comboed and juggled all day long.
That's basically it. Our board is discussing that right now, in high level play, in a last hit 1v1 last stock situation majority of the time, your opponent will far more careful and somewhat nervous, but many or if not few luigis like myself LOVE to take advantage of your opponent's fear factor. Just jabbing them once and seeing them put up their shield in far helps alot. Also your opponent (falco der der) will be playing campy/defensive as much as possible to look for that kill.

Sometimes, when it comes down to those tight matchs, Falco's would be in neutral stance staying one spot camping with sh lasers, and l usually end up being focused as **** and powershield everything he throws and when you see him go for that DAC, you powershield and punish. Of course l overly emphasize on powershielding... because it's a MUST for a Luigi lol..

Fishing for the kill, luigis do have that problem. hopefully u guys can help with yours too if you look at our thread xD

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=242012

Also, luigi doesn't have a hard time shieldgrabbing if he predicts/powershielding/oos tornado/spotdodge to cancel traction. and his smashs end pretty quick like his up angled fsmash, and even if you do shield it, you'll be knocked away alot. Just saying


If you laser camp long enough Uptilt and Dash attack will kill him, also your moves should still be fresh.

Also Luigi is broken...
lol. lf l'd go to no maps in Nj l'd be happy to mm you with my luigi. Powershielding all dai son lolz.
 

Teran

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CQC = Close Quarter Combat
IAP = Immediate Aerial Phantasm.
 
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Wall of Text 1)

Mkays thanks alot for answering my question with concrete facts and evidence and what not. I hope my post won't seem flame like, most likely because my knowledge of Falco doesn't go very deep xD, and it's a daunting task to find a good secondary whose worthy lol >.>

if you don't mind helping a fellow newb out lol what does CQC and er I think IAP stand for? D:

See the problem I'm having with this matchup is that, the way I look at it, it's just that l don't completely agree that D3 has terrible killing abilities, maybe I think you mean kill options or is that different? Because, you say DDD doesn't have good killing abilities against Falco, but he really kills Falco pretty early imo with a utilt, considering Falco's light and kept fresh, it can kill Falco early is the problem to me. Getting killed by your opponent early and you still trying to kill your opponent after taking some %s when hes at high %s means alot to me imo. Otherwise, l think D3's dsmash is pretty viable as kill move, but that's totally random LOL, might be just me being lucky XD. Besides all of that, unless your implying on HOW HE'LL GET the kill move, then you can somewhat exclude my whole wall of text T.T Other wise, l agree and understand what you said. Thanks bro.

Reply to wall of text 1) I was referring to "getting the kill". DDD can kill pretty early, but it's hard to land it against Falco, in my opinion. Utilt pretty much only works when Falco is right in his face, or above him. And Falco knows that getting grabbed will place him into either a tech chase, or offstage where he can be edgeguarded. So Falco should be spacing just outside of DDDs range using his various moves. If Falco knows DDD needs to get that KO, this makes DDD predictable. If you look at the other KO moves he has they dont' help get the Kill as very easily. Dash Attack, Smashes and Bair are pretty much the only KO moves that DDD has to kill with. Apart from Bair, all of them can be avoided through decent spacing. Throws don't really kill too often unless at high percents or a mistake in DI. And Bair really won't be killing unless Falco is in a bad situation to being with, such as getting edgeguarded.

Wall of Text 2) Yeah CQC stand for again? T.T. and doesn't D3's jab or bair outrange Falco up close/mid range? I mean D3's disjointed and all , just asking tho. aside from that, l'll agree and understand what u say.

Replay to wall of text 2) CQC = close quarter combat. D3's jab is rather slow, so more than likely it will be hit first, or shielded. And Bair can be shielded or more than likely will be shot done with lasers. Yes, they do work, but Falco still has the ability to stay out of the range of these moves and move in to punish. Falco has the ability to make DDD make the first move instead of Falco meaning Falco can punish it in some way.

Wall of Text 3) I don't know, maybe because l have good tech skill in precision as if it mattered in Brawl, l haven't had much of a problem with Falco's lasers in terms of powershielding, esp with d3 lol, kinda easy imo, but then again this is just experience and doesn't tell a matchup theorycrafting (arghlol) >.>.

Reply to wall of text 3) All the lasers are really meant to do is to force your approach, lead into attacks, and disrupt you. But even if you PS them you are more than likely making the first move to try to attack out of the shield and thus falco. But by the time the laser is PSed falco will be on the ground and in control of what he can do. Which is react to whatever DDD ends up doing.

Wall of Text 4)
So Falco will have to be strong staying on-stage and not get hit offstage or else he'll eat a ton of damage, and get gimped pretty much the matchup correct? And Falco will be camping with the lasers, and resetting the situation with his phantasm and punishing laggy moves by D3 with Falco's close combat game right? Idk, aside from that 0-80% or w/e, should it matter much to D3? I mean he literally lives forever with good DI so it seems like a 80% CG to him seems like 20% damage to a D3 lol. Idk, I'm thinking like a DK atm xD.

So all in all, really comes to camping, resetting and punishing and not getting hit offstage. Wow somehow.. that's a boring matchup to play lmao... So aside from the CG, @ the @ core of the matchup, it really goes go 6/4 Falco?

Reply to wall of text 4) Pretty much that last bit explains it. Falco camps and spaces DDD to win the match-up. CG isn't mandatory for the MU I think, but it helps so much when Falco gets 60%+ in damage at one time. It speeds things up considerably. Plus, it's a great method to get an early KO with. The CG > Spike offstage can set DDD up for getting KOed right then and there as BleachigoZX said.

Edit: "Ask a qusestion. Get a simple answer." I think the titles should be changed to Ask a qusestion. Get a wall of text xD
 

BleachigoZX

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I don't know...I mean I rarely lose to Snakes as well. ('Cept Anti and Inui's, I think I've beten every other Snake mainer in NJ already)
Maybe it's the playstyle being that Snake is so flexible, I can see what Susa means though. I also "Secondary" (Though I go straight Falco no matter what) Snake.
 
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