Ask a Qusestion. Get an Answer.

[Denzi]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure they can jump out if you BPG. I think Wario can too.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure they can jump out if you BPG. I think Wario can too.

And the ironic thing? No one has yet to make a list of the people we can and cannot BPG.

Nice, Vlade was made a mod. We need mods here... On second thought, Vlade is always pointing out how lazy he is

 

[Teran]

Our mod is Mini Mic.

Still, I thought every board had its own discussion leader? That seems to be Blad's role, but I haven't seen him round here so often these days.

Lol I can't talk either

If you REALLY want, I might make a thread, but then I'd need dedicated testers, I don't think I can stand doing it all myself, I have exams to pass. O__O

 

[Denzi]

Our mod is Mini Mic.

Still, I thought every board had its own discussion leader? That seems to be Blad's role, but I haven't seen him round here so often these days.

Lol I can't talk either

If you REALLY want, I might make a thread, but then I'd need dedicated testers, I don't think I can stand doing it all myself, I have exams to pass. O__O

Mini Mic is our mod, correct. Vlade is apparently a mod in the Brawl Videos and Other Media section.

Yeah, it'd be nice to see Blad around more, or at least have someone take his place.

 

[Teran]

I'll do it, if you guys don't hate me for it.

The Match Up Discussion needs some steamrollering forward lol.

 

[Denzi]

I'll do it, if you guys don't hate me for it.

The Match Up Discussion needs some steamrollering forward lol.

Do it, we won't hate you.

 

[Teran]

Do it, we won't hate you.

Ok then, but I'll let Mini Mic edit the OPs of Blad's threads until he decides to come back from his little break.

I'm not taking over first post unless he wants me to. :O

I'll start an Ike Matchup thread now (lols)

 

[Denzi]

General qusestion:

IF an attack hits you straight into the corner, how do you DI? Do you just not and Momentum Cancel as usual?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

General qusestion:

IF an attack hits you straight into the corner, how do you DI? Do you just not and Momentum Cancel as usual?

Well every stage is different and therefore the ceiling and sides will likely be different lengths. I doubt there is a single stage where the corner you get shot towards is of equal length for both. If they were I would say just momentum cancel as usual and not DI. If not DI towards the area still that gives you the most relief.

Although I feel that vertical knockback still gets reduced a whole lot more than horizontal, so I always seem to DI up just a bit more to get more reduced knockback.

Edit: A thing that's been bugging me. The boards have become a bit quiet....

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

This is not neccesarily a Falco question, but I've been having bad luck getting it answered, so don't hate me please =)

DI, when to use DI? When I'm about to get hit I usually grab my shield button to airdodge or shield the hit, if I get hit even though I tried to block it I try to DI but it's usually to late, so what's the purpose of DI?

 

[Nyjin]

You DI to get out of moves like Snake's N-air and to survive for longer percentages. For example:

1. Snake u-tilts you at 100ish percent, you would normally die if you didn't touch your controller for the duration.

2. DI to the Left/Right and away? You can survive the hit because you reduce the distance and try to get back on stage to (obviously) fight some more.

That's basically it in a nutshell.

 

[Teran]

What would you guys think if I put in a few thoughts and wrapped up Ike and moved on to a new character? Ike doesn't need much discussion imo, so it would be nice to just power our way through this stuff to make up for lost time.

So, who do you suggest next? I was thinking Luigi or Sonic. Any particular preferences for you guys?

 

[Purple]

What would you guys think if I put in a few thoughts and wrapped up Ike and moved on to a new character? Ike doesn't need much discussion imo, so it would be nice to just power our way through this stuff to make up for lost time.

So, who do you suggest next? I was thinking Luigi or Sonic. Any particular preferences for you guys?

I would love to have luigi discussion first. He kills way earlier against falco, and falco has a chaingrab to maybe two grabs because of luigi's neutral a. it's a good matchup to know

 

[Denzi]

Yeah, finish up Ike and move on to Luigi, he's a lot more dangerous than Sonic.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

You DI to get out of moves like Snake's N-air and to survive for longer percentages. For example:

1. Snake u-tilts you at 100ish percent, you would normally die if you didn't touch your controller for the duration.

2. DI to the Left/Right and away? You can survive the hit because you reduce the distance and try to get back on stage to (obviously) fight some more.

That's basically it in a nutshell.

I can see it work on multihits, but most of the time multihits dont have that much knockback though :/ I still grab for my L/R button instead of sticks

 

[Mini Mic]

I added the links to the Luigi and Ike threads to http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=167202 let me know when you get the numbers up so I can add them unless Blad01 gets around to it first. Also Teran, you've listed Ike and Luigi as weeks 23 and 24 respectively but the match up thread only goes to 23, do you know who's missing?

If you need anything else please don't hesitate to ask.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Question: CG > Dair > FF > Uptilt guranteed if tech failed?

 

[Denzi]

Question: CG > Dair > FF > Uptilt guranteed if tech failed?

Umm... If tech failed, then won't they be on the ground where Utilt will likely miss?

Edit:

I added the links to the Luigi and Ike threads to http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=167202 let me know when you get the numbers up so I can add them unless Blad01 gets around to it first. Also Teran, you've listed Ike and Luigi as weeks 23 and 24 respectively but the match up thread only goes to 23, do you know who's missing?

If you need anything else please don't hesitate to ask.

I'm pretty sure that since Blad wasn't updating fast enough, we discussed the ZSS matchup in the main matchup thread, so there's your missing week.

And could you update the chart, or else just remove it? Some of the matchups are wrong and throws a lot of people off.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Umm... If tech failed, then won't they be on the ground where Utilt will likely miss?

Actually no. I've done this a few times myself among human players and CPUs. Brawl characters both large and small. For some reason if you FF and land just in front of them (which is really likely to happen) the uptilt will actually make contact with them when lying on the ground. And since it's 3 frames faster than dsmash and sets up into the air it's a pretty good usage. It just seems to work so well I thought it might be a guranteed combo. Turn around jab might be better, but that relys on them to mess up after the jab, With uptilt it would hit in just about the same time (I think turning around might take 2 frames + 2 frame jab equals uptilt starts: frame 4).

 

[Denzi]

Actually no. I've done this a few times myself among human players and CPUs. Brawl characters both large and small. For some reason if you FF and land just in front of them (which is really likely to happen) the uptilt will actually make contact with them when lying on the ground. And since it's 3 frames faster than dsmash and sets up into the air it's a pretty good usage. It just seems to work so well I thought it might be a guranteed combo. Turn around jab might be better, but that relys on them to mess up after the jab, With uptilt it would hit in just about the same time (I think turning around might take 2 frames + 2 frame jab equals uptilt starts: frame 4).

Idk then, I guess it'd work. Probably not a true combo though.

 

[Vlade]

Help:

What should I do when a toon link is constantly pressuring me with nairs, bairs, fairs, zairs and quickdrawn arrows whilst maintaining such impeccable spacing that I can't shieldgrab?

As soon as I come out of my shield I get hit by a barrage of attacks.

I've thought perhaps SH dair out of shield the toon link decides to crossover bair me twice (I dair before he does his second bair) might work.

Help please?

 

[Denzi]

Umm... stay away/out of his range (camp like a *****)?

That'd work, and if you're in close, IAP OoS should be able to punish most of what he can do because of its sheer speed and the invincibility during the first half.

Face away from him before you shield and Bair OoS.

(I don't really play TLinks, so they're just guesses)

 

[Vlade]

What happens is I IAP away, he spotdodges the IAP and then chases me immediately after, shutting down my ideal spacing.

I guess I should try it OoS though. And camp like a *****



Is there a clear-cut solution for toon link's zair other than reflector?

I've avoided using the reflector as an anti-zair move, but it's possible that it could be effective if you predict correctly? I'm not sure.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Meh, I wouldn't really recommend reflector for it, it's long duration and punishable cooldown could be easily punished and easily baited through empty SHs. Z Air's just really good, fast and ranged with little after lag. If all else fails, keep out of it's range and camp lasers : D.

I'd normally not recommend spotdodge in many situations, but seeing as how Falco has the joint best in the game I think it's allowed. When the Toon goes for the aerial on your shield, spotdodge to whatever floats your boat (jab, grab, SH N/B/D Air). And of course if it's not spaced correctly you can cut the spotdodge out completely and simply punish OOS like Denzi said.

Also if you do an IAP relatively close to the Tink, I doubt they can punish. They must be near the end of it's "length" when you're using it, so you can correct that with a simple matter of spacing.

 

[Vlade]

Alright.

It's just so hard to maintain good spacing against good toon link players imo.

 

[Teran]

I added the links to the Luigi and Ike threads to http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=167202 let me know when you get the numbers up so I can add them unless Blad01 gets around to it first. Also Teran, you've listed Ike and Luigi as weeks 23 and 24 respectively but the match up thread only goes to 23, do you know who's missing?

If you need anything else please don't hesitate to ask.

Awesome, thanks man.

The missing week is ZSS, we discussed her in the main matchup thread for some reason. The final result was 65:35 - 70:30 in our favour iirc.
Verdict on Ike is 70:30 Falco's favour

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Alright.

It's just so hard to maintain good spacing against good toon link players imo.

you can short hop forward, shine, and move backwards almost immediatly, this will outrange all his attacks and when done correctly he shouldnt be able to retaliate in time

oh and still wondering about DI, could i please get some help?

 

[Teran]

oh and still wondering about DI, could i please get some help?

Experiment in training with different explosive items. Or even better, get a friend to hit you with different attacks at different percents and learn optimal DI for different trajectories you're sent. Then apply it to matchup situations.

Practice practice practice.

 

[Joni]

What is a RPBG? Just read about it in the Luigis MU-Thread and couldn't get a meaning out of it.

 

[Teran]

What is a RPBG? Just read about it in the Luigis MU-Thread and couldn't get a meaning out of it.

Reverse Boost Pivot Grab.

When you pivot grab but DAC it to add a boost to it. It can be used to turn around the CG.

 

[Denzi]

It's so much easier to just say Boost Pivot Grab...

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Then apply it to matchup situations.

the step i've yet to do, as i dont see the use.

whenever im about to get hit i grab my L/R button for a airdodge/shield, i dont move my fingers to the control sticks. waiting for the attack because L/R could be late is stupid as DIing is ALWAYS worse then shielding an attack.

And seriously, being able to press shield, look if the attack still hits, move your fingers to the sticks and mash them correctly is quite impossible in just a few freeze frames

 

[Teran]

Whatever floats your boat, lol.

Oh and Xonar, SDIng multihit attacks, DIing attacks that could kill you. It's what you do when you DON'T shield.

It's better if you don't get hit, but you do, so it's best to know what to do if you do. It's not impossible either, it just takes conditioning and learning what to expect.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Oh and Xonar, SDIng multihit attacks, DIing attacks that could kill you. It's what you do when you DON'T shield.

It's better if you don't get hit, but you do, so it's best to know what to do if you do. It's not impossible either, it just takes conditioning and learning what to expect.

most of the time when i get hit its already too late, though.

guess ill grow accustumed to it, if i manage to use it enough in a battle

 

[Denzi]

most of the time when i get hit its already too late, though.

guess ill grow accustumed to it, if i manage to use it enough in a battle

You don't have to do it right when you're hit. That's SDI that's during the freeze frames, and it's pretty much only used to get out of multi-hit attacks. DI can be used the entire time you're in hitstun (IIRC) so it's a lot easier. And of course Momentum cancelling will help you live longer as well.

Check out this vid and see if it helps at all:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hQIy7P7RWo

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

You don't have to do it right when you're hit. That's SDI that's during the freeze frames, and it's pretty much only used to get out of multi-hit attacks. DI can be used the entire time you're in hitstun (IIRC) so it's a lot easier. And of course Momentum cancelling will help you live longer as well.

Check out this vid and see if it helps at all:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hQIy7P7RWo

Yeah I see, it's a summarization of what I already know. But take for example the marth Fsmash on the end, it's impossible to react so fast without seeing it coming, isn't it? But yeah I can see the use in things like snakes Ftilt and TL's Fsmash, so in that way it helped.

 

[Denzi]

Yeah I see, it's a summarization of what I already know. But take for example the marth Fsmash on the end, it's impossible to react so fast without seeing it coming, isn't it? But yeah I can see the use in things like snakes Ftilt and TL's Fsmash, so in that way it helped.

Yeah, that was an example of the extremes of DI, by no means will you survive a Marth Fsmash at 200% every time, if at all. But DI (even a little slow) can help you live to, say, 130% as opposed to 100%, stuff like that.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Yeah, that was an example of the extremes of DI, by no means will you survive a Marth Fsmash at 200% every time, if at all. But DI (even a little slow) can help you live to, say, 130% as opposed to 100%, stuff like that.

Well momentum cancel and freefall I do automaticly, that besides just being carefull at higher percentages (as opposed to really aggressive at lower %, ) i usually manage to survive till ~150 against marth (this guys a real beast too, he reads prefectly and his spacing allows him to get more tippers then not) but still when im hit its (most of the time) to late to react :/ will it come naturally?

 

[Denzi]

Will it come naturally?

Eventually, yes. Just practice it in training mode/try and work on it in reg. brawls. I learned by playing Snake because it's really obvious when you correctly DI his Ftilt, and because he has a lot of high knockback moves.

Just keep trying at it.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Eventually, yes. Just practice it in training mode/try and work on it in reg. brawls. I learned by playing Snake because it's really obvious when you correctly DI his Ftilt, and because he has a lot of high knockback moves.

Just keep trying at it.

Thanks Denz