Ask a Qusestion. Get an Answer.

[Fumpfer]

Thanks for answering all these questions guys! I'm sure this probably was discussed, but I was wondering if I could get info on whether certain techniques are hit-dependent, like double hit jab cancel? Also how do you guys practice things like perfect shdling (consistently getting a silent second laser) and glide tossing. For all of these things I've searched a good bit, and would love some input.

 

[teluoborg]

Yes you should practice them, if that's the question. Practice them until you can do them consistently.

And yes Things like jab cancel are hit dependant since hitlag changes the timing slightly. A jab that hits will last slightly longet than one that whiffs.

 

[1PokeMastr]

Thanks for answering all these questions guys! I'm sure this probably was discussed, but I was wondering if I could get info on whether certain techniques are hit-dependent, like double hit jab cancel? Also how do you guys practice things like perfect shdling (consistently getting a silent second laser) and glide tossing. For all of these things I've searched a good bit, and would love some input.

Practice hitting Kirby with SHDL, only the frame before a silent laser/ silent laser will ever hit Kirby.
Which kind of makes him perfect to practice on. (2008 Falco boards).

Glide tossing is just.. grab a banana or whatever and practice.

And yeah, it's hit dependant.

 

[Blubolouis]

Okay, what do you really need to do to CG marth with Falco ? I kept hearing about buffered boost grabs, but when I try that, the range is just not enough. When I don't buffer it, it seems to work at times. But I can't reject the posibility that it might just be me screwing the boost grabs up.

So the question is: do you need to buffer the boost grabs (during the dthrow) ? Or do you need to time them after the dthrow (and not buffer them during its animation) ?

Also, when using full-hop lasers, in some instances, Falco lands while putting his gun away, and lags horribly. Why is that ? When exactly does it happen ? Does it have to do with his falling speed, with the height at which he's using his laser..?

edit about the marth question: didn't see the whole thing was discussed one page ago, sorry... reading it right now.
edit2: done reading last page, and I couldn't find an actual, decisive, 100% sure answer. Can you guys provide me with one ?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Okay, what do you really need to do to CG marth with Falco ? I kept hearing about buffered boost grabs, but when I try that, the range is just not enough. When I don't buffer it, it seems to work at times. But I can't reject the posibility that it might just be me screwing the boost grabs up.

So the question is: do you need to buffer the boost grabs (during the dthrow) ? Or do you need to time them after the dthrow (and not buffer them during its animation) ?

Also, when using full-hop lasers, in some instances, Falco lands while putting his gun away, and lags horribly. Why is that ? When exactly does it happen ? Does it have to do with his falling speed, with the height at which he's using his laser..?

edit about the marth question: didn't see the whole thing was discussed one page ago, sorry... reading it right now.
edit2: done reading last page, and I couldn't find an actual, decisive, 100% sure answer. Can you guys provide me with one ?

@CG Marth: Not sure.
@Full Hop lasers: Falco should never lag more than 2 or 4 frames for landing lag when using lasers in the air. The only time you ever get more landing lag is because of how Brawl stupidly stores special landing lag when you grab the ledge after using a special. For example, if you grab the ledge with Phantasm or FireBird, the very next time you land on a stage floor you will enter that moves landing lag.

As a better explanation, grab the ledge, then just stand up from the ledge. Jump, then hold shield while in the air and notice how quickly you shield as soon as you touch the ground.
-Now, grab the ledge with either firebird or phantasm, then just stand up from the ledge. Jump, then hold shield while in the air, then notice how long it takes for shield to come up when you touch the ground. You'll be in much more noticeable lag than when you didn't grab the ledge with a special move.

 

[Blubolouis]

Yup, I know about the RCO mechanics. This thing I was talking about, however, is really different.
Like, I would full-hop/double-jump and then while going down, do 2 or 3 lasers. Sometimes, instead of putting his gun away automatically when transitioning from an aerial laser to a landing animation (like in the SHDL), falco actually goes through his entire "putting the gun away" animation while landing. So instead of getting a lagless laser, I get a laser then the animation of "falco putting his gun away on the ground".
I'll get it recorded if no-one see what I'm talking about.

Also, if someone knows for the marth thing, do tell.

 

[Darxmarth23]

Whoa, this thread is about 5 years old.

Feelin special tbh. But don't mind me, carry on y'all.

 

[luxingo]

Are you sure you're not landing with an aerial laser and then doing a grounded laser shortly after? It's easy to do that if you're just mashing special as you fall.

 

[Blubolouis]

I'm sure I'm not :/

 

[teluoborg]

And I'm sure he's not.

It happens to me from time to time, and on SHLs too.
It really is like Blubo describes : you have the ending lag of grounded laser for no apparent reason. I guess it has to do with the frame on which you land your laser.

As for Marth CG I don't have the frame data but based on experience you don't have to buffer anything. you have to dash ASAP (you can buffer it if you want) and then after a very short delay boost grab.

 

[luxingo]

I'll get it recorded if no-one see what I'm talking about.

Not sure if you've gotten a satisfactory answer, but can you record this and show us anyway?

 

[1PokeMastr]

I know what he's talking about, it always happenes to me if I do the laser immediately after jump, so buffered, then try another one.

Which.. is why I don't do that.

And for the CG on Marth, Teluo's right. Just Dash -> C-Down -> Z.
Doesn't need to be buffered.

 

[The_End]

I couldn't find a thread for this and I tried every google combination I could think of. Usually people just say "Whatever youre comfortable with" or "different for every characteR!" but I started playing falco recently and was wondering if anyone had any suggestions on more potent button layouts for a gamecube controller when using falco. Currently my only chage from default is using Y for another grab instead of another jump.

 

[teluoborg]

You might want to get a shoulder button changed to Jump so you can IAP easier, and your Z button (if you're not using it) to Attack so you can Dacus without having to claw.

Maybe tap jump off also.

 

[1PokeMastr]

Who claws to Dacus ?

 

[teluoborg]

I do. I also Claw on X to be able to use Jump, Cstick and Astick at the same time.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I couldn't find a thread for this and I tried every google combination I could think of. Usually people just say "Whatever youre comfortable with" or "different for every characteR!" but I started playing falco recently and was wondering if anyone had any suggestions on more potent button layouts for a gamecube controller when using falco. Currently my only chage from default is using Y for another grab instead of another jump.

Its quite true that you should use whatever layout works best for you. If you want to keep tap jump off you have to rely upon other methods to perform shield -> jump cancel Usmash as falco for whatever choices you make. There is rarely an optimal set-up because choosing one thing offsets another. As a quick side note--if you need to do very fast actions its best to divide it between multiple fingers which usually means trigger buttons. I'll still advise choosing your favorite preferences and making button layouts based on that.

Here are some quick notes on various things to help you decide.
Tap jump vs Tap jump off
Commonly this choice is high dependent upon player preference since there is practically no real advantage of having it on or off. Through practice you can avoid making mistakes that tap jump can bring such as 2nd jumping when wanting to only an Uair. Doing an Usmash when wanting to do an Utilt, etc. However, having tap jump off provides that extra failsafe that makes it impossible for those actions to ever occur. If you experiment around you might find certain things easier with tap jump such as Usmash OoS or running off the stage into 2nd jump turn-around lasers.

Cstick vs Bstick
Sadly, I am not too sure of what B-stick grants Falco as its incredibly rare to see anyone use it. I do recall someone bring up the notion that wavebounces and b-reversals are much easier with to perform with b-sticking. However, you lose out on finer control of Falco when he does his aerials along with potentially slower ground based actions by not having the c-stick. For example, suppose you dash forward jump -> bair without the c-stick. Your control stick inputs would look much like this >, < + A, >. For those few frames you hold back on the stick you actually slow falco down in the air form his forward direction and he will not go as far. Another benefit of C-stick is that by pressing down on the c-stick you will auto fast fall an aerial. This is useful for momentum canceling as you can fast fall much faster more consistently than you would if you did say A + mash control stick down. A final benefit of C-stick is that by initiating C-stick down your dash attack will come out faster than if you did control stick forward + A. Suppose you are at rest and mash forward with the control stick and press A to do a dash attack. The problem is that you did it so fast it comes out as an Fsmash (this is because the first 2-3 frames of dashing from standing will be canceled into Fsmash with this motion). Also, it just helps perform Dacus more easily and boost pivot grabing.

Instant Aerial Phantasm
This is one of the other techs Falco would like to get down pat. You can either do it really fast with one finger or potentially split it across two fingers. There a few situations where you want to perform it. From shield and just straight up from the ground. Typically, jump with one finger into pressing special with the same button can have issues due to being slow. But, its faster if you had say tap jump on or jump with some button into pressing special with another.

Personally
From my own experience, tap jump off is preferred simply because of the notion that I will never accidentally Uair when I wnated to Usmash or jump when I want to Utilt, etc. Its prevents me from ever screwing up. C-stick is on because there are so many benefits to keeping it on. Far more than Falco recieves form having b-sticking on. To get around say UpSpecial and Usmash out of shield as Falco and other characters, I have special set to X and attack set to A and jump to Y. This enables me to make a well-timed motion with one finger by rolling my thumb from Y to A or Y to B and its a small adjustment to do one or the other. I have attack set to a shoulder button because it makes it impossible for me to grab by accident when trying to dacus and using the attack button actually increases your window to perfectly dacus rather than using grab

Who claws to Dacus ?

I claw for only one thing in this game. Holding the B button with my right thumb with Snake's nade and pressing the jump button with the right index to jump with Snake while holding a nade.

 

[1PokeMastr]

*Plays wit tap jump on* Controlled muscle memory boys~

One issue with setting the C-Stick to anything but smash, is if you try to buffer the input it causes you to jump instead of say.. doing a true pivot -> down b.

 

[luxingo]

using the attack button actually increases your window to perfectly dacus rather than using grab

Why is this true? I thought grab is a simultaneous input of shield and attack, and then there would not be a difference between using grab or attack for DACUS.

 

[teluoborg]

Because Sakurai. I don't have the real explanation but it's something like shield having priority over attack when you press the grab button.

*Plays wit tap jump on* Controlled muscle memory boys~

Utilt and Usmash aren't the problem for me.

It's more the possibility of using my second jump while recovering when I just want to up B or worse : when I'm anticipating a DI.
Like "There, hit me but let me burn my jump before".

Also random footstools.

 

[BSP]

I couldn't find a thread for this and I tried every google combination I could think of. Usually people just say "Whatever youre comfortable with" or "different for every characteR!" but I started playing falco recently and was wondering if anyone had any suggestions on more potent button layouts for a gamecube controller when using falco. Currently my only chage from default is using Y for another grab instead of another jump.

I use tap jump off with Y as special and everything's fine. I think IAP would be very difficult with only B on special.

 

[1PokeMastr]

Y/X -> Side B.

I do both Tap Jump and Button Jump.

 

[Darktega]

Does someone have a list of things I need to know about Falco's Bair?

 

[teluoborg]

Bair
-It deals damage
-It kills
-It also hits in front of you
-It stays out forever
-It autocancels if you SHFF it
-It's ridiculously fast
-It can break GW's up B if done with ledge invincibility

What else ?

 

[Darktega]

Do you know if Bair has a hitbox that hits stronger or it's all the same? That would be my only doubt.

 

[teluoborg]

Bair's sweetspot either does 13 or 9% depending on which hitbox you hit with. That's it.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

The move is split into two periods. For a very brief moment at the beginning of the move Bair has its strongest three hitboxes. A 13%, 13%, and 9% all with the same attritbutes except the 9% hitbox is kept in front of falco next to his other leg that is not behind him. The stronger 13% hitboxes are at the center of his frame and the tip of his foot.

After tiny bit of time the hitboxes are in the same locations, but shrink in size and now do 7% instead.

 

[Darktega]

Thanks to you both.

EDIT: So, for the sake of not double posting, I will just ask here in hope someone reads it...

I can't seem to end the CG on Toon Link, I try to buffer a dash grab but I can't tell if I'm doing it okay... Any advice? Note: Haven't played with my Toon Link partner in a while, probably will see him tomorrow. Also, I was practicing alone the buffer dash grab or what I think it is.

 

[ZeroGKYLCRO]

Why did you spell question wrong?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I wonder if setting TL to jump in training mode would be able to tell at all. I am not certain.

"Ask a Qusestion. Get an Answer."
Yep seems correct to me.

 

[DEHF]

You should try to do the walking chain grab on Toon Link. I personally think it's much easier than dashing grabbing and you eliminate the chance of you tripping.

 

[Darktega]

We'll see, thank you to both of you, I'll return here when I get to practice.

 

[teluoborg]

If you ever want to dashgrab do a boost grab instead. It gets you farther and it's safer frame-wise.

 

[1PokeMastr]

Don't try to boost grab near an item.
You always dash attack instead.

Also TLink should just be walking.

 

[Darktega]

Well, I did it, walking grab works like you all said, I just have to try to not drop it.

 

[Dark Dire Wolf]

Hey everyone!
I've came back to playing Brawl and want to try to get competitive. I have a noob question, but any recommendations for tilting more consistently? I often just do a smash. Thanks.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Well, there is not much to say rather than some really simple pointers. The biggest thing is always going to be that you just have to keep practicing until its no longer an issue.
-Keep tap jump off for stuff in the upwards direction.
-Or just starting moving the stick while in the middle of an animation. For example, jab1 -> ftilt. Press A, then start moving the stick to the right. By the time you are done with the jab1 move you can press A again to go into the ftilt.

Again, there is not much to say other than its something you have to keep working on yourself.

 

[luxingo]

-Keep tap jump off for stuff in the upwards direction.

I'd actually think that it would be better to keep tap jump on so that you know when you are pushing the stick too far upwards for a tilt. If you turn it off, then you don't learn how to tilt upwards properly.

Agreeing with the other points though, especially how most of this will just have to be practice.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I'd actually think that it would be better to keep tap jump on so that you know when you are pushing the stick too far upwards for a tilt. If you turn it off, then you don't learn how to tilt upwards properly.

Agreeing with the other points though, especially how most of this will just have to be practice.

It depends upon goals I guess. When I started Brawl I had tap jump off and never needed it in order to perform the other tilts at all. I tilt up differently than I tilt to the side or down. As another example, I only use my index finger to hit the jump button with Snake when holding a nade and no other time will I ever press the jump button with an index finger. In melee, I adapted to learning to using tap jump and a Y button to deal with the variety of maneuvers required by fox/falco. Such as only using the tap jump to shine -> 2nd jump -> bair/dair or only using tap jump to get on stage with falco with double lasers. I only shdl as fox in melee with tap jump since I cannot do it at all with Y button.

One time I saw a video of a guy with only one hand playing smash with his mouth to move the stick and his good hand to work the controller.

In the end, you really just do whatever you can to make sure you can perform your smash movements without error even if it means coming up with your methods at times to cope with 'at present' difficulties.

 

[Dark Dire Wolf]

Thanks for the replies to my last question guys. Now another question. Sometimes when I do the input for DACUS, I have a longer slide and sometimes shorter. I am guessing the longer slide is a BDACUS? The way mentioned for BDACUS doesn't work for me, I just do an up smash, not even a dash attack.