Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)

[Daea]

Watching various marth v. mk vids, I've just been wondering - why do most people go for the tipper fair to finish rather than a ds? I realize that if you grab them on the very edge of the stage, tipper fair is your only option out of grab release, but almost in every vid over time I've seen, only a small percentage of the time do I see the grab release > dash > ds, even when they're not at the edge of the stage.

I ask this because when I play marth against mk, I generally try to finish using grab release > ds, rather than grab release > fair. I find that the timing for grab release to fair is a bit more tricky since it involves the sh fair, and I think it's relatively simpler to just release, dash forward, and ds. Also, because your fair's degradation level will almost always be fairly high, at least compared to ds's, I always figured this to be the better idea. I generally go for the kill at 100-110% - grab, pummel a few times, then release to ds; this has a very high success rate for me. Other than the times where I mess up (either trying to dash too early or dashing too late), I find that this is a much more reliable way to kill, as long as you're not at the very very edge of the stage.

 

[Steel]

Mostly because fair can't really be punished if you mistime your dash. It's just safer.

 

[Pierce7d]

thanks man ill check it out.

EDIT: o yeah, one last thing. If i break someones shield what is the best way to punish them? Like, what attack does the most percent damage, and then what has the most knock back. I was thinking tippered fully charged F-smash for both, but what about a fully charged tippered nuetral special?

Fully charged shield breaker deals the most knockback, but it's slightly circumstantial.

From 0, I can Uair to Usmash for more damage.

You usually have enough time to walk back a distance and get a near-tipper, since at point blank, none of your moves can really kill.

And yes, fully-charged SB unless you've been whoring out that move for the last minute or so (which you should not), in which case, a tipper Fsmash would do.

Say you're fighting on Battlefield or Lylat, and you break your opponent's shield around 70%, but they land on one of the side platforms. You can stand below them and fully charge tipper Fsmash. Make sure you face into the stage, so the reverse hit K.O.s them in the desired direction. Also, lets say for some odd reason you hit them onto one of the middle platforms where this was not an option. If you cannot K.O., either fully charge Usmash or Shieldbreaker again. I think Usmash does more damage.

Quick question: how well does marth do against G&W, DK, and Wolf?

My lucas has problems against them, and atm I'm seconding marth. Any input would be appreciated.

I personally think Marth vs. DK is in DK's favor, though lately I've been having more success in this match. Marth beats G&W because G&W telegraphs a lot, and Marth can use counter G&W's moves easily, and doesn't have difficulty killing here.

Watching various marth v. mk vids, I've just been wondering - why do most people go for the tipper fair to finish rather than a ds? I realize that if you grab them on the very edge of the stage, tipper fair is your only option out of grab release, but almost in every vid over time I've seen, only a small percentage of the time do I see the grab release > dash > ds, even when they're not at the edge of the stage.

I ask this because when I play marth against mk, I generally try to finish using grab release > ds, rather than grab release > fair. I find that the timing for grab release to fair is a bit more tricky since it involves the sh fair, and I think it's relatively simpler to just release, dash forward, and ds. Also, because your fair's degradation level will almost always be fairly high, at least compared to ds's, I always figured this to be the better idea. I generally go for the kill at 100-110% - grab, pummel a few times, then release to ds; this has a very high success rate for me. Other than the times where I mess up (either trying to dash too early or dashing too late), I find that this is a much more reliable way to kill, as long as you're not at the very very edge of the stage.

Honestly, it's because most Marth players are too lazy to step their game up to the next level. We john and say it's risky, but really good players will still do risky stuff to get guaranteed rewards. If you can do this consistantly, please continue doing so.

 

[Dark Shifter]

what does "DS OoS" mean?

 

[Ulevo]

what does "DS OoS" mean?

Dolphin Slash out of Shield.

Next, I have a question. How do you do the ken combo?

 

[Remzi]

You use the stun jacket xD

 

[feardragon64]

You unplug their controller so they can't air dodge while you do it.

 

[Pierce7d]

Step 1: Put in Melee and start the game.
Step 2: Choose Marth
Step 3: ????
Step 4: Profit!
Step 5: STEAK!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Fizzle]

Do you guys have a frame data thread anywhere? I can't find it.

If not, is dtilt faster than DB?

 

[Steel]

First hit of DB is 4 frames IIRC

Dtilt is 7 frames

 

[Pierce7d]

Do you guys have a frame data thread anywhere? I can't find it.

If not, is dtilt faster than DB?

Man, awesome job, just ad frame data, i don't think Mew2king would mind if you copy his:
"Fair - 4
Uair - 5
Nair - 6
Dair - 6
Bair - 7

U tilt - 6
D tilt - 7
F tilt - 8

D smash - 6
F smash - 10
U smash - probably 12 or 13 like SSBM

Forward B - 4
Up B - 5 (but now you are invincible frames 1 2 3 4 and 5, and possibly even 6 although I'm not sure on that, where as in melee you were only invincible ON frame 5, making up B marth's new SHINE)
Down B - 5
B - didn't test, but it's slower than his other standard moves

Dash attack - didn't test, but if I had to make an educated guesstimate I'd say 13

Jab - 4

Grab - 6 (before it was 7, but it's still worse in like every way)"

Dancing Blade is much faster at high speed play. It beats out MANY more attacks.

 

[BacklashMarth]

Dancing Blade is much faster at high speed play. It beats out MANY more attacks.

Shhhh. Don't give him the wrong idea. Now he's gonna spam dancing blade where he should spam d-tilt.

 

[Pierce7d]

He asked which is faster, not which is better.

Of course, you're right that Dtilt has more range and priority, and be easily followed up, or switched to a defensive move, and it's safe on block.

 

[OmegaXF]

Fooling around with Marth on the ledge causes me to get Landing lag returning onto the stage.
If you Dolphin Slash on the ledge to long Landing Lag. Ledge hop a couple of times Landing Lag. Is their an explanation on excatly how Marth gets landing lag on the edge?

 

[illinialex24]

Hey, you know how on FD there is generally a fair amount of lag after grabbing a ledge. Sometimes, I literally get no ending lag after grabbing a ledge. This can cause me to double B-up, or accidentally dropping down immediately, or I can get up much faster. Can this be done consistently or how is it done?

 

[deepseadiva]

Does Marth dislike ANY stages? The Peaches are currently discussing counterpicks against him, and I at least have little to no idea.

Ban Battlefield at least...

 

[illinialex24]

Does Marth dislike ANY stages? The Peaches are currently discussing counterpicks against him, and I at least have little to no idea.

Ban Battlefield at least...

Ummm... Definitely not any normal stages, likely Shadow Moses and Rainbow Cruise.

 

[Remzi]

No RC makes a nice CP for Marth unless it's against D3, MK, or ROB. Though in general, Marth isn't very stage dependent, and there isn't much you can do to stage CP him.

 

[illinialex24]

No RC makes a nice CP for Marth unless it's against D3, MK, or ROB. Though in general, Marth isn't very stage dependent, and there isn't much you can do to stage CP him.

What about G&W. I would think he would own Marth there.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Japes is bad for Marth.

 

[ZHMT]

Japes is bad for Marth.

That, and Yoshi's Island is pretty bad. Its like everything about the stage is against Marth, even the platform is kinda annoying.

 

[chaos_]

is chain grab good on d3?

 

[ZHMT]

is chain grab good on d3?

You can chain 2-3 fthrow, then follow up with a tipped fsmash. Im not sure if its guaranteed, but the first 2 fthrows are.

 

[chaos_]

what is the best counter pic on d3?

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

For Snake you can go RC if you like it, he is worse than you there. D3 I'm not so sure.

 

[chaos_]

and what should be banned on snake or should i ban marth's worst map?

 

[ZHMT]

For Dedede, Ban Castle Siege or Delfino. Counterpick Halberd or Lylat, Battlefield is also a decent stage to fight him on.

For Snake, counterpick Delfino, Rainbow Cruise, or Battlefield. Final destination allows easier juggling. Ban Yoshi's Island or Lylat.

Note: this is just me, you can use my advice or ignore it. I picked what I would do based on my Marth. Dedede can chaingrab you 0-death on Delfino and Siege, and has excellent stage control on Delfino. Lylat and Halberd are good CP's because the platforms allow easier approach, his Waddles will be interfeared, and after his up b hits a platform, you can start a utilt juggle/usmash.

Snake fails in the air, pick Rainbow Cruise. Battlefield allows easier juggles, Delfino is the same. Strike Yoshi's Island because Marth fails on it and Snake is already a problem, and Lylat and Snake mix too well.

 

[feardragon64]

Honestly, I would recommend picking Rainbow Cruise against snake unless you REALLY feel uncomfortable there, in which case pick delfino. Snake has a bit too easy of a time getting kills and setting up traps on battlefield. It's marth's best stage, but Snake does pretty well on it as well.

And ban lylat against snake as zmt already said.

 

[Remzi]

I used to CP snake at RC, until i realized that he can get some REALLY early kills with utilt at the parts with the low ceiling. Now I just stick to BF to avoid the frustration. Juggle traps at BF are too easy. It's almost like a zero death, haha.

 

[ZHMT]

I used to CP snake at RC, until i realized that he can get some REALLY early kills with utilt at the parts with the low ceiling. Now I just stick to BF to avoid the frustration. Juggle traps at BF are too easy. It's almost like a zero death, haha.

I never seemed to have a problem with Snake on RC, but I guess its just me, idk, I like the stage and know a lot of tricks on it, maybe thats why. Battlefield is great against snake and yeah like we all said Delfino works too, 2 great stages.

 

[feardragon64]

Personally I think delfino screws Snake over more than Battlefield gives Marth an advantage over Snake. Think about it:
-Snake is a heavy character so walk off stages = much easier kills
-Higher ceiling to avoid that freaking utilt
-Constantly moving stage prevents mine set ups
-When the stage goes back to the platforms, if Snake isn't in the center he's put into a "recovering low" situation that makes for loltastic gimping

I always cp delfino against snake over battlefield.

 

[illinialex24]

Hey, you know how on FD there is generally a fair amount of lag after grabbing a ledge. Sometimes, I literally get no ending lag after grabbing a ledge. This can cause me to double B-up, or accidentally dropping down immediately, or I can get up much faster. Can this be done consistently or how is it done?

Can someone answer this? Otherwise I will make a new-topic for this.

 

[Pierce7d]

Can someone answer this? Otherwise I will make a new-topic for this.

Your question(s) and senerio are confusing. Can you rephrase it please, with a tad bit more clarity?

 

[illinialex24]

Your question(s) and senerio are confusing. Can you rephrase it please, with a tad bit more clarity?

Sure, you know the grab mechanic.

When you grab a ledge, there is a fair amount of delay in the edge-grabbing mechanic, if you push down immediately, you won't drop for half a second or so. However, I have found on rare instances, that when grabbing the ledge, I have no lag and any input (like pressing down and fairing onto the stage, pressing A to recover or more) I put in immediately happens. This has been a problem because I somtimes hold B-up which allows them to have a free smash, or sometimes I hold down, resulting in an embarrassing suicide because of a nice ledge grab.

On thing I have noticed that is weird when this happens:
I can B-up straight off the ledge.

Anyone know what is going on?

I know I am not being attack because the opponent has been too far for an attack on a few situations, so what is going on?

 

[Nightshine]

Sure, you know the grab mechanic.

When you grab a ledge, there is a fair amount of delay in the edge-grabbing mechanic, if you push down immediately, you won't drop for half a second or so. However, I have found on rare instances, that when grabbing the ledge, I have no lag and any input (like pressing down and fairing onto the stage, pressing A to recover or more) I put in immediately happens. This has been a problem because I somtimes hold B-up which allows them to have a free smash, or sometimes I hold down, resulting in an embarrassing suicide because of a nice ledge grab.

On thing I have noticed that is weird when this happens:
I can B-up straight off the ledge.

Anyone know what is going on?

I know I am not being attack because the opponent has been too far for an attack on a few situations, so what is going on?

I've had this happen to me as well. Only mine was on Brinstar and I was using DS to get back from under the stage near the part where you can split the stage in two. I made it up but as I hit the ground my Marth automatically did another DS and killed my opponent who was right next to me lol.

It might just be a glitch that is unexplainable because I really don't understand how you would be able to control this so taht you have no lag afterwards.

That wasn't my only time doing it eiither I've also done it on Battlefield and Delfino Plaza.

 

[feardragon64]

I forgot the explanation but I know it's somewhere in here. If you do a little searching on it, I'm pretty sure you can find the answer.

 

[illinialex24]

I forgot the explanation but I know it's somewhere in here. If you do a little searching on it, I'm pretty sure you can find the answer.

Cool thanks. I've noticed I have generally come a little bit above a sweetspot both time but I'm not sure if this is just coincidence.... But if someone could have an explanation, thatd be great cause this is 46 pages or so....

 

[crazn137]

It's been regarded as pretty much useless. Not consistent enough to pull off.

 

[Nightshine]

Hey can anybody tell me what the colored balls are next to people's names in your wifi friend list? I have some red, orange, and green but I don't know what they mean.

Also in a vid I saw on youtube this person had a heart next to a stage they had created and I also would like to know how'd it get there and why it's there lol.

 

[Remzi]

Connection rating.

Blue= amazing
Green = great
Yellow = OK
Orange = bad
Red = slow-mo mode