Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)

[Lord Chair]

What does Marth hate against Falco the most? Apart from lasers and the CG that is.

Him catching your landing with silly stuff. Ftilt.

 

[Pierce7d]

No, spot dodge by far. Can't hit or grab a spot dodging Falco except with Dancing Blade, and sometimes that doesn't even work.

 

[Blacknight99923]

or you can bait it and punish, everyone has spotododging habbits and there is no such thing as a 100% safe spotdodge

 

[C.J.]

No, but, iirc it has something like 3 frames of vulnerability.... which is pretty ridiculous.

 

[Lord Chair]

If you can catch 2 frame landing lag, then you shouldn't be worrying about 3 frames between spotdodges.

 

[Shaya]

Difference is, people must fall, there is generic vertical movement that you can get used to. Characters like Falco dont have much more options than fast falling, but even then they still have more of a visual que.
Spot dodges have flashy flash flash animations and can have varied timing

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

im new to the whole joining a forum thing. how do i join the marth boards? most of the people ive read seem pretty cool and i main marth.

 

[Reizilla]

You don't have to "join" anything. Just post around (you should probably start in the social thread) and read up on the stickies/threads and you will slowly become assimilated into our elitism Marth culture ^_^

 

[swordsaint]

I'll ask my question a little differently this time.

When Falco's forcing Marth to approach with lasers, and Marth's attempting to zone via shielding lasers and dashing underneath, what is the most awkward or hardest thing a Falco can do (in a Marth opinion) to beat out the grounded Marth.

Likewise for a Marth attempting to push through the lasers but in the air.

 

[Shaya]

roll behind him when he stupidly throws out a whiffed attack.

 

[V]

Are there any MUs where Marth's OoS game is unaffective?

Which MUs does Marth HAVE to go aggro?

Gracias

 

[Lightning Tiger]

What are the most effective ways to buffer dashes out of grab releases?

 

[V]

What are the most effective ways to buffer dashes out of grab releases?

There is only one way to buffer. In order to do it correctly, you just have to work on timing. I can't remember the number of frames exactly, but there's a certain amount before the move ends where you can buffer the next move. I believe it's like 15 frames or something. What I always do when I'm looking for the visual cue of when a move ends is to execute the move and immediately hold shield. It comes out as soon as the move ends. Assuming we're talking about the grab release on Meta Knight, perform the grab release and hold shield. The moment you shield is the soonest available frame to perform an action. So from that point and about 15 frames back, you can buffer your dash. Perfect practice makes perfect.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Sorry, no.


Grab releases have a significantly shorter buffer window, 2 frames.


And 10 frames is the normal window.

 

[V]

Sorry, no.


Grab releases have a significantly shorter buffer window, 2 frames.


And 10 frames is the normal window.

Thanks for the correction I didn't know the exact number. So basically you have to dash on the exact frame you're able to move. Gotcha

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

alright. thx rei-gun. most appreciated };~))

 

[M@v]

When recovering high, what are the safest options to get down? I know below marth is his weakest area, and people I play have taken advantage of that.

-Counter?
-FF fair?
-FF nair?

 

[mosesrko24]

i dont think anyone here can give you a good answer. spend some time thinking about it and i know you'll figure it out.

 

[Raziek]

When recovering high, what are the safest options to get down? I know below marth is his weakest area, and people I play have taken advantage of that.

-Counter?
-FF fair?
-FF nair?

It depends on the character. MK makes it really difficult. Also depends on the stage.

Counter is a bad idea unless they go for an attack that you can punish on reaction. It doesn't hit much below Marth, and at best, provides some temporary invincibility.

FF fair works well if you retreat it and they try to follow. Usually, I try to FF away from my opponent, and if they follow, I throw a fair. It usually works, unless they're super at powershielding. Oh, and save your double jump.

A FF airdodge can also work against people who try to aggressively attack you in the air.

FF nair works well against tall characters like Snake, ZSS, and others where you can actually hit their heads. Otherwise, you're prone to whiff it and get punished.

Oh, and if you're launched extremely high, shield-breaker bouncing (including pivots as a mix-up) is a good way to quickly alter your landing trajectory.

 

[Reizilla]

Saving your double jump is probably the most important thing to do, but Raziek got most of it. Could add DB stalling to that too.

 

[Shaya]

There are better options:

1. Dancing Blade 1 air stall mix ups
2. Footstooling

 

[tuestresfat]

Can someone explain (in detail) how you utilt 100% of the time with tap jump on?

What is the timing/precision/trick/etc, roughly 25% of the time I freaking use an uair or usmash in the most inconvenient situations.

 

[Reizilla]

Ummmmmmmmmmm.... practice.

Everybody messes up every now and then, but the only way to really minimize it is to practice. If you think you're pushing it too hard, try pushing softer. Too soft now? Find that medium until it becomes comfortable.

Umm, the only thing posture-wise that maybe I've noticed about myself, is that when I uptilt, I'm almost using the middle of my thumb against the edge of the control stick. Don't know if that's normal or not though. haha

 

[Shaya]

Just need to get used to it... you will eventually... Dont stress out too much on trying to practice it over and over.

If anything, just get your thumb on the control stick through a slightly slower movement, or move it there (without jumping) and just hold it.

 

[Raziek]

There are better options:

1. Dancing Blade 1 air stall mix ups
2. Footstooling

Right, DB stalling slipped my mind. 3:30 AM johns.

Does foot-stooling really work that well? Most characters having a good OoS option, and it just putting you back up in the air, doesn't seem that awesome to me.

 

[Lord Chair]

Well, really high up in the air and you can abuse the lag your opponent gets to regain some horizontal spacing, in a worst case scenario you'll find yourself back on the ledge.

 

[Raziek]

Well, really high up in the air and you can abuse the lag your opponent gets to regain some horizontal spacing, in a worst case scenario you'll find yourself back on the ledge.

Ah, in the air. I was thinking a grounded opponent for some reason. that would explain why it seems like a really bad plan to me.

 

[Shaya]

By the time you reach the apex of your footstool jump you will be at maximum aerial mobility.

You can freely buffer down airs with no characters im aware of being able to reach you with anything (bar some item tosses oos) that if the dair hits isnt bad at all (in most cases), if it hits shield it lengthens the time you have free aerial movement, if it doesnt hit full stop you are generally okay.

Marth has shieldbreaker as a good b-reversal, which MOVES you a good distance its just laggy, having that extra horizontal boost allows you to at least use that.

Footstooling as a means of escape pretty much counters waiting for landing lag. Marths fast fall speed is (I say this all the time) underrated, add in that footstools have seemingly HUGE buffer windows (I swear I just hold jump near people and it HAPPENS) you can feasibly get past uairs. I believe Marth can footstool nearly all non-disjointed uairs and potentially avoiding getting hit (Ive done this to ZSS).

Anyway ranting here.
Footstooling is great.

I do this against people on the ground AND in the air.
Mikehaze and I have been discussing this for a while. Should be able to find an example of me doing it, but in recent memory there is a video against Havok in which to avoid getting landing ***** mike footstools havok on the twice (once to avoid tornado) before landing safely.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCpqEprN9RU#t=10m25s

**** yeah footstooling.

To make a point, Marth footstooling at the top of mks tornado is probably his best option if hes coming from below and he otherwise would get hit.

 

[Lord Chair]

Yeah footstooling a grounded opponent has a fair amount of frame advantage as well, whether he shields or not.

Oh and even if it doesn't seem so, ZSS' uair is almost fully disjointed.

 

[Shaya]

I thought it was actively proven that ZSS does not have disjoints.

The uair has fawksy pseudo disjoints on her uair,
its the fact that her hurtbox (her legs) actual travel in the arc faster than the hitbox of the move does.

Her legs are to the right of her when the hitbox of the uair is above her.
But her legs are above her when the hitbox is on the left side, etc.

 

[Lord Chair]

The more you know...

 

[Raziek]

Ah, didn't know the buffer window for foot-stools was that big. I'll have to give that a try.

 

[V]

Are there any characters that Marth's OoS game is unaffective against?

 

[Player-3]

dedede


cuz he'll just grab you

 

[Blacknight99923]

not necassarly I mean you could I dunno GRAB HIM OoS

 

[Raziek]

dedede


cuz he'll just grab you

Retreat moar fair.

 

[Blacknight99923]

I would think DB would **** d3 due to shield poking as well


and more retreating fair

 

[Player-3]

you can't shieldpoke dedede

 

[Blacknight99923]

I'll shield poke you

 

[Lord Chair]

Dancing Blade against any shielding opponent with a normal grab is a terrible idea, unless his shield is low and you're attacking him from behind, or you predict a spotdodge (and even then, you have no idea...).

Terrible.