Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)

[Reizilla]

DB doesn't even shield poke that well, and you'll get shieldgrabbed before you even get that far unless you're behind them. On pretty much anyone, much less against DDD and his ******** grab range.

 

[mdmfromdaridge]

Is Fair>DB a combo at low %?

 

[Reizilla]

If it's auto-cancelled, then yeah, pretty much.

 

[mdmfromdaridge]

I more so meant to do DB while still in the air, as opposed to another fair or something. Or would it only work if I landed and autocancelled the fair? Eitherway I've done it on matches before, and it normally lands, but I don't if it's because it's a combo or because I just caught him before he could air dodge.

 

[Reizilla]

So you're saying short hop fair -> db before you land? I'm pretty sure that's not a true combo. It might work in certain situations, but seeing as how sh fair -> fair isn't a true combo and they both come out on the same frame, I'll assume they can air dodge out of db as well. I've honestly never tried it myself though.

 

[mdmfromdaridge]

I could've sworn DB's first hit was faster.

 

[Player-3]

both frame 4 IIRC, fair might be 5

 

[V]

Jab, Fair, and DB1 all hit on frame 4

 

[mdmfromdaridge]

how much difference in frames is it between the time that marths fair starts to hit (at the top) and the time that his sword actually extends directly in front in order to hit? Same with DB1? Is it gonna be such a small number that it is negligible, or is it possible to account for it and create new combos.

 

[Reizilla]

DB1 is 4-7, Fair is 4-8, so at worst, I'd say a 1 frame differential.

 

[mdmfromdaridge]

Ok so, definately negligible. Thanks.

 

[tuestresfat]

Why is battlefield so good? Only things I got are:

1. bottom of the stage doesn't gimp your recovery, unlike FD.
2. platforms help you get around projectile spammers
3. platforms help your juggle game
4. platforms reduce the risk of DS OoS

is there anything else? Also what other stages are good for marth (i know it depends on the matchup but, in general)? What's a good alternative to BF (assuming your opponent bans it)?

 

[Lord Chair]

The stage is rather small, which helps dealing with campers of most sorts.

 

[Blacknight99923]

um i suppose the top platform can save you if you wiff a DS, but those platforms help a lot you can f smash tipper people on them too :D

 

[Player-3]

alternative


rainbow cruise

 

[Blacknight99923]

brinstar......
**** WHY CAN'T ARE GOOD STAGES BE POINTLESS BECAUSE OF METAKNIGHT

well anyway keep in mind we **** platforms

 

[Raziek]

brinstar......
**** WHY CAN'T ARE GOOD STAGES BE POINTLESS BECAUSE OF METAKNIGHT

well anyway keep in mind we **** platforms

This. I use Brinstar all the time, because very few people around here play MK. Marth ***** on it.

 

[mdmfromdaridge]

So I did some experimentation with fair>DB and noticed something unusual happening. I'm sure you guys already know about it so if you could fill me in. I found that after SH fair, when I would try to perform a dancing blade while falling back to the stage, it won't allow me to go past DB1 until I have landed. Essentially, DB1 comes out just before I hit the ground, and not matter how I time the second button press, it always performs another DB1 after I land and then the rest of the DB. Could someone explain this to me?

 

[Blacknight99923]

you should be able to land continuing the DB at least I can anyway its possible your doing DB wrong

 

[mdmfromdaridge]

See I thought that too but I can do a grounded DB perfectly and I can do DB in the air perfectly, but when I do DB and are about to land, it cuts me off.

 

[V]

What are Marth's best options for punishing MK's fair on shield before he lands into a dtilt?

 

[Reizilla]

See I thought that too but I can do a grounded DB perfectly and I can do DB in the air perfectly, but when I do DB and are about to land, it cuts me off.

Yeah, I tried that out and it seems like if you're too high up, you can't get out a DB2 after any aerial. And at that, it comes out way slower than normal. Interesting.

Drew, try Dolphin Slash or grab if his spacing's bad. Retreating fair might work as well, depending how fast he gets the dtilt out, and full hop dair might also work.

 

[etecoon]

if MK always covers his fair with dtilt you can just shield the dtilt too and punish that instead, it's easier to shield grab or safer to DS because he moves into you. I know you can also powershield repeated dtilts if you normal shield the first by dropping it and putting it back up, MAYBE you could also do that with fair to dtilt? dunno

 

[V]

If i use DS as a punishing move and it's not fresh what are my best kill options?

 

[Lord Chair]

Nothing is safe, you'll usually work towards getting your opponent in a tight spot and kill with aerial tippers.

 

[Blacknight99923]

or punish with an F smash tipper but don't fish for any kind of kill move use what works, you have to be content with getting your oppenent to high percentages before trying to kill them, also if DS is stale down smash comes out in 8 frames so if you need to kill don't forget about that.

my personal favorite killing moves are uair and utlit and when it arises F smash tipped but rely on what works like what lord chair said

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

who is a good second for marth? i just cant find someone who is suitable or just dont know who is

 

[Blacknight99923]

well technically MK i guess altough there isn't any reason in using marth and MK

otherwise falco or ice climbers technically although snake isn't bad either but you don't cover up D3 match up with him

also technically marth only needs a secondary for D3 since its technically impossible to counter MK (unless your using MK otherwise there is not other proven character with and even match up with him)
so any one of the characters that beats D3 after that however

although I would have to say falco due to ROB ZSS DK and wolf match ups being falcos favor and snake going even with about all of them (I was told falco beats rob however I am not sure)
TL;DR falco

 

[grimAuxiliatrix]

so i used to lurk on here a crap ton, and kind of lost myself in a physical moving process so i sort of also lost track of smash but how much has marth changed? have there been any serious like, matchup changes?

 

[Reizilla]

How long ago exactly?

Marth now slightly beats Snake, maybe slightly loses to ICs. and uh... yeah, mikeHAZE is the official best Marth (after Peepee of course) :\/

 

[Shaya]

Meta Knight is Marth's best secondary.
Mostly to cover Marth's weakness in stage counterpicks that people would use against him.

And Dedede I suppose

Frigate? Brinstar? Cruise? I hear it I meta knight it.

 

[grimAuxiliatrix]

like, a year ago, heh. i already thought mikehaze was the best, personally. yeah, i remember db sucking against IC at least, but cool we beat snake. what about vs falco? any change there? i doubt much but he is higher on the tier list now so hmm

 

[Blacknight99923]

marth doesn't lose to IC's imo and I have played a few, whoever outplays who wins very knowledge and player dependant on first match , agrueably the stage decides the latter matches.


we have a 10xdthrow CG on falco to fsmash tipper and we PS his lasers about even

we pretty much go even with all of high tier bar MK now

 

[grimAuxiliatrix]

that's fun. is the frame-perfect grab release spike on mk still viable?

 

[Reizilla]

very much so. still just as hard to do hehe

 

[grimAuxiliatrix]

i remember practicing it. then giving up. then practicing it. then giving up. then somehow doing it without trying. then trying again. and then giving up. fffffffff thanks though

 

[Blacknight99923]

buffer dash, thats probably the most important thing on any GR however just practice you will get it down

 

[Shaya]

You may have not been here when there was an updated version (lol) of the grab release to spike on MK.

It has a bit of a better leeway (not in terms of frames, but of required inputs and specific distances). So ja.

 

[grimAuxiliatrix]

ah that's good, there're a couple MK mains around and i'd at least like to be able to pull it off, even if i never do get to use it perfectly. but anyway, thankyou sirrah

 

[Blacknight99923]

its really sexy when you get it down