Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)

[Xsyven]

Xsyven is just nice. He is the only mod who actually will respond to people quickly from my experience. Best mod ever.

I agree.

 

[X Shinigami X]

I've heard tons of people saying playing on wifi actually makes you worse O _ o. Whats the logic behind this? Is it better to train on computers if you don't have someone to practice with instead of going to wifi? I'm confused =\

 

[l3lue2ain]

I was unsure if I should post this question here beacuse I wanted the community as a whole to generate some awnsers. The question is basically what is marths mix up he is starting to seem like he gets very predictable and when someone gets predictable that means that they start to get punished. For example I keep see marths ( myself included) do Fair , fair or fair, ff (fast fall) forward smash we all know the forward smash leaves us open. So with these types of failed mixup how can marth still trick the person assuming there good. We all know about the other mixup fair , fair , fast fall b-combo. But even that can be shield grabed. Some people will say throw in some shield breakers. A person with a low shield will not try to hang around marth to try to get they're sheild broken . unless they are truely caught off gaurd.
As for the random up+b I don't even understand how this kills people and proper spacing to make it very viable beacuse a miss will result in extreme punishment. its like a very unsafe mk up+b. So this is just some things I have been thinking about.

Discuss people..

 

[Punishment Divine]

I was unsure if I should post this question here beacuse I wanted the community as a whole to generate some awnsers. The question is basically what is marths mix up he is starting to seem like he gets very predictable and when someone gets predictable that means that they start to get punished. For example I keep see marths ( myself included) do Fair , fair or fair, ff (fast fall) forward smash we all know the forward smash leaves us open. So with these types of failed mixup how can marth still trick the person assuming there good. We all know about the other mixup fair , fair , fast fall b-combo. But even that can be shield grabed. Some people will say throw in some shield breakers. A person with a low shield will not try to hang around marth to try to get they're sheild broken . unless they are truely caught off gaurd.
As for the random up+b I don't even understand how this kills people and proper spacing to make it very viable beacuse a miss will result in extreme punishment. its like a very unsafe mk up+b. So this is just some things I have been thinking about.

Discuss people..

As a community we've advanced way past just Fairing at your opponent >_>; i really hope you don't think all of us are like that, cause that was me like...months ago lol

Walk into Dtilt, Dancing Blade, ftilt, jab. Empty SHFF. Mixup SH Fair, SHFF Fair, SH Retreating Fair, so many things have been discussed and added into every Marth's game who peruses these boards. Did you miss that whole few month period? lol

I've heard tons of people saying playing on wifi actually makes you worse O _ o. Whats the logic behind this? Is it better to train on computers if you don't have someone to practice with instead of going to wifi? I'm confused =\

Wifi really messes with your spacing and ability to punish, and so personally I, and many others, feel that it will screw with your ability to determine these things in a real match, and as you know Marth's ability to space and punish while zoning are his, most likely, best attributes. If you can find a really, really good connection, then you can use wifi. If not and you can't find ANY real players, practice spacing and approaching against a level 3 computer. Don't take it seriously, just practice your tech skill, approaches, and ability to tip. Also, don't take total advantage of the ******** AI just to win, you don't get better from that and no one is going to give you a medal.

 

[l3lue2ain]

As a community we've advanced way past just Fairing at your opponent >_>; i really hope you don't think all of us are like that, cause that was me like...months ago lol

Walk into Dtilt, Dancing Blade, ftilt, jab. Empty SHFF. Mixup SH Fair, SHFF Fair, SH Retreating Fair, so many things have been discussed and added into every Marth's game who peruses these boards. Did you miss that whole few month period? lol

I defenetly did miss that whole time period >.> was maining metaknight. Oh look the person somehow tripped now let me just grab them throw them off the stage and gimp them so they can't come back >.> .

Walk into down tilt - I have not actually tried that one. I would presume it would leave you dangeriously open to arial attack . I really only use my down tilt when I am trying to poke to keep a person off the stage. I suppose I will look more into this.

Dancing Blade- I could not remeber what this w as called but perfect sheilding + dodging the first and 3rd strike owns this skill. So does shield grabbing. It hurts when I get punished for using this.

Empty SHFF - This one I have to agree with this mind games.. But also I hope they don't run up to me and pivot grab or something retarted like that.

SH Retreating Fair - I think this is a pretty good move I do it all the time but when I land its like what am I doing ? Just going to do it all over again.. ? Which makes me very predictable.

I know marth is a really good charactor but spacing can not be the only thing that seperates a average marth player from a pro.

 

[Igglyboo]

Best way to get good at tipping marth's dair?
I seem to always mess it up, rarely get the spike.

 

[Punishment Divine]

I defenetly did miss that whole time period >.> was maining metaknight. Oh look the person somehow tripped now let me just grab them throw them off the stage and gimp them so they can't come back >.> .

Walk into down tilt - I have not actually tried that one. I would presume it would leave you dangeriously open to arial attack . I really only use my down tilt when I am trying to poke to keep a person off the stage. I suppose I will look more into this.

Dancing Blade- I could not remeber what this w as called but perfect sheilding + dodging the first and 3rd strike owns this skill. So does shield grabbing. It hurts when I get punished for using this.

Empty SHFF - This one I have to agree with this mind games.. But also I hope they don't run up to me and pivot grab or something retarted like that.

SH Retreating Fair - I think this is a pretty good move I do it all the time but when I land its like what am I doing ? Just going to do it all over again.. ? Which makes me very predictable.

I know marth is a really good charactor but spacing can not be the only thing that seperates a average marth player from a pro.

Err. Dtilt is extremely safe on block and you would never use it on an opponent SHing at you, that's what jab and ftilt do. As for Perfect Shielding Dancing Blade, are you serious? Of course it's not safe on PS, NOTHING is safe of PS. That's why you use it to punish.

Seriously, read some of the stuff around here, the things you believe as of now are, to any Marth mainer who reads anything on these fair boards (PUN!), ludicrous. In fact, if you don't start reading now I feel as though Steel and Junk are going to come into this thread and have a Captain Falcon/Fox ditto the likes of which your mind cannot understand, causing it to explode.

Best way to get good at tipping marth's dair?
I seem to always mess it up, rarely get the spike.

Try turning around with the first hit of Dancing Blade, bair, or footstool your opponent. A safe dair from the stage is a SH to immediate dair, and it only helps if you're turned around. You can also ledgehop dair spike, My personal favorite X)

However, I must stress to all Marth mains that spiking isn't even that important. Bair/agressive fair edgeguarding is the way to be, folks.

 

[3xSwords]

I defenetly did miss that whole time period >.> was maining metaknight. Oh look the person somehow tripped now let me just grab them throw them off the stage and gimp them so they can't come back >.> .

Walk into down tilt - I have not actually tried that one. I would presume it would leave you dangeriously open to arial attack . I really only use my down tilt when I am trying to poke to keep a person off the stage. I suppose I will look more into this.

Dancing Blade- I could not remeber what this w as called but perfect sheilding + dodging the first and 3rd strike owns this skill. So does shield grabbing. It hurts when I get punished for using this.

Empty SHFF - This one I have to agree with this mind games.. But also I hope they don't run up to me and pivot grab or something retarted like that.

SH Retreating Fair - I think this is a pretty good move I do it all the time but when I land its like what am I doing ? Just going to do it all over again.. ? Which makes me very predictable.

I know marth is a really good charactor but spacing can not be the only thing that seperates a average marth player from a pro.

My friend, you are looking at this all wrong. You see... there is always some way to counter a move's spacing or a technique. Therefore you have to realize all things are flawed in at least one area. If there was a technique that wasn't then it would be already discovered and abused and be the only move used in competitive play due to its guaranteed success. Thankfully there isn't.

Therefore when mixing it up, you constantly change what your weakness is and prevent your opponent from knowing the exact action they would perform that would counter your next move. This is why tactics such as empty SH'ing will work, because if you have been fair'ing a person for most of your approaches. You've conditioned them to expect a fair and most likely shield it, so when you perform an empty SH, they will not suddenly out of the blue think.... "Oh... I should pivot grab or smash attack instead of shielding because he won't attack me." You then take advantage of your opponent's following actions which tend to be reactive when something unexpected happens. Reactive actions also tend to be very predictable which is why people use these type of tactics.

Anyway that was only a small example, however you should now understand that mixing up does not mean using a different type of approach. That type of thinking is too narrow. Mixing up should constitute all parts of approaching, retreating, baiting etc and is only limited by you. Even changing up the timing of your attacks can be considered mixing up. Now what really separates a pro from an average player IMO is complete mastery of basics (many do not have this) and advanced techs along with applications and also the ability to think of "everything" in a flash of a couple of seconds.

 

[l3lue2ain]

Err. Dtilt is extremely safe on block and you would never use it on an opponent SHing at you, that's what jab and ftilt do. As for Perfect Shielding Dancing Blade, are you serious? Of course it's not safe on PS, NOTHING is safe of PS. That's why you use it to punish.

Seriously, read some of the stuff around here, the things you believe as of now are, to any Marth mainer who reads anything on these fair boards (PUN!), ludicrous. In fact, if you don't start reading now I feel as though Steel and Junk are going to come into this thread and have a Captain Falcon/Fox ditto the likes of which your mind cannot understand, causing it to explode.


.

Lol its so funny that perfect sheilding keeps comming up. Its like Perfect Sheilding is going to moph smash brothers into 3rd strike. its so funny its just so good. Captain Falcon Dittos lol that just makes me laugh when I see it. at this time lets all pour a drink out for what captian falcon use to be. Fox he is terrible now but at least he is use able.

As for the debate about marth mixup I am not trying to say that all marth is is fairing I am just saying that marth strings of attacks are begining to seem predictable. Which just made me think about something else do you grab alot with marth? I find that when I play marth I grab alot less than I do with other charactors this could possibly be hindering my game.

 

[Punishment Divine]

I grab a lot. Pummel is the best refreshing method, which is absolutely imperative to play Marth, and throws set up for good stuff.

EDIT: And the Steel/Junk thing is a forum joke XP

 

[l3lue2ain]

My friend, you are looking at this all wrong. You see... there is always some way to counter a move's spacing or a technique. Therefore you have to realize all things are flawed in at least one area. If there was a technique that wasn't then it would be already discovered and abused and be the only move used in competitive play due to its guaranteed success. Thankfully there isn't.

Therefore when mixing it up, you constantly change what your weakness is and prevent your opponent from knowing the exact action they would perform that would counter your next move. This is why tactics such as empty SH'ing will work, because if you have been fair'ing a person for most of your approaches. You've conditioned them to expect a fair and most likely shield it, so when you perform an empty SH, they will not suddenly out of the blue think.... "Oh... I should pivot grab or smash attack instead of shielding because he won't attack me." You then take advantage of your opponent's following actions which tend to be reactive when something unexpected happens. Reactive actions also tend to be very predictable which is why people use these type of tactics.

Anyway that was only a small example, however you should now understand that mixing up does not mean using a different type of approach. That type of thinking is too narrow. Mixing up should constitute all parts of approaching, retreating, baiting etc and is only limited by you. Even changing up the timing of your attacks can be considered mixing up. Now what really separates a pro from an average player IMO is complete mastery of basics (many do not have this) and advanced techs along with applications and also the ability to think of "everything" in a flash of a couple of seconds.

My friend was just talking about this to me about moves countering other move and how it revolutionized his game. I think this could also lead to me not knowing how to properly punish with marth to know how to counter the opponets move. Like how do I punish pivot grabs, or a missed a arial acordingly with marth. THese things need further investigation.

 

[rayman1234]

Best way to get good at tipping marth's dair?
I seem to always mess it up, rarely get the spike.

An easy way to tip the dair is to just turn around before you try to dair your opponent . The last part of dair is really easy to tipper for some reason. I hope this helped ^_^

 

[Daedatheus]

Hey guys.
Just wanted to get something straight, because I heard things here and there - if you ledgehop fair through the stage (IE not jumping back onto the stage with fair) before invinc frames run out, to poke at a pesky edge camper, do you retain the invincibility during that ledgehop?

Thanks

 

[Remzi]

Hey guys.
Just wanted to get something straight, because I heard things here and there - if you ledgehop fair through the stage (IE not jumping back onto the stage with fair) before invinc frames run out, to poke at a pesky edge camper, do you retain the invincibility during that ledgehop?

Thanks

Yes, if you do so immediately after grabbing the ledge, its quite effective.

 

[Remzi]

Hmm.. I've got a question now. Whats the best way to deal with a Snake who drops a C4 on you when you have him in a juggle trap?

Double post, sue me.

 

[Punishment Divine]

Hmm.. I've got a question now. Whats the best way to deal with a Snake who drops a C4 on you when you have him in a juggle trap?

Double post, sue me.

Either ignore it, because chances are they won't detonate it if they're right there, or hit them from the side with a fair/bair/nair. That's what I would do at least

 

[Darxmarth23]

Hmm.. I've got a question now. Whats the best way to deal with a Snake who drops a C4 on you when you have him in a juggle trap?

Double post, sue me.

lulz

i would just continue with the juggle ****.

you can take care of it later.

lulz snake sucks against juggle traps!

 

[feardragon64]

Fake them out(you have enough time to react with an airdodge if the detonate, continue to juggle normally and try and beat them to the trigger(don't forget not to land on the mine >>), or if you're satisfied with the damage you've already racked up, move silghtly in the direction that snake is facing(I wouldn't get behind since you might get bair'd) and bair/fair him.
I suppose you can also land as though you're ending the juggle, let him land(presumably right next to or on the mine), and run straight at him for another uthrow.

 

[Punishment Divine]

Hmm now that I'm reflecting on my post, it would depend on the stage. I had Battlefield in mind when posted that but many things fear said would work better on FD, Smashville, etc.

 

[mdmfromdaridge]

A few quick questions. Who does marth normally have the most spacing issues with? Being out spaced, airials that are out spaced, that kind of stuff. Ok well i havent slept in 2 days so i forgot my other question haha

 

[Shaya]

D3, Snake, MK, another Marth. That's about it.

Oh and then you have some characters like ZSS, Tink and Olimar who can give you spacing issues, but not really.

 

[phi1ny3]

Hmm.. I've got a question now. Whats the best way to deal with a Snake who drops a C4 on you when you have him in a juggle trap?

Double post, sue me.

Lol @ desperate snake. It isn't common, but some will hurt themselves if it means avoiding a ton of damage (sort of like a gambit). I would continue, or if he's crazy enough to try, get towards him and punish with maybe a DB, or at high %'s, a killer.

 

[l3lue2ain]

D3, Snake, MK, another Marth. That's about it.

Oh and then you have some characters like ZSS, Tink and Olimar who can give you spacing issues, but not really.

I would have to agree with this because priority and overall range really messes with your spacing. also with the type of projectiles olimar and toonlink can generate they litterally bait you into bad situations.

 

[KO M]

Snake is a big Tank, he takes so much damage... even with recovering =_=

 

[Shaya]

I also forgot to mention D.K.

 

[Remzi]

Anyone with a zair causes spacing issues, that means Samus, Link, and TL.

 

[Punishment Divine]

Anyone with a zair causes spacing issues, that means Samus, Link, and TL.

Link causes spacing issues to begin with, too. Few people fail to realize the his sword has some pretty good range, and I always have a hard time against one of the players in my "crew" of sorts who mains a really effing good Link (He JV 3'd some DDD last tournament)

ROB also gives some spacing issues with his ftilt.

Other than that, pretty much what Shaya said.

 

[Remzi]

Oh yea, definitely ROB as well. And yes Link's range is outstanding, it's almost even with Marth.

 

[Cloud Cleaver]

A lot of characters have several attacks with abormal range for their moveset, too.

Sheik's chain comes to mind, and Zero Suit Samus' forward and upward smashes/specials.

 

[DarkMist]

I have a question

Untippered D-tilt chains to a D-Smash at low percents. However, at certain percent ranges (in training mode), the D-Smash will tip. (registers as a combo still too).

Was wondering how DI or d-tilt degredation would alter these ranges or prevent the tipper.

For example, on fox, i think between 20-40% a fresh d-tilt to D-smash...the d-smash always tips. Metaknight is like 15%-30% or something. Wario around 20-40% as well. Havent tested much yet. Was just wondering if this tipper can be guaranteed at any point.

 

[3xSwords]

I have a question

Untippered D-tilt chains to a D-Smash at low percents. However, at certain percent ranges (in training mode), the D-Smash will tip. (registers as a combo still too).

Was wondering how DI or d-tilt degredation would alter these ranges or prevent the tipper.

For example, on fox, i think between 20-40% a fresh d-tilt to D-smash...the d-smash always tips. Metaknight is like 15%-30% or something. Wario around 20-40% as well. Havent tested much yet. Was just wondering if this tipper can be guaranteed at any point.

No tipper is almost never guaranteed because any DI away will probably cause the tipper to miss at those %'s. Only time tipper is guaranteed is f-throw/d-throw > f-smash and some grab releases other than that you are taking a chance.

DB is just more guaranteed and only a couple %'s lower and if you miss with D-smash you can get screwed pretty badly. Stutter stepping f-smash seems like a better option than d-smash IMO because of larger range after an untippered d-tilt. It may be nice damage but going with the safer option may be better although I'm not stopping you from testing whatever you want to. If it is useful to you than that is all that matters.

 

[infomon]

Question: Why the heck does Marth's Bair give him an air pivot?? Does that exist for anyone else in the game!??

Crazy ol' Martha...

 

[Remzi]

I don't know how anyone can answer "why" he pivots, but no he is the only one.

It has it's uses, though.

 

[Nightshine]

Because Marth is just so awesome that his awesomeness automaticaly makes him turn around after using his bair......

On a serious note:

My guess is that it's because of the decay effect for moves used. Either...they gave Marth this turn around so that you switch up your moves...or....They just hate us soo much because they knew we use fair a lot so they made him turn around after a bair so that our next hit wouldn't do as much because most likely we've already used fair a bunch.
This is of course just theory. It goes along with the fact that everyone trips. This is just more hate to be given.

 

[infomon]

Why more hate? Isn't it kinda awesome?

 

[Remzi]

Lol Nightshine, I highly doubt there is any reason for it. No effort was put in to balance this game, was we all know.

And yes infzy, it's quite awesome.

 

[infomon]

ok, thanx!

 

[mdmfromdaridge]

How easy is it to keep someone in a continuous stream of SH Double Fair's? Like on final destination just keep following and using them? I can do it to computers but i dont want to try it if i dont know if theres a really easy method out of it. If its still a pretty usable method than is the Dair spike pretty easy to do afterwards?

 

[Remzi]

How easy is it to keep someone in a continuous stream of SH Double Fair's? Like on final destination just keep following and using them? I can do it to computers but i dont want to try it if i dont know if theres a really easy method out of it. If its still a pretty usable method than is the Dair spike pretty easy to do afterwards?

It is impossible if your opponent has a brain. Chaining fairs doesn't work past 2 max, and you sure as hell can't follow up with a dair.

 

[mdmfromdaridge]

Well, thats good to know. I guess computers just suck THAT bad.