Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)

[Lord Chair]

it wont really work against being juggled either, theres no reason for him to allow you to execute that

being juggled means you already lost your jump somehow, if you still have your jump you should always be able to turn the juggle into a ledgeguard, which is slightly less obnoxious

not having your jump means silly things, getting usmash or pivotgrabbed, fastfalled uairs dont deal with those

 

[C.J.]

Not directly- perhaps not. But from personal experience and through watching tons of videos of high level play, people will stand still and wait for the airdodge or shield waiting for something to hit their shield to reset the situation. FF uair definitely helps in both of those. The former you just hit them (just like when people get fair'd all the time while Marth lands, only you reverse the situation with them being juggled/possibly killing since uair is usually more fresh than fair). The latter you end up behind them in the position I originally talked about.

Obviously it doesn't work all the time, but it works as well/better as other mix-ups to land.

 

[PantyRaider08]

What are some ways to punish dancing blade in the Marth ditto?

 

[C.J.]

If you're getting hit by it:
Hold away before the first hit, and the 4th hit will miss you (unless they do side, up, down, side).

Hold up after the first or second hit and DS them out of it.

On shield:
Grab/DS them after the third hit

Do anything you want to them after the 4th hit

 

[1PokeMastr]

This is why I like the Marth boards.

Now then, what should I be doing against PIkachu as my approach options ?
As well as, what are my defensive options vs Pikachu ?

Thanks in advance!

 

[C.J.]

Anything except jumping unless Pika is already in the air.

Pika has no disjoints what-so-ever, so just jab his jumps and grab/dtilt his grounded approaches

 

[Lord Chair]

one does not simply grab pikachu's grounded approaches

 

[Reizilla]

Pikachu's everything sucks, so just wreck him with walking.

 

[Pierce7d]

the short simple way to describe how to fight a GOOD Pikachu is, treat him like he's Wario.

 

[Lord Chair]

inb4 how to fight wario because no one knows that either

 

[PEACE7]

And pierce finally posts

 

[Ansem]

What is marth's strongest throw, sorry if its been answered im not in the mood to sift through 600 pages

 

[ぱみゅ]

Strongest kill-wise? Up-throw, But it's useless for kill ayway, it does at like 200% or so.
You better learn low-percentage Forward/Downward Thow followups. At high ones I Fthrow and read their DI/airdodges and act accordingly.

 

[PEACE7]

And don't try killing heavy characters with upthrow like link snake D3 and others they will never die like that

 

[Brawlman1000]

Can some1 tell me whats the best way to momentum cancel with Marth? Thanks.

 

[BSP]

Brawlman, what are you doing in the marth boards? Picking him up?

I hate the usual swordsman throws. They're so weak >.>

 

[Ansem]

Just straight percent what does most, i was just curious. As for follow ups I'll do fthrow/dthrow>db or fair or ffnair

 

[ScareMl]

Just straight percent what does most, i was just curious. As for follow ups I'll do fthrow/dthrow>db or fair or ffnair

don't ffnair as a f-throw follow-up. what would you accomplish?

 

[Brawlman1000]

Brawlman, what are you doing in the marth boards? Picking him up?

I hate the usual swordsman throws. They're so weak >.>

Damn, no one from LA was suppose to know of this till 2morrow....lol, but yeah I am.

 

[ChocoNaner]

What the, I thought Mississippi was a myth :I?!

Madness I say, MADNESS ichu:

 

[Brawlman1000]

Madness? I! AM! BRAWLMAN!!!!!!!!

I'm like the only MS Smasher tho. :/

 

[LooftWaffles]

Just straight percent what does most, i was just curious. As for follow ups I'll do fthrow/dthrow>db or fair or ffnair

Dthrow does 5, everything else does 4.

Does anyone else like to dthrow when fthrow would put them offstage? I find it messes their di and they fall into something more punishable.

 

[ChocoNaner]

No I do not believe good players don't know how to DI :I

However, they have a habit of jumping after any knockback so that usually gives you a read that would put you in an even better position if they hadn't DI'ed I:

yayz for good players w/ a noob habit ichu:

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Dthrow does 5, everything else does 4.

Does anyone else like to dthrow when fthrow would put them offstage? I find it messes their di and they fall into something more punishable.

That is something NEO used to do a bit. DI for one when he did the other let hm land partially charged usmashes on people. C.J. On Ed's account.

 

[Sylarius]

I'm having trouble doing Wario's air grab release SS turnaround fsmash tipper. Is there anything I need to know? :| I'm doing it right about 20% of the time.

EDIT: Just so you guys know, I CAN do the Ice Climber CG (Fthrow > Bthrow) on most characters such as Marth and Falco, but not Snake. I'm not a complete noob at this game like my join date would suggest...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lDzd3XPN6I

 

[Reizilla]

Marth's stutter step is between 1 and 5 frames long, each frame covering a different distance. If you buffer the SS Fsmash, you'll only get the first frame. You need to wait and cancel the SS during one of the later frames in order to make it work.

After that, its just practice.

 

[Sylarius]

So I have to just practice the timing for it? o.O

As in, practice doing the fsmash at the correct timing consistently? D:

 

[Reizilla]

Correct.

 

[Sylarius]

That's painful.
Is it frames 4-5, 4 or 5 that I have to do the fsmash on after the stutter step?

 

[ChocoNaner]

It's not that hard tbh, just try not to be super safe and end up walking more than you need to and letting wario get away :I

I'm starting to be able to do it a lot more consistently ;I

awye for gay tipper grs ichu:

 

[Sylarius]

It's not that hard tbh, just try not to be super safe and end up walking more than you need to and letting wario get away :I

I'm starting to be able to do it a lot more consistently ;I

awye for gay tipper grs ichu:

It's next to impossible for me to do 50% of the time, and I can even do the IC CG on (some) characters... :| stupid dash attack. Lol

The one time I was presented with the situation in a ladder match on wifi, I did it right, but he got 3 wafts on me that game and won >:L

 

[Reizilla]

There's no easy way out, just keep trying and it'll come.

 

[Kel]

I did a lot better vs infern this week than last. I beat him 3-1 with 2 2 stocks and the last game I killed myself at 6% by jumping off the stage and brain farting (didn't even up B haha).

I think I'm understanding snake a lot more. Thank you CJ, Shaya and anyone else that helped.

BTW I noticed that you guys claim uair fastfalled into Snake's shield is supposed to be unpunishable; but it seems that you can get grabbed to me. Am I supposed to buffer a roll or spotdodge to make it unpunishable? Judo and I were testing stuff with it and it didn't seem that safe to me.

 

[C.J.]

You have to be essentially frame perfect on when you FF, but it is safe. The fastest grab in the game is frame 6. Perfect FFuair is -4 on shield. Invincible on frame 2 of your spotdodge. So it works if you do it perfectly. Uair is mostly good for landing because it has really good shield push.

Glad to hear you're doing better though!

 

[Lord Chair]

perfect frame advantage is very unrealistic, honestly the only move you can depend on in terms of frame safety is nair because it actually lends itself for frame-safe spacing

uair requires you to willingly float into your opponent while being completely open to any form of offense, theres no reason ever to uair instead of fair unless youre aiming for some weird horizontal tipper spacing that doesnt really have so much to do with frame trapping as much as it has with basic spacing

aerial>spotdodge is also a weird conception, you can space those nontippers outside of grab range as well, intentionally badly spacing a frame perfect aerial just so you can spotdodge the hardpredicted grab seems a bit unnecessary

at any case calling frame perfect aerials 'safe' is stretching it, theyre flexible at best

 

[Pierce7d]

snakes grab is frame 8 though so and if you do a cross up uair, it's pretty safe, although I wouldn't advise this kinda shenanigan against a good Snake unless you really know what you're doing.

The trick to Snake is to remember that, while he sucks in the air, he sucks on the ledge too, and it's easier to get him there, then force him to the air from the ledge, or just trap him there.

 

[C.J.]

perfect frame advantage is very unrealistic, honestly the only move you can depend on in terms of frame safety is nair because it actually lends itself for frame-safe spacing

uair requires you to willingly float into your opponent while being completely open to any form of offense, theres no reason ever to uair instead of fair unless youre aiming for some weird horizontal tipper spacing that doesnt really have so much to do with frame trapping as much as it has with basic spacing

aerial>spotdodge is also a weird conception, you can space those nontippers outside of grab range as well, intentionally badly spacing a frame perfect aerial just so you can spotdodge the hardpredicted grab seems a bit unnecessary

at any case calling frame perfect aerials 'safe' is stretching it, theyre flexible at best

Which is why I don't suggest purposely landing with uair. Landing with uair, other than a cross-up, is for you you're not spaced for other landing aerials since uair will still typically tipper then for safety- it's more of a last resort landing option. As for it being a frame trap, that was never the point. It was just to get onto the ground safely. As for avoiding shieldgrabs being better through space than frames, I agree. Thus the last part of my statement that uair is mostly good for the fact it gives a large amount of shield push- not because of the frame data.

 

[Pierce7d]

if the opponent is open, at lower percents, it's usually the best option because it's a launcher, which then combos into many things, including Nair. If the percent is low enough Nair combos into many things as well, including Fair. Fair is excellent because it sets up a reset, as most opponents will airdodge after getting hit by a combo string. This is mostly universal, not just vs. snake.

 

[Kel]

Yeah, ok I figured that's what Uair was for but for some reason I thought you guys meant it was safe; IE I could run up to a shielding snake and do it for free. You have to remember I'm coming from MK, so I'm used to having safe options.

It seemed when I camped and rising full hop faired Snake's shield he couldn't do much. I'm fitting into marth main mentality day by day. I'll report how I do after this weekend's tournament with any questions I come up with.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Hi, I'm new. I was just wondering what the best way to practice spacing and hitting with the tip of Marth's Sword was if I don't have anyone in my area to practice with.

Thanks in Advance!