Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)

[Shaya]

the the second hit comes 8 frames after the first assuming perfect buffering.
You can shield grab it if you're close enough.... or shield drop reshield for a powershield... but its kinda risky. You need to somewhat read what snake will do after hitting your shield with the first hit of ftilt.
Second hit of ftilt is punishable with shield drop dancing blade.

 

[NeutralDamage]

the the second hit comes 8 frames after the first assuming perfect buffering.
You can shield grab it if you're close enough.... or shield drop reshield for a powershield... but its kinda risky. You need to somewhat read what snake will do after hitting your shield with the first hit of ftilt.
Second hit of ftilt is punishable with shield drop dancing blade.

Thanks a lot for giving me advice, I appreciate it ^_^. Is the second hit of snake's ftilt punishable with shield drop dancing blade even if he spaces it perfectly? And in general, if snake does primarily only f-tilt, would the shield approach to him be the best and safest way to punish it? My shield and ground game is not very good, I need to improve those.

 

[V]

If he isn't mixing up what he does do whatever works. If approaching into shield baits ftilt then by all means do it. If he starts doing only the first move on your shield I'd retreat a fair out of shield. That's a safe response that will scout his intentions. Some snake's like ftilt1 > pivot grab assuming the shield drop DB. The retreating fair won't hit but it'll let you see what he's thinking. If he does ftilt1 on your shield close enough you can dolphin slash it too but make sure you do that when he's at around 30%.

 

[Robfox]

1st, I wanna say I feel Marth is the ONLY character in the game that goes almost if not even with MK.
My question is............WTF makes this guy top tier??? I mean spacing is good, nice pull out and pull back attack time
but he has like no combo's, no follow up moves, & his recovery is a little unreliable.
It's like Marth is a one hit wonder he'll hit once then have to restart.
Also which swords dance attack is best?

 

[C.J.]

His ability to stay completely safe pretty much all the time is what makes him awesome.

Forward, Up, Down, Forward

 

[Shaya]

He has enough low percent combos to be able to decently rack up percent damage on reads well up to the 80s.

One uair usually means two uairs, if not three.
Dtilt dancing blade.
etc etc

 

[∫unk]

marth puts you in terrible situations then keeps you there

he also outspaces a lot of characters in the neutral situation

 

[PoisonMist]

What moves does Marth have that go through MK's tornado?

 

[V]

All his specials and fsmash

 

[C.J.]

What moves does Marth have that go through MK's tornado?

DB, Shield Breaker, Counter, DS, Fsmash, usmash (from below), dair (from above), nair (from like... a 60 degree angle or something, rofl), fair bair and uair if you're risky and gdlk (from aboveish http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9N7Sm8SuvU&playnext=1&list=PL4A846F9C2850C496 )

 

[Shaya]

Pretty much every move can... its just not that likely?

 

[ScareMl]

ok i picked up brawl kinda late but i've been maining marth since i started.

i know marth's walk is very good, and his dash is laggy, but i wanted to know when should i be walking and when should i be dashing? like both when approaching an opponent and running away.

On that note, marth's dash grab is too punishable, so are there better grab options when approaching an opponent? like are powershield grab or walk grab more effective?

 

[V]

Dash into shield + grab. Walk if shielding is one of your strongest options and you need tilts/jab/pivot grab. Dash is good for a dancing blade punish and also for shielding if your opponent is commiting to attacks a lot and if they have bad grab range/bad options on your shield. Like anything don't get predictable though.

 

[Shaya]

knowing the spacing of your dash to shield is very important for aggressive play + your general ground game mixups that are extremely helpful against mk snake other marths and generally chars who try to space us like zss, lucario and even squirtle

 

[ScareMl]

thanks for the advice. One last thing, do you guys have any tips for the marth v lucario MU. My practice partner mains Lucario and when i try to approach him on the ground, he AS's me and i powershield, but then he grabs me or hits me with the jab combo. when i come in from the air, he rolls behind me and runs away, and then starts camping again. then in general, i get his damage up to kill % but that makes it easier for him to kill me. So any particular things i should be focusing on?

 

[Nike.]

That reminds me.
Shaya, can Marth reliably nair Lucario's fsmash from the neutral position?

 

[V]

I've landed it several times in tournament but I'm not aware if the lucario was able to beat it or not.

@scaremi

If he's rolling every time you jump then don't commit to a jump. Stay grounded. If you're PSing AS and he's coming in for grabs then after your PS try to jab him, pivot grab, or dash back > dancing blade. Learn the timing to PS a C-sticked fsmash. If he mixes up charging/uncharging his fsmash then learn its range, stand just outside of it, and punish it with dancing blade. If you move lucario to the edge of the stage assume he's going to attempt a roll to get away and punish it. If he's doing the full jab combo I believe you can DI down and shield or simply DI out and fair him. If he's going for jab cancels I'm not sure how to punish that yet, but I'd imagine you can dolphin slash him. Your main goal against lucario is to get him offstage and edgeguard him. Dancing blade and fthrow > fsmash at 0% are great to get any character offstage, but don't fish for the grab at 0% too much. Edgeguarding with fair and bair are really good against lucario. If you grab the ledge and he tried to upb to the stage, try a ledgehop bair/uair. If you're on a stage he can wall cling to and he's recovering from below, drop down > fair/dolphin slash regrab are good. The main things against lucario are to stay grounded, don't commit to things too much (punish), and get him offstage.

Hope this helps!

 

[Nike.]

Yea, same here.
I see it like sibe-b and dsmash from Zss. They kinda use them in a spammy rhythm, and after awhile you just learn the timing to flat out beat them with nair (til they get smart and dash attack it).
But with Lucario's fsmash, I feel like the nair still won't beat it.
Maybe it's because they can charge it, or I'm just not falling at the specific time/angle.
Idk lol.

Also, a couple more questions. (I feel stupid)
There's no info on Marth's Pummels in the Frame Data thread.
What's Marth's pummel rate (meaning earliest possible frame he can pummel one after another)?
How much does a pummel refresh the rest of your movepool?

 

[Shaya]

the fact that lucario can charge his fsmash is why nair is so good against it.

Lucario's fsmash comes out on like frame 23? normally. Either way, after the lucario lets go of charging it takes Frame out-1 (so 22 i think) frames for it to come out.

I could consistently use nair to beat silly fsmashes if I was already in the air at the right heights.

Have no idea what his pummel length is, its pretty short though.

When they start doing dash attacks for trying to punish your jumping, rar'd bairs are super sexy and retreating them equates to like... no punish.

 

[ScareMl]

I've landed it several times in tournament but I'm not aware if the lucario was able to beat it or not.

@scaremi

If he's rolling every time you jump then don't commit to a jump. Stay grounded. If you're PSing AS and he's coming in for grabs then after your PS try to jab him, pivot grab, or dash back > dancing blade. Learn the timing to PS a C-sticked fsmash. If he mixes up charging/uncharging his fsmash then learn its range, stand just outside of it, and punish it with dancing blade. If you move lucario to the edge of the stage assume he's going to attempt a roll to get away and punish it. If he's doing the full jab combo I believe you can DI down and shield or simply DI out and fair him. If he's going for jab cancels I'm not sure how to punish that yet, but I'd imagine you can dolphin slash him. Your main goal against lucario is to get him offstage and edgeguard him. Dancing blade and fthrow > fsmash at 0% are great to get any character offstage, but don't fish for the grab at 0% too much. Edgeguarding with fair and bair are really good against lucario. If you grab the ledge and he tried to upb to the stage, try a ledgehop bair/uair. If you're on a stage he can wall cling to and he's recovering from below, drop down > fair/dolphin slash regrab are good. The main things against lucario are to stay grounded, don't commit to things too much (punish), and get him offstage.

Hope this helps!

it helped a ton thanks

 

[Omari]

(Excuse me) Hi Marth mains, my tag's Omari & I'm a Mario main looking to improve my Marth.

Questions:
1. What are the safest/most effective strings/combos/resets etc for Marth?

2. Would anyone consider an air DB as a safe approach?

Some of my examples are:
sh DB (@apex) n-air>anything (grab may be beneficial most)
sh DB (either @apex or instant) u-air>u-smash or f-smash (which smash benefits you more?)
sh DB (you could ff grab here too if ya want)>DB>grab>anything,

*One of my favorite ways to practice (besides studying frame data) is by going into training mode & thinking of countless ways to put my opponents in the worse possible position beneficial to me.

3. After training with Kadaj after Vinnie's recent regional, he told me that Marth's safest tilt is down (remotely). DB's pretty cool too..

4.When you're forcing a recovery move (mostly an upB) out of your opponent, what's the most devastating punish?

I figured it'd speed up the time it takes to learn by hearing "how/why/who on" etc..

 

[C.J.]

@ Nike, adding on to what Shaya said. Pummels for *almost?* every character have IASA frames significantly earlier than when the move ends. And each pummel refreshes one move. However, in order for that to work you have to wait for the move to end. If you start a second pummel in the 1st pummel's IASA frames, the game registers both moves as one and will only refresh one move. Ditto for anyone w/ a remotely fast pummel.

 

[Nike.]

But what's the exact rate for Marth? lol I read somewhere that it's 27 frames between pummels for it to refresh, but I'm unsure if it's accurate.

I thought each pummel only refreshed a percentage, not a whole move. That's pretty cool.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

What stages do Marth's like to take MKs to these days aside from Battlefield?

 

[Reizilla]

Smaaaaaaaaashville. FD is usually bannanannanannannned. I've heard that some like Yoshi's, kinda. But probably those other 3 first.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Oh right, those platform shenanigans. I've been toying around with Marth lately. My spacing is pretty good, I just need more experience with MUs and such. Kind of looking into a new secondary.

 

[Reizilla]

Personally, I like PS2. Lots of little shenanigans you can take advantage of. Particularly if the MK doesn't know the stage well.

 

[infiniteV115]

Are there any attacks (other than stuff like his get-up attack from the ledge, pummel and throws LOL, and get-up attack from being knocked down) that can't be tippered? So basically his jab, tilts, smashes and aerials. If so, which ones?

Also, I was told that Marth's utilt is actually weaker when tippered. I don't know if this meant weaker in terms of knockback, damage or both. In any case, is this true? And are there any other attacks that are like this? (I was under the impression that tipper --> stronger, always)

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

PS2 is probably my favorite stage as D3 right now. I've beaten like everyone I've CPed there in MI lol. Though I'm not sure what kind of shenanigans Marth has but I could imagine some funny grab release stuff with the ice and electric phases.

 

[infiniteV115]

Marth can actually pull a lot of shenanigans on PS2.
Like DB on the conveyor belts

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I like the rock phase. Grab releasing so that they slide down the slopes yield some stupid follow ups lol

 

[Nike.]

I actually have problems counterpicking against Metaknight. Usually I'll win on smashville and they banned fd. Is bf always the best choice if you go to game3?

 

[C.J.]

Nope. Castle Siegeeee

It's such an underrated stage for Marth.

Also MK is "bad" there. Well, pretty much as bad as he can be...

Then I know Mike used to really like Yoshi's, but, he says the slants make GR->dair more difficult.

Personally, I really like Frigate (don't recommend this...) and Lylat. Other than that, PS1 and BF are about the same to me.

 

[Reizilla]

I would think so. Maybe Yoshi's if you don't plan on landing gr > dair, if you're more comfortable there. Not sure how CS would work out. Never played the match-up there.

PS2, lag cancel off of the conveyor belts, superior air speed can get you our of juggle/gimp situations on the air transformation and uair can kill at like 80, ice crap better walk speed, belts help with most of his approaches.

Haha, good ninja. BF is actually my favorite stahe in the match-up x)

 

[Shaya]

Yoshi's is good for marth in terms of ledge options.

That's why Smashville and Yoshi's are both good counterpicks for marth, especially against meta knight, as they reduce the severity of marth's biggest weakness as a character.

I'm a PS2 connoisseur and entrepreneur. That stage is hella hectic for marth.

 

[Pr0phetic]

Are there any attacks (other than stuff like his get-up attack from the ledge, pummel and throws LOL, and get-up attack from being knocked down) that can't be tippered? So basically his jab, tilts, smashes and aerials. If so, which ones?

Also, I was told that Marth's utilt is actually weaker when tippered. I don't know if this meant weaker in terms of knockback, damage or both. In any case, is this true? And are there any other attacks that are like this? (I was under the impression that tipper --> stronger, always)

What can't be tippered is DB and Counter; and that's false, tippered Utilt is surely stronger (unless there's been some gamebreaking revelation since I left lol)

 

[C.J.]

What can't be tippered is DB and Counter; and that's false, tippered Utilt is surely stronger (unless there's been some gamebreaking revelation since I left lol)

I'm fairly certain DB can be tippered. Also, usmash can't be tippered.

Generally, untippered utilt sends them at a more awkward/better to kill them angle.

EDIT: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=172466

 

[Akashi]

I actually have problems counterpicking against Metaknight. Usually I'll win on smashville and they banned fd. Is bf always the best choice if you go to game3?

I choose Lylat. Platforms act like an air dash for us (just talking vs mk), and we can use all of our moves anywhere. Platforms have a few gimmicks, like tipper fsmash, or being able to poke safely diagonally below them. Only two notable downsides are the tilting stage, and our recovery

 

[rahsosprout]

grab release > dair vs. MK

I'm having a lot of trouble when practicing this. Does the dash have to be buffered? Any tips? Thanks

 

[Reizilla]

Dash must be buffered. Hit forward around the time Marth brings his sword to his side. And be sure have full forward momentum when doing the dair, so either claw (hitting jump and down C stick at the same time) or dair with down-forward and A.

And lots of practice