Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)

[Jeos]

it's good to pressure shield with the down 4th DB only if you had a good read on your opponent's shield habit in order to seek a shield breaker, if not then don't do it.

 

[HFlash]

Hey guys, as a Marth noob, I recently learned that its pretty much 100% needed to use the c stick for aerials but the x/y button are SO far away from the c stick so.... what button layout do you guys recommend for a marth main?
Thanks in Advance

 

[Jeos]

the one best suits your hands (or fingers).

is up to you to decide your own button layout, so try different configurations to find the one that suits you better.

 

[Zano]

if jumping and using the c stick is an issue for you, try setting jump to L

 

[Rad]

Hey guys, as a Marth noob, I recently learned that its pretty much 100% needed to use the c stick for aerials but the x/y button are SO far away from the c stick so.... what button layout do you guys recommend for a marth main?
Thanks in Advance

It just takes practice. You'll be gliding from Y to the C-stick very quickly in no time. You can easily learn to claw for the fastest inputs, and using the A button is applicable in some situations also.

 

[Nike.]

It just takes practice. X/Y -> C-stick aerials is def worth learning, though.

 

[V]

If you're just starting out than start practicing claw grip now because there's no reason to not do it as a marth main.

 

[eveningninja]

If you're just starting out than start practicing claw grip now because there's no reason to not do it as a marth main.

I don't understand why claw when you can just set jump to Z or one of the trigger buttons. C-sticking now becomes way easier.

 

[V]

Because short hopping with x/y is easier to get used to and you're gonna have to map another button to grab anyway.

 

[eveningninja]

Why is short hopping with x/y easier to get used to? Seems fine to me (I'm just trying to understand other people's point of view though). And you can map grab to Y, that seems to make sense if jump is Z.

 

[V]

It honestly doesn't matter how you do it as long as your not jumping and c sticking with your thumb. However, if you learn with the normal controller layout, you don't have to fiddle with making a tag on every wii you play on.

 

[eveningninja]

So even among the "pros," there's really no standard or widely-accepted set of controls that is considered the best or most advantageous way to play?

 

[C.J.]

Unless you're a Yoshi, I'm pretty sure the control scheme that has the most usage, among top level players, is default and then people claw if they need to.

 

[HFlash]

Thanks for all of the input guys :D But I have been playing smash ever since it first came out N64, so the normal layout is just a part of my brain by now so I guess I'll just learn to glide from y to c stick.

 

[Reizilla]

X > y

 

[Zano]

Y > x

 

[V]

I use Y but I use X for sh nair oos with mk since it's just a quick thumb slide.

When mk tornados above us expecting dolphin slash (offstage) will it beat DS at the apex?

 

[HFlash]

For doing Marth's retreating pivot grab, I keep on doing the dash grab and its frustrating >.< any tips to what I am doing wrong?

 

[C.J.]

You're not inputting the opposite direction before you hit grab?

I use Y but I use X for sh nair oos with mk since it's just a quick thumb slide.

When mk tornados above us expecting dolphin slash (offstage) will it beat DS at the apex?

In my experience, sometimes it trades, others DS just gets flat out beaten.

 

[eveningninja]

So, I understand why the C-stick is necessary for maximum Marth potential, but...

Is it acceptable to use the A button as well for aerials (other than when doing Nairs)? Do pros use a combination of A and C-stick? Sometimes it just seems like so much work moving my thumb all the way from Y to C-stick, and I honestly don't really want to Claw... it just feels way too uncomfortable. And after having tried it out for a while, I really don't like Z as jump, it's kind of hard to spam short hop.

 

[V]

Honestly you're limiting yourself if you won't learn claw or some variation of it. I got used to it and holding the controller the normal way feels weird now. C stick allows you to DI from the moment you jump which is imperative for retreating aerials instantly. That could mean the difference between D3 chaingrabbing you or not. Nobody uses A for aerials. Idk what to say except you either should learn some way of jumping with your index finger or get used to moving your thumb across the controller. But clawing is really beneficial if you learn it.

 

[F A N G]

So I've heard you guys say *coughshayacough* that you get wrecked by Diddy. Why's that?

 

[V]

Risk vs reward in every situation is whack. We get chip damage when we get in while one small mistake for us = 30% and possibly offstage/on the ledge. Our main move gets stuffed by his fair. Nothing is safe on shield if he's holding a banana. Its just ********. At least vs mk we can **** eachother the same in every aspect except gimping and vs dedede we ledgetrap the crap out of him.
I think diddy is our hardest mu follow by mk then D3.

 

[eveningninja]

Honestly you're limiting yourself if you won't learn claw or some variation of it. I got used to it and holding the controller the normal way feels weird now. C stick allows you to DI from the moment you jump which is imperative for retreating aerials instantly. That could mean the difference between D3 chaingrabbing you or not. Nobody uses A for aerials. Idk what to say except you either should learn some way of jumping with your index finger or get used to moving your thumb across the controller. But clawing is really beneficial if you learn it.

Is it true that most Marths (even among the pros) still just use standard controls and standard holding of the controller though?

Also, what is the official way to claw? Index finger curls to Y for the jump, and then middle finger on Z? Did it hurt your index finger at first? Doing all that short hopping? I don't wanna get tendonitis or anything haha.

 

[V]

Its less strenuous to claw with y and I just barely flick it to short hop. I still use my index finger for z. No it didn't hurt it just took a couple weeks to perfect. Idk if most marth's hold it regularly but they're missing out if they don't claw. You can aerial on the first available frame, everything is more precise and fluid, more command. There's no cons to clawing it helps a lot.

 

[eveningninja]

Hm, well how do I know if I'm clawing right? Are there any pics/vids of a clawing hand? What are the basic principles of it?

 

[V]

There's no right way really. As long as your jumping with your index finger its good. If you use Y it'll be a little easier tho.

 

[eveningninja]

What do you use to grab when clawing?

 

[V]

I still use z. Usually in a situation when you're gonna grab you don't need to be on the jump button. So moving back and forth is fine.

 

[eveningninja]

Well I also like using Link, so Z-air is kind of necessary. Do you think keeping my middle finger on Z would be the best bet? I mean I could map Grab to X and use my thumb for that, that seems maybe like it could be good. Z just feel weird to use when I'm already using my index on Y. What do you think?

Also, I'm trying out clawing right now, and I could definitely get used to it, except that it seems awfully hard to short hop. It seems like I only successfully do so 40-50% of the time. Did you find it hard to short hop at first when you switched to claw?

Thanks!

 

[F A N G]

You could just use L/R jump and not change any other controls.

 

[V]

Yeah short hopping was hard at first but you get used to it in a week or two. For link i'd just SHAD > zair or try middle finger for z.

@ FANG. Yeah you could do that too I guess. Its just a pain making your controls/tag at a tourney on every wii you play on.

 

[eveningninja]

Well, about Z or L or R for jump, I have tried them, and it seems like a lot of work to have to constantly press and let go of really quick (for short hopping purposes). Comparatively, the Y button is pretty easy to push softly/quickly but you have to press so much distance to press L/R and Z is a kind of tough one to have to push and let go of quickly, know what I mean?

Anyone else think Z or the triggers are weird to have to short hop with?

Also, S.F.H., what is SHAD?

 

[Rad]

Short Hopped Air Dodge (usually while you're falling). You're just approaching with a few invincibility frames which beats certain options / can sort of be used as a crossover. In regards to Link, he can Z-air out of an Air Dodge with buttons other than Z, but that doesn't apply to Marth.

 

[eveningninja]

Hm, so... I've been reading general input from Brawl players and it seems like most people just hold the controller the standard way, and that Clawing was mainly a thing people did in Melee.

So that makes me wonder if my efforts to learn to Claw effectively are even worth it. I do want to increase my competitive level in this game, and I can see the potential of Clawing, but the hardest thing right now is short hopping with my index finger on Y. SFH I know you said I'd get used to it but I really don't know... I mean it's only been a day since I've switched to Clawing, but I'm just kind of skeptical, especially since most people just use Standard controls.

 

[Reizilla]

Broly is the best Marth in TEXAS! and he plays with half a hand and his tongue.

BUT, clawing can only help you, if you're willing to put in the time and effort to learn to use it. For your level, it probably won't do much. It's definitely not gonna make you better over night. But if you want to play Marth at your highest possible level, clawing is something that will get you just that much closer to it.

 

[eveningninja]

Hm... alright. And I know this is a Marth forum, but what about with characters such as Sheik, Link, Lucario, Pikachu, Kirby? I also like playing as them, and am wondering if Clawing will also help there.

 

[Nike.]

namesearch bait activated

 

[Reizilla]

XD

Evening, I know iit helps with Sheik and Link, but you're better off asking in the respective character boards. I'm sure they can give you better answers than most of us here. Either way, clawing won't HURT you if you play them as well.

 

[NeutralDamage]

Hi, I'm a noob marth. I have one noob question: What is the easiest and safest way to punish Snake's f-tilt with marth? At pro-level Snake's don't seem to even do that much f-tilt against marth's, so I guess it's pretty easy to counter someway. I'm just noob enough to not have figured it completely out yet. Could shield drop to dancing blade work?