Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)

[Pierce7d]

I'm sure I'm not the only person to be frustrated by old points being brought up in new topics, so I decided instead of just getting frustrated, let's do something about it!

I'm sure the other knowledgeable Marth players on this board actually enjoy helping everyone out and collectively improving all of our gameplay, but often, the simplest things are posted, and it's annoying when I see the Marth board has lots of new posts, only to find out that I'm not finding out anything. New topics, should be reserved for when something new or constructive on a greater scale than three posts needs to be discussed. If you don't know of something is new, you should use the search feature, but the search feature is not foolproof. Therefore, I vote that we have this sticky, so that we can have a thread to tell the new comers, "No, there is no Ken combo" "Yes, we do know that the Fthrow chains to the Fsmash at low %" and "Unfortunately, you have to practice your spacing if you want to spike with Marth's Dair."

I'm sure that I'm not the only person that gets super annoyed by redundant topics. I wouldn't even mind redundant questions, in just this one topic, but even more annoying that this, is this, combines with a vague subject heading because a poster was too lazy to tell us what their post was going to be about.

Also, feel free to rant if you feel my frustration. I mean, if I see one more topic about who's our second (because I know I've seen about 5), or a new technique that we ALL already know about (like Fthrow to Dair on some characters), I might just explode.

Don't worry new comers. I welcome you into the Marth boards, and I know that it wasn't your intention to be redundant, but it'll be a lot better if we could be less redundant, and progress with developing our metagame if we're not sifting through threads tilted "Heh, that's interesting."

I don't want this to turn into a "Critique my Marth thread" as those are actually better off in individual threads. They are generally accompanied by a vid, and then discussion with a very objective focus occurs, so those are good for a separate thread.

But, before you post a new topic on, "Omg, new AT" or "Wow, Marth's Glidetoss is broken, look at this!" try taking a vist here first.

With that said, rant and discuss. Anyone else up for a sticky?

 

[Dr Peepee]

It's a very good idea, but I'm not sure if newcomers will look at everything before they post a "new" finding. Either way, I'm glad you took the initiative and did something about the problem. If this works out, it should definately be stickied.

 

[Shaya]

If the topic works, then in theory it won't need to be stickied. It's purpose is to remove a redundancy of 'constant' new topics, in other words if it's properly used it will always remain near the top/front, etc.

Look at how 'well' (subjective) the ask E_L a question thread went, it's almost similar to what you're going for here anyway.

A person asking a question that's already been asked, even within this thread should be okay, no? copy paste or what have you. It just reduces clutter, I suppose.

 

[Pierce7d]

It's a very good idea, but I'm not sure if newcomers will look at everything before they post a "new" finding. Either way, I'm glad you took the initiative and did something about the problem. If this works out, it should definately be stickied.

True, but this will at least save me the trouble of frustrating myself and instead I can just link their repeated questions to this thread.

 

[HADOOKEN]

haha, u messed up the title

 

[Steel]

sticky this now plx

 

[Roager]

Yes, sticky this. It's good stuff. MK boards and a few others already have something like this stickied.

 

[BrawlerHarrison]

One reason why this should not be stickied?

None.

 

[alchfilosofer]

Quetion: If a move whit IASA frames, in let say in the frame number 20 and you combo it whit a move whit 10 start up frames, do that means the attack would come in the frame 30 (i didn't say "in 30 frames" i said, "in the frame 30")?

 

[3xSwords]

We already have plenty of stickies so like said before if this being properly used it shouldn't need a sticky.

But seriously we really aren't getting any amazing threads, like you said 90% of them are like redundant, 5% is a joke topic (that fail b/c they aren't funny ), and the rest is EL's thread which despite being about almost nothing has the most posts.

I'm not sure if this thread will cure this problem, but I guess its a start.

 

[Rogue Pit]

I heard there's a new way to set up a dair with over b towards the stage, how does it work?

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

nice job making this pierce. i think it will be stickied b/c most other threads like this are.

 

[VietGeek]

Quetion: If a move whit IASA frames, in let say in the frame number 20 and you combo it whit a move whit 10 start up frames, do that means the attack would come in the frame 30 (i didn't say "in 30 frames" i said, "in the frame 30")?

Yes? Although if we were talking about hypothetical IASA frames at 20 to attack that hits on frame 10, making up 30 frames, both your "questions" are kind of the same.

Pierce, should I scream this as I kill an opponent on the last stock?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnVCYOUB0gY

Skip to 0:16 if you want.

 

[Pierce7d]

Quetion: If a move whit IASA frames, in let say in the frame number 20 and you combo it whit a move whit 10 start up frames, do that means the attack would come in the frame 30 (i didn't say "in 30 frames" i said, "in the frame 30")?

If you buffer, then yes. Your second move will start on frame thirty after you initiate the initial attack.

I heard there's a new way to set up a dair with over b towards the stage, how does it work?

Theoretically, it's meant to break both of your momentums, and allow you to use your second jump to Dair, but it's just as escapable as always.

Yes? Although if we were talking about hypothetical IASA frames at 20 to attack that hits on frame 10, making up 30 frames, both your "questions" are kind of the same.

Pierce, should I scream this as I kill an opponent on the last stock?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnVCYOUB0gY

Skip to 0:16 if you want.

That's an epic idea.

Spoiler

G Gundam ftw

 

[flash7]

Heh, you saved me from making a thread . I looked at the metaknight match up thread but I was wondering if someone could make the grab release clearer.

Once MK escapes he seems to move to far away to follow up with a fair or up b, how do you follow the grab release up. I can follow it up (as the thread says) if he lands on a platform but its not always guaranteed. Do you just run to him as hes in the air and do a fair? Or am I missing something (besides MK )?

Thanks.

 

[Steel]

Heh, you saved me from making a thread . I looked at the metaknight match up thread but I was wondering if someone could make the grab release clearer.

Once MK escapes he seems to move to far away to follow up with a fair or up b, how do you follow the grab release up. I can follow it up (as the thread says) if he lands on a platform but its not always guaranteed. Do you just run to him as hes in the air and do a fair? Or am I missing something (besides MK )?

Thanks.

Once you let go, at the first possible frame dash towards him and SH fair.

 

[3xSwords]

Do you guys think f-throw/d-throw > f-smash works after 5% (as in guaranteed)? I mean seriously there is a thread about it but I am really doubtful about it, and I want to know if I'm alone in that opinion.

Also does anybody know where I can find some frame data on Marth? Or should we call EL or someone to calculate them?

 

[Pierce7d]

Do you guys think f-throw/d-throw > f-smash works after 5% (as in guaranteed)? I mean seriously there is a thread about it but I am really doubtful about it, and I want to know if I'm alone in that opinion.

Also does anybody know where I can find some frame data on Marth? Or should we call EL or someone to calculate them?

It depends on the character. On some characters, I have hit frequently as high as 14%.


This thread has frame data, look in the first post, in the sub-catergory, Marth's Moveset, which is blue.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=172592

Actually, I just accidentally bumped into M2k's frame data which is quicker for you to read.

Man, awesome job, just ad frame data, i don't think Mew2king would mind if you copy his:
"Fair - 4
Uair - 5
Nair - 6
Dair - 6
Bair - 7

U tilt - 6
D tilt - 7
F tilt - 8

D smash - 6
F smash - 10
U smash - probably 12 or 13 like SSBM

Forward B - 4
Up B - 5 (but now you are invincible frames 1 2 3 4 and 5, and possibly even 6 although I'm not sure on that, where as in melee you were only invincible ON frame 5, making up B marth's new SHINE)
Down B - 5
B - didn't test, but it's slower than his other standard moves

Dash attack - didn't test, but if I had to make an educated guesstimate I'd say 13

Jab - 4

Grab - 6 (before it was 7, but it's still worse in like every way)"

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Do any of you guys know that Fair stage spikes a hanging opponent? If not I'll post a thread on it. Thanks.

 

[Pierce7d]

Do any of you guys know that Fair stage spikes a hanging opponent? If not I'll post a thread on it. Thanks.

Stage and character dependant.

 

[crazn137]

Do any of you guys know that Fair stage spikes a hanging opponent? If not I'll post a thread on it. Thanks.

It depends on the percentage. At low %, it'll just hit them off of the stage lightly, but it still sets you up to DS. At higher percentages, They'll bounce off harder.

EDIT: Pierced got to it first >_>;

 

[3xSwords]

Any frame data on his dodges? (rolls, spot dodges, and air dodges)

 

[Pierce7d]

Any frame data on his dodges? (rolls, spot dodges, and air dodges)

I wish. Perhaps someone that knows might come along, but actually, the quickest way to get an answer is to PM M2K, and EL, and ask if they happen to know.

Of course, if anyone with the resources wants to test this, that would be a good idea.

 

[3xSwords]

Woah I just realized the importance of this thread. Marth has the third highest number of threads, beating out even the Ike boards, with about 786. Only Sonic and Snake have higher, but really I think Marth is more of a problem of junk threads rather than many advances in metagame which Snake and Sonic are probably still going through.

 

[Shaya]

We do have a share of our metagame adding threads, just a portion of them (at this time, maybe 2/3rds, or 5/6ths) are repeats. Look at the guy who just posted a topic about the upsmash stage spike... for the love of god...

 

[crazn137]

^I literally facepalmed when I saw that thread.

 

[3xSwords]

Pierce7d you might want to put in the beginning of the thread that if someone is thinking of making a new thread, but don't want their idea to be stolen.

They can use the search function or post here, but also say that if they post here about it nobody will steal their "discovery" and they are free to make the thread all by themselves. Noobs tend to be really defensive about credit for discoveries so I'm sure this may help prevent a lot of noobs making threads as mentioned above.

 

[Pierce7d]

A) You guys can just call me Pierce.

B) I'll make that modification 3xSwords.

C) I facepalmed too. At least we're all in it together. Seriously, we should apply to force people to have 5 posts, before they make a new thread. This way, they HAVE to read to post where they want an answer. I'm taking that up with the mods later tonight.

 

[Shadow_of_Link]

Cause I somehow didn't see this topic, I shall ask my nubby question here >_>

What is it called when you Upb to the ledge and go into your falling animation instead of actually grabbing the ledge?

 

[Steel]

Any frame data on his dodges? (rolls, spot dodges, and air dodges)

Roll Forward
INVULNERABLE: 9-19
END: 36

Roll Backward
INVULNERABLE: 9-24
END: 35

Spot-Dodge/Sidestep
INVULNERABLE: 6-21
END: 24

From Ankoku's marth data thread.

 

[ZHMT]

Roll Forward
INVULNERABLE: 9-19
END: 36

Roll Backward
INVULNERABLE: 9-24
END: 35

Spot-Dodge/Sidestep
INVULNERABLE: 6-21
END: 24

From Ankoku's marth data thread.

You serious? Thats not that good lol. I wish Marth had Lucario's Roll and Dedede's Spot dodge

 

[Steel]

Yeah, Marth's roll is average at best. Don't abuse it.

 

[3xSwords]

His roll backwards is good and his spot dodge is one of the better ones. Have any of you guys seen MK's roll backwards? Its like 33 frames but he only has invincibility until frame 13 or something. So just remember abuse punishing the back roll against MK.

Also when it says f-smash hits on frame 10 that means the point where it attacks earliest correct? (which is above him I believe). So in reality when we hit an opponent in front of us with f-smash it takes 15ish frames?

 

[3xSwords]

crap smashboards is failing again >.<

double post

blahahahhbahbhhabhah

question: When you guys realize you just double posted do you guys edit the double post so its worth something or just use it as a **** post?

 

[Megavitamins]

Nope, I just go "2nd post, stupid smashboards"

Does anybody know what grab release trixies marf has other than mk / ness / lucas, or is that all?

 

[TheRazaman]

Ivysaur, Squirtle, Wario, Pikachu, Mario, Ice Climbers and Game n Watch are the others.

Now my question.

Whats the best way to stop Fox's Usmash?

My one buddy plays a real nasty Fox and whenever I'm over 80% I have to start worrying about the USmash. I always know when its going to be coming but he's real good at changing up the way he uses it. He used to just do a running Usmash but I got that pattern down so now he does a dash attack then immediately Usmashes, or dashs and just stops in front of me (making me waste the counter or jukes me out of shield) then uses the Usmash.

I suppose the best question would be can someone put up a good video of Marth vs Fox on FD? Cause he gives me endless trouble.

 

[Rave925]

Yes? Although if we were talking about hypothetical IASA frames at 20 to attack that hits on frame 10, making up 30 frames, both your "questions" are kind of the same.

Pierce, should I scream this as I kill an opponent on the last stock?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnVCYOUB0gY

Skip to 0:16 if you want.

lol, SHINING FINGER, AHHHHH

 

[3xSwords]

Ivysaur, Squirtle, Wario, Pikachu, Mario, Ice Climbers and Game n Watch are the others.

Now my question.

Whats the best way to stop Fox's Usmash?

My one buddy plays a real nasty Fox and whenever I'm over 80% I have to start worrying about the USmash. I always know when its going to be coming but he's real good at changing up the way he uses it. He used to just do a running Usmash but I got that pattern down so now he does a dash attack then immediately Usmashes, or dashs and just stops in front of me (making me waste the counter or jukes me out of shield) then uses the Usmash.

I suppose the best question would be can someone put up a good video of Marth vs Fox on FD? Cause he gives me endless trouble.

I know what you are talking about. One time in teams there was a fox and spammed u-smash whenever we got around 85%. You couldn't block it b/c you had to worry about his teammate.

Well for one don't pick FD? The simple answer is that you don't let him get inside your range. Whenever he is running towards you, just do a simple poke move, dtilt, ftilt, or jab. This way it will prevent him from u-smashing you.

If he does a dair combo>u-smash I think you might be able to DS but probably not. But really comes down to preventing his setups for the u-smash and you can do that via your pokes.

 

[3xSwords]

*This double post has been used in order to bump this thread since apparently people won't bother scrolling down a bit to see that they can find answers to their questions*

 

[Pierce7d]

Cause I somehow didn't see this topic, I shall ask my nubby question here >_>

What is it called when you Upb to the ledge and go into your falling animation instead of actually grabbing the ledge?

I don't believe there is a name for it. But it can happen to several characters. Here are some findings on it:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=183566

Remember, the nubby questions are the ones you don't ask . . . or don't ask in the right place, lol