Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)

[Pierce7d]

1.i got a question what is the best attack out of ledge?


also d-tilt follow up to dancing blade is win.

Depends how close your opponent is standing, but jumping off the ledge (not ledge hopping) is probably your best option.

And also, QFT

What is the general consensus on Marth's offensive game compared to his defensive game? Which is generally considered better?

Since Marth is fast, has excellent range, and awesome pressuring tools, with mix-ups that are too good by Brawl standards, his offensive game is win. With Marth, you can build up momentum, and erase an opponent's entire stock. Marth is still highly powerful on defense though, but since he DOES INDEED lack a projectile, most of us have come to agree that his offensive game is better.

However, defense in Brawl is just stronger in general, and Marth has one of the best defenses in the game. Stuff outta shield, and perfect shielding is just too good, and Marth also has a sword to keep his opponent's at bay. On top of this, he has counter.

I stole some of my defensive strategies from P.C. Chris' playing style, and my some offensive strategies from M2K's playstyle (not watching either of them play Marth). I usually play Marth offensively, but I went through a phase playing 80% defense, and was complimented on the style.

To give a brick answer to the question, I'd say offensive. Fair and Dolphin Slash work both ways, as does dtilt, but Dancing Blade and Shield Breaker are just TOO good.

 

[Gokuzz]

Really? I've been playing level 9s and they dodge/block more of my attacks than my irl friends. I think I might spam SH Fair too much though >_<

 

[3xSwords]

Yeah well tat's the thing with lvl 9's. They dodge really complicated things then you just pull out a random smash attack and it lands. Which is why we say don't play lvl 9's b/c u develop really bad habits.

 

[Pierce7d]

Really? I've been playing level 9s and they dodge/block more of my attacks than my irl friends. I think I might spam SH Fair too much though >_<

TBH, fighting wise, level 9s are not bad. They lack heavy strategy, but win in tech skill.

The problem with them, is that they FAIL at recovery.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

ya but they predict attacks i consistently get hit while shield grabbing.

 

[Darxmarth23]

i've got a question.

I need help against a game and watch. Right when the match starts should i approach quickly and offensively, or wait to play my defensive game?Game and Watch has barley any lag.

 

[Steel]

I need help against a game and watch. Right when the match starts should i approach quickly and offensively, or wait to play my defensive game?Game and Watch has barley any lag.

We just had an entire discussion on GW >_>

Read the stickies THEN come to this thread.

 

[Gokuzz]

i've been messing around in training for a little bit and i've found a few things out, could be old info but what i did was i would go on final destination, take the cpu to like 1/4 of the end of the stage and i would fthrow->SH fair-> Second jump Dair and it worked if the target was inbetween 35%-48%. but thats on a motionless target.

edit: only seemed to work with mk so far >_< snake didnt work.

 

[3xSwords]

bump

Edit: Sigh* I'll make this post useful. What is your most difficult matchup? A single sentence reason accompanying would be nice.

 

[HADOOKEN]

Questions:
1. is the "REVERSE" dolphin slash the same as melee or does it mean something different?

2. what are some other useful tactics with the dancing blade other than using the full combos?

 

[3xSwords]

1. Same thing however, not as useful since you don't get that crazy trajectory as you did in melee. Just do normal DS

2. ......Ummm Using the full combo.
I mean there is something where you stop the combo in the middle and punish their reaction. However, this is not guaranteed and very risky in the sense that it relies heavily on knowing your opponent which is very risky in competitive play where you likely haven't played the people on a constant basis. That is pretty much all......

Unless you are talking about single DB uses. To see SH single DB uses, just watch some of Kizzu's dittos on youtube.

 

[nonemus]

I really need help with recovery on marth.

In melee, even at 150+, a skilled player could side special b up to the stage after a smash attack.

We dont have that option anymore, cus sideb is no longer an viable option for recovery. Any other options?

 

[Gokuzz]

Just be good with your DI (Directional Influence), a nice thing I like to do is if I'm in the air on a recovery just to hold B and that launches you foward. Also, use DI on your DS too, it should help. And it also helps if you drop below where the ledge is an DS upwards so you grab it almost instantly.

 

[nonemus]

Shieldbreaker as a recovery move, ill have to try that, thanks!

 

[DuB 22]

I have one pretty simple questions. Just picking up Marth a little lately and I have noticed in some videos that while Marth is in the air people will use his neutral B to recover. How do you get the Horizontal Momentum like they do?

 

[Steel]

Hold it down so it is fully charged.

 

[Retroking2000]

Just be good with your DI (Directional Influence), a nice thing I like to do is if I'm in the air on a recovery just to hold B and that launches you foward. Also, use DI on your DS too, it should help. And it also helps if you drop below where the ledge is an DS upwards so you grab it almost instantly.

forward B recovery is so overrated its awful others can hit you before it charges . also if you release when charged likely they will guess your flight path and abuse it ...so end of that stock.

just work on DI , don't waste your time on that recovery .

a little tip on reacting to DI

dont waste your time reacting visually when you get hit because your DI input will never been on point

react to the audio of attacks ,

i research the net and says that audio reactions are twice as fast as visual reactions

if you hear attack just react to it

i promise you will have better DI

 

[Demonstormkill]

I'd make a thread if this weren't so useless.

I've made a strange, vague, and completely useless "discovery" about DS:

I was messing around against a lvl 9 toon link on BF. He was a character length or 2 above the left platform and I was on the ground slightly left of him facing right...

Don't know why, but I tried to DS him from there. Not sure whether I jumped first (don't think i did). So he uses Dair and lands on the platform without hitting me, and the ground pushback from his landing apparently knocks me about 2.5 marths offstage where I fall in after-up-B animation (facing right) to my death. He pushed me back as DS was rising, not on the way down. Also, I may have been holding left on the control stick after I started DS.

I've tried replicating it with no success at all. I'm wondering if it has any similarities to phanna's discovery about marth's forward-b sending him flying through the air in some cases (since he pushed me further than dair normally could as far as I know).

Anyone know what happened or have any info about this?

 

[3xSwords]

Yeah toon link's dair in the landing animation pushes people back. You likely did DS and due to unknown game physics got pushed off the stage. And no phanna's discovery is different.

Also don't use neutral B for recovery, that's what Tears of Seph meant to say. B/c you can not charge side B .

 

[Gokuzz]

Is there any Marth video out there that teaches you all the tricks of him? I can't find one >_<

Neutral B is good if you're high off the ground, like I said, you cant overshoot it really if you're above it.

 

[VietGeek]

Neutral B is a situational recovery. If done slightly level from the stage, but you're far off from the stage, it can give you the horizontal boost to grab onto the eldge automatically, or allow you to recovery with DS not so low in case they try to edgehog.

Marth isn't a character you can just **** around with offstage. Using all your options correctly is key. SB recovery is sub-par, but will have its uses.

I agree that it is one of the easiest things to punish though. Especially if you're facing one of OS's drones, I mean ROB players. <_<

 

[Demonstormkill]

You likely did DS and due to unknown game physics got pushed off the stage.

That would be the part I'm trying to get at in bold. I also suspect phanna's discovery is somewhat different, but both appear to have to do with momentum and brawl mechanics. Just thinking there could be similar forces at work.

Not sure if DS itself even really played much of a role in causing it, but maybe the invincibility frames let you get somewhere you normally wouldn't, which affects the pushback from dair... or something.

Edit: Did you really feel the need to point out that TL's dair pushes people back? Give me at least that much credit pls.

 

[3xSwords]

So is that a problem? I just stated the obvious so that the transition into the next sentence would be sexier . I will ask when you did the DS were you in range to hit TL? If you weren't then I'll say that TL's dair has a higher knockback push effect somewhere else, and you likely landed there. Or, also consider the fact that Marth is a light-mid weight and he was in the air, so no ground resistance and thus push effect was more drastic. Well not going to bother about it too much since it is situational.

 

[Pierce7d]

i've been messing around in training for a little bit and i've found a few things out, could be old info but what i did was i would go on final destination, take the cpu to like 1/4 of the end of the stage and i would fthrow->SH fair-> Second jump Dair and it worked if the target was inbetween 35%-48%. but thats on a motionless target.

edit: only seemed to work with mk so far >_< snake didnt work.

Ken combo is not in this game. A human player can DI and airdodge this.

Questions:
1. is the "REVERSE" dolphin slash the same as melee or does it mean something different?

2. what are some other useful tactics with the dancing blade other than using the full combos?

Reverse Dolphin Slash no longer hits opponent's in front of you, as it did in Melee (but imagine, lol)

Marth Mixups as of this Era

 

[Gokuzz]

Its reminiscent of the Ken Combo, and I've done it to some of my irl friends and I've seen it in combo videos.

 

[jinofcoolnes]

Its reminiscent of the Ken Combo, and I've done it to some of my irl friends and I've seen it in combo videos.

It's a ken "setup" it's not a combo.

So when you pull it off Yell OMG IT'S A "KEN SETUP" YOU SUCK FOR NOT HAVE ANY DI SKILLZ!!


Also as for the nB Recover, its good but smart player would find were your land and hit you right back into the air.

tho a cool thing that i have not mastered yet, you can NB into sweet spot the edge.

 

[Lex Crunch]

(Figured I'd ask again, here, just because. Stop asking me.)

I've seen the CPU use the Dancing Blade at seemingly inhuman speeds. The most apparent of all are the first two hits. I keep trying and trying to time it so that I can match the CPU's lightning DB speed, but with no success. Is it even possible?

 

[Brian612]

What situation should i use f-tilt and what situation should i use d-tilt?

 

[Steel]

(Figured I'd ask again, here, just because. Stop asking me.)

I've seen the CPU use the Dancing Blade at seemingly inhuman speeds. The most apparent of all are the first two hits. I keep trying and trying to time it so that I can match the CPU's lightning DB speed, but with no success. Is it even possible?

The CPUS cant break game physics.. are YOU timing dancing blade right? You can get it to come out pretty dang fast.

 

[Steel]

What situation should i use f-tilt and what situation should i use d-tilt?

Ftilt is a good spacing tool and owns short hop approaches. If they ever jump towards you, just ftilt.

Dtilt is another great spacing tool and marth's best poke. If you land a dtilt it's a free dash to dancing blade.

 

[Gokuzz]

I think I finally got pivot smashing down, is this really useful? I just can't picture many places it would.

 

[3xSwords]

listen to Steel2nd for Ftilt and Dtilt

Dancing Blade to get the highest possible speeds don't spam the B button. You have to time it. If you spam it by just mashing B you are guaranteed to not get the highest speed possible.

Edit: For avoiding and counterattacking immediately. It is faster than say spotdodging and counterattacking, since you will be able to attack without cool down lag from spotdodge or shield hitstun lag from shielding.

 

[Hype]

The CPU's probebly presses side b the exact frame for optimal speed.

 

[feardragon64]

All aerials auto-cancel, right? So presumably you can auto-cancel dair. But from what I know, marth's aerials are a ***** to auto-cancel. So...

Is it worth mastering the timing(or trying to) on auto-canceled dair?

 

[Remzi]

i dont believe all aerials auto cancel... at least i've never heard of dair auto cancelling with Marth...

 

[jinofcoolnes]

i dont believe all aerials auto cancel... at least i've never heard of dair auto cancelling with Marth...

You can do it the same way you do it with snake's D-Air combo.

 

[3xSwords]

Yes you can auto cancel dair but what's the point? (Btw autocanceling should not be confused with landing during the attack animation of an aerial).

Full hop and dair, should auto cancel

 

[Pierce7d]

No, actually Dair does NOT auto-cancel. No matter when you use the Dair, you will always have to wait before you can act again, so use it wisely.

Also, Dtilt works well as an edgeguard if used properly. Ftilt . . . eh, I usually use Dancing Blade instead. More damage, more speed. But Ftilt does own SH approaches.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

i don't think bair auto-cancels either although i may be wrong.

 

[Pierce7d]

i don't think bair auto-cancels either although i may be wrong.

You are correct.


Taken from: The Comprehensive Guide to AT's, Discoveries and Glitches

- "Auto-Canceling" aerials
L-Canceling is gone, but there exists another trick for eliminating lag after your aerials. Many aerials can be auto-canceled by touching the ground before or after specific points in their animations, putting the character into a neutral standing position. Each move has different timings (there's probably a relationship between this and IASA frames), but with practice, Auto-Canceling should become second nature.
Note that touching the ground after 100% of an attack's animation completes is not auto-canceling because nothing is canceled. See the Lists section for a complete list of aerials compatible with Auto-Canceling.

At no point in during the animation of the Dair or Bair does the rest of the animation cancel when you land, and you will be vulnerable if you hit the ground during either of these moves. The Fair, Uair, and Fair all autocancel very well though.