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[asianaussie]

funnily enough i had that thought as well

 

[Tambor]

You get up slowly because your percentage is high. And vice versa.
Im not sure what the exact percentages are though. It works like getting back up from the ledge slowly/quickly.

Correct me if im wrong.

Edit: a total guess yes

It might also depend on the knockback of the hit. Which would also make sense with what you say, because higher damage causes higher knockback. Or, it might depend on if you tech during the knockback or simply while falling. I'm just guessing.

 

[Dsc]

May i request a TAS check from you tambor?

I really wanna know if taunt cancel pivot edge hog is doable by every 'taunt canceller'

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

I always thought teching was always the same; whether you were high percent or not.

 

[SheerMadness]

I had a really weird tech the other day.

I don't even know how to describe it. Never seen anything like it.

 

[Tambor]

You keep some of the momentum when you tech, so it might also be just that.

May i request a TAS check from you tambor?

I really wanna know if taunt cancel pivot edge hog is doable by every 'taunt canceller'

I'll look into it. I've done this before but don't remember the result. I specifically remember trying a lot with Yoshi lol

 

[The Star King]

Never have I ever seen different speed techs, and I play a helluva lot. But who knows.

 

[DMoogle]

I feel like it's always the same speed (although it varies from character to character).

 

[L1ON]

Well I haven't played brawl in a good ~2-3months... But my favorite thing about it is how mind-games make up for tech skill.

I've done well in tournaments that I didn't even practice for and beaten others who I know were brawling all week. Sure being perfect in all your moves will win out, but when you aren't playing at the top level just being well aware of your opponent can lead you to win.

I think that's sort of what they were going for. Auto canceled aerials being the first thing that comes to my mind.

Actually I'll post this here and now. My views on the development of smash games.

First I'll say that I enjoy brawl but I tend to jump on the bash train as it has many things I do not understand...

In short: (green is positive in my views or wanted/accepted progress... blue is neutral... red is bad...)

64:
1. Huge hitstun
2. Huge shieldstun
3. No grab lag
4. Throws kill
5. Easy l-cancel
6. Limited edge grabbing
7. Lmited DI

melee:
1. Adjusted hitstun
2. Adjusted shieldstun
3. Added grab lag (intended or not i liked jump canceled grabs because it provided a more advanced way to reduce grab lag a bit)
4. Throw knockback reduced
4a. But ut oh here come chain grabs!
5. Tougher l-cancel (can't be spammed is what I'm referring to)
6. More ways to grab edges
7. More di capabilities

brawl:
1. Very little hitstun
1a. More reliance on approaches than combos following approaches
1b. Camping too viable
2. Heavier reliance on shielding
3. Grabs seem fine to me
4. More chaingrabs?
5. auto canceled aerials
6. Edge Sticking
7. Super di allowing some characters to live ridiculously long
8. New mechanic: tripping?

I think brawl started off in the right direction. I would have enjoyed it much more if there were still some actual combos (more hitstun), less need for camping, fewer annoyances like tripping and they should have either removed chaingrabs or made something so you can only regrab x number of times after a throw (chaingrabable throws) before they would always just be released out of reach.

It's late and I just felt like sharing this... share your opinions on the development of smash... I'm interested to read them later =] I hope I'm writing this well enough... lol..

I can't remember who but I recall someone putting it this way...

64: 5 stock 5 minutes (I'm assuming they're ignoring campfests)
Melee: 4 stock 7 minutes
Brawl: 3 stock 10 minutes

64: there's more action here.

Or something to that effect... GOODNIGHT!

edit: Made tech skill for melee blue because even though I enjoy it I did make some brawl things neutral that i do and don't like... so as not to be biased... ty dandan you get 2 rawrs up for making my post better!

on that parting note.... RAWRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!! ROARRAWRRRRR! ...grr... I'm not like too inhabilitated at the moment or anything... but I don't know why I posted this in the ask a question thread.... I mean I know I read discussions on brawl... but still this is the ask a question thread.. wait why am I back? anyway...

So my question to you all is...

rawr?

 

[dandan]

you can view melee's higher tech skill requirements in a bad light if you are not interested in a tech skill heavy game (not saying that i do not like it).

64 5 mins is not enough imo for several matchups. jigs ditts, UGHHHH, generally will take longer. so will matches of samus generally.

in general like your post, just not enough RAWR for me :D

 

[Dsc]

Well I haven't played brawl in a good ~2-3months... But my favorite thing about it is how mind-games make up for tech skill.

I've done well in tournaments that I didn't even practice for and beaten others who I know were brawling all week. Sure being perfect in all your moves will win out, but when you aren't playing at the top level just being well aware of your opponent can lead you to win.

I think that's sort of what they were going for. Auto canceled aerials being the first thing that comes to my mind.

Actually I'll post this here and now. My views on the development of smash games.

First I'll say that I enjoy brawl but I tend to jump on the bash train as it has many things I do not understand...

In short: (green is positive in my views or wanted/accepted progress... blue is neutral... red is bad...)

64:
1. Huge hitstun
2. Huge shieldstun
3. No grab lag
4. Throws kill
5. Easy l-cancel
6. Limited edge grabbing
7. Lmited DI

melee:
1. Adjusted hitstun
2. Adjusted shieldstun
3. Added grab lag (intended or not i liked jump canceled grabs because it provided a more advanced way to reduce grab lag a bit)
4. Throw knockback reduced
4a. But ut oh here come chain grabs!
5. Tougher l-cancel (can't be spammed is what I'm referring to)
6. More ways to grab edges
7. More di capabilities

brawl:
1. Very little hitstun
1a. More reliance on approaches than combos following approaches
1b. Camping too viable
2. Heavier reliance on shielding
3. Grabs seem fine to me
4. More chaingrabs?
5. auto canceled aerials
6. Edge Sticking
7. Super di allowing some characters to live ridiculously long
8. New mechanic: tripping?

I think brawl started off in the right direction. I would have enjoyed it much more if there were still some actual combos (more hitstun), less need for camping, fewer annoyances like tripping and they should have either removed chaingrabs or made something so you can only regrab x number of times after a throw (chaingrabable throws) before they would always just be released out of reach.

It's late and I just felt like sharing this... share your opinions on the development of smash... I'm interested to read them later =] I hope I'm writing this well enough... lol..

I can't remember who but I recall someone putting it this way...

64: 5 stock 5 minutes (I'm assuming they're ignoring campfests)
Melee: 4 stock 7 minutes
Brawl: 3 stock 10 minutes

64: there's more action here.

Or something to that effect... GOODNIGHT!

Not one "RAWR".

Geez.

 

[L1ON]

Not one "RAWR".

Geez.

L1ON needs a new reputation..

...

RAWR!

 

[NixxxoN]

64:
1. Huge hitstun
2. Huge shieldstun

melee:
1. Adjusted hitstun
2. Adjusted shieldstun

 

[Froski]

.......lol

 

[L1ON]

I don't understand. Do you want that in blue? Or what seems to be the problem? I feel that they definitely adjusted the hitstun in the proper direction of balance. No matter how meh you feel that it is. Did they not?

edit: What I mean to say is they improved it, not that they perfected it... but yeah anyway I would love to hear some actual feedback on the subject.

 

[NixxxoN]

I don't understand. Do you want that in blue? Or what seems to be the problem? I feel that they definitely adjusted the hitstun in the proper direction of balance. No matter how meh you feel that it is. Did they not?

edit: What I mean to say is they improved it, not that they perfected it... but yeah anyway I would love to hear some actual feedback on the subject.

I think SSB64 hitstun and shieldstun is perfect... For me the best of this game (unlike melee) is the large amount of combos... Ok maybe there are some too easy combos but the problem isnt the hitstun, its some certain characters moves that connect combos too easily. And I dont get whats the problem with 64 shield-stun. Its not THAT easy to do shield breaks.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

64:
1. Huge hitstun
2. Huge shieldstun

melee:
1. Adjusted hitstun
2. Adjusted shieldstun

Brawl:
1.Pathetic Hitstun
2.Pathetic sheildstun
3.******** Air Dodge
4.Broken Spotdodge
5.Weird DI
6.Broken Recovery Frames

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

Weird DI? It's the same concept as melee's DI(SDI seems more effective in brawl than melee though).

 

[L1ON]

I think SSB64 hitstun and shieldstun is perfect... For me the best of this game (unlike melee) is the large amount of combos... Ok maybe there are some too easy combos but the problem isnt the hitstun, its some certain characters moves that connect combos too easily. And I dont get whats the problem with 64 shield-stun. Its not THAT easy to do shield breaks.

I do enjoy it more myself, I just feel that they made good efforts in melee to balance it. And my view on shield stun isn't that shield breaks make it unfair, it's the amount of guaranteed grabs after moves because your shield is forced to stay up for so long. Which I honestly do prefer.

My point was only that the changes they made from 64 to melee had a good 'new' direction for smash. Whereas I feel that brawl had some good ideas but then got lost somewhere.

 

[srk99]

Sorry to ask for help guys, but I'm running Smash 64 on Project64K and I'm having sort of a graphic error. Moves like fox's reflector, Mario's fireballs, samus's charge beam are showing up properly. Even the games shield isn't showing up. And I forgot to mention the hand cursor when selecting a char doesnt show up either. Any ideas how to fix this?

 

[L1ON]

Sorry to ask for help guys, but I'm running Smash 64 on Project64K and I'm having sort of a graphic error. Moves like fox's reflector, Mario's fireballs, samus's charge beam are showing up properly. Even the games shield isn't showing up. And I forgot to mention the hand cursor when selecting a char doesnt show up either. Any ideas how to fix this?

I've heard of this before, and seen it in a few videos. I think it has something to do with your video plugin. If you go to options -> settings you can change your video plugin I suggest trying that. I'm using Jabo's Direct3D8 1.6 which works fine for me.

You may need to download new plugins if you don't have any that work... hopefully someone will confirm this or give you a better answer. But i figured as I'm here I might as well try and help lol

 

[NovaSmash]

Sorry to ask for help guys, but I'm running Smash 64 on Project64K and I'm having sort of a graphic error. Moves like fox's reflector, Mario's fireballs, samus's charge beam are showing up properly. Even the games shield isn't showing up. And I forgot to mention the hand cursor when selecting a char doesnt show up either. Any ideas how to fix this?

update ur gfx plugin to jabo3d8 http://www.mediafire.com/?bcc7ww6sd6dyltp

just put it in ur plugins folder and say yes when it ask u to replace it

 

[srk99]

Well I installed the latest PJ64 and it works perfectly, im going to see if i can install Jabo into PJ64k . Thank you so much :D

Whoops just saw your post Nova Smasher, thanks :D. It worked perfectly :D.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Weird DI? It's the same concept as melee's DI(SDI seems more effective in brawl than melee though).

I suppose it feels weird to me because i havent played melee in a long time, and the transition from a smash player to brawl makes it seem weird.

maybe its because there is small hitstun; so people have more time DI.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

I think you're talking about momentum cancelling Soup.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I think you're talking about momentum cancelling Soup.

well..call me a nub cake (atleast make me have chocolate frosting) but i thought that was DI.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Question: I know that not zcanceling jiggs' dair on an opponent make them pop up a little which is good for all sorts of things.

However, If I catch the shield with a dair should I zcancel it or just not bother.

I guess what I am rly asking is if there is a significant landing lag difference between a zcancelled dair and a regular one with jiggs.

 

[Battlecow]

Yes, there is a significant lag difference. In fact, at low %s, you should Zcancel it even when you hit them, because that makes it easier to chain to utilts, fthrows, etc.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

if you're hitting their shield, always z cancel

 

[Mahie]

I think SSB64 hitstun and shieldstun is perfect... For me the best of this game (unlike melee) is the large amount of combos... Ok maybe there are some too easy combos but the problem isnt the hitstun, its some certain characters moves that connect combos too easily. And I dont get whats the problem with 64 shield-stun. Its not THAT easy to do shield breaks.

They connect combos easily because hitstun is too long.

Shieldstun is way too long and makes shielding a bad option overall. Usually if you get an aerial on the shield you're sure to get a grab.

It's way more balanced in melee, you can pressure the shield but it's hard, you can combo but you have to read the other.

 

[firo]

One thing that I've been thinking about recently - we all know that the first jump with any character is higher with the control stick than with the c-buttons, but I always use the c-buttons exclusively to jump (as I suspect most others do as well). Considering that the stick jump results in a different position, are there some useful applications for combos and stuff using the stick instead? Does anyone here actually alternate between a stick jump and a c-button jump depending on what the situation calls for?

 

[NixxxoN]

They connect combos easily because hitstun is too long.

Shieldstun is way too long and makes shielding a bad option overall. Usually if you get an aerial on the shield you're sure to get a grab.

It's way more balanced in melee, you can pressure the shield but it's hard, you can combo but you have to read the other.

I still dont agree. Take DK as an example. Huge hitstun but way harder to connect some moves into others than other chars like ... falcon. Thats what it should be.
And, shieldstun isnt the problem, the problem is that grabs are overpowered. Grabs shouldnt be as good in general as they are. N00bs can abuse grabs a lot and be very effective.

 

[Olikus]

One thing that I've been thinking about recently - we all know that the first jump with any character is higher with the control stick than with the c-buttons, but I always use the c-buttons exclusively to jump (as I suspect most others do as well). Considering that the stick jump results in a different position, are there some useful applications for combos and stuff using the stick instead? Does anyone here actually alternate between a stick jump and a c-button jump depending on what the situation calls for?

I play a lot of Btt and there I use it very often to get to certain targets/platforms. So I wouldn't be surprised if it is worthy in some situations in a match.

 

[Surri-Sama]

I was under the impression you can actually get different heights from SHing...even with the buttons

I'm pretty sure Isai said something about it too...loooooooooooong ago

 

[dch111]

Short hop? Running? Control stick?
Yes..............Yes..............Yes
Yes..............Yes..............No (shortest jump possible)
Yes...............No..............Yes
Yes...............No..............No
No................Yes.............Yes (also highest jump possible) (courtesy of Tambor)
No................Yes..............No
No.................No..............Yes (highest jump possible)
No.................No...............No

You can get 6 different heights from changing those three variables. I think the control stick may be further subdivided (can Ant-d or JPleal or Isai confirm?), but you'd need a lot of precision to make that useful.

And that's for single jump only. I'm not sure if the height gains/losses are added on when you go into your second jump before your first jump ends.

The top players definitely vary between these jumps. It is most noticeable when you try to copy something you see, and it doesn't seem to be working out just right: often one of these variables at play. I'd say one way to learn these is anytime you barely can't reach a platform, or barely can't hit a character in a combo, try changing one of these variables.

You can also play a lot of BtT/BtP, where the difference becomes obvious quickly.

 

[Battlecow]

They connect combos easily because hitstun is too long.

Shieldstun is way too long and makes shielding a bad option overall. Usually if you get an aerial on the shield you're sure to get a grab.

It's way more balanced in melee, you can pressure the shield but it's hard, you can combo but you have to read the other.

Lolwut? "too long?" Who or what decides what amount of hitstun is too much? SSB64 hitstun allows for more combos that are more exciting. Shielding comes in useful in many situations, and "balanced" doesn't mean **** in the context you're using it in.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

Stick jumping is very useful Firo. Just an example, running fox or link full jump won't work when you're trying to get ontop of a platform, but when you do with stick jump it's EASY(and useful :D).

 

[The Star King]

I thought you couldn't short hop with the control stick :S

 

[dch111]

Stick jumping is very useful Firo. Just an example, running fox or link full jump won't work when you're trying to get ontop of a platform, but when you do with stick jump it's EASY(and useful :D).

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

jk XD yeah running stick jump fox can get to lowest platforms on hyrule and dreamland

I thought you couldn't short hop with the control stick :S

Try setting the control stick to various ranges on Project 64, and at a low enough range you'll get a short stick jump, somewhere between a c-button short hop and a c-button full jump.

 

[Tambor]

Running stick jump gets you to the same height as standing stick jump by the way.