Ask a Question, Get an Answer Thread~[Read Before Asking a Question]

[Sangoku]

Yeah 26 is kinda big. Don't know about that controller, but with the 64 one, I don't think it's good.

 

[Destiny Warrior]

Hello folks I'm back

I played some games of Smash64 with a friend on an emulator(we got it to work!) the other day. We DS'd a lot, but I guess that since there's no Indian server that's kinda natural.

My actual question is about Captain Falcon, who is now my main rather than Kirby. For some weird reason when I got back into Smash, my Kirby was rock bottom, but I was able to pick up Falcon's basics really easily.

In an all stages environment, what would be Falcon's best stages? I assume Mushroom Kingdom would be his best, since he can keep an opponent trapped under the left passage, probably followed by Dreamland. But I'm not that experienced with the other stages, so some help please? I only want to know say the top 4-5 stages.

 

[TANK64]

For some weird reason when I got back into Smash, my

main

was rock bottom

completely natural.

Dreamland.

Yes. Good Best Falcon stage.

 

[Olikus]

Hello folks I'm back

I played some games of Smash64 with a friend on an emulator(we got it to work!) the other day. We DS'd a lot, but I guess that since there's no Indian server that's kinda natural.

My actual question is about Captain Falcon, who is now my main rather than Kirby. For some weird reason when I got back into Smash, my Kirby was rock bottom, but I was able to pick up Falcon's basics really easily.

In an all stages environment, what would be Falcon's best stages? I assume Mushroom Kingdom would be his best, since he can keep an opponent trapped under the left passage, probably followed by Dreamland. But I'm not that experienced with the other stages, so some help please? I only want to know say the top 4-5 stages.

in competitive play we only play on hyrule, DL, kongo and peach. The old ruleset allso invcluded saffron city. Out of these 5 DL is falcons best stage, and kongo is his second best.

 

[Sempiternity]

rock

loooooooooooooooooool

 

[kys]

ACTUALLY, Falcon's best stage is Congo Jungle. But nearly everyone here doesn't play it enough to realize that, leading to misconceptions about how it really plays.

And lol, I could see Mushroom Kingdom being a really **** stage for falcon.

 

[Olikus]

ACTUALLY, Falcon's best stage is Congo Jungle. But nearly everyone here doesn't play it enough to realize that, leading to misconceptions about how it really plays.

congratulations!

your wrong!

Tip. If nearly everyone on the biggest forum for comnpetitive smash agrees on a thing. its usually right.

Now eat a sandswich and do your homework.

 

[clubbadubba]

i think kys is right that most people on this forum don't play kongo enough to say dreamland is better for falcon than kongo, they usually just assume it. I think kongo ****s with every chars game because of the slanted stage, but I think it ****s with falcon less than most due to his usmash/grab

king funk i think feels better with falcon than on dreamland (correct me if I'm wrong funk)

 

[The Star King]

But Olikus, it's true that the vast majority of people don't know what they're talking about when it comes to Congo, though (not excluding myself). I haven't played on the stage that much (though probably more than you scrubs), but Falcon seems really good there. I could see kys being right.

 

[kys]

I don't want to write a long post about this, so I'll just bring up a couple of points.

What hurts Falcon on Dreamland is his recovery. Congo gives him so many more options. Going through the floor, going high on the platform, Going in the barrel, etc. Play there and I guarantee you'll successfully recover at least twice as much.

These recovery options also help the rest of the cast, but Falcon, even more so than Pikachu, can react and punish these options.

Stage control probably favors Dreamland, but only by a little bit. But I would argue this: While Falcon controls Dreamland slightly better than Congo, he is the best in the cast at controlling Congo, which is certainly significant.

The platforms on the side and in the middle are even more conducive to his combos. Varying heights in the middle lend a lot of variety. The smaller boundaries to the side guarantee more kills.

I'm not going to get into it any more than that, at least for now.

And Olikus, snap out of that attitude. It's obnoxious.

 

[Olikus]

I don't want to write a long post about this, so I'll just bring up a couple of points.

What hurts Falcon on Dreamland is his recovery. Congo gives him so many more options. Going through the floor, going high on the platform, Going in the barrel, etc. Play there and I guarantee you'll successfully recover at least twice as much.

These recovery options also help the rest of the cast, but Falcon, even more so than Pikachu, can react and punish these options.

Stage control probably favors Dreamland, but only by a little bit. But I would argue this: While Falcon controls Dreamland slightly better than Congo, he is the best in the cast at controlling Congo, which is certainly significant.

The platforms on the side and in the middle are even more conducive to his combos. Varying heights in the middle lend a lot of variety. The smaller boundaries to the side guarantee more kills.

I'm not going to get into it any more than that, at least for now.

And Olikus, snap out of that attitude. It's obnoxious.

my attitude is trollish when I talk about sandwiches and similar things, so okay sorry if it feels rude.

About the recovery part. I think we talked about something similar with pika vs falcon on peach. star king if i remember corectly said that even if falcon recovers better on DL than peach he still will die most of the time vs pika, while pika will have more trouble recovery without ledges.

The same goes for falcon on kongo. Okay he might survive more than on DL, but still he can die easily on kongo too. Falcons combo game is much better on DL. His platform pressure is much better than on kongo, cus of the little gap between platforms and ground. He can upsmash and upair, while on congo he must full hop uair.

he got solid groundcontrol on DL. if your on top platform or in the air, you will be getting a ahrd time agaisnt falcon on DL.

Only char he get some trouble with is pika. And falcon might be better vs pika on kongo. IM not so sure about that. But overall he ***** the rest of the cast more on DL than kongo.

 

[The Star King]

About the recovery part. I think we talked about something similar with pika vs falcon on peach. star king if i remember corectly said that even if falcon recovers better on DL than peach he still will die most of the time vs pika, while pika will have more trouble recovery without ledges.

Um you got both the argument and my side wrong. The discussion was ciaza arguing that PC doesn't really help Falcon's recovery because the lack of ledges hurt him, and me arguing that PC DOES help Falcon's recovery because the stage layout helps him more than the lack of ledges hurt him, especially since ledges don't really help him much on Dreamland vs Pikachu in the first place. Definitely don't think Falcon's recovery is better on DL than PC.

I definitely agree with kys on the stage helping Falcon's recovery quite significantly, but I don't feel like discussing that. You just gotta play on the stage. It's like that time when people were arguing in the Hyrule thread that the barrel doesn't really help you - they clearly didn't know what they were talking about, yet they don't admit it to themselves nor to others. I don't really want to argue against those type of people.

Speaking of which, are you actually experienced on Congo? Be honest. I don't like it when people's opinions revolve around ignorance, and they don't admit it to themselves.

 

[Olikus]

Um you got both the argument and my side wrong. The discussion was ciaza arguing that PC doesn't really help Falcon's recovery because the lack of ledges hurt him, and me arguing that PC DOES help Falcon's recovery because the stage layout helps him more than the lack of ledges hurt him, especially since ledges don't really help him much on Dreamland vs Pikachu in the first place. Definitely don't think Falcon's recovery is better on DL than PC.

I definitely agree with kys on the stage helping Falcon's recovery quite significantly, but I don't feel like discussing that. You just gotta play on the stage. It's like that time when people were arguing in the Hyrule thread that the barrel doesn't really help you - they clearly didn't know what they were talking about, yet they don't admit it to themselves nor to others. I don't really want to argue against those type of people.

Speaking of which, are you actually experienced on Congo? Be honest. I don't like it when people's opinions revolve around ignorance, and they don't admit it to themselves.

okay I didnt remember the discussion right then. my bad.

Hard to cross a line for experience, so dont know how to respond on it. Ive played it allot. HArd to say how much compared to other players. But it seems Most of america play on hyrule and DL mostly from what Ive heard. I still feel ive played both stage allot. And falcon is the caracther ive played against most by far. And bye going trhough the stages step by step, I find DL the best.

 

[ballin4life]

based on my experience on congo i think falcon combos worse there than on dreamland. the moving middle platforms mess me up sometimes. obviously he still combos well though.

 

[clubbadubba]

what really matters is how his combo game compares with the rest of the cast on congo vs dl. Congo maybe makes falcons combo game worse than dl (slightly), but i think most other chars combos get worse. Is this the ask a question thread still? should we make a general stage discussion thread? sounds like fun

 

[M!nt]

I'd rather the stage be static and not have all these variables that mess up combos.
So I'd rather play Dreamland, unless you're are creative which I'm not ; __ ;

 

[Battlecow]

I once tried to get hella good on congo so that I could use it as a sneaky CP and rock it in tourney when peeps banned DL, and I never figured out what was so good about it. I have a fair amount of experience with the stage, if that matters--I really doubt kys's analysis of its utility to falcon. Is his recovery buffed? a bit. I don't think it's a make-or-break thing. Stage control and combo ability are much more important, and falcon's usmash and uairs cover and combo on DL perfectly. On Congo? I'd like to see some kys vids before I acknowledge that the high-*** side plats and rotating middles don't cripple him to ****.

Kys, is it possible that your experience with the stage biases you because you're better on it than everyone else, and not because falcon's better on it than everyone else?

 

[kys]

what really matters is how his combo game compares with the rest of the cast on congo vs dl. Congo maybe makes falcons combo game worse than dl (slightly), but i think most other chars combos get worse. Is this the ask a question thread still? should we make a general stage discussion thread? sounds like fun

This is a really important point that I tried to make, but you said it a lot better. It's more about comparing that character to the rest of the cast on a given stage.

I once tried to get hella good on congo so that I could use it as a sneaky CP and rock it in tourney when peeps banned DL, and I never figured out what was so good about it. I have a fair amount of experience with the stage, if that matters--I really doubt kys's analysis of its utility to falcon. Is his recovery buffed? a bit. I don't think it's a make-or-break thing. Stage control and combo ability are much more important, and falcon's usmash and uairs cover and combo on DL perfectly. On Congo? I'd like to see some kys vids before I acknowledge that the high-*** side plats and rotating middles don't cripple him to ****.

Kys, is it possible that your experience with the stage biases you because you're better on it than everyone else, and not because falcon's better on it than everyone else?

His recovery is significantly buffed. I'll just speak about the high tier matchups for now (which is what you would see most of anyways). Off the stage on dreamland? You're done. Consider your stock gone. On Congo, you've got more options. You have a chance, and what I've found is that chance is actually pretty good. The barrel IS useful. Going through the stage is extremely helpful, especially with the grabby nature of Falcon's upb. In a high level match it can mean the difference of as many as 2 stocks, give or take 1. That's huge.

Stage control is a big deal, and I'll admit Falcon covers dreamland better than Congo, BUT Falcon covers Congo better than anyone else in the cast, and significantly so. Fox seems to be the only one who can compare, followed distantly by Pika.

It's hard for me to define Falcon's combo game on Congo. I'm bad at describing it, so I'll just say that sometimes the platforms help, sometimes they hurt. When they hurt though, they still force a tech on those tiny little platforms. Picture a low percent Kirby on the middle platforms: It's even easier to keep uair pressure on Kirby with how low the platforms can be and how they move in sync with each other than it is on Dreamland. I've successfully done uair chains from low percents to KOs with upb, reverse uair, and nair finishers. That's something you can't do on Dreamland (most of the time). I'll concede this is a close point, but I believe so negligible because the difference is minuscule.

I hope this was somewhat clear. I can be pretty bad at describing situations and theorycrafting. I've played a lot of Congo, and I've played against a lot of high tiers with Falcon. That's not the best argument, or even a good one, but I don't care lol. When I played Nova and Killer's Kirby, or Clubba's Pika, or Jaime's Samus, I did soo much better on Congo. I beat Nova, Clubba, and Jaime (my one win against him in the league), and my matches with Killer went down to the last stock. I never got that, "****, I'm done," feeling that you get when Pika lands a grab near the edge on Dreamland.

Haha, as much as I would like to believe I'm better than most everyone on Congo, that's not true. I do have the most fun on Congo, so you might accuse me of being biased in that way.

 

[SSBPete]

falcon's recovery is buffed slightly

the amount of times you recover due to the barrel is canceled out by the amount of times you successfully ledge DI on DL

falcon's combo game is decreased and general stage control is hindered too

 

[The Star King]

I should play with kys on Congo

Since he's the one of the few who's cool enough to play on that stage, and most other people here are too NOOB

Also Pete barrel > ledge DI. How often does ledge DI save you? Debatable, but I would say definitely less than the barrel

 

[SSBPete]

i guess it depends how good your DI is

it seems like most of the time i make the barrel, i get shot up and KO'd whilst in hitstun

 

[clubbadubba]

sk you gotta play nintendude, he gets reverse ledge di like everytime, and that will save your life more often than not

 

[Sempiternity]

those tiny rotating platforms are quite beneficial to falcon

i remember seeing king funk doing some serious damage with tech chase up+b (it's not even a tech chase when you're basically guaranteed the grab)

they're also similar to hyrule's platforms (except even shorter), meaning tech chase dairs will work exceptionally well and should lead into a combo/finisher somehow

uairs in the middle will often cause opponents to fall into these teching situations (is it more or less situational if the platforms are moving?)

i'm not sure any other character benefits as much from this as falcon

 

[Olikus]

i guess it depends how good your DI is

it seems like most of the time i make the barrel, i get shot up and KO'd whilst in hitstun

this is a very good point. just because you might hit the barrel more often than you ledge DI on dreamland, it doesnt make a save automatichly. From my own ecperience combined with watching high level matches on kongo on youtube, I would say at least 80 percent of the time you get KOd because of the hitstun. And allot fo the resistent surviving percent is because people ****s up. That can be because of the fact that not so many people play on that stage, and not knowing it so well. Leaving it to that the barrel is limited helpfull. Remember it can even shoot you downwards to an instant KO as well.

ANd semp kirby is the one getting the biggest boost from the elevatorplatforms. Its like infinity uptilts if it hits at the perfect time of the rotation.

 

[kys]

Ledge DI + Falcon = Worthless. Boom commented one time about how even reverse ledge DI fails to save most characters. The barrel saves more than y'all realize. And the barrel at least gives you the opportunity to recover high.

Lol I guess I really don't care a whole lot about this, because no matter what people aren't going to start playing Congo. SK, if you're on at night (which is when I'm usually on), we'll hit the Congo hard. Haters.

@ Semp: Exactly. Those platforms don't always allow for perfect comboing, but the forced techs are so easy to follow up on they're as good as combos.

@ Clubba: Was Nintendude using Falcon?

 

[Sangoku]

Hmm I think neither DI nor the barrel save most of the time.

 

[clubbadubba]

no he was using mario. I can see how different chars might not benefit as much from reverse ledge DI, but if you can do it onto the top platform of dl (which seems common in my experience) you get to tech and they are pretty far away to chase you

 

[Sempiternity]

ANd semp kirby is the one getting the biggest boost from the elevatorplatforms. Its like infinity uptilts if it hits at the perfect time of the rotation.

Basically any character with a juggling u-tilt gets a boost from the rising platforms. Kirby gets more because his u-tilt is obviously the best in the game, but Kirby also isn't terribly fast, so can't get into a situation to take advantage of the platforms as well as Falcon can.

 

[Sangoku]

I thought Samus utilt was best in the game? Great hitbox and knockback. Only drawback is it's a bit slow.

 

[Sempiternity]

I thought Samus utilt was best in the game? Great hitbox and knockback. Only drawback is it's a bit slow.

Samus's utilt is only good if you know how to use it.

 

[asianaussie]

samus u-tilt is hilarious if you know how to use it

 

[RickySSB]

samus u-tilt is hilarious if you know how to use it

I think the same brrroooo!!!

 

[SSBPete]

Dk's utilt is the best. It combos off a get up attack wall bounce to a ko if they are over about 170%. I did it yesterday.

 

[Cobrevolution]

well, i've a fairly basic question and the only answer i've come up with involves violence, so maybe you guys can help me out. and i always feel the need to be as specific as possible, so, sorry...

a couple guys and i rent out a house and they've been playing smash since freshman year together - i only got fairly decent this past summer/year, and anytime i decide to get better at something i kinda go overboard - so i watched dozens of isai and boom videos, read countless articles and threads on here, etcetc. i've gotten a lot better, arguably the best in the house, but i'm still falling short because of my one friend.

he essentially plays four characters, all basically the same - mario (wherein he stands back, throws fireballs, retreats, waits for me to approach him either a, by air, wherein he just lands an usmash, or b, by ground, where he can quickly evade and grab me and just fireball/dsmash edgeguard), pikachu the same way, kirby (stays above me and drills and runs, or else stays on the ground and just spams utilts or runs and waits for me to miss a zcancel so he can grab) and falcon (mostly runs and hops from platform to platform, waiting to uair or land a grab).

it is probably the most irritating thing in the world having to always chase after him, and i'm not sure what to do. i play samus primarily, and screw around with luigi, falcon and pikachu - and when i say screw around, i mean i played no one but samus for about nine months until i was totally comfortable with all of her attacks, strengths, weaknesses, tendencies, etcetc (at least in regard to who i play with on a regular basis).

so i guess the tl;dr version is, what's a good way to approach a fleeing/defensive/wait-for-me-to-screw-up-and-refuses-to-attack player?

 

[TANK64]

I have like, a really good response for against Mario/Falcon, just give me a day or two (for good reason).

Oooooor someone else can answer and shiz.

(not trolling).

 

[Morin0]

Falcon is terrible when you're trying to recover and you're up against a character that has a drill move. I imagine he can combo a bit better because of the rotating platforms (see: Kirby in Saffron up-tilting on the helipad) but stages that don't have a solid floor are generally bad, imo, unless your character has options to recover in other directions other than for the most part vertically.

I'll play anyone to prove my point.

EDIT: I also think the barrel isn't that good to be quite honest. I'd say it's almost like having Ness' recovery.

 

[clubbadubba]

samus is not the greatest at chasing characters around since she's a bit slow.
I'll let tank answer since my best answer would probably be to change characters lol

 

[ballin4life]

cobr: gotta bait that usmash bro. not that i know anything about samus in particular but maybe you can pretend to jump in, do a bomb when you're just out of range so that you hover for a second, causing him to whiff the usmash, and then you hit him with a dair bair or whatever samus does. now since you're samus just repeat that 500x and you might actually get a kill

 

[Sempiternity]

don't play samus

but in all seriousness, play on a smaller map (like dreamland) if you're playing against a punk who just runs away

also, dat bair spacing is really useful. try to nick 'em with just your toe. once you hit them, it leads into nothing, so yeah, repeat that 500x and maybe you'll get a kill even with stale moves

dair also has a ridiculous side-to-side range, so you can attack without fear of trading hits, and it sometimes can catch people off guard

a lot of it is very careful spacing with samus. you said you're familiar with all her moves, well look at the hitbox thread (linked in the INDEX), and get really familiar with her hitboxes, because you're gonna need to stretch every attack as far as it'll go for maximum effectiveness

also, up+b all day when entangled with an opponent since your grab is useless. a neat shield break trick is to land a fair or something on a shielded opponent on a platform, land below the platform, and then time the up+b so most of your hits connect at its apex

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Play the waiting game with him, and try to bait him to attack you first, like Ballin said. Samus isn't the best person to chase someone, so you should work on getting him to approach you first, and once he's in your comfort zone, punish the **** out of him.