Yo$himan
No More Free Jumps!
What did I say arby, now you pay me 50 bucks.
-
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Arkansas Smashers Chat
- Thread starter yohnyaul
- Start date
arbustos
Smash Journeyman
Mostly fair usage on stage. He could dair a bit more though for easier kills.
I thought so too
I forgot about this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=5CtykaNmHGA#t=69s
Falco gets pushed off by a combination of Blastoise and Chikorita, then carried back up by the Chikorita as it rises on the tree (which is amazing), and finally bounced along by the Unown into a newly spawned Moltres. It's a gauntlet of death!
The March Hare
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2009
- Messages
- 65
My problem with Dr. Horrible's Sing a long blog summed up by Aristotle in the Poetics.
"It follows plainly, in the first place, that the change, of fortune presented must not be the spectacle of a virtuous man brought from prosperity to adversity: for this moves neither pity nor fear; it merely shocks us. Nor, again, that of a bad man passing from adversity to prosperity: for nothing can be more alien to the spirit of Tragedy; it possesses no single tragic quality; it neither satisfies the moral sense nor calls forth pity or fear. "
"It follows plainly, in the first place, that the change, of fortune presented must not be the spectacle of a virtuous man brought from prosperity to adversity: for this moves neither pity nor fear; it merely shocks us. Nor, again, that of a bad man passing from adversity to prosperity: for nothing can be more alien to the spirit of Tragedy; it possesses no single tragic quality; it neither satisfies the moral sense nor calls forth pity or fear. "
Raven_Knight
Smash Rookie
Aristotle SAYS NO to Dr. Horrible.
I'm reading the Poetics and showed that quote to the Hare. And Aristotle puts it perfectly. Without me realizing it that is the greatest thing that bothered me about Dr. Horrible.
I'm reading the Poetics and showed that quote to the Hare. And Aristotle puts it perfectly. Without me realizing it that is the greatest thing that bothered me about Dr. Horrible.
arbustos
Smash Journeyman
1. The "spectacle" or emotional pull of the whole thing wasn't in Penny's death. That was truly only meant to shock. We, as the audience, feel pity because of his reflection in the final song.
2. It's classically pathetic, not tragic. His fall wasn't the result of any clear, character-defining flaw. Pride, hesitation, nice guy syndrome, boneheaded nemesis are not to blame in the sense or scope of the classical hamartia. In fact, he didn't really fall at all (maybe in a modern sense). "Fate" plays games with his life, and we feel for him.
3. Aristotle was wrong about the vast majority of what he said. His words aren't intellectual gospel.
2. It's classically pathetic, not tragic. His fall wasn't the result of any clear, character-defining flaw. Pride, hesitation, nice guy syndrome, boneheaded nemesis are not to blame in the sense or scope of the classical hamartia. In fact, he didn't really fall at all (maybe in a modern sense). "Fate" plays games with his life, and we feel for him.
3. Aristotle was wrong about the vast majority of what he said. His words aren't intellectual gospel.
arby, looks like smash n' thrash might be yours for the taking.
doubt I will be there as college football aka Razorback season will be starting, and the offer for a PPV event with my family is too much for me to pass up.
doubt I will be there as college football aka Razorback season will be starting, and the offer for a PPV event with my family is too much for me to pass up.
The March Hare
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2009
- Messages
- 65
Yes, aristotle was wrong about a whole host of things. Is he wrong about this? not so much.
Penny - the good character, went from adversity to prosperity to adversity (death) - shocked us.
Was Dr. Horrible a good man? no. He obviously had enough evil hours to be in the Henchman's Union. He had stolen, vandalized, etc. before. The musical romanticized him, but still He was a bad man changing from adversity to prosperity. All bad men regret. They're still evil. <.<
Captain Hammer's story was the only true (classical) tragedy. Falling because of some srs character flaws.
In short, Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along-Blog capitalized on amazing musical skits, great directing, tuuuurific acting, and a cheap shot in the last minute of the film.
was it one of the best damn thingz I've ever seen?
Yes.
Was it written well?
lol, no.
Penny - the good character, went from adversity to prosperity to adversity (death) - shocked us.
Was Dr. Horrible a good man? no. He obviously had enough evil hours to be in the Henchman's Union. He had stolen, vandalized, etc. before. The musical romanticized him, but still He was a bad man changing from adversity to prosperity. All bad men regret. They're still evil. <.<
Captain Hammer's story was the only true (classical) tragedy. Falling because of some srs character flaws.
In short, Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along-Blog capitalized on amazing musical skits, great directing, tuuuurific acting, and a cheap shot in the last minute of the film.
was it one of the best damn thingz I've ever seen?
Yes.
Was it written well?
lol, no.
Yo$himan
No More Free Jumps!
How can something be one of the best things you ever saw and be terrible at the same time?
arbustos
Smash Journeyman
Nice outline. What was the point? Certainly didn't address the strength of the writing. I think they executed exactly what they were aiming for, which simply isn't what you wanted.
The ending wasn't a cheap shot. The plot progression was clearly heading for a twist with a sort of false deception trick. You know it's gonna happen because it has to. The strength of direction, involved themes, and length all belied playing it straight.
gl hf
The ending wasn't a cheap shot. The plot progression was clearly heading for a twist with a sort of false deception trick. You know it's gonna happen because it has to. The strength of direction, involved themes, and length all belied playing it straight.
I don't know how your presence would have changed this fact
gl hf
Lol, yeah what can I say? You're good vs me, and you're good vs Ganon. I'm getting it from both ends from ya. Don't let it get to your head though, because beating me is not much bragging rights. When you prove your worth beyond getting games off me, you might impress me thenI don't know how your presence would have changed this fact
gl hf
The March Hare
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2009
- Messages
- 65
only the writing I found fault with.
I was pointing out how it mirrored aristotle's issues. I was making clear to you why I disagree with your "2" in your original argument.
My outline also summed up all my issues with it's writing/plot structure. It didn't do anything what you should expect in a story with any of the characters except Captain Hammer. I find it hard to even call it a story. It needed more plot development and less character development. I needed MORE.
Simply because a cheap shot is expected doesn't make it not a cheapshot. They were trying for a quick way to finish the story off pessimistically. So they decided to kill her for fast character development of both antagonist and protagonist.
I think they were aiming for what they got, but they brute forced it. Bang bangbang. The end.
Raven_Knight
Smash Rookie
The problem is that Dr. Horrible ISN'T a bad person. From a outside point of view, he does nothing wrong. In fact he is victim.
His life sucks and it continues to suck no matter what happens
Dr. Horrible experiences the fall but he doesn't have a tragic flaw.
Not hubris or anything else to make a person feel that he led to his own undoing through some action of his own
Even with the death ray, it was looking as if he was not going to shoot Captain Hammer.
Watching a play about the burning down of an orphanage and the death
of a innocent orphan may be HORRIBLy Sad, but it is kind of a cheap *** way to get a film to be sad
And that's what Dr. Horrible is. An Innocent with a Horrible life.
Very Modern approach to theater
And I did enjoy it but.............
His life sucks and it continues to suck no matter what happens
Dr. Horrible experiences the fall but he doesn't have a tragic flaw.
Not hubris or anything else to make a person feel that he led to his own undoing through some action of his own
Even with the death ray, it was looking as if he was not going to shoot Captain Hammer.
Watching a play about the burning down of an orphanage and the death
of a innocent orphan may be HORRIBLy Sad, but it is kind of a cheap *** way to get a film to be sad
And that's what Dr. Horrible is. An Innocent with a Horrible life.
Very Modern approach to theater
And I did enjoy it but.............
Seifersythe
Smash Apprentice
How can you say that hubris wasn't the cause of his downfall when he sung a song about taking over the world with a plan that backfired on him?
Dr. Horrible is not an innocent man. He's not a bad man either. He's a man who's straddling the fence idolizing the evil world while be too soft to cut it. In a spur of resentment he makes some rash decisions that results in giving him everything he professed to want at the cost of what he truly wanted. The tragedy doesn't come from Penny dying, but from a man getting way way over his head due to his childish actions while he's powerless to stop it.
He may not have pulled the trigger, but it was his fault that Penny died.
Dr. Horrible is not an innocent man. He's not a bad man either. He's a man who's straddling the fence idolizing the evil world while be too soft to cut it. In a spur of resentment he makes some rash decisions that results in giving him everything he professed to want at the cost of what he truly wanted. The tragedy doesn't come from Penny dying, but from a man getting way way over his head due to his childish actions while he's powerless to stop it.
He may not have pulled the trigger, but it was his fault that Penny died.
BunBun
Smash Master
After I returned home this weekend, I found my half-turquoise half-orange controller nowhere to be found.
Did anyone grab it by accident?
Did anyone grab it by accident?
Raven_Knight
Smash Rookie
Being childish deserves his LOVE OF HIS LIFE BEING OFFED?
Pretty harsh statement.
Besides Dr. Horrible sees himself more as a Revolutionary. Correcting a corrupted society is hardly evil especially with people like Captain Hammer in charge. I wouldn't call him soft. i'd call him naive. he wants to create a better world and he hopes to use more peaceful means to achieve that.
For me Dr. Horrible Was the Super Hero. A hero in a world where the ones called heroes are self centered pricks.
And the directors had the ending like that to try to show that there can be no real heroes, no real good guys without the world corrupting and destroying them.
Pretty harsh statement.
Besides Dr. Horrible sees himself more as a Revolutionary. Correcting a corrupted society is hardly evil especially with people like Captain Hammer in charge. I wouldn't call him soft. i'd call him naive. he wants to create a better world and he hopes to use more peaceful means to achieve that.
For me Dr. Horrible Was the Super Hero. A hero in a world where the ones called heroes are self centered pricks.
And the directors had the ending like that to try to show that there can be no real heroes, no real good guys without the world corrupting and destroying them.
Seifersythe
Smash Apprentice
I never said that the punishment was proportional to the crime, merely that he wasn't a purely innocent man and his actions, arguably directly or indirectly, caused his fall.
"I'll show them. They'll all see. They'll all see how right I was after I become the god of the new world."
Not to say he's any where near the level of Kira, but they shared the same general outlook on the world.
=======
Since we're using Aristotle let's see what he say about what makes a tragedy.
Viewing the world as being filled idiots and 'sheeple' while you're the only one with enough sense to set things right with your rule is the very definition of hubris.
"I'll show them. They'll all see. They'll all see how right I was after I become the god of the new world."
Not to say he's any where near the level of Kira, but they shared the same general outlook on the world.
=======
Since we're using Aristotle let's see what he say about what makes a tragedy.
Hmm.
arbustos
Smash Journeyman
Oooooh reallyWhen you prove your worth beyond getting games off me, you might impress me then
I said this wasn't a tragedy in the classical sense, meaning Aristotle's caveats for a classical tragedy are moot. You agree with me by saying only Captain Hammer is a classically tragic figure, and he is as irrelevant to the point of the musical as Penny's death. She is meant to develop Dr. Horrible, and his development serves as a reflection on the nature of our world. Plenty of philosophers and authors have made much the same point in their own unique ways. This isn't a Greek play! It's more like a modern Allegory of the Cave (with catchy tunes). Allegory/fable/parable is probably the best way to think about it.
I also have a big problem with his assertion that changes of fortune do not call forth pity. That seems to spit in the face of the last 1000 years of fiction.
See: parable, etc.
By what "you" expect, you mean what you two expect. Your dad having the same problem highlights the significance of a heavily classical literary background.
"more plot development and less character development"
Lawl welcome to the last hundred years or more in fiction
Actually, it seems to me that the crucial element to a cheapshot is that you don't expect it.
They weren't trying for a quick finish at all. It was FORTY minutes long. The idea was to better impress the take away message (which itself leaves room for interpretation and inner monologue). It's just a character you've grown to know dying abruptly. Common (and effective) technique. You guys are hating because I don't know why. Maybe you just haven't gotten the whole parable thing yet. Judging that short of a project, well directed as it is, as anything else blows my mind.
Brute force vs impact/shock. Looks like two sides of the same coin, where you're siding with the notion that they didn't have a clear plan and/or were hacks. Or you're saying things you really know aren't true because it is an easy way to make sense of what you felt.
How so? Is any event which inspires sympathy or empathy cheap?
Execution is key, and Dr. Horrible was amazingly executed. It's abrupt because it was meant to be. Everyone but you guys can agree that it was damn effective (and this technique certainly isn't effective in many hack job films - takes talent).
That's your interpretation (not that there's anything wrong with it). I don't agree though.
The goal of philosophical works (whatever form they might take) is to raise questions in the mind of the reader or viewer. That is the real Dr. Horrible, not entertaining music + wasted potential. Criticizing the story for not adhering to classical modes really is like giving the same treatment to Plato. "OH REALLY. He finally leaves the cave, and it just ends?" Then you'd take denouement as your war chant and miss the point completely.
Nope, sorry. Good luck recovering it.
you dunderheaded nincompoops kept me up way past my bedtime :[
Raven_Knight
Smash Rookie
I'm going to pull the English Professor Card here
My dad thought the same as me
Obviously not everyone thought it 'damn effective' only the ones brought up by NON-English professor fathers at least on this forum(and plus be careful when you say everyone, a random search of the internet (which I just did) can find other people who agree with me Define your terms more carefully such as 'Everyone I've met but you guys')
I love Dr. Horrible. But it primarily relies on a very strong musical score, diverse acting talent, and an amazing director to boost a less than amazing (to me) narrative.
And guys you have to realize I'm not saying that isn't good or effective for other people. I'm saying that in MY opinion the lack of almost any element of a classical plot structure makes the story less effective to ME who has had a very classical upbringing. Those without the upbringing and thus a more accepting literary mind set have less problems enjoying a very modern musical.
Literary Criticism is a broad field and greatly influenced by the individual's human experience.
My dad thought the same as me
Obviously not everyone thought it 'damn effective' only the ones brought up by NON-English professor fathers at least on this forum(and plus be careful when you say everyone, a random search of the internet (which I just did) can find other people who agree with me Define your terms more carefully such as 'Everyone I've met but you guys')
I love Dr. Horrible. But it primarily relies on a very strong musical score, diverse acting talent, and an amazing director to boost a less than amazing (to me) narrative.
And guys you have to realize I'm not saying that isn't good or effective for other people. I'm saying that in MY opinion the lack of almost any element of a classical plot structure makes the story less effective to ME who has had a very classical upbringing. Those without the upbringing and thus a more accepting literary mind set have less problems enjoying a very modern musical.
Literary Criticism is a broad field and greatly influenced by the individual's human experience.
Yo$himan
No More Free Jumps!
I can not accept this. You guys read a lot of manga and love "slice of life." Dr. Horrible is the very definition of slice of life. It actually stays more true to the slice of life themes by starting and ending abruptly. You guys have overrode your classical upbringing many times, but for this you are saying you can't? To this end, I don't think your upbringing has any significant influence.
So thoughts of retiring from smash have been flooding my mind lately. I'm not exactly sure why to be honest. I guess it just feels like it's holding me back with getting on with my life. I'm not sure how to interpret it, but I feel like I might not play as much. Go from a premier member of the A.S.S. to a background guy who casually plays with his hardcore friends. Or something.
Idk yet :/
Idk yet :/
Vts
Smash Champion
It's a hobby, everyone wants to go on with life and what not ,play it more of a hobby don't think of it as a job or your required to be good at it.
Yeah, I just like to be good at it if I'm gonna play it. I just will have to not mind if I get beat anymore.
Also, this song is pretty true.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfeys7Jfnx8&feature=related
ihavespaceblondes
Smash Master
Pretty positive I saw it earlier today, but I'll make sure when I get home tonight.
arbustos
Smash Journeyman
Well obviously. I'm not omniscient
I still think your issues with the brevity of the story could be alleviated if you framed it more as a parable or something. It uses a simple plot (lacking much in the way of classical structure) to convey a message. That they made it so entertaining is a credit to their talent. Aesop's fables and other children's stories are also entertaining, but very clearly do not have the best or most cohesive narratives in the literary world.
I don't get that. Smash is something you occasionally do for fun. It's like giving up reading, or bowling, or surfing the internet. I guess it would make sense if you couldn't dissociate smash with being a "kid" (few responsibilities and lots of free time). But I don't see the dichotomy between smash and a "real" life. Time certainly isn't the issue. You play when you want and can, which is still maybe once a week. Then you travel a few hours out of state every couple months. It has to be a mentality thing... if you think you can't achieve your goals and truly move into adulthood while playing smash, then I can't dissuade you :\
-yeah what vts said
I think my desire to want to be good is too strong. And if I just play for fun then I become half-rate, and that's something I'm not good at tolerating.Well obviously. I'm not omniscient
I still think your issues with the brevity of the story could be alleviated if you framed it more as a parable or something. It uses a simple plot (lacking much in the way of classical structure) to convey a message. That they made it so entertaining is a credit to their talent. Aesop's fables and other children's stories are also entertaining, but very clearly do not have the best or most cohesive narratives in the literary world.
I don't get that. Smash is something you occasionally do for fun. It's like giving up reading, or bowling, or surfing the internet. I guess it would make sense if you couldn't dissociate smash with being a "kid" (few responsibilities and lots of free time). But I don't see the dichotomy between smash and a "real" life. Time certainly isn't the issue. You play when you want and can, which is still maybe once a week. Then you travel a few hours out of state every couple months. It has to be a mentality thing... if you think you can't achieve your goals and truly move into adulthood while playing smash, then I can't dissuade you :\
-yeah what vts said
I think you guys are right though, seeing as how I'm probably the least "active" smasher in the state besides chams, who doesn't play, I rarely devote much time to it these days.
arbustos
Smash Journeyman
I see SnakeMan posting around. When will the master unveil his student, Zane?
Or maybe, when will the student reveal himself?
Seif, these are awesome. As a Youtube comment quipped, Makotowned.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4wAaQug4HQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYNOGIHcqvU
Kokujin=one of the best players in the world
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm1vDFIQNnM
oooh buddy
those combos, dem reads
I guess Sean can win... in the hands of the best player
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWLu09_m03Q
Giant definitive compilation of the game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6ZR4LuDgjY
Or maybe, when will the student reveal himself?
Seif, these are awesome. As a Youtube comment quipped, Makotowned.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4wAaQug4HQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYNOGIHcqvU
Kokujin=one of the best players in the world
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm1vDFIQNnM
oooh buddy
those combos, dem reads
I guess Sean can win... in the hands of the best player
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWLu09_m03Q
Giant definitive compilation of the game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6ZR4LuDgjY
SmokeMaxX
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2010
- Messages
- 210
Hey guys,
Some Shreveport Melee players are requesting housing. I think Ace said he's down for housing. You guys minding contacting him or giving me his contact info so I can hook the Shreveport guys up and make sure they can come on up to ARK IV?
Thanks
Some Shreveport Melee players are requesting housing. I think Ace said he's down for housing. You guys minding contacting him or giving me his contact info so I can hook the Shreveport guys up and make sure they can come on up to ARK IV?
Thanks
Vts
Smash Champion
Might be able to house some people at the cabot house gotta see if parents will let me use that house since it's for sell
kvetching- participle of kvetch
Verb: Complain
kvetko? what does it mean!
arbustos
Smash Journeyman
Coincidence? Or proof of God?
then I saw your face
now I'm a believer
not a Trace
of doubt in my mind
then I saw your face
now I'm a believer
not a Trace
of doubt in my mind
I saw you capitalize Trace for Seif's benefit
Seifersythe
Smash Apprentice
Yeah, he's pretty Zane-y like that.
ArkansasGamersLeague
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2011
- Messages
- 1
Smash n Thrash II is almost here. Looks like we should have a good attendance like last time! http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=182381548479312&ref=ts
Vts
Smash Champion
idk i think he's a little Rusty, maybe his Will isn't in it anymore.
Yo$himan
No More Free Jumps!
arbustos
Smash Journeyman
Well played
What time do you think the earliest Melee event will begin?
SmokeMaxX
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2010
- Messages
- 210
Shirts made for ARK IV.
$10 each.
It'll look very very similar to this (they might adjust the whites): http://www.ooshirts.com/gen_image/Z16wM83 Front.jpg
The design has come a long way, but I hope everyone's happy with it. Now that we know what we can/can't do, we'll be able to design an even better one next year.
Out of what I've ordered, here's the current stock we'll have available:
Sizes: 8 S, 9 M, 10 L 7 XL 2 XXL
Other shirts have been reserved for Thang, Josh R., Matthew M., Ian T., Justin C., Cody G., Afro, Inebro, Alex S., Ghost, Seel, tyler, dennis, panda, Adrian, duckie
$10 each.
It'll look very very similar to this (they might adjust the whites): http://www.ooshirts.com/gen_image/Z16wM83 Front.jpg
The design has come a long way, but I hope everyone's happy with it. Now that we know what we can/can't do, we'll be able to design an even better one next year.
Out of what I've ordered, here's the current stock we'll have available:
Sizes: 8 S, 9 M, 10 L 7 XL 2 XXL
Other shirts have been reserved for Thang, Josh R., Matthew M., Ian T., Justin C., Cody G., Afro, Inebro, Alex S., Ghost, Seel, tyler, dennis, panda, Adrian, duckie
memk
Smash Cadet
Whats everyone doing this weekend?
All I know is SNT
All I know is SNT
Going home for a fun filled weekend of COLLEGE FOOTBALL!!
Whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Pig suey!!
Yo$himan
No More Free Jumps!
razorhacks!
arbustos
Smash Journeyman
My mommy is visiting, and then I am going to take your money at Smash n Thrash
Only Yoshiman and I are coming, so you should get third place
putting off homework until the (sleepless) night before it's due is a bad idea...