Arizona Brawl Power Rankings and Brawl Social Thread (Updated: November 2013)

[Govikings07]

FD should not be a cp! Like Jane said strike it. Most matches end up on the other 2 anyways.

it would suck to put it as a cp because if we were to keep the japanese ruleset then players that love FD wont ever get to play on it since FD will be able to get banned as a cp.

also its not like we see alot od diddys and ICs anyways

 

[SFA Smiley]

would you disagree with me that striking/banning solves that issue though?

Disagree.

Because even with Battlefield being an aerial based stage it's not radically enough so to stop the ground based characters from being decent on it, while characters like Marth and Wario (and anyone really) gets stomped on FD.

Battlefield still has it's advantages for the more ground/spam based characters while also having extremely strong presence on the other flat stages

The more air based characters get a bit of a boost off of a stage such as BF but ultimately the stage is still flat and difficult to fight those characters on because those characters rely on stage control and in exchange for some increased juggling potential is the potential to control more space. Aerial characters don't get any boost whatsoever from FD.

But like I said, I have my opinions, I got off work and havent slept yet so I don't have all day to talk about it. This is how I feel though and others have brought up this concern too. Smashville gives that inevitability of hitting the ground that FD does but has a platform to give characters more options for recovering, space control/zoning, juggling. This is why I feel it should just replace FD and be a CP. It's just... better and less polarizing and suits the same purpose in a more equal manner.

It's used more AS a CP than the other starters. Smashville is picked because of the reasons I stated and the fact that everyone likes it/is lazy. BF is picked in a CP manner but there are more significant aerial stages like lylat. FD is a choice CP for Diddy's, Oli's, Falcos. We have data, just go to any tournament playing your Oli and ask if the opponent wants to start on FD. 9 times outta Rob they'll say: Smashville?

 

[Aaven]

^ But.... Striking/Banning still pretty much solves that though.

FD should remain a Starter in my opinion, if anyone hates it that much they can strike/ban it, problem solved.

 

[Jane]

but how does striking/banning not solve the issue?

Edit- ninjad by aaven. Btw you were totally in my dream last night haha. I don't recall exactly what happened though. All I recall is that it was in like a party setting

 

[SFA Smiley]

but how does striking/banning not solve the issue?

Because characters who do well on FD still **** on BF, not vice versa (except MK but he's not really the target of the convo)

I just don't see why we're powering up good characters and further nerfing ones that aren't as good/polarizing?

 

[Jane]

BF is diddy and IC's weakest starter stage though, no? Certainly much worse for both of them than SV

 

[Aaven]

A party setting in your dream? Sounds legit.

I should be in people's dreams more often.

 

[SFA Smiley]

IC's are fantastic jugglers, Uair is like their best normal.

It's their worst starter but it's not MUCH worse. Unlike fighting ICs using anyone else on FD.

But these are my opinions take it as you will. I don't have any projectiles, I can't take you to Brinstar but you can take me to FD, **** is lame. I'm going to sleep.

 

[Govikings07]

But snake, mk, and marth do better on the other 2. seems about even to me.

well everyone is going to have to get cped smiley (except mk)

 

[KiraFlax]

The problem lies in the fact that you're calling them "neutrals." You're right, fd isn't neutral. Some characters have decent advantages on fd. But the same applies to sv and bf as well.
When the bbr, the urc, or whatever other group uses the term starter, it is deliberate. No stage is neutral. But, those 3 stages are even enough that you can start a set on even grounds. With the striking system, it becomes even more effective.

proof that Real Niggas exist.

no need to make FD a CP. Plenty of characters gain an advantage on BF (see: marth) so if we want to be really objective then that leaves us with SV.

If you don't like playing on FD, strike it

More proof that Real niggas exist.

Just as Jard said FD is fine and just like jane said, just strike the stage if you dont like it. Yoshis island is bad for my characters and lylat/ps1 are stages i dont like. so back with the 5 starters i would just strike em. If yoshis island was in replacement with FD it would most likely get striked anyways more often then fd would and then we would play on sv like it ussually happends or some times bf.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

BF doesn't shut down players, FD does.

 

[Jane]

so how is removing FD from the starters gonna solve anything if characters like ICs are still good on the other two starters? You just want to force them to go to SV everytime?

 

[Govikings07]

BF doesn't shut down players, FD does.

i have not seen many matches go to FD!

 

[SFA Smiley]

Because FD is a starter i that too polarizing to remain a starter I'm not saying ban it, but it IS a CP.

@ROB: because it's a CP and nobody wants to play there on the first game.

 

[SFA Smiley]

Whatever, not gonna get salty about it. I'm going to sleep.

 

[KiraFlax]

BF doesn't shut down players, FD does.

didnt you mean YI? and besides YI shuts people down too.

 

[Govikings07]

marth, mk and snake do way better on SV AND BF. Diddy, Oli and Falcos do better on FD. This doesnt seem even to you guys?

I rarely see the first game go to FD and by adding it to a CP it will be seen even less.

 

[KiraFlax]

Plus you got dumb things that save you. DK has invincibility glitch on there and stage structure makes it a lot harder to pick up your items. fd bf and SV all have ways to go under the stage too. the platform being so low in the middle and through out helps close range fighters too much just like it does snake on the first part of halabard and the second part on frigate. FD BF and SV are way more similar than then BF SV and YI. The odd one out is YI by far. another option could be remove FD but we will not do that and bring down the starters to 2 stages because that breaks the striking system. we could switch it out with another stage besides YI as well........... no..... just no. because theres nothing else that would be more worthy of a starter than yi and thats excluding FD.

 

[Silly Kyle]

We should do:

8 minute timer

Neutrals-
SV
BF
PS1

CPs-
YI
FD
Lylat
Frigate

 

[Aaven]

Why Pokemon Stadium 1 Kyle?

 

[Silly Kyle]

Although PS1 can be considered a CP, instead of having all flat stages as "neutrals", we can throw one in that changes from flat to non-flat and put FD in the CP stagelist instead

 

[Govikings07]

hahahaha oh i know why ps1 kyle

 

[Silly Kyle]

PS1 is hella fair! xD

 

[KiraFlax]

We could possibly go back to 5 stages starter or even 7 stage starters as options. I heard that this summer theres a big eastcoast tournament with the starters FD BF SV YI and delfino. (but thats for doubles.)

MY vote is

Neutrals
FD
BF
SV

Counter picks
FD
BF
SV

straight up japanese style. most legit list ive ever seen.


Also kyle PS1 is not legit enough to replace YI or FD my ni'gga

 

[Aaven]

^ I agree, I don't really see a need for all these extra stages anyway, three or four overall seems perfectly acceptable to me, I would actually prefer no Counterpicks at all to be honest, don't use 'em.

 

[Govikings07]

im fine with what we have now.

 

[Jane]

I'm also fine with what we use now. My earlier vote of 3 starters and 5 CPs is only with taj's better rule in effect so I can ban all the CPs lol

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Caters to all 3 gameplays, Air, Ground, Campy mix

Add Jungle Japes as a CP and I'm in! (If you don't thats cool too, I just love Jungle Japes)

 

[KiraFlax]

then we should add picto chat too that would be tight

 

[Jane]

add in all the stupid stages y'all want, as long as I have the option to ban them all I'm fine

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Pictochat is legit trollness with my texture, the drawings are next to invisible XD

But Pictochat is pretty cool too, not as much as Jungle Japes, but its up there.

 

[Aaven]

Pictochat is my favorite derpy troll stage, I only wish it was legal.

 

[lusiris]

Pictochat is my favorite derpy troll stage, I only wish it was legal.

It is legal in some scenes. The thing with having it only as the three neutrals all the time is it takes away a lot of the ability for a character to choose a stage that helps his character. The three neutrals allow campy and chain grab characters to excel. that is why the japanese tier list has olimar as #3and Ice climbers as #2. These characters excel at these flat stages. By having Taj's rule in effect it caters to both sides and allow for a pretty balanced system.

 

[DerpDaBerp]

yes for what we have now
FD
SV
BF

PS1
Lylat
YI

And if we can all agree with he implemtation of Taj's better rule we can add to CP's:
Delfino
Castle

 

[Govikings07]

i sure miss them orpheons

 

[OkamiBW]

I propose the following:

Neutrals
FD
YS
FoD
BF
DL64

Counterpicks
PS
BS
RC
KJ64

Taj's Better Rule in Effect

 

[Yoshiken96]

Lets go ahead and add Wario Ware. I am so good at dodging those rain drops and arrows, that I bet I would have a star half of the match, while the other half I am getting healed. Also, add Big Blue because that level is so fun and F-zero music is frikkin' tight.

 

[DerpDaBerp]

melee

lulz0rxxxx

 

[RaveRemix]

Here is my proposed ruleset, hopefully you guys will like it.

Ultimately, I'm thinking that instead of Taj's rule, I think we should give the option of banning 1 Neutral OR 2 counterpicks. The problem with Taj's rule is that we'll most likely never see matches played out in CP stages, as you can imagine most of the time, people will choose the option to ban all CPs. And even if someone bans the only Neutral worth banning (Final Destination), you'll most likely just end up going to Smashville anyway (as that's the closest stage to FD structurally).

Here's my proposed stage list that would go along with this (ban 1 neutral, or ban 2 CPs) ruleset:

Neutral:
Smashville
Battlefield
Final Destination

Counterpick:
Lylat Cruise
Yoshi's Island
Pokemon Stadium 1
Castle Siege
Delfino Plaza


...or we can just stick to what we have now. XD

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

I tried a ruleset of my own in a mini tournament at my house with some of my friends. Here it is.
Starters:
YI:B
BF
SV
PS1
Lylat

Counterpicks:
FD
CS
Delphino
JJ <3
Frigate
Brinstar

But since that stagelist sucks as much as my friends do at noticing faults in stuff.. I definitely like the idea of 1 ban for starters or 2 bans for CP's. I could honestly care less what stages we have as long as we get more of them and they are viable competitively.

Still want JJ, I love that stage so much <3