Arizona Brawl Power Rankings and Brawl Social Thread (Updated: November 2013)

[DerpDaBerp]

Character specific rules that have gone through at some point (not necessarily in our region):

* Double Metaknights not being allowed in Doubles in certain tournaments
* Metaknight being banned altogether in certain tournaments

Double MK is broken (I guess ). Single MK is not
Making a rule specific to a character is different than banning him altogether because it would be an arbitrary middle-ground assumed by a TO that can't be objective.
Also considering if someone beats an MK on FD because it had to be available as a counterpick, that's only one match, and the MK player can prevent them from going back there again for the whole set.

Well the idea I was going to propose was pretty much Taj's Better Rule that's being used for Melee in the state.

TAJ's Better Rule: A person may either ban EVERY COUNTERPICK STAGE or ONE STARTER STAGE

I think Okami, should test this out at his next Brawl tourney.

The problem remains where the MK player can choose to ban FD. I don't, like... know much about MK anyway but having FD available seemed to be a concern.

 

[SFA Smiley]

I was gonna propose Taj's better rule actually

 

[lusiris]

Well the idea I was going to propose was pretty much Taj's Better Rule that's being used for Melee in the state.

TAJ's Better Rule: A person may either ban EVERY COUNTERPICK STAGE or ONE STARTER STAGE

I think Okami, should test this out at his next Brawl tourney.

That is actually a pretty smart idea. It allows for more stage diversity and the ability to not have to worry about having MK mess you up off stage. we can add more stages to the CP list and not have to worry about people complaining because they can just ban all of them if need be.

So if people don't time out in our scene very often what is wrong with making it 10 minutes. If they don't time out then it's going to stay under 8 minutes and if they try to it is going to be that much harder with 10 minutes.

 

[SFA Smiley]

**** FD

MK is still **** there, but so are Olimar, Snake, Tink, ICs, Diddy etc etc

MK doesn't suddenly suck there

So seriously **** FD

Edit: @Derp, they still have smashville.

 

[Jane]

Also considering if someone beats an MK on FD, that's only one match, and the MK player can prevent them from going back there again for the whole set.

"someone" cant go back there anyways. you cant go back to a stage you won on (unless the other party agrees).

That is actually a pretty smart idea. It allows for more stage diversity and the ability to not have to worry about having MK mess you up off stage. we can add more stages to the CP list and not have to worry about people complaining because they can just ban all of them if need be.

under these circumstances, i would be down to add in all the gay stages. since i'll never be able to be taken there lulz

 

[DerpDaBerp]

"someone" cant go back there anyways. you cant go back to a stage you won on (unless the other party agrees).



under these circumstances, i would be down to add in all the gay stages. since i'll never be able to be taken there lulz

Yeah man that's what I'm saying lol


and if we use Taj's better rule, are we keeping the same 6 stages or are we opening it up

 

[RaveRemix]

That is actually a pretty smart idea. It allows for more stage diversity and the ability to not have to worry about having MK mess you up off stage. we can add more stages to the CP list and not have to worry about people complaining because they can just ban all of them if need be.

So if people don't time out in our scene very often what is wrong with making it 10 minutes. If they don't time out then it's going to stay under 8 minutes and if they try to it is going to be that much harder with 10 minutes.

So much truth in this post.

Well the moment, I'm not sure which stages we would allow if we put Taj's Better Rule into effect, all I know is that the CP list would definitely grow. I guess that'll be left to debate.

 

[Govikings07]

i love FD

 

[TommyDerMeister]

melee has 5 starters and 3 cp stages. we could possibly move Yoshi's + idk PS1 maybe, to the starter list and then add delfino and i guess siege or frigate to the cp list.

we would be keeping the rest of the japanese ruleset. it's just the stage list+cp system being changed.

also Jonny, that rule you mentioned is not in the japanese ruleset. that's Dave's Stupid Rule. You can keep going back to the stage in the same set if you win, but that kinda only applies once you play Best of 5s.

 

[Duff0]

less stages = better.

 

[lusiris]

Why not open it up? We can have a lot more stages because when it comes down to it you can ban all cp's if you want. I'm not saying put Big Blue on there but I don't see a reason why we can't have Pictochat on the cp list with that rule in effect. If one player wants to play on neutrals you will play on neutrals all the time and if a character like Wario doesn't want to fight on FD then no matter what he won't on FD. I think it is a awesome rule.

 

[Duff0]

ive seen a ton of gross stuff happen on cp stages its not what a tournament is about

 

[DerpDaBerp]

and thus the party game is faced with its identity crisis


damnit duffy, I miss you




girly

 

[Duff0]

< 3

miss you too girl

 

[lusiris]

That is the beauty of it. If you don't want any cp stages with TAj's rule you won't have to worry about playing on a single one.

 

[DerpDaBerp]

as long as brinstar is a banned stage

 

[Aaven]

less stages = better.

^ ^

 

[lusiris]

Rave would be the one to decide what is implemented but I think most of the cp stages could be decided pretty easy like delfino plaza and castle siege

 

[TommyDerMeister]

I still don't think we need tyo grossly just open up a bunch of stages that have been banned for a while now, and for good reason.

This is an idea I have right now. 8 stages, 4 Starter + 4 Counter Pick.

Starter
BF
FD
SV
YI

CP
PS1
Lylat
Delfino
Siege or Halberd


I toyed with some other ones like 3 Starter (like the Japanese Ruleset) and 5 Counter Picks, or "Reverse Melee", which is essentially the essence of this game...
Starter
BF
FD
SV

CP
YI
PS1
Lylat
Delfino
Siego or Halberd

if you keep it in the Melee format though, like how the rule is being used which is 5 Starter and 3 Counter Picks

Starter
BF
FD
SV
YI
PS1 or Lylat

CP
PS1 or Lylat
Delfino
Siege or Halberd

with all of these it essentially comes down to how we feel about Lylat and PS1 being Starter or CP, except for the second one I posted which keeps the 3 Starters like Japanese Ruleset. I like that list the most. The Japanese Ruleset does not have a Dave's Stupid Rule, something to keep in mind.

Then siege and/or halberd, if we even want them, idk.

This doesn't have to be tested at this upcoming tourney. Perhaps at the next Tucson tourney.

 

[lusiris]

I like the 3 and 5

 

[RaveRemix]

Edit: Thinking this through some more

 

[Yoshiken96]

We need as many levels as we can so that I can hack on as much of my awesome music as I can.

 

[DerpDaBerp]

speaking of, I know it's really popular with some of you guys, but I just... there are some wii's that'll play j-pop and k-pop in the matches and it's really kind of distracting lol. And in the menu screens. And considering a setup can sit unused for a good amount of time, that **** gets really annoying lolol

sorry if that offends some of your guys' tastes, I just felt I should voice that :x


unless Rave is dancing at the same time, then it's cool

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Why don't we do a survey and ask what stages we want as starters, CP, and banned? Start from all of the stages and vote for them one at a time and make a stagelist based off of that?

 

[Yoshiken96]

speaking of, I know it's really popular with some of you guys, but I just... there are some wii's that'll play j-pop and k-pop in the matches and it's really kind of distracting lol. And in the menu screens. And considering a setup can sit unused for a good amount of time, that **** gets really annoying lolol

SO TRUE, lol. I am just going to start turning off unused Wii's if they have annoying music playing. Actually, maybe I should start turning them off even if they are being used, haha.

 

[lusiris]

How about we just turn the sound down to a appropriate level. I hate when someone turns up a tv till its so loud that is can be heard throughout the room.

 

[TommyDerMeister]

while on the subject of horses**t on people's wii's...

If you have character model hacks (texture hacks where the character is completely re-shaped into another character, but still has the same moves, like Goku-Captain Falcon for example) or stage model hacks (where the shape of the stage is altered), please remove these before the tournament. The character ones are not only terrible looking anyway, but they can/do alter the hitboxes/hurtboxes on characters if the person who made them was not careful. While it seems safe while you play, it's better to just remove them completely before tourneys.

Texture hacks can be cool, as long as they aren't over a team color, unless the texture is mostly of that color. And stage textures, try to make sure they aren't too dark.

 

[Jane]

lets have a vote on stage stuff. my ideal setup would be:

starters:
FD, BF, SV

counterpicks:
yoshis, PS1, lylat, delfino, castle

with taj's rule in effect. halberd has that stupid cannon shit, which yes, is easy to dodge, but its still a random bullshit that gets in the way. there shouldn't be anything that can hurt you on a stage (for "supersrs tourney" setting at least. i still love pictochat).

while on the subject of horses**t on people's wii's...

this made me lol. but yeah i agree with the rest of this post.

 

[TommyDerMeister]

I second what you posted Johnny.

 

[Aaven]

My vote goes to this layout, sorry:

Starters
Smashville
Smashville
Smashville

Counterpicks
Battlefield
Battlefield
Battlefield
Battlefield
Battlefield

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

I mean like go though all the stages (that need to be voted on at all, we can leave New Pork City and friends out of the voting)

I was thinking like this:
Voting for Mario Kart (just an example, this would never get votes from anything but trolls)
2 people say Mario Kart should be a starter
4 people say Mario Kart should be a CP
5 people say Mario Kart should be banned
Mario Kart would be a CP, since if they want it as a neutral, they would be fine with it as a CP

And we go through all of the viable stages (Even gayimmicky ones like Pictochat) one at a time and make a stagelist based on that.

 

[SFA Smiley]

Why? That takes too much time, we already know what people do and do not like to play on generally.

Also it's way more controversial but I feel that FD should be a CP because it basically IS.

SV is a more balanced FD anyway, there's no point in having two of those in neutrals. I've always felt this way and there is actually a surprising amount of people that agree with me if you've ever voyaged into the stage discussion forum.

Dunno how it'd affect our credibility as a scene but FD is basically RC for characters like ICs, and Diddy.

 

[lusiris]

I agree with Smiley. FD is not entirely balanced and I think Yoshi's is more balanced than FD. I would be behind putting FD in CP or replacing it with Yoshi's

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

^This is exacty what I'm talking about, I always felt FD was a counterpick, but I feel like it is so radical that noone else would agree with me on it.

 

[Jar'd]

The problem lies in the fact that you're calling them "neutrals." You're right, fd isn't neutral. Some characters have decent advantages on fd. But the same applies to sv and bf as well.
When the bbr, the urc, or whatever other group uses the term starter, it is deliberate. No stage is neutral. But, those 3 stages are even enough that you can start a set on even grounds. With the striking system, it becomes even more effective.

 

[SFA Smiley]

The problem lies in the fact that you're calling them "neutrals." You're right, fd isn't neutral. Some characters have decent advantages on fd. But the same applies to sv and bf as well.
When the bbr, the urc, or whatever other group uses the term starter, it is deliberate. No stage is neutral. But, those 3 stages are even enough that you can start a set on even grounds. With the striking system, it becomes even more effective.

I do not believe FD is balanced enough to be a starter then.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Neutrals is just a term used commonly with Starters, usually they are meant in the same context, just not knowing that there is an actual difference.

FD has more polarizing matches than SV and BF. With those 3, grounded characters are favored more than aerial. That's the benefit of a larger stagelist. More stages are available to make the starter stages more even in terms of striking.

 

[Jane]

no need to make FD a CP. Plenty of characters gain an advantage on BF (see: marth) so if we want to be really objective then that leaves us with SV.

If you don't like playing on FD, strike it

 

[SFA Smiley]

BF isn't balanced either, But marth on BF is nowhere near as polarizing as ICs on FD, for example.

 

[Jane]

would you disagree with me that striking/banning solves that issue though?