[Apr 19, 2014] No Johns Monthly! April 19th!! Project M ! (Nanuet, NY)

[Aber]

Hbox was literally sitting inches from Cpt. Crunch telling him every single move to do while playing Phish It. If I were Phish It I would be pissed. Granted, I believe this kind of constant coaching isn't particularly helpful and can be annoying and distracting but that may just be for me. Also, I'm wasn't sure what the coaching policies exactly are so I didn't think much of it. If mid match coaching is NOT allowed then Hbox was breaking the rules but apparently he believes himself to be above the rules. Wouldn't expect anything less from him really

 

[Alex Strife]

Well this is something you should ask before hand. Saying " I was not sure so I did nothing " does not help. You stop and wait to talk to the TO. To me this is another example of complaining about something after the fact.

 

[Smelly Cat]

keep it civil

 

[Aber]

keep it civil

....what?




Strife.....you're absolutely right. A couple people definitley commented on it. SOMEONE should have let Brian know.

 

[Alex Strife]

IMO this is what can be done.

Fix up the OP with the rules and such...and just print out the rules for the events and put them up and tell ppl they are up. PPL confused? Look at the rules and talk to the TO.

 

[Shadow Huan]

For me personally I feel like it is like boxing and other fights...everyone should have a coach. As far as telling Brian...if you were super serious you should not have finished or started a match until the TO was there. This is why we make these rules.

Hbox was literally sitting inches from Cpt. Crunch telling him every single move to do while playing Phish It. If I were Phish It I would be pissed. Granted, I believe this kind of constant coaching isn't particularly helpful and can be annoying and distracting but that may just be for me. Also, I'm wasn't sure what the coaching policies exactly are so I didn't think much of it. If mid match coaching is NOT allowed then Hbox was breaking the rules but apparently he believes himself to be above the rules. Wouldn't expect anything less from him really

that's what Hbox was doing while i was playing Cpt. Crunch as well. a boxer doesn't have his coach shouting out which punch to throw does he? (I don't think that would even be effective, considering the two guys are hitting eachother in the head during the round lol)... although i find the last part a little unfair to Hbox, to me he didn't seem like the type to purposely break the rules, esp when he was trying to help his friend (and getting him DQ'd for being coached isn't helping lol).

Strife.....you're absolutely right. A couple people definitley commented on it. SOMEONE should have let Brian know.

As for this, i asked Hbox to stop after round one (politely iirc) and he said he could 'cause it was Apex ruleset. I asked Gonzoales to go ask and he came back saying it was allowed.

In retrospect, Alex Strife is absolutely right, I should've gone with Gonzo to find out myself and explain the situation. I'll be sure to put my foot down next time, live and learn right? *shrugs*

 

[Alex Strife]

to be fair im sure Hbox did not know the rule so dont paint him out as some villain just because he was helping his friend. That is just you being salty. We do not like that around these parts xD

 

[Shadow Huan]

who me? lol

 

[Niko45]

If somebody is coaching mid match against you, pause and report that **** immediately. It's clearly not ok to do that. Simple stuff.

 

[Sol]

But if someone is telling the other person what to do, can't you just listen to what their saying and know what they are gonna do since they are being puppet-ed and counter them?

 

[Ryobeat]

no i mean like, i wish there was pools this time, so you have a chance of advancing.

 

[hungrybox]

Stop putting words in people's mouths. I coached Crunch round one, and the guy asked me to stop. I said that the tournament was following the Apex ruleset, where Seibrik did the exact same thing for me. He wanted to ask if it was allowed. If it wasn't allowed, of course I would have stopped. But it was in the rules. I didn't do anything wrong. Just wanted my best friend (primary reason i flew up here anyway) to succeed in tournament.

Plus I was returning the favor for him being the only person to give a damn to actually find someone to pick me up from the airport. That was kind of ****ed up by the way. Doubt I'll go to another New York tournament if people are that reluctant to even pick up OOSers from the Airport. Like, that sucked. Being there for 4 extra hours.

If Hax or someone was at the MCO (Orlando International) airport before a tournament started, like hell would I leave him stranded there. Just saying, learn how to treat well people who travel a long way to come to No Johns.

Shouts to Diesel for picking me up.

Shoutout to Capn Crunch for being mah buddy

Shouts to Alu for a fun tourney

Teams were mad fun with hax

money matches were fun too

Ness is nice

In Maine at the moment. Banks, Thorn, Solar: y'all are a good bunch.

see people at Zenith

 

[CaptainCrunch]

Woah. What's with all this Hbox coaching me stuff. He was literally saying stuff I already knew. He was just telling me to stay calm. Don't get greedy. He was just trying to calm me down in a tough match. From what I understand that's always been allowed at tourneys and I see it all the time such as mango coaching pp or aniolas coaching armada. When you're in a high pressure situation it's easy to lose sight of the big picture and stay calm. I played my match. Hungrybox didn't press the buttons for me and he didn't tell me what moves to do.

ALSO! some guy asked Hbox to stop and Hbox said that it was APEX ruleset. Someone went to ask the TO and then came back and said it was allowed which is why Hbox continued. Because we were told it wasn't against the rules.

Also coaching is not that OP lol. As if you could give coaching to a bad player and they'll suddenly win a set against a better player. I won my set, don't try to diminish that by saying that Hbox somehow magically won it for me by telling me to play safe and stay calm.

Also, phish it wasn't the one complaining which is where Hungrybox telling me to stay calm and play safe helped. The other match was against a Marth that I could have beaten without anyone there anyways.

 

[CaptainCrunch]

I also wanted to mention, that coaching between macthes should be monitored. I know were all for the Apex rule set since its simple and to the point, however i come from the MLG days when coaching was limited and there were rules specifically for it. Theres a difference between friendly advice between matches and moral support during the macth itself versus someone holding your opponents hand and litterally telling him what to do while the macth is going on . Were not playing Super Smash Puppets Melee, when im playing someone i want to be playing that person not their puppeteer. I feel especially bad for ShadowHuan and Phis-it, who lost to HungryBox's puppet.

Play me and see how much of a puppet I am.

 

[Shadow Huan]

oh brother, no one read my posts. Sure it bothered me, but i'm not painting anyone as a villian. hbox and i both told the same exact story about how the coaching thing went with my set against the captian of crunch (hbox with a bit more detail):

that's what Hbox was doing while i was playing Cpt. Crunch as well. a boxer doesn't have his coach shouting out which punch to throw does he? (I don't think that would even be effective, considering the two guys are hitting eachother in the head during the round lol)... although i find the last part a little unfair to Hbox, to me he didn't seem like the type to purposely break the rules, esp when he was trying to help his friend (and getting him DQ'd for being coached isn't helping lol).

As for this, i asked Hbox to stop after round one (politely iirc) and he said he could 'cause it was Apex ruleset. I asked Gonzoales to go ask and he came back saying it was allowed.

In retrospect, Alex Strife is absolutely right, I should've gone with Gonzo to find out myself and explain the situation. I'll be sure to put my foot down next time, live and learn right? *shrugs*

Stop putting words in people's mouths. I coached Crunch round one, and the guy asked me to stop. I said that the tournament was following the Apex ruleset, where Seibrik did the exact same thing for me. He wanted to ask if it was allowed. If it wasn't allowed, of course I would have stopped. But it was in the rules. I didn't do anything wrong. Just wanted my best friend (primary reason i flew up here anyway) to succeed in tournament.

so for the record, after i was told it was allowed i sucked it up as much as i could and finished the set. Even if i disagree with the rule i'm not gonna stand in the way of it. I asked for him to stop because i have never been @ a tournament that allows coaching mid match. Everyone else can be upset about Phish-it if they wanna be, that didn't effect me and i didn't watch the set until the last stock.

ALSO! some guy asked Hbox to stop and Hbox said that it was APEX ruleset. Someone went to ask the TO and then came back and said it was allowed which is why Hbox continued. Because we were told it wasn't against the rules.

The other match was against a Marth that I could have beaten without anyone there anyways.

uhhhh lol the some guy and that marth player happen to be the same guy... Glad i left an impression -_-



so i'm dropping this now. I hope i won't have to reiterate myself again


EDIT: about the last part of the first quote, well in the context of what mr strife was saying it makes more snese lol

 

[KevinM]

No offense but Gonzo or Shadowjuan wouldn't really be able to touch CC anyways >_>.

 

[Max?]

Plus I was returning the favor for him being the only person to give a damn to actually find someone to pick me up from the airport. That was kind of ****ed up by the way. Doubt I'll go to another New York tournament if people are that reluctant to even pick up OOSers from the Airport. Like, that sucked. Being there for 4 extra hours.

If Hax or someone was at the MCO (Orlando International) airport before a tournament started, like hell would I leave him stranded there. Just saying, learn how to treat well people who travel a long way to come to No Johns.

Remember that time I went out of my way and left work 5 hours early to pick you up for some random No Johns two years ago? Sorry that it's ridiculously inconvenient for people who have lives to go out of their way to pick up someone for a video game tournament. Juan, you're my boy but you have to acknowledge that it's a lil ridiculous that you get mad about this. This isn't a national, or a regional or ANYTHING, it's a ****ing local and frankly Tristate is dead/lazy. If I didn't live 2+ hours away (without Traffic) and I didn't work 15 hour days on Saturdays and Sundays then I'd get you, but too bad that's completely unreasonable and I'm not bending over backwards for someone to come to a ****ing video game tournament.

 

[KevinM]

Also for what it's worth as far as most of us were concerned you had a ride to the tournament and we weren't told otherwise until we were already at the ****ing venue and had driven multiple hours to get there.

Keep that ego in check juangrybox.

 

[SwiftBass]

Remember that time I went out of my way and left work 5 hours early to pick you up for some random No Johns two years ago? Sorry that it's ridiculously inconvenient for people who have lives to go out of their way to pick up someone for a video game tournament. Juan, you're my boy but you have to acknowledge that it's a lil ridiculous that you get mad about this. This isn't a national, or a regional or ANYTHING, it's a ****ing local and frankly Tristate is dead/lazy. If I didn't live 2+ hours away (without Traffic) and I didn't work 15 hour days on Saturdays and Sundays then I'd get you, but too bad that's completely unreasonable and I'm not bending over backwards for someone to come to a ****ing video game tournament.

Max does make a point in a way. Most of the ny people dont have cars becaus they dont need cars from where they live so by association it will be hard to get a ride. I personally was hoping that hbox broke diesel off with some prize money or li,e bought himlunch or something because at the end of the day he was a trooper for driving from maine,getting to the venue the going back out to the airport. I think it was a great thing to do. I cant speak too much for nys ability to pick someone up but personally i wouldve secured a ride before going.

 

[phish-it]

Nothing against Captain Crunch but I do feel that if Hungrybox weren't there coaching him during each match of the set and for several minutes between each match I wouldn't have lost.

Whats done is done, but remember that coaching debate in melee discussion awhile back? It was in fact Hungrybox that started it, and while there were those in favor of it there was also alot of strong discussion opposing it (read any of Wobbles' Amsah's posts in that thread)


Cheering for your friend/person you want to win is one thing, but informing them of their mistakes/what they should do and it basically allows them to adapt faster than they would on their own.

It's singles, not teams not crews.

 

[Divinokage]

Coaching definitely makes a huge difference and it should be banned straight up. **** this!

 

[SwiftBass]

All is fair in love and war when not enforced.

 

[The Great Gonzales]

Coaching during matches should never be allowed, coaching between matches has been acceptable since MLG made rules for it in their tourneys. Its up to the TO's to make specific rules about the coaching that goes on in their tourneys. If there's no rules against coaching people during matches it will abused, it and its only a matter of time before you get ****ed by it

 

[Aber]

I'm just wondering why it's peoples responsibilities who had already driven multiple hours to get to the venue (As kevin said) to pick up someone at an airport forty minutes away who they had no prior obligation with. Really?

 

[SwiftBass]

Thtas the thing. There is no obligation. Dan is a great guy for doing that. I mean common sense says that you kind of have something in place if you are flying somewhere. Maybe hbox had a ride and they bailed or maybe someone said maybe.

Would i blame hbox for not flying here again? Not really cuz at the end of the day someone from maine had to get him and i do think that says alot. trying to be objective here and in that regard he has a right to be upset. Upset at the fact that no one from ny offered but. Bout waiting 4 hours or w.e.....nah (unless someone flaked).

 

[Aber]

Plus I was returning the favor for him being the only person to give a damn to actually find someone to pick me up from the airport. That was kind of ****ed up by the way. Doubt I'll go to another New York tournament if people are that reluctant to even pick up OOSers from the Airport. Like, that sucked. Being there for 4 extra hours.

what.......What????? This is totally irrelevant to the coaching issue, first of all.

Second of all, as I said it is no one's responsibility but whoever you arranged a ride with to pick you up. Like are you serious? Being pissed at people who had already driven hours and were at the venue already and had not arranged to pick you up or anything? How in the world is that anyone's responsibility other than Crunch/Maine ppl/whoever you planned to get a ride with? We get your a top level player with a huge ego and think everyone should drop everything they are doing and heed to your demands, but the fact is that waiting at the airport for 4 hours (wahh) is no one's fault but your own for lack of proper planning. It was EXTREMELY nice for deisel to come pick you up, he went far out of his way, so props to him, but don't bash people who didn't, it simply was not their responsibility.

 

[KevinM]

That's my son aber right there going hard

 

[Scar]

editing to less aggressively say:

i agree -- everyone is responsible for themselves, and expecting preferential treatment is really unreasonable. the biggest problem with top players and their expectations is that it is generally accepted by a good 50% of the community, which ends up hurting us more than anything.

 

[CaptainCrunch]

I think the bottom line is that the coaching issue is one that hasn't been properly addressed by the community since as far as I've seen in the standard rule set and apex ruleset, there was nothing for or against coaching. I think that if the community does not have rules regarding a particular action that people shoudn't be mad at the people involved in an action that had no ill intentions and they were not aware would cause issues. To be honest I got on this thread to give shoutouts to all the awesome people I played with and say that I was glad to go to the tourney and instead was met with widespread insults calling me a puppet and winning illegitimately. As it stands, I'll let it go, but I believe that all the emotions going around should be properly redirected to the issue at hand, which is WE NEED A RULE FOR THIS. Once a rule is established then if someone does break it we have a collective right to say that that action was wrong. However I don't think it's fair to insult and incriminate people for something that has no rule and the people involved had no ill intentions.

Also diesel is the man and is too good. <3

 

[SwiftBass]

editing to less aggressively say:

i agree -- everyone is responsible for themselves, and expecting preferential treatment is really unreasonable. the biggest problem with top players and their expectations is that it is generally accepted by a good 50% of the community, which ends up hurting us more than anything.

good post.

yeah I mean I feel for Hbox in a way because players that are super super popular and "cool" and "good" get that treatment that Hbox may have been expecting.(Not saying that HBOX isn't cool because I personally have lots of respect for him as a person and a smasher) I mean there is no doubt that he is like one of the best players(if not the best) in the world. I just can't shake the thought that if mango or PP were put in his situation that there would have been a warmer welcoming which kind of blows but hey these are social conventions that have been around much longer than super smash brothers melee for the Nintendo gamecube

 

[Alex Strife]

Pretty much. Do not blame Hbox for just helping a friend as best as he can. Just fix the rule going forward. You cannot retrocede the rule to enforce.

 

[CaptainCrunch]

As for the HungryBox thing, I understand his sadness because people weren't answering their phones and no one wanted to pick him up or even cared that he was stranded there. I felt that way too because it seemed honestly like no one cared if he was left stranded there anyways. The people who were supposed to pick him up didn't and it honestly felt that if I didn't find a way to pick him up that he would be left there, and I felt pretty desperate about trying to get someone to pick him up and got a lot of no's from people. Thankfully diesel being the awesome guy that he is decided to help. And to that both me and Hbox are extremely grateful, because he seemed like the only person besides me who cared.

 

[Max?]

Scar's post is great

Once again, a large amount of people in Tristate do not drive, or have cars. I wouldn't go out of my way to pick up Mango or PP or anyone for that matter for something like this. As for people ignoring your phone calls or "not caring", I say bull****. It's no one's responsibility but your own to arrange a ride from the airport, and expecting preferential treatment cause your good at a video game is sooooo beyond fake.

Frankly after a number of conversations I've had with some "top players" this week on AIM/FB/Smashboards, I'm sick of this scene. I'm about to pull a Prog and get the **** out of here

 

[prog]

I'm about to pull a Prog and get the **** out of here

many say prog went into hiding after his anti-American tirade. others say he joined up with a Mexican drug cartel, muling coke out of a recording setup. the final group point to the skies, and in the stars, they see one star that they can't stop looking at. that group needs to stop doing acid.

 

[LLDL]

lmfao! !

 

[Alex Strife]

so anyway we can fix those issues I mentioned? I do not want to get off-topic...if we do not fix some issues and address them why are we going to No Johns?

 

[twizzlerj]

i knew those were all just crazy rumors lol!

 

[CaptainCrunch]

Scar's post is great

Once again, a large amount of people in Tristate do not drive, or have cars. I wouldn't go out of my way to pick up Mango or PP or anyone for that matter for something like this. As for people ignoring your phone calls or "not caring", I say bull****. It's no one's responsibility but your own to arrange a ride from the airport, and expecting preferential treatment cause your good at a video game is sooooo beyond fake.

Frankly after a number of conversations I've had with some "top players" this week on AIM/FB/Smashboards, I'm sick of this scene. I'm about to pull a Prog and get the **** out of here

I don't think it's about being a good player at all. If I knew a smasher that was coming to an event in FL from NYC and I had a car and I knew they were stranded at the airport, it doesn't matter to me whether they are M2K or jo schmo who picked up the game last week. Especially if it was a smasher I'd met before and had spent time with, I'd take a little bit of time to go pick them up, especially if it cost me nothing financially to do so and they'd be willing to pay me.

HungryBox did arrange a ride, but that plan fell through as plans sometimes do.

It's not about HungryBox being a good player, it's about giving a damn about people who are a part of your community. That's what I've felt in the past differentiates smash from say a shooter community where no one gives a **** about you. We house each other, we know each other by name, and generally we give a crap if they are stranded. If you don't give a damn about other people then you do that, as for me, I actually care about the people I play smash with and wouldn't leave them stranded.


Naturally I place no blame on people if they don't drive or don't have cars, and I have sympathy for people who had driven for hours. The bottom line is someone did step up. I'm simply against the argument that we shouldn't care about other players.

 

[Alex Strife]

Let us stop complaining and start finding ways to fix this.

Easiest way? Just put in the rule.

Honestly, let us work on this now.

 

[hungrybox]

It's not about ego at all. I never said anything about high level players deserving special treatment. I just was frustrated that an original ride fell through.

I'm sad that a lot of you take me to be some haughty or egotistical person. I didn't mean to give that impression, nor do I support it in any sense.