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[Apr 19, 2014] No Johns Monthly! April 19th!! Project M ! (Nanuet, NY)
- Thread starter Alukard
- Start date
Cia
das kwl
we didn't have our tactical discussion yet.. LOL
but yeah, we'll just make it an AIM chat sometime :D
Peach all day
but yeah, we'll just make it an AIM chat sometime :D
Peach all day
LMFAOooo at my usmash making it look like i meant to do that ... also i have no idea about the bomb thing lol
but ref ... ummmm nothing i can say will prepare u for ur battle with melee lol
also theres NO tourney tmr i seriously hope everyone knows that lol
and i was thinking about going to cot4 to play with dj in brawl but its sooo much money to get there for us =[
but ref ... ummmm nothing i can say will prepare u for ur battle with melee lol
also theres NO tourney tmr i seriously hope everyone knows that lol
and i was thinking about going to cot4 to play with dj in brawl but its sooo much money to get there for us =[
blast_ssbb
Smash Ace
LOL quoted in the name of all the dead firebirds
otg
Smash Master
I would like to believe that mid tier characters have a chance in a competitive atmosphere, but they really don't. The price of playing a "good" character in comparison to a "amazing" character is too large in this game to ONLY main a mid tier. Fact of the matter is a secondary top/high tier is 100% necessary to have a legitimate chance of competing, especially against the mofo's who go to No Johnz, BEAST COAST.
JFox
Smash Hero
I disagree. I think that if you have enough legit mid tiers, you can beat top tiers. With top tiers, the beauty is they have few bad matchups, so you only really need one character. But with mid tiers, they have bad matchups, so u need a few of them to do well.
For example- DK & Samus. DK handles the marth and Sheik. Samus handles spacies.
Link & Doc- Doc handles sheik and Fox. Link handles falco and marth.
Sometimes you may even need a third character to help you here and there, but for the most part a two part mid tier line up can work if you're good enough. The thing is you need to have really good mid tiers, otherwise the competition beats u. and you can't just focus on one, its gotta be on a few. This is hard to do, which is why you see most people just pick up a top tier and run with it.
For example- DK & Samus. DK handles the marth and Sheik. Samus handles spacies.
Link & Doc- Doc handles sheik and Fox. Link handles falco and marth.
Sometimes you may even need a third character to help you here and there, but for the most part a two part mid tier line up can work if you're good enough. The thing is you need to have really good mid tiers, otherwise the competition beats u. and you can't just focus on one, its gotta be on a few. This is hard to do, which is why you see most people just pick up a top tier and run with it.
otg
Smash Master
I def agree that the midtier player has to be really good to compete, no argument there but certain matchups you have listed are wrong. It's funny that you mentioned both Doc and DK, because I was thinking about running with both of them for awhile. Sheik is one of Doc and DK's hardest matchups. Sheik sadly seems to be one of the bigger obstacles for most mid/low tiers to overcome. No johnz, just hypothetical discussion.
Besides that I agree with everything you said.
Besides that I agree with everything you said.
Cia
das kwl
LOLOLOL!!!! what are you talking about?!?! Marth/ Sheik v DK is like 7/3 <_< so is Marth/ Falco v Link. Doc v sheik is like 4/6 and so is samus v Fox. samus v falco MIGHT be 3/7.
Cia
das kwl
wanna money match my fox w/ you're samus??
If I can be Treble for this MM surewanna money match my fox w/ you're samus??
Cia
das kwl
LOL. treble makes spacies look like bad characters. Thus, my decision is to say "NO, you can not be treble"If I can be Treble for this MM sure
there are a lot of people who would beg to differ with your numbers -_-'LOLOLOL!!!! what are you talking about?!?! Marth/ Sheik v DK is like 7/3 <_< so is Marth/ Falco v Link. Doc v sheik is like 4/6 and so is samus v Fox. samus v falco MIGHT be 3/7.
Cia
das kwl
like who?? and for what match ups?? i'd really like to know.
otg
Smash Master
DK vs. Marth might be a lil closer, something like 4/6 marth? DK's hardest matchups IMO are Falco and Sheik. Don't know anything about Link's matchups. Sheik v. Doc is probably 6/4 in Sheiks' favor. Doc might have a somewhat deadly CG on Sheik, but good luck grabbing a good one, and even if you do it's only guaranteed til 50 or so maybe a lil higher and with limited follow ups. I thought that Samus' did well against Spacies as well, unless I'm reading your numbers backwards.LOLOLOL!!!! what are you talking about?!?! Marth/ Sheik v DK is like 7/3 <_< so is Marth/ Falco v Link. Doc v sheik is like 4/6 and so is samus v Fox. samus v falco MIGHT be 3/7.
Cia
das kwl
well.. our numbers for sheik numbers for sheik v doc were exactly the same as for marth v DK, you COULD be right. but even with good DI, dk can be ken combo'd at mid percentages. marth edge guards DK better than sheik (virtually no risk of being hit by DK's up+B) marth just pokes Dk's awful sheild too well.
while on the other hand, DK has cargo grab combos, but they do like 25ish damage.. and DK doesn't get grabs so easily (except bum) DK's punch ***** everything. and If the marth for some reason attacks DK from directly above, Up+B elbow *****.
it could be a 6-4 i suppose.. but idk. any marths that know that match up have no trouble with DK.
edit: samus does NOT **** "good" spacies.
while on the other hand, DK has cargo grab combos, but they do like 25ish damage.. and DK doesn't get grabs so easily (except bum) DK's punch ***** everything. and If the marth for some reason attacks DK from directly above, Up+B elbow *****.
it could be a 6-4 i suppose.. but idk. any marths that know that match up have no trouble with DK.
edit: samus does NOT **** "good" spacies.
gkrackerr
Smash Ace
falco boards disagree vanz (or at least time I checked)
lambchops was talking about how falco vs samus was at least even, if not somewhat in favor of samus
lambchops was talking about how falco vs samus was at least even, if not somewhat in favor of samus
Eggm
Smash Hero
First time i've ever agreed with chops then.
Cia
das kwl
How?? how does samus even appoach falco.
a lot of times, you have to know the match for yourself. there are a lot of people who main "character x" and will say that "character x" loses to "character y" just so that have an excuse for ever losing to "character y."
it's the same thing as marth mains saying that Young Link/ Link beats marth.
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i'm really not in the mood to get into a match up war. i will finish by saying top tiers are top tiers for a reason. if mid or low tiers did beat them, they wouldn't be considered top tiers.
a lot of times, you have to know the match for yourself. there are a lot of people who main "character x" and will say that "character x" loses to "character y" just so that have an excuse for ever losing to "character y."
it's the same thing as marth mains saying that Young Link/ Link beats marth.
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i'm really not in the mood to get into a match up war. i will finish by saying top tiers are top tiers for a reason. if mid or low tiers did beat them, they wouldn't be considered top tiers.
falco boards isn't the smartest place to go -_-'
but yes, Spacies vs. Samus are close to even, in spacy's favor if they're a campy spacy, in samus's if they're an aggressive spacy. DK vs. Sheik isn't suppose to be that bad, maybe 60-40 in Sheik's Favor, Falco is way worse than everyone else for DK from what I've heard. I think most Dk's think vs. Marth is only a sligtht disadvantage as well. Link vs. Marth is supposed to be really close. Link vs. Falco is pretty *** unless the Link is Skler and the Falco is someone who doesn't know how to fight nair (i.e. me).
but yes, Spacies vs. Samus are close to even, in spacy's favor if they're a campy spacy, in samus's if they're an aggressive spacy. DK vs. Sheik isn't suppose to be that bad, maybe 60-40 in Sheik's Favor, Falco is way worse than everyone else for DK from what I've heard. I think most Dk's think vs. Marth is only a sligtht disadvantage as well. Link vs. Marth is supposed to be really close. Link vs. Falco is pretty *** unless the Link is Skler and the Falco is someone who doesn't know how to fight nair (i.e. me).
WD around in Shield a lot and then ftilt when you the spacing is right. HugS just knocks you down with ftilt and then ***** you
McFox's browser is lame.
Eggm
Smash Hero
Falco can't approach samus either lol.
But falco can go pew pew and spin his feet
P.c. Chris
Smash Lord
Falco doesn't have auto combos out of grab though 
or needles to pop those bombs.
or needles to pop those bombs.LMAOwanna money match my fox w/ you're samus??
i would. but i KNOW i'll lose. =/
just tell me when is the next one and ill try to come.
last time i played melee was in....Aug?
dang....ill still do it
*throws away money*
But but but...Falco doesn't have auto combos out of grab though
Sheik is a ninja. Whats a ninja that can't auto combo out of grabs?
Cia
das kwl
P.c. Chris
Smash Lord
LOL well i wasn't joking, but tried to sound funny i guess. i think samus gives fox and falco trouble i wouldn't say its a counter or anything obviously. Just one of the few characters fox doesn't **** .
he can, he can.But falco can go pew pew and spin his feet
Cia
das kwl
oh that's fine. what about the needle - bomb thing? T_T
P.c. Chris
Smash Lord
the needles mess up her recovery or at least make it way harder.
I personally rather go marth vs samus.....
Marth feels like he became the bane of her existence LOL.
Marth feels like he became the bane of her existence LOL.
Cia
das kwl
ohhh. well.. falco just has gay lazers. and he should never really "need" to edge guard samus. Dair > Dair. Dair > Shine. Dtilt. (i know you know these things, it's for others to see)
i think the match is at 6-4 spacies favor. but i think samus has a harder time with falco. and this originally started because Jfacksch said "mid tiers beat top tiers" which is just not true.
Laijin
Smash Hero
I will back up Vanz and tell you guys that Young Link has a much easier time with Marth than all the other high tiers. Falco comes second cause he is beyond easy to kill and gimp, then Fox and Sheik.How?? how does samus even appoach falco.
a lot of times, you have to know the match for yourself. there are a lot of people who main "character x" and will say that "character x" loses to "character y" just so that have an excuse for ever losing to "character y."
it's the same thing as marth mains saying that Young Link/ Link beats marth.
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i'm really not in the mood to get into a match up war. i will finish by saying top tiers are top tiers for a reason. if mid or low tiers did beat them, they wouldn't be considered top tiers.
JFox
Smash Hero
I didn't say that midtiers beat top tiers LOL. I said that if you have enough mid tiers, you can go even (or close enough to even) that you really dont have any legit johns about losing. the problem is having enough good mid tiers.
Samus is at a small disadvantage vs fox, but its definitely still winnable.
Samus is very good vs Falco. Talk to eggm, a player with a lot of experience at the matchup. talk to Hugs, the man that swears samus cannot lose to falco if the samus is patient enough. Oh and about the approach- WD OOS to ftilt, or get on a platform fall off missle cancel. Punish punish punish.
I dunno why you think you are such an expert at the samus vs spacies matchup that you have this elitist attitude towards everyone. Its not like you are speaking from a professional Samus background or somethin, you're just like anyone else. LOL
Samus is at a small disadvantage vs fox, but its definitely still winnable.
Samus is very good vs Falco. Talk to eggm, a player with a lot of experience at the matchup. talk to Hugs, the man that swears samus cannot lose to falco if the samus is patient enough. Oh and about the approach- WD OOS to ftilt, or get on a platform fall off missle cancel. Punish punish punish.
I dunno why you think you are such an expert at the samus vs spacies matchup that you have this elitist attitude towards everyone. Its not like you are speaking from a professional Samus background or somethin, you're just like anyone else. LOL
Cia
das kwl
i don't think it's elitist attitude to say that mid tiers don't beat high tiers. and if look at my last couple of posts i said that i think the match up might be 6-4. spacies favor..
and WD OOS > Ftilt gets CC'd until ?? some high percentage. and if that was all it took, then wouldn't samus be much more crucial to the metagame??
JFox
Smash Hero
I don't get the CC comment, honestly. Falco CC the samus ftilt? How would that really help falco with the amount of spacing samus has? And most of the time Falcos are gonna be in there next sh ready to shoot a laser, not sitting there in a CC position.
As for the Samus being a big hit in the metagame- People aren't really having that much trouble beating Falcos with other characters last time i checked, so its not like people are gonna pick up samus just to beat on falco. And Samus takes being intelligent instead of just shffl'ing all over the place, making her a not so popular character. She is pretty unique so it makes her a bit tough to pick up just for a one and done matchup.
As for the Samus being a big hit in the metagame- People aren't really having that much trouble beating Falcos with other characters last time i checked, so its not like people are gonna pick up samus just to beat on falco. And Samus takes being intelligent instead of just shffl'ing all over the place, making her a not so popular character. She is pretty unique so it makes her a bit tough to pick up just for a one and done matchup.
Heart Break Kid
Smash Lord
Lets just all use Marth from now on, hes pretty good
Lets just all use Kirby from now on, I heard his shoes are pretty awesome.
Laijin
Smash Hero
Lets just all use Falcon from now on, I herd he likes mudkips.