Apex Legends Mafia: Boosted GAME OVER Who won?

[BoomFrog]

o7

Today is going to be interesting. If there's a SK it's Frozen or Red. Maaaaybe Maven but Maven's tone has been sincere townie.

 

[BoomFrog]

anti town made some very smart NK calls dodging the tempo call by seemingly not going for vicarin, need to do some more re-reading

Can you explain what you mean by this?

 

[Vicarin]

Frozen, Red and Maven definitely have claimed abilities that would match up best with a SK.

 

[fontisian]

Possible the Xivii kill was a delayed thing for N1.

 

[fontisian]

*from N1. Because of the "bled out" flavor, reminds me a bit of poisoned targets flavor.

I'm going to be chill for the start of the phase while I reread.

Eido, if you have anything important from Ryker make sure you get it out before the end of the phase.

 

[Eido]

Today is going to be interesting. If there's a SK it's Frozen or Red. Maaaaybe Maven but Maven's tone has been sincere townie.

Who's the Mafia? I'll give you $5 if you cough up the info. Negotiable

 

[Eido]

I'll be aiming to reread this thread tonight. I don't want myself/Mala to kick off any conversations yet.

It would be good if people started sharing their list of reads and why.

Can we assume the top kill is Mafia and the other is a serial killer?

 

[Malakandra]

I agree with Fonti a poisoner is likely here.

I think thats a safe bet.

Ryker was killed for the mason claim and Xivii was killed because he is Xivii is my best guess.

 

[Malakandra]

It's also possible there is no SK so I don't think we should get lost in that. It could be something like sumting where scum have in this case an even night Vigilante.

 

[Trisscar]

Thoughts so far, no I still have not read the thread from before I joined, I had other things that took priority and still do to some degree.

1. Wam - Dead, Town Jailer
2. FrozenFlame
3. Xivii - Dead, Town Gunsmith
4. Eido - Town Mason
5. Vicarin
6. Sabrar==UtopianPoyzin==Trisscar - Town Double Voter
7. Bessie - Dead, Mafia Watcher
8. Ryker - Dead, Town Mason
9. Red Ryu
10. LaserGuy - Dead, Town Tracker
11. Somitomi==BoomFrog
12. Fontisian
13. Malakandra - Town IC
14. Maven89

Remaining:

FrozenFlame
Vicarin
Red Ryu
Boomfrog
Fontisian
Maven89

14 players, 1-? mafia, 0-? 3p
4 dead town, 1 dead mafia, assuming no disguiser

Ryu shot bessie, bus or town
Fonti wanted to keep Bessie around for master planz, mafia or too exicted
Maven almost does not exist
Boom is reaching out to others
Vicarin is considered susp
Frozen wanted to kill Bessie, bus or town

 

[Chaco]

Maven will be prodded again.

 

[Vicarin]

Trisscar, what was up with the hammer yesterday? Did you mean to do it?

 

[Vicarin]

Oh yeah, I'd also like a detailed description of exactly how Red Ryu's ability works, because I'm not entirely clear on the details.

 

[Trisscar]

Trisscar, what was up with the hammer yesterday? Did you mean to do it?

I did not. I was rushing and did not have time to go count things up myself. Admittedly I should have asked where we were and if it was safe, but it didn't seem like i had time. Apologies.

 

[Vicarin]

I just feel like a town double voter would have been really careful about voting there. You could have been voted on someone irrelevant and then immediately switched to wam if you didn't want to count double.

 

[Trisscar]

Fair, but that did not occur to me at the time either, and theoretically I'd want to keep the double vote if mafia stood a chance of avoiding the lynch by one vote.

 

[Vicarin]

I feel like I'm not sure if you can be trusted with the double vote after that...

 

[Malakandra]

what are we gonna do, vanillaize her?

 

[Trisscar]

I mean I can just not vote unless Malak tells me to if that helps, though tbh I was mostly sheeping Xivii that time.

 

[Vicarin]

Can have Trisscar vote on someone that will certainly not be getting executed, and then unvote from them. That sticks the vote somewhere where it won't do any harm at least.

 

[Vicarin]

Or they could do the night visit action that they claim removes their double vote, so yes, they can get vanillarized apparently.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

BoomFrog Where is your head at and where are you looking?

Vicarin You think Trisscar is scum based on posts or just the role? You thinking this is more worrysome if we consider 2 mafia and 1 serial killer being a possible outcome?

My power is that during the night I deploy my totem, if a lethal action targets me the totem will break and I will not die. I confirmed with Chaco that the shadow parts he mentions are not relevant and just flavor. It just protects me from lethal actions but I need to actively use it each night.

 

[Malakandra]

Why would you ever not deploy your totem? Can you give it to someone else as a 1 shot protection?

 

[Eido]

Vote: boomfrog

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Why would you ever not deploy your totem? Can you give it to someone else as a 1 shot protection?

Nope, I was told nothing about this if I can give it to someone else, I suspected a thief might be possible but I need to choose to deploy it and xivii can hand out guns but otherwise idk why it is worded like this for me to do this.

 

[Vicarin]

I think Trisscar is mostly scummy because of their behaviour. I think a double voter with the restriction that the second vote can't move could be either alignment, so I'm not reading too much into their ability. If there are 2 Mafia and an SK alive, then yeah, having a scum double voter be one of them would be pretty atrocious for town, so I am worrying about that possibility.

That claimed totem ability just doesn't make any sense.

 

[Trisscar]

No it makes sense, it avoids a potential logic issue where if it's stolen, the player just keeps the ability cause they already placed it, while letting it be something that can be stolen in the first place.

 

[Trisscar]

Vicarin also I find it kind of odd that you want to just nerf the thing, and not simply have me vote first.

 

[Vicarin]

Because I don't trust you to use your vote in a way that's good for town at this point?

 

[Trisscar]

............. Given that i voted the wagon that was likely to "win" no matter what, I find that to be a weird way to think about it.
However, I'm going to wait till people are awake and online to try to discuss it.

 

[BoomFrog]

I think Fonti is almost certainly mafia and I'm just trying to figure out who their partner is. I think it's probably not Sabtrissian, Fonti was too willing to cast shade on them yesterDay. She's been hard defending Maven and Vic.

If the second kill was a delayed Mafia kill then scum Vic is back on the table. But I think it's more likely to be a SK or even night bonus kill. A bonus kill makes the most sense since town is so stacked, which means we have less time and tempo then we estimated. But that still leaves us with the N1 being truly blocked, so most likely Vic is still town.

I'll need to reread Maven to confirm. I've felt they were townie but I need to filter out how much of that was just Fonti reiterating that they are town. If it's not Maven then it's just Tripoybar. (Sounds like a soy based power bar)

 

[Trisscar]

Hey now soy based power bar could be delicious.

 

[BoomFrog]

BoomFrog Where is your head at and where are you looking?

I think anyone paying attention will be looking at me and Fonti today. I'm curious to see who is inclined to side one way or the other. I'm very curious to see if Fonti can persuade me that I'm wrong or persuade others that I'm scum.

Malakandra and Eido I think you should keep your opinions close to your chest so scum don't know which way the wind is blowing.

 

[BoomFrog]

I'd really like to get Maven89 in here since we will need to sort him soon and his input now would be valuable.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Maven's "this is dumb" thing when Bessie was getting running up was town

why?

Vicarin The type of kill is relevant to the method of kill. Example would be downs from lynches and Bessie getting killed by a Kraber from vig shot.

I think this suggests that the kill on xivii was from a non-mafia source. some kind of modified SK or SK equivalent seems most likely to me, something like a poisoner (kill target dies one night phase after targetting victim) or a killing indy that can only kill on even nights, something like that. Not ruling out a scum "strongman" kill or some other extra one shot kill that may have been floating, but given the number of claimed protectives I think it makes sense that we're up against a 3 man scum team plus a killing indy

Can you explain what you mean by this?

our old tempo chain was as follows: mala is clear and at the time we had jailer wam and vicarins claimed vanillize life link thing. Per vic, and partially confirmed by mala, vic targetted mala and vanillized him stripping him of his abilities (which is extremely strong given that mala doesnt lose anything being vanillized as his power is already "spent" at D1 start when he is modcleared), mala confirms for us (has no reason to lie as mod confirmed town) that he was in fact vanillized. Vic then additionally claims that be vanillizing mala, he also perma protected mala via life link, i.e. while Vic remains alive, mala cannot die.

Given this gamestate, while wam and vic are alive and assuming they are both town, wam should be perma jailing vic to protect mala's only vulnerability as a mod cleared townie. So in order to get to mala, scum would have to kill wam, then kill vic, and THEN kill mala once those two protectives are dealt with. That's a **** ton of tempo the town has ahead of the scym if the scum want to deal with what will develop into an unassailable town voting block as the game thins out.

Luckily for scum, we ****ed up and misyeeted wam giving them an entire night of tempo back. This leaves vic as the only person standing in the way of them killing mala assuming vics claims of perma protecting mala is true (we have to remember that mala ONLY confirmed he was vanillized, he DID NOT get confirmation of being perma protected via vic lifelink, only vic has claimed this and it remains unconfirmed). And I think it's a fair assumption that mafia has a direct and urgent incentive to deal with town clears, rykers death being a perfect example.

So when I say mafia didn't go for the "tempo call," I mean that I find it strange that vic isn't dead. According to vic, he has to go before mala goes. So why no vic kill? Ryker kill I can understand because he was also mostly clear due to eido confirming his claim as mason partner, but still he wasn't hard cleared until he or eido flipped. Killing ryker does in a sense "kill a clear" but it also shores up eido as a clear so it's almost a wash except for the fact that I think most of the townies this game were on board with treating ryker and eido as cleared anyway. Killing vic would've made mala vulnerable AND wouldn't have given town any more info to work with. I find it very interesting that the call was made to kill ryker over vic by scum, assuming I'm correct in assuming the "blown up" flavor is the mafia and the "bleed out" flavor is the killing indy.

So yeah, basically my takeaway from all this is it cast doubt imo on the legitimacy of vic's claim. I'm beginning to suspect that vic is actually a scum vanillizer and just made up the life link part. It's easy enough to fake as long as mala doesn't die and if he's scum all he has to do is just tell his mates not to shoot mala so he doesn't get revealed as lying. At the time of vics claim, there was no other killing role claimed NOR did we have any indication that other killing roles existed, so he could have added that fake claiming thinking that his team was in control of all killing action and thus his lie would not be revealed outside of mafia choice to do so

I'm still not really sure if this is what's going on, but the fact that scum don't seem concerned about mala continuing to be in the game despite vic's claim re: mala has me very uneasy

My power is that during the night I deploy my totem, if a lethal action targets me the totem will break and I will not die. I confirmed with Chaco that the shadow parts he mentions are not relevant and just flavor. It just protects me from lethal actions but I need to actively use it each night.

bro this is just straight up suss af. First, giving you a choice to deploy the totem makes zero sense given what we know of the mechanics of this game so far, it seems like a meaningless choice because there would be no reason for you to even not deploy it unless there was some other drawback/risk to deploying it. Also, this power description still does not really square with what the traditional "hider" role archetype does which really bothers me as every else claimed archetype has checked out

triss cannot make it to endgame as a claimed double voter who "accidentally" hammered, plus as I've been saying repeatedly I think UP's play was scum leaning

I think there's a scum between fonti and boom but not both of them, hoping my full re-read helps me with that determination

maven's been coasting all game and has an anti-town power and was putting up mild resistance to the bessie wagon swap EoD1

going to try to find time today to review ryker xiviis and wams takes and pick up where they left off, I think it's pretty obvious that scum did not like where the towncore lead by ryker and xivii was going so there's probably a bingo that was in their sights

 

[Chaco]

Maven will receive another prod in a few hours and it will be his last if he doesn’t respond to it. I’ll be seeking another replacement.

 

[Malakandra]

Malakandra Malakandra and Eido Eido I think you should keep your opinions close to your chest so scum don't know which way the wind is blowing.

gotcha.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I’ll try to get to this game tonight when I got time, if I got it.

but my general question is why do I feel like people are trying to focus much of the role in terms of lynching over play when it comes to Trisscar.

i don’t remember thinking UP was scummy and Triss has been ok. Someone got a refresher on why they dislike the slot?

wish I had more on maven since I feel memory holed there.

I got a role dispute with FF but I do not think his play has matched being scummy. Same with me being busy so I get the fewer posts.

I think I need to push my own reread a bit around what happened during the bessie shot so what were the top 3 around it.

 

[fontisian]

I think my issue with Trisscar is that she seems super disconnected from everything? Like, she made that list, but her assessments were off. She wasn't paying close attention when she hammered, and there hasn't be any point where she's like been trying to get into the weeds? Like, when she was looking at my plan Yesterday, she was just like "this is overly complicated" and didn't try to figure it out, or improve it, or figure out what it meant about my alignment. She's very surface level.

I've seen her as a wolf once before, in a game on MU, and got same nebulous disconnected feel from her play there. I haven't seen it in her town game.

 

[fontisian]

I think my issue with Trisscar is that she seems super disconnected from everything? Like, she made that list, but her assessments were off. She wasn't paying close attention when she hammered, and there hasn't be any point where she's like been trying to get into the weeds? Like, when she was looking at my plan Yesterday, she was just like "this is overly complicated" and didn't try to figure it out, or improve it, or figure out what it meant about my alignment. She's very surface level.

I've seen her as a wolf once before, in a game on MU, and got same nebulous disconnected feel from her play there. I haven't seen it in her town game.

*In a game on MTGS.