Apex 2012 Ruleset Discussion

[TheReflexWonder]

No Pictochat makes me really sad. Nowhere to take Meta Knight now.

 

[Player-1]

Go rainbow cruise obv.

Diddy <3 this stage list since we don't have to ban stages like brinstar and can save our ban for stages like FD and just play on RC the whole time =D

 

[Pierce7d]

Picto is awful. I'm not going to argue it, just throwing my own (godlike) opinion out there.

 

[Blacknight99923]

this stage list in my honest opinion is very close to what I consider to be the most competitive.

However I consider several stage lists (all fairly conservative) to be very competitive.


As a US player, and a lover of brinstar, I absolutely support banning questionable stages in support of bringing in international players. I could care less about philosophy if it meant the chance to play people like RAIN brood Leon MR R Gluttony ect.

Could you imagine how hype

M2K
Ally
DEHF
Tyrant
TKD
ADHD
ANTI
SEIBRIK
ESAM
GNES
RAZER
MIKEHAZE
NAIRO
ATOMSK
LAIN
HAVOK
RICH BROWN
LEON
MR R
ORION
RAIN
BROOD
KAKERA
NAGAHARI
SWEAT PEA
EARTH
NEITONO
9B
CONEY
FATAL


would be+30 something more top players I probably missed(please take no offense if I missed you )?

just thinking about it


**** MLG and its cash ^ THIS IS THE PINNACLE OF SMASH

 

[MintyFlesh]

Imo the majority of people wanting ps2 off is a legit reason to have it off LOL

 

[Player-1]

yup, competitiveness comes from the amount of people that actually want/don't want it, if the majority of the people want something then it becomes competitive.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Umm I have a compromise for BPC and all those upset with stage bans and Metaknight

With Brawl+ dead, I feel that Brawl Minus should be given as much attention as Project:M, and more attention than Smash 64 as a side event. BPC is the leader behind the project, and he could easily craft the appropriate ruleset for this event.

... Sorry Alex, but I hope you can understand why I'm coming back to the topic after being linked to this.

Shut up, Slashy. Seriously, this is just ******** fanboyism. A compromise is usually a middle ground. This is akin to suggesting SF4 as an alternative. You just look stupid. Like you do in... virtually every case you open your mouth about Brawl-. Please, I get it. You like Brawl-. But this is just getting ********.

Now, I do recommend at least one or two setups having brawl- (if we don't have 2.0 out publicly by then I'm going to murder someone) but there's simply not enough interest for a tournament. Unfortunately, Brawl- simply has not caught much attention from the tournament scene (it's highly competitive, well-balanced, and the latest version ditches all of the "one-trick ponies" who relied entirely on spamming one or two moves and boosts some of the "lamer" characters, so it'll be the best ever–I don't see why people don't care; but meh). From my experience, most opposition to it does come from people who have never tried it (at least in my area; nobody cared about it when the tournament started but by the end I had some of the best melee players in austria and most of the people at the smashfest enjoying the game to their fullest); just let Xyless or whoever else from the Brawl- team is going to APEX set up a Brawl- TV or two and leave it at that.

 

[Gea]

While I am not really agreeing with the ruleset presented, I'd like to give props to Alex for doing what he thinks is correct and sticking with it. Don't let the whining get through to you, just do what you do and give us a hell of a tournament.

 

[1048576]

Why not give everybody 2 bans?

Also, +1 to everything BPC has said. I really hate willful ignorance and stupidity. I guess the game and the community deserve each other.

 

[Kaffei]

Why not give everybody 2 bans?

Also, +1 to everything BPC has said. I really hate willful ignorance and stupidity. I guess the game and the community deserve each other.

As if 1 upping BPC and -1ing us is helping..

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Imo the majority of people wanting ps2 off is a legit reason to have it off LOL

Does a majority actually want it off?

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Does a majority actually want it off?

Legitimate question!

Also, this somehow just came to me and I really can't shake it, so I feel it's worth posting.

6:54:17 AM Axel Strife: conservative rulesets happened in melee and will happen in brawl its just something that happens

Sure thing, it just happens. Now tell me. What would you pinpoint as the cause? Is it that most people don't like "liberal" (read: more than 6 stages) stagelists? Is it because conservative stagelists are simply more competitive? Or is it because most of the most influential TOs in the most important regions are absolute conservatives? The first is usually not the case until you go up to a ridiculous level, the second is demonstrably false... You know what? I think it's kind of dishonest to claim that "it just happens" when you're instrumental in it happening. Same as it would be if, say, Inui made that claim. It does not "just happen". You make it happen.

EDIT: Also, that's why I keep on getting your name wrong-easy mixup+it's on your chat client.

 

[EPsilon933]

Smashvile for life!

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm serious about that question, it seems more like Alex saying it's off over people wanting it off.

Everything is legal before you ban it, and when you do, you need a reason for it, a legit reason. The only subjective reason I accept for wanting something not proven banable gone is if a clear majority wants the stage gone.

And I haven't seen anyone really prove that people legitimately strongly want the stage gone, even Brinstar has more support to be banned over PS2.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I'm serious about that question, it seems more like Alex saying it's off over people wanting it off.

No kidding. My observation is that there are three sides here who are more than "indifferent":
-Me/you/the other stage discussion guys in favor of the stage
-Alex against the stage
-The people who dislike this kind of discussion in favor of us shutting up.

 

[Malcolm.O]

Should add Picto to CP List.

Other Then that i like the stage list and we finally do not have to deal with Both Brinstar and RC

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Should add Picto to CP List.

Now this I guarantee will drive away the international audience. Germany views Pictochat on the same level as Warioware, and not without reason... Nobody here seen the vid of the falco sideBing to the ledge only to get caught by the diagonal line that spawned during his sideB? Or ZamZ CGing his way across the random transformations? Or that GFs match where a diddy got gimped by the diagonal line? Seriously, I support the decision to remove Picto; that stage is ********.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Why would Falco try and sweetspot the ledge if he knows line might pops there?
Zamz's video is a terrible example, but anyways, from beginning you're supposed to know Picto is a very good stage for DDD.... :/

Really, knowledge and awareness works almost like magic in Picto.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Why would Falco try and sweetspot the ledge if he knows line might pops there?
Zamz's video is a terrible example, but anyways, from beginning you're supposed to know Picto is a very good stage for DDD.... :/

Really, knowledge and awareness works almost like magic in Picto.

It will pop up for less than 15 second I beleive, can you except players to remember this for an 8 minute match all the time and always work on avoiding it when they have no clue if it will pop up?

Oddly enough this actually affect a lot more matches than even I realized at first, nothing about legality but that line has ticked people off. :/

 

[ぱみゅ]

It will pop up for less than 15 second I beleive, can you except players to remember this for an 8 minute match all the time and always work on avoiding it when they have no clue if it will pop up?

-It is dangerous just for one second while it is being drawn.
-It will appear ONCE during the whole battle (there's even the chance that it might nor even appear).
-Is just about remembeing when it has NOT appeared.
-I do. =P

Oddly enough this actually affect a lot more matches than even I realized at first, nothing about legality but that line has ticked people off. :/

Because people use to not be awared of stage behavior, they just run straight/away form the opponent, but never pay attention to the stage.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Kyo, don't even bother arguing about it. Even if this stage did not have such issues, I can guarantee that a fairly large portion of the internationals would cancel their plans to come to APEX because of the stage. And at that point, it's not even questionable-when a rule would severely harm attendance at your tournament, then it's a bad idea.

...Unlike PS2.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Everybody who plays me in or out of tournament may request to play all games of our set on either Smashvile or Battlefield. I guarantee my approval.

 

[Malcolm.O]

Kyo, don't even bother arguing about it. Even if this stage did not have such issues, I can guarantee that a fairly large portion of the internationals would cancel their plans to come to APEX because of the stage. And at that point, it's not even questionable-when a rule would severely harm attendance at your tournament, then it's a bad idea.

No It would not
No International guess would do that
"Oh PictoChat, Yeah Im so not going"

If anything this will be attracting more people since There is only Rc and not the dynamic duo(Rc+Brinstar)

 

[Angbad]

Nothing is wrong with Picto.

 

[Keitaro]

Kyo, don't even bother arguing about it. Even if this stage did not have such issues, I can guarantee that a fairly large portion of the internationals would cancel their plans to come to APEX because of the stage. And at that point, it's not even questionable-when a rule would severely harm attendance at your tournament, then it's a bad idea.

...Unlike PS2.

Thats silly. I highly doubt nearly any international player that truly wanted to come to Apex would cancel because of one stage.

 

[DE_Desti]

that stageselection is fine for me
great choice!

 

[Blacknight99923]

everytime I play on picto chat and watch people play....


I see more and more reasons why it should be banned

 

[Supreme Dirt]

FTR, anyone who plays me in brackets/pools, I will play on any banned stage provided you 1) inform me of character choice and 2) it doesn't make the match one-sided.

Seriously, let's have some tourney matches on 75m.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

>75m
>Doesn't make matchups one-sided


Assuming I show up, that offer applies to any stage in BBR 3.0 that is banned here other than Pictochat. :V

 

[Supreme Dirt]

>75m
>Doesn't make matchups one-sided


Assuming I show up, that offer applies to any stage in BBR 3.0 that is banned here other than Pictochat. :V

BPC.

If you show, $5 MM bo5 banned stages only (minus Picto) vs. my Game and Watch? Go ahead and take any stages out of the banned stages, or even make your own stagelist for it. I'll pretty much agree to any stagelist provided it's not Flat+Plat only.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Stages that are banned from APEX but legal in the BBR list. IF I show. Which is fairly questionable. I'd have to pay my own way, which is a hell of a lot of money.

...I'd also add Onett and RF to that list if you want.

 

[Mister Eric]

needs moar picto<3

 

[lordhelmet]

This is the best stage list ever.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Stages that are banned from APEX but legal in the BBR list. IF I show. Which is fairly questionable. I'd have to pay my own way, which is a hell of a lot of money.

...I'd also add Onett and RF to that list if you want.

...I'd also add Onett and RF to that list if you want.

Onett and RF

RUMBLE FALLS

HELLZ YEAH. You better show.

 

[Lord Chair]

Seriously BPC, this is where you have to shut up.

No offense, but you're being a huge ***** about nothing right now.

 

[Blacknight99923]

BPC.

If you show, $5 MM bo5 banned stages only (minus Picto) vs. my Game and Watch? Go ahead and take any stages out of the banned stages, or even make your own stagelist for it. I'll pretty much agree to any stagelist provided it's not Flat+Plat only.

record the set

 

[King Funk]

Apex 2012 thread should have a sticky even if it doesn't follow the BBR-RC ruleset.

It is quite disgusting to want to force tournament organizers to do what a bunch of people on a forum say.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Seriously BPC, this is where you have to shut up.

No offense, but you're being a huge ***** about nothing right now.

Old news is really old.

@King Funk: you really think it's going to make a difference? FFS, it's APEX.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Apex 2012 thread should have a sticky even if it doesn't follow the BBR-RC ruleset.

It is quite disgusting to want to force tournament organizers to do what a bunch of people on a forum say.

Rules are rules.
How are the BRC supposed to enforce their Ruleset if people can do whatever they wants and get goodies anyways.

 

[Alex Strife]

agreed.

The rules are what they are. I know, in speaking with many in that group, that things will change.

As far as my rules I will be using the usual EC rules that were in place before the Unity Ruleset took precedent. I feel they are the most helpful to new and old players and do not cause as much controversy as these do.


Apex should be stickied IMO though. With the Japanese, Europeans, and various OOC groups coming for both Brawl and Melee it is going to be bigger in scope and in concept than ANYTHING we have done. The production value alone is what sets it apart.

Thank you guys for the input.