Another homophobic christian

[kr3wman]

No offense, but How can homosexuality be genetic again? Don't mind me, but I just don't see how...

 

[S.B.Soldier]

hmm... some good points were made here... it would appear that i came accross different

 

[El Nino]

Because it's late, but I don't want to sleep yet.

He killed a tree for not giving him fruit, so maybe ._.

Maybe he just liked fruit.

No offense, but How can homosexuality be genetic again? Don't mind me, but I just don't see how...

Two things. 1) No gene has yet been definitively linked to homosexuality. 2) No specific set of environmental factors have been definitively linked ot homosexuality either. Meaning, there's no conclusive evidence in favor of either nature or nuture that would rule out the other option.

However. Homosexuality may be genetic in the same way cancer is genetic. Consider two twins carrying the same gene that gives them both a predisposition to lung cancer. One smokes; the other does not. One develops lung cancer; the other does not. However, the one who doesn't develop cancer has children, and so the children carry the gene. Meaning, homosexuality may have a genetic base but require an environmental trigger (or multiple triggers)

Thus, homosexuality may be hereditary. That is, environment + genes. Again, research is not conclusive as of yet.

Randomly, I've heard that Leviticus has been interpreted by some as a set of guidelines for those about to enter priesthood, rather than guidelines for society as a whole. Unfortunately, I misplaced my copy of that particular piece of text and can't verify this.

 

[kr3wman]

No, I meant how can homosexuals have children.

 

[Asdioh]

No, I meant how can homosexuals have children.

Oh, I see.

Well there's the potential of sperm donors, or "I had a child with this man or woman but then I realized that I'm gay"

I don't know what definition I'm looking for, but let's say genetic means anything to do with your genes, which could include a defect. Let's say hereditary means something that is passed down through parents. A genetic defect doesn't have to be hereditary. It could be totally random.

It's like asking, is mental *********** hereditary? I don't think so...it's a genetic defect. I'm not calling homosexuals ********, but it could be a similar explanation. And obviously, if this turns out to be the case, then neither is the case. I've never seen anybody accuse ******* of choosing to be ********.

As a final note, ask yourself: are you a heterosexual because society tells you and you choose to be, or because it just seems natural? I know it's more of the latter for me >_>

 

[:mad:]

No, I meant how can homosexuals have children.

Are you saying that's a bad thing? o_o;

 

[Auron]

Are you saying that's a bad thing? o_o;

.......................

 

[Teran]

Are you saying that's a bad thing? o_o;

I believe so, but let's not go there.

 

[Miggz]

^Hahah, I can't tell if Miggz is mocking me or not.

Oh no, no. I mean that in a good way. I wasn't mocking yah, I enjoyed reading that.

 

[Scott!]

Well, homosexuals probably did have kids all through history, since there was never really any other option conceivable for people other than marrying and mating with a member of the opposite sex. Also, if the possible genetic predisposition comes from a recessive gene, it could be passed on unobserved a lot of the time. I'm no biologist, and this goes back to high school, but I know that much is possible, assuming it's somewhat genetic. It also could be possible that it is a side effect of something more evolutionarily sound, like the gene controls something else that is advantageous in some way.

 

[El Nino]

No, I meant how can homosexuals have children.

Well, the parts still work.

In modern times, there are also sperm banks and surrogate mothers. And adoption. Similar options exist for infertile straight couples.

Well, homosexuals probably did have kids all through history, since there was never really any other option conceivable for people other than marrying and mating with a member of the opposite sex. Also, if the possible genetic predisposition comes from a recessive gene, it could be passed on unobserved a lot of the time.

Not everything can be explained by Mendelian genetics, but you've got the basics down. If homosexuality is hereditary, it means the trait is reactive to the environment. Therefore, a homosexual individual may have heterosexual siblings; they may all carry one particular gene with the predisposition, but only one of them was triggered by something in the environment that resulted in homosexual orientation. And when the heterosexual siblings have kids, they will pass on the gene. Their kids may or may not be gay or lesbian depending on what environmental factors they are exposed to.

There's also the possibility that the trait is linked to multiple genes. Then it could be that there are multiple genes floating around, and when all of them converge within one individual, that individual develops that particular sexual orientation.

It also could be possible that it is a side effect of something more evolutionarily sound, like the gene controls something else that is advantageous in some way.

Probably. And my guess is that it is tied to social biology.

Consider the hypothetical case of you and your spouse dying and leaving behind your only child, who is too young to survive on his/her own. If you have a heterosexual sibling, your sibling will most likely step in to take care of your child. But your sibling may already have a spouse and other children. Therefore, the parental care of two individuals must be divided among multiple children.

Consider the same case, except your sibling is homosexual, has a spouse, and no children. In this scenario, your child receives 100% of the parental care. All other conditions being equal, your child would have a greater chance of survival in this scenario than in the previous one.

 

[kr3wman]

Are you saying that's a bad thing? o_o;

I don't really mind homosexuals, I was just asking how can a man/man or a woman/woman relationship create any children.

I know there's the whole 'man/woman who were homosexuals and showed it were shunned by society and had to hid it by marrying and having kids' but those don't really sound homosexual to me if they had a great marriage and 14 kids.

 

[Amide]

Why does he give us the options to be murderers? As Robot says, it's free will. And the explanation of why He gave us free will isn't that hard to figure out, but I won't spell it out unless you need me to.

He does give us the option to be murderers, but homosexuality isn't one of those choices. For example, imagine you really wanted to be born Asian. Well, it turns out your not, and there is nothing you can do about it. Homosexuality is the same way, except it's a genetic characteristic that isn't visible to the naked eye. It's physically impossible to decide who you are attracted to. No ifs, or buts.

 

[The furosious robot has left]

Second Entry

Situation:A 13 year girl has sex 4 times a day and wants to grow up to be a pole dancer and have a baby, which we will let do "whatever it wants" and has made 5 sex tapes and has sex for money and jewelery sometimes.
^basic overview, for more go to here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8AF52XCoJo

commenter:

\

He does give us the option to be murderers, but homosexuality isn't one of those choices. For example, imagine you really wanted to be born Asian. Well, it turns out your not, and there is nothing you can do about it. Homosexuality is the same way, except it's a genetic characteristic that isn't visible to the naked eye. It's physically impossible to decide who you are attracted to. No ifs, or buts.

But he gives the option to have sex, which is what the bible testifies, which is the origin of the debate.

 

[bobson]

It's physically impossible to decide who you are attracted to. No ifs, or buts.

Proof?
THE TIGHTER YOUR RESTRICTIONS, THE MORE WAYS I WILL FIND TO BYPASS THEM

YOU MAY TAKE MY REPLIES UNDER TEN CHARACTERS, BUT YOU WILL NEVER TAKE MY FREEDOM

 

[_Keno_]

I believe so, but let's not go there.

Thats called stereo-typing.

 

[Cioran]

This is a shameful chapter in American history. There is no question that in 50-75 years gay folks will have the same rights as every other citizen.

Our grandchildren will look upon this close-minded era in much the same way we look back at segregation.

Archaic bible thumpers also believe that Adam and Eve rode dinosaurs to church...so their status as cultural, intellectual or moral arbiters is not just suspect, it is downright laughable.

 

[Sanu]

Proof?
THE TIGHTER YOUR RESTRICTIONS, THE MORE WAYS I WILL FIND TO BYPASS THEM

YOU MAY TAKE MY REPLIES UNDER TEN CHARACTERS, BUT YOU WILL NEVER TAKE MY FREEDOM

Proof? Ask any 100% straight guy to willingly "become" attracted to guys; their looks, their parts, their smell, etc. Get back to me and tell us how that goes.

I've been gay since Puberty, simple as that. I didn't consciously make that choice, hell, I was one of the most homophobic kids in my elementary school. I had an incredibly hard time dealing with reality and deferred all my feelings until I was 18. By then, I hated myself, had tried to commit suicide multiple times because of my sexuality and hated the world around me. Would someone actually ****ing wish that horrible experience on someone... let alone themselves? YAY GUYS; SOCIAL STIGMA, UNJUSTIFIED HATE FOR BEING YOURSELF, GETTING DISOWNED BY YOUR PARENTS AND LOTS AND LOTS OF SELFANGUISH. LET'S DO IT.

Granted, not every homosexual has experiences as extreme as my own... but most if not all go through similar events.

 

[Proverbs]

He does give us the option to be murderers, but homosexuality isn't one of those choices. For example, imagine you really wanted to be born Asian. Well, it turns out your not, and there is nothing you can do about it. Homosexuality is the same way, except it's a genetic characteristic that isn't visible to the naked eye. It's physically impossible to decide who you are attracted to. No ifs, or buts.

Proof?
THE TIGHTER YOUR RESTRICTIONS, THE MORE WAYS I WILL FIND TO BYPASS THEM

YOU MAY TAKE MY REPLIES UNDER TEN CHARACTERS, BUT YOU WILL NEVER TAKE MY FREEDOM

This, and also, great rant at the bottom XD

Seriously TLink, do you expect us to just buy whatever you say? I hate to say it, man, but that's a really shallow argument.

It's like me saying that you're born a murderer. It's physically impossible to decide how you respond to being angered. No ifs, or buts.

Make sense? No. You choose how you respond to things. The mind can condition itself to think a certain way. I'm convinced that if I wanted to be gay, I could keep telling myself I am gay and engage in homosexual relationships and become gay. In the same way, if I allow myself to fly off the handle at everything that angers me just a little, and convince myself I want to kill people, I'm sure I'd become a murderer.

Now, these aren't perfect parallels--it's impossible to find one of those. It is always possible to choose how you respond to something. Someone may be naturally more inclined to be angry than someone else, but it's how you condition yourself to respond to those situations as well as what actions you take in those circumstances.

I, personally, am able to find other guys attractive without being homosexual. While I can say a guy's attractive, I don't take it to the level of wanting a romantic or sexual relationship with him. I am what's called a metrosexual, and so I have often been mistaken for gay (even by myself in my earlier teenage years). I am someone who might even be more inclined to have homosexual feelings. I'll be 100% honest, when I went to MM14 I thought Cactuar was downright attractive. But I control how far I let myself go in that. As it is, I realize I like women, not men. I seek romantic relationships with women, not men. And I have sexual desires for women, and not men (However--and I only mention this so I may be beyond reproach--I am still a virgin and have not fulfilled that sexual desire as I'm not yet married. I just wanted to clear that up for anyone who thought I was hypocritical in my Christianity).

I sympathize with homosexuals because I understand at least to a degree what they're going through, but that doesn't mean that it makes what they do any more right.

Edit:

This is a shameful chapter in American history. There is no question that in 50-75 years gay folks will have the same rights as every other citizen.

Our grandchildren will look upon this close-minded era in much the same way we look back at segregation.

Archaic bible thumpers also believe that Adam and Eve rode dinosaurs to church...so their status as cultural, intellectual or moral arbiters is not just suspect, it is downright laughable.

Question: If you get angry at 'archaic Bible thumpers' for not being accepting to homosexuals, why are you suddenly beyond reproach when you show complete and utter contempt for everything they believe in and stand for? Read what I said earlier. If you want to be 'accepting' you've got to be accepting of people who have different views, too.

Proof? Ask any 100% straight guy to willingly "become" attracted to guys; their looks, their parts, their smell, etc. Get back to me and tell us how that goes.

I've been gay since Puberty, simple as that. I didn't consciously make that choice, hell, I was one of the most homophobic kids in my elementary school. I had an incredibly hard time dealing with reality and deferred all my feelings until I was 18. By then, I hated myself, had tried to commit suicide multiple times because of my sexuality and hated the world around me. Would someone actually ****ing wish that horrible experience on someone... let alone themselves? YAY GUYS; SOCIAL STIGMA, UNJUSTIFIED HATE FOR BEING YOURSELF AND LOTS AND LOTS OF SELFANGUISH. LET'S DO IT.

Granted, not every homosexual has similar (maybe a bit less extreme) experiences... but the majority do.

Read what I wrote above. I deal with some homosexual tendencies, but I remain straight. And interestingly enough, the time when I'm closest to any form of homosexuality is after I've been hurt time and again by many women. Think it's a fear issue? Just an idea. I know of other people who backed out of marriages and became gay because of the damage their wives did to them emotionally. Just a thought.

But I still don't believe homosexuality is inborn. Your argument seems to be mostly based on emotion--what you 'feel' and what you'd rather choose. I'm not asking you what you feel: It could be entirely possible that it was your upbringing that lead you to homosexuality. Ever consider that? It doesn't have to be inborn for it to be a part of you early on.

We don't have any conclusive psychological proof that states whether or not homosexuality is inborn. Until then, we're not even going to touch that subject.

I feel for you, man, but that doesn't make your story conclusive psychological proof. Sorry.

And know that I don't judge you or anything. It's the same way with people who drink, do drugs, all of that stuff--I don't judge them. I believe what they're doing is wrong, but I don't go out of my way to judge them. Same thing with people who have premarital sex. I disapprove, but I don't judge. If someone came seeking what God's Word said about it, I'd tell them the Truth for sure, but I'm not just this crazy 'archaic Bible thumper' that gets a real kick out of making people feel bad about themselves.

Honestly, do you think I like it? I'm a very extrovertive person--I love people so much. It hurts me to see anyone in pain. Do you think I'd like to be the one hated by everyone else just because of a disagreement? Purely on the level of having Christianity be more accepted and just not having to deal with all of the social issues that I do, I'd rather homosexuality be right--but I can't make it that way. You're not the only one who gets judged and criticized--I get it all the time. I do my best to follow my God's Will and I get laughed at. In my writing class I said I was a virgin and one girl broke out in laughter. Granted she later apologized and I completely forgive her, but I'm just giving you a taste of what I have to deal with. I envy you, even, because homosexuality is far more accepted among people my age and in my area than real Christianity is.

We all live with our burdens--I'm not complaining about mine, I'm just trying to do what's right.

 

[Sanu]

Proof? Ask any 100% straight guy to willingly "become" attracted to guys; their looks, their parts, their smell, etc. Get back to me and tell us how that goes.

I've been gay since Puberty, simple as that. I didn't consciously make that choice, hell, I was one of the most homophobic kids in my elementary school. I had an incredibly hard time dealing with reality and deferred all my feelings until I was 18. By then, I hated myself, had tried to commit suicide multiple times because of my sexuality and hated the world around me. Would someone actually ****ing wish that horrible experience on someone... let alone themselves? YAY GUYS; SOCIAL STIGMA, UNJUSTIFIED HATE FOR BEING YOURSELF, GETTING DISOWNED BY YOUR PARENTS AND LOTS AND LOTS OF SELFANGUISH. LET'S DO IT.

Granted, not every homosexual has experiences as extreme as my own... but most if not all go through similar events.

^ Did you not see my post?

Make sense? No. You choose how you respond to things. The mind can condition itself to think a certain way. I'm convinced that if I wanted to be gay, I could keep telling myself I am gay and engage in homosexual relationships and become gay.

XFD You're an incredibly ignorant biggot. How about some proof to back up your claims. So many people have said the same bull**** but that has never happened once. Did you even read my ****ing post? Ever thought I wanted to be straight? Pathetic man.

I, personally, am able to find other guys attractive without being homosexual.

Oh wow, the ability to tell whether someone is ugly or not! Did you realize that everyone has this "ability"?

I sympathize with homosexuals because I understand at least to a degree what they're going through, but that doesn't mean that it makes what they do any more right.

So it's wrong by what, your standards? A book some dude wrote? Real credibly bud, everyone who's gay is suddenly become straight (just like straight guys can suddenly become gay, right? lmao) just because you deem it wrong. Oh, and tell that to other species that have members of which exhibit gay tendencies. They must be blasphemers too! Especially since they are consciously making a choice... wait, they're animals. LOL

 

[Cioran]

Proverbs, it sounds like you're masking your homosexuality behind an increasingly acceptable metrosexual title.

Honestly, it's fine. You're still a good person.

 

[Proverbs]

^ Did you not see my post?



XFD You're an incredibly ignorant biggot. How about some proof to back up your claims. So many people have said the same bull**** but that has never happened once. Did you even read my ****ing post? Ever thought I wanted to be straight? Pathetic man.



Oh wow, the ability to tell whether someone is ugly or not! Did you realize that everyone has this "ability"?



So it's wrong by what, your standards? A book some dude wrote? Real credibly bud, everyone who's gay is suddenly become straight (just like straight guys can suddenly become gay, right? lmao) just because you deem it wrong. Oh, and tell that to other species that have members of which exhibit gay tendencies. They must be blasphemers too! Especially since they are consciously making a choice... wait, they're animals. LOL

I'm not going to take the time to go through each of your posts. My truth will be shown by this:

Re-read what I said in response to your post (I edited it after I read yours) and notice one thing: I speak out of respect for you and don't judge you. You, however, hold back no criticism and mouth me off. And so you may know that I truly follow God, I forgive you. Absolutely and completely. I actually took a moment just then to pray for you, even. Not that you 'become straight' or whatever, but that God forgives you for your stand on all of this. You don't know what you're doing, and that's why I feel so bad for you.

Just notice the difference between us. I show you love and respect--respect even after you spit in my face.


And in response to the other post that I didn't bother to quote:

I'm not masking homosexuality. I've dated enough girls to know that one. I thought I was gay for a while, but I'm just not attracted to guys that way. And there's a girl right now I like a whole lot anyway. But thanks for at least respecting me.

 

[Sanu]

Re-read what I said in response to your post (I edited it after I read yours) and notice one thing: I speak out of respect for you and don't judge you. You, however, hold back no criticism and mouth me off. And so you may know that I truly follow God, I forgive you. Absolutely and completely. I actually took a moment just then to pray for you, even. Not that you 'become straight' or whatever, but that God forgives you for your stand on all of this. You don't know what you're doing, and that's why I feel so bad for you.

Hey, like-wise! Also, you do judge me by claiming that who I am isn't "right". Thanks for letting me know that my existence is nothing but wrongness! BTW, I don't care for apologies from an imaginary man, perhaps YOU should apologize to me be hiding behind claims and pretending to be the bigger man. "I don't Judge". LOL wow, you're full of ****.

Just notice the difference between us. I show you love and respect--respect even after you spit in my face.

Ever heard of the term "passive aggression"? Yeah, that's what you're doing. By "pitying" me, you're displaying passive aggression. You're just as bad, if not worse, as I am. Sadly, I feel that you are the one to be pitied.

 

[kr3wman]

Proof? Ask any 100% straight guy to willingly "become" attracted to guys; their looks, their parts, their smell, etc. Get back to me and tell us how that goes.

So you are saying bisexuals don't exist?

EDIT : Sanuzi, just stfu. He's not ''pitying'' you because you're gay, he's ''pitying'' you because you're acting stupid.

 

[Sanu]

And thus the assumptions begin. I said 100% straight and willingly, did I not? That implies choice, by the way. Bisexuality did not fall under the scope of my previous statement in any way.

Perhaps you should think before you post.

Edit: HEY LOOK GUYS. I'M COOL LIKE KR3WMAN! kr3wman, just stfu. Your posts make no sense at all. Lern2English pl0x.

Telling someone to stfu for reasons not even directly related to the current conversation is the way to be! Trying to find reasons to flame someone is totally rad.

Edit Edit: In before lock.

 

[Cactuar]

My name was mentioned in this thread. ^^

Interesting read on both sides.

 

[Amide]

OK, sorry if it sounded shallow. But it's genetically proven that homosexuality isn't a choice at all, so when you compare it to people deciding to kill, it just seems ignorant.

Edit: But yes, people can choose whether or not to become involved in a gay relationship. They just can't decide if they're gay.

 

[_Keno_]

Proverbs is making too many assumptions with things he has likely never dealt with.

"I believe I could become gay if i wanted"

 

[Sanu]

Edit: But yes, people can choose whether or not to become involved in a gay relationship. They just can't decide if they're gay.

This is true... but yeah, it's definitely hasn't been proven that it's genetics, lol. There's a high possibility (see: homosexuality in other species), but no solid proof.

And lol@random cactus appearance.

 

[Amide]

Well, it actually has been proven to a degree. And I can't imagine why any would WANT to be gay anyway.

Lol this is a thread about a homophobic comment on youtube... If people wanna debate this either PM me or Debate Hall.

*Leaves*

 

[Proverbs]

My name was mentioned in this thread. ^^

Interesting read on both sides.

Hahahahah. Wow. That was great. And sorry Cactuar, but it's true, you're attractive. And it's probably semi-creepyish considering we met like not even a week ago, but don't worry--as you can tell I'm not gay and am interested in someone else--a woman XD Hahah. Oh wow that's really awkward. I'm gonna go run off now XD

 

[bobson]

Proof? Ask any 100% straight guy to willingly "become" attracted to guys; their looks, their parts, their smell, etc. Get back to me and tell us how that goes.

And? That proves that, for whatever reasons, most straight guys wouldn't want to become homosexual. You claimed that it was physically impossible, and I don't take anecdotes as evidence.

OK, sorry if it sounded shallow. But it's genetically proven that homosexuality isn't a choice at all, so when you compare it to people deciding to kill, it just seems ignorant.

Link? Reference?
I'm not taking either side; I just want to see some solid proof on this claim before the discussion ends in flames.

And that was definitely passive-aggression on Proverbs' part. Love keeps no record of wrongs and such.

 

[|RK|]

Sanuzi, you are derailing a perfectly fine discussion. Please refrain from posting if you have nothing intelligent to say.

 

[The furosious robot has left]

mah post is not noticed. and I am the creator.

 

[Sanu]

Humm, pretty sure what I said was intelligent. Sorry bud, I'm going to ask you to refrain from posting if you have nothing informative to say.

 

[Proverbs]

And that was definitely passive-aggression on Proverbs' part. Love keeps no record of wrongs and such.

It totally wasn't intended as passive-aggression--just so everyone knows. I did want him to know that I was offended by the way he flipped out when I regarded him respectfully, but I wasn't trying to be passive aggressive. Sorry Sanuzi if I came across that way. And you guys might also be picking up a lot of aggression that's coming out that has nothing to do with this. I'm just in a terrible place right now--but that's hardly something important to be discussed here.

Sorry again. I wasn't trying to come across the way I was.

 

[Sanu]

And? That proves that, for whatever reasons, most straight guys wouldn't want to become homosexual. You claimed that it was physically impossible, and I don't take anecdotes as evidence.

Ahh, I see. That's great then. So then I ask the same of you, proof that the opposite is true. Not the want thereof, but the success of which.

 

[The furosious robot has left]

You ignored my post about you ignoring my posts.

 

[Cactuar]

@Proverbs: Don't worry about it lol. The smash community has pretty much desensitized me to the idea that guys find me attractive. It's weird, but in a strange way, it has done wonders for my confidence. I used to be really shy and had really poor self image, despite getting a lot of advances from girls. I still get a lot of advances from girls, but now I'm not too shy to respond.

 

[The furosious robot has left]

@Proverbs: Don't worry about it lol. The smash community has pretty much desensitized me to the idea that guys find me attractive. It's weird, but in a strange way, it has done wonders for my confidence. I used to be really shy and had really poor self image, despite getting a lot of advances from girls. I still get a lot of advances from girls, but now I'm not too shy to respond.

If the next post is not about my new submission, you all fail.