An open letter to Sakurai: BPC is no longer doing this

[shanus]

I only brought up Brawl Minus because the poster I was arguing with didn't thought that depth only mattered to those who played competitively (and didn't make a good game in general), that Brawl haters were Melee die hards, and all Brawl hacks were designed to make the game more like Melee.

I'd rather see a new Smash game that is competitive and isn't trying to copy Melee. If I had brought up Project:M in the original argument, I'd be claiming that Melee is the only way to make Smash competitive (I believe it is a good starting point, but isn't the end-all).

I'm not saying PM is the end-all solution to competitive smashing. I was just saying the entire delivery around the OP basing it on B- was dumb as hell.

 

[Revven]

I only brought up Brawl Minus because the poster I was arguing with didn't thought that depth only mattered to those who played competitively (and didn't make a good game in general), that Brawl haters were Melee die hards, and all Brawl hacks were designed to make the game more like Melee.

I'd rather see a new Smash game that is competitive and isn't trying to copy Melee. If I had brought up Project:M in the original argument, I'd be claiming that Melee is the only way to make Smash competitive (I believe it is a good starting point, but isn't the end-all).

It's still biased as hell to claim Brawl Minus as the best way to handle it. Everything should be treated equally if you're trying to reach out to Nintendo, otherwise you're slapping every person in the modding community in the face except for the people involved with Brawl Minus. Brawl Minus isn't what made all those discoveries in the coding possible... and your letter definitely makes it seem that way (which is bull****).

 

[Conviction]

I would translate but that is so much to translate O.o

If you could get another person to help me so I don't mess up some of the katakana I'll glady help.

Reposting in case it was missed.

 

[Revven]

I would hold off on translating it until it gets a major overhaul.

 

[Conviction]

I'll periodically check back in on this thread. Just let me know when to translate, and get another person for help preferably.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

To be honest, the first part of text looks like an ad for Brawl- to me.
You're just too pushy with it. I love this quote:
"Brawl Minus is what Brawl should have been."

By his own goals. Brawl was supposed to be slower and more "casual" than melee.

...when did Armada play Brawl-?

Ask Rkey, he claims Armada enjoyed it quite a bit.

& Project M is what Brawl should have been if you know ANYTHING about what makes a good game.

...Except it's not.

It's ****ing melee again.

Look, I can imagine that you guys think Project M is the better game (from a design standpoint it probably is; I'll vouch for that), and that melee is an completed pinnacle of game design where no flaw doth tread. Oh and that this is just one big ad campaign for Brawl-.

I don't give a flying ****. Beyond the last claim, which is demonstrably false, I just don't care, and it doesn't matter from the perspective of this letter. I've been over why I didn't take P:M already. Yes, Melee is a ****ing great game. Better than brawl? Definitely. But you know what? Sakurai never wanted to make Melee 2.0 with Brawl. And you know what else? If people think I'm insulting him by pointing to two mods that took his already decent work and made it better with the same engine, how insulting would it be for you guys to come in and say "Hey Sakurai, no offense, but we think that nothing you ever create will ever be better than this game you made almost 10 ****ing years ago". Yeah, that's really gonna fly.

This is not about compromising. This is not about my ego. If I thought P:M was the better choice for comparison when pointing out the flaws in the game, I would've used P:M.

But hey, while we're assaulting my personality and calling this an ego trip, here's Shanus bringing up the rear...

Not a single component of our engine forces difficulty on a casual other than autosnapping.

The worst thing about this thread is the same with all of BPC's post - in the end he tries to drive it so that he looks better. Clearly B- has done everything right, despite it having less than 5% of the following. If this open letter was broader it could have established a point on quality development cycles, focusing on addressing both markets, etc, this could have value.

Clearly the fact that we struggle to find people willing to code for us has nothing to do with it. Clearly the fact that literally all the talent around, save for maybe one or two people, work with Project M. Clearly it has nothing to do with the fact that you guys intentionally time your updates to steal what little hype Brawl- can present, and the fact that two of your team's members are with us has nothing to do with that. Clearly the fact that we have trouble getting things done (geez, with such a well-stocked team, I wonder why it takes so long) but still want to provide something to our fan base has no influence on the quality of our work.
Clearly the fact that we chose an open-ended, wide-ranged goal that is almost intentionally "ridiculous" and that the project's main goals are widely misunderstood by almost everyone (including several people who simply say, "yeah, I'm not going to even give this a ****ing chance," and then don't but keep talking trash about us) has nothing to do with our success.

Oh yeah, and here's a big one for ya, pal.

Clearly the fact that you guys are riding the coattails of something that is already confirmed to be popular (as opposed to, say, having original ideas) has nothing to do with your massive success. Comparing P:M with Brawl- is like comparing Painkiller with Modern Warfare 3: of course you guys have the ****ing hype; you're remaking melee. People ****ing loved melee! Plus you have this all-star cast of developers, playtesters, and people willing to set up tournaments for you! And meanwhile we're going off on our own hype, which is not that ****ing easy. Hey, at least Germany loves Brawl-, right?

**** you Shanus. That was a low blow and you know it.

But hey, speaking of low blows... I live in europe. Around here, I could not name a single person who plays P:M regularly... But I got 26 people to participate in a Brawl- bracket at a recent tournament, and I've got Brawl- lined up as a side event for the next few nationals. I really am curious where you got that 5% figure, because from what I can see, that statement was not pulled out of your mouth.

Now, if you actually want to help me edit this thing, or make your own, instead of just ****ting in the soup, then be my guest. Because right now all you're doing is taking potshots at the reputation of someone who really shouldn't qualify as a rival for you. You wanna make this better? Then ****ing do it.

Thank you for saving me the time of posting something. No one I know in Louisiana has ever taken Brawl- seriously. It's a game that they play when they are under the influence.

Do you often post on SRK? Because you sound like someone I remember... Ah yes, the average SRK member in reference to some game I've heard of before...

um srk doesnt have a party/baby game section. just delete

not a fighting game, mods move this to gd please

thats nice but this is fighting game discussion

Haters gonna hate, I'm pumped for more Smash. I would body you all with my Jigglypuff anyway.

why dont you boast about being the best at tonka trucks next

But hey, I'm revising the letter anyways, because, as people have pointed out, the language is a little bit too harsh, and the way I bring across my points will, should anyone read it, ensure that it doesn't get taken seriously. If you think "we took your engine, and completely reverted it to the one you had in 2001, please make Melee 2.0" is going to fly better than this, then by all means, try it yourselves. But in the meanwhile, I will be advocating Brawl- as "the way brawl should have been" because that seriously is what it ****ing is, and if you think that there's a different mod that fills that niche, then you are either deluded, or you must be one of the 10 people who actively play Balanced Brawl, which I do bring up in this letter as well.

At least Falco400 brings up a few good points without taking a shot under the belt line. Guess we aren't all ****s here, eh? Like I said, I'm going to edit this, and I am asking for help. Whether I get it or not, Nintendo really needs to hear our voices, and it's about time we made it happen, unrealistic or not.

@Iblis:

I would hold off on translating it until it gets a major overhaul.

This. I definitely appreciate the offer, but yeah, it needs some serious editing.

 

[ds22]

All I see in your post is raging about being told and shameless self promotion.

If you honestly think that Sakurai (or Nintendo for that matter) will even take you serious, then your more deluded then you portray people who don't agree with your view on what Brawl should've been.

 

[shanus]

I made suggestions, remove Brawl- from the picture entirely, make points on how the development cycle can be improved, you can cater to both casuals and competitive players, and you can reward on hit, etc.

The fact is the first post reads like an ad rather than true suggestions.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Oh, and on a side note: now I remember why I don't play Melee... The online community is literally completely full of ****s.

 

[Jaklub]

Oh, and on a side note: now I remember why I don't play Melee... The online community is literally completely full of self-important *******s. ^_^

You're just like them, except you're loving Brawl- instead of Melee.

 

[Strong Badam]

...Except it's not.

It's ****ing melee again.

Look, I can imagine that you guys think Project M is the better game (from a design standpoint it probably is; I'll vouch for that), and that melee is an completed pinnacle of game design where no flaw doth tread. Oh and that this is just one big ad campaign for Brawl-.

Melee isn't perfect or we wouldn't have made Project M. Get off that ****. It isn't Melee again. If it was Melee again, people would just play Melee.

I don't give a flying ****. Beyond the last claim, which is demonstrably false, I just don't care, and it doesn't matter from the perspective of this letter. I've been over why I didn't take P:M already. Yes, Melee is a ****ing great game. Better than brawl? Definitely. But you know what? Sakurai never wanted to make Melee 2.0 with Brawl. And you know what else? If people think I'm insulting him by pointing to two mods that took his already decent work and made it better with the same engine, how insulting would it be for you guys to come in and say "Hey Sakurai, no offense, but we think that nothing you ever create will ever be better than this game you made almost 10 ****ing years ago". Yeah, that's really gonna fly.

Yes, that's exactly what Project M is about. Making a statement about a game coming out that we didn't know about before we started it. Nice point!

By the way, you know who plays Project M regularly? Amsah, Remen, et. all. ds22 is also a European playtester.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Melee isn't perfect or we wouldn't have made Project M. Get off that ****. It isn't Melee again. If it was Melee again, people would just play Melee.

I know, but gosh darn if it doesn't look like it. Damn if you aren't more or less treating it like melee 2.0. Damn if it doesn't have the same mechanics, just a little something added on... Yes, it's different, but you guys are trying your absolute hardest to recreate exactly the same physics. Damn if it doesn't look like it from a developers standpoint.

Yes, that's exactly what Project M is about. Making a statement about a game coming out that we didn't know about before we started it. Nice point!

...And yet your game is still a complete throwback to that game. You're completely missing my point.

Look, replace Brawl- with Project M in that letter and what do you get? You have a group of people basically saying "what you did was completely wrong, revert it to how it was before and work from there please". This is the problem, this is why I did not choose Project M. I probably should've gone with Balanced Brawl, but I'm not entirely sure if that really addresses all of the issues in vBrawl (especially the "reward on hit" one).

 

[Xyless]

*sees BPC make a Minus topic that is surprisingly quality*
*searches for P:M devs to spit in his face as they always do*

Oh look, it's Shanus and Strong Bad! Hi guys!

(thank god Falco's being reasonable)


Anyways, the battle between B- and P:M has pretty much always been down to casuals vs competitives, and I'm pretty sure Nintendo's more or less done with the competitive side, as much as I hate to say it. I, personally, loved Melee more than Brawl at its core. But Nintendo's all about catering to the other side, the people who find enjoyment out of timed matches with items, low gravity, and bunny ears on. By now, I don't think they have enough of a team invested in that would be willing to make a game super intensely competitive like Melee, especially now that they are making it for two consoles.

 

[Strong Badam]

or you could just not mention any mod at all because none of them portray what you're trying to say
Xyless saying in the first line exactly what this thread is; a Brawl Minus thread. stop trying to make this out to be some heartfelt letter to Sakurai and tell us you're advertising Brawl Minus.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

or you could just not mention any mod at all because none of them portray what you're trying to say

EXCEPT BRAWL- TOTALLY DOES!

Look, why the **** do you think I picked it? Brawl- does throw everything that is wrong with Brawl into a stark light! And it does so with only a few global physics changes! It's the game Sakurai could've designed if he didn't screw the pooch so completely! Project M is the game that Sakurai could've designed if he agreed, "yep, let's make melee 2.0". Which is, again, why I did not use it.

THIS IS NOT A HARD CONCEPT TO GRASP, PEOPLE.

And because some people are super turbo mega derpy around here, let me spell it out for you:

"There are three Smash Bros. games out now, but even if I ever had a chance at another one, I doubt we'll ever see one that's as geared toward hardcore gamers as Melee was. Melee fans who played deep into the game without any problems might have trouble understanding this, but Melee was just too difficult."

TL;DR:

Melee was too hard, I'm not going that direction again

 

[shanus]

*sees BPC make a Minus topic that is surprisingly quality*
*searches for P:M devs to spit in his face as they always do*

Oh look, it's Shanus and Strong Bad! Hi guys!

(thank god Falco's being reasonable)


Anyways, the battle between B- and P:M has pretty much always been down to casuals vs competitives, and I'm pretty sure Nintendo's more or less done with the competitive side, as much as I hate to say it. I, personally, loved Melee more than Brawl at its core. But Nintendo's all about catering to the other side, the people who find enjoyment out of timed matches with items, low gravity, and bunny ears on. By now, I don't think they have enough of a team invested in that would be willing to make a game super intensely competitive like Melee, especially now that they are making it for two consoles.

I made constructive criticism on what this letter should have been. Sorry for raining on your parade, but it really did just make you guys look like your trying to advertise which didn't add any value to BPC's points. There could be value if this was executed well. I like how you think I spend my day conniving how to make your life harder, but really, I couldn't care less lol.

 

[Jaklub]

Look, why the **** do you think I picked it? Brawl- does throw everything that is wrong with Brawl into a stark light! And it does so with only a few global physics changes! It's the game Sakurai could've designed if he didn't screw the pooch so completely! Project M is the game that Sakurai could've designed if he agreed, "yep, let's make melee 2.0". Which is, again, why I did not use it.

THIS IS NOT A HARD CONCEPT TO GRASP, PEOPLE.

It would be the best if you did not mention any mod. But if you really have to, please do it in less pushy way.

I haven't played both Brawl- and Project M, by the way.

 

[Xyless]

I made constructive criticism on what this letter should have been. Sorry for raining on your parade, but it really did just make you guys look like your trying to advertise which didn't add any value to BPC's points. There could be value if this was executed well. I like how you think I spend my day conniving how to make your life harder, but really, I couldn't care less lol.

I already gave him notes and criticism elsewhere.

 

[Conviction]

The way this thread is turning out is already annoying me and I don't even like any mods.

or you could just not mention any mod at all because none of them portray what you're trying to say
Xyless saying in the first line exactly what this thread is; a Brawl Minus thread. stop trying to make this out to be some heartfelt letter to Sakurai and tell us you're advertising Brawl Minus.

Here I got a suggestion homie. You just stop criticizing and a make a better version of this letter yourself, at least help contribute in any sort or way.

Or. Just shut up.

I'm pretty sure Nintendo's more or less done with the competitive side, as much as I hate to say it. But Nintendo's all about catering to the other side, the people who find enjoyment out of timed matches with items, low gravity, and bunny ears on. By now, I don't think they have enough of a team invested in that would be willing to make a game super intensely competitive like Melee, especially now that they are making it for two consoles.

@Cadet: Wrong. Sakurai will now be having Sora do most of the balancing and character development so at the very least we will be seeing something better than brawl.
At last E3 when Smash was announced they said they were going to cater more to the competitive side.

 

[Xyless]

Wait they did? I had to leave right before the smash announcement itself happened, so I missed it.

 

[Strong Badam]

how many people would say that Brawl- is what they want out of a smash game? very few.
I'm not saying use Project M. I'm saying don't use Brawl-.


might as well use UNSTOPPABRAWL

you still have no nontumble trajectory DI
you still have random tripping on moves with a 180-360 angle below the tumble threshold
you still don't have trajectory DI on moves with trajectories of -17 to +17
where's your shieldstun code from? brawl+?
how long is the shield drop animation in your game? still 7 or 8 frames?
you /added/ hitstun rather than simply removing hitstun canceling. this isn't inherently bad or anything, but this shifts the balance between Offensive and Defensive gameplay that Melee had to the offensive side. whether or not that's a good thing is subjective. the rest are clearly design flaws.

very constructive, Iblis.

shanus, Falco400, and I have been the most constructive out of anyone in this thread these past two pages.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I made constructive criticism on what this letter should have been. Sorry for raining on your parade, but it really did just make you guys look like your trying to advertise which didn't add any value to BPC's points. There could be value if this was executed well. I like how you think I spend my day conniving how to make your life harder, but really, I couldn't care less lol.

Except... It was a ****ing personal attack assaulting the value of my game as well as my own posting style.

The worst thing about this thread is the same with all of BPC's post - in the end he tries to drive it so that he looks better. Clearly B- has done everything right, despite it having less than 5% of the following.

Notice: this is more than this:

If this open letter was broader it could have established a point on quality development cycles, focusing on addressing both markets, etc, this could have value.

^_^

And even that gives me a very small impression of, you know, what to actually stuff in the OP. Very vague, and if I didn't figure it out the first time, I'm obviously going to know the second time...

Cut the bull****, Shanus. I'm editing the OP right now (despite the fact that I should be working on this project that needs to be done tomorrow for me to be able to go to the smashfest this weekend) and creating a new intro, and you can either help or you can not; these (by these I mean this post I just quoted and the one earlier in the thread) are not helping, no matter how much you want to pretend they are.

@Strong Bad: honestly, just go eat a bag of ****s. Falco400 has been helpful and constructive. You and Shanus have not.

If anyone wants to help me, I'm editing this live on skype. Add me.

 

[Slashy]

It's still biased as hell to claim Brawl Minus as the best way to handle it. Everything should be treated equally if you're trying to reach out to Nintendo, otherwise you're slapping every person in the modding community in the face except for the people involved with Brawl Minus. Brawl Minus isn't what made all those discoveries in the coding possible... and your letter definitely makes it seem that way (which is bull****).

When I made this original argument, it wasn't a letter against Sakurai, it was an explanation on why depth was good for the Smash series, and where Brawl faltered there. I was trying to take a stance that wanting depth and good competitive play is different from saying that you want them to copy Melee.

Brawl- being a casual mod that improves competitive play, was used as a way of saying that everyone can potentially benefit from a deeper metagame, as well as an easy way (for me at least) to highlight all the MAJOR problems with Brawl's metagame.

Personally, the only thing I'd like Sakurai to learn from Brawl- is there is a way that balancing the roster can be a very fun experience for everyone involved.

 

[SuperMetroid44]

Guys, guys, c'mon, don't argue... If it continues, you know, a MOD might lock it.

From what I gathered, we want the FAIR problems that a lot of people have with Brawl to be fixed. So idk what the big fuss is about.

 

[Revven]

At last E3 when Smash was announced they said they were going to cater more to the competitive side.

They didn't specifically say that, the translated Iwata Asks just says that the 3DS version will likely be a different experience from the console version. Beyond that, Sakurai still had the ideal that casual players should still be able to win against a competitive player and Iwata shared that sentiment. So no, they didn't say anything about catering to who specifically, they just babbled on about what they think they should strive for, nothing really concrete.

Secondly, they have absolutely no reason to cater to the competitive players at all. They've shown they don't care by simply flat out ignoring MLG, stripping Brawl of many core elements already programmed into the game, and adding tripping in many different ways to get in the way of the other players winning/losing. 11% chance of tripping while in the weak stun animation (which is how and why Ganondorf's Fair trips characters at low %s), 1% chance of tripping while running/dashing (which even though it's that low it still happens incredibly often), 30-50% chance of tripping on moves that have intentional tripping, and bananas having 100% chance of tripping (though this is actually accepted by the Smash community because it's an ITEM). It's mind boggling, it's just simply amazing that they bothered to code many different ways tripping can occur or be triggered.

So if they want to suddenly turn around and cater to us, they have to prove they are, just simply babbling on about conceptual ideas doesn't tell me anything. Especially with the mind set they're still showing.

This letter, at its core, should be addressing that Sakurai & his team completely missed the boat on the competitive community with Brawl. I don't personally care that there IS a community that plays Brawl competitively still, it doesn't mean Brawl was made properly for competitive players (and it wasn't as proven by intentionally disabling a lot of things they already took the time to program in the first place). If the letter can properly address that concern without being harsh on how the team (Sora that is) went about Brawl it likely won't be ignored that badly and maybe will be taken seriously. But, I still have little doubt this will go anywhere and Sakurai & his team will continue on their merry way to do what they want rather than take suggestions from the competitive community. They'll continue to alienate the competitive community and split it up.

 

[Xyless]

That is true, Falco. If I had to choose between Brawl Minus-style over-the-top fun with Smash being taken seriously again, I'd far rather have Smash being taken seriously again. If anything, I always have Minus to fall back on if/when I get bored of serious playing, which is pretty much how I do it now.

As much as I love Minus (and obviously I do), I'd rather Nintendo/Project Sora take the project as seriously as they can, because they did prove in Melee that they could pull it off.

 

[Slashy]

I always had the belief that Sakurai started out with something that was like Brawl+ then proceeded to remove features until it was the game it was today.

There was always something about Brawl+ that felt...so natural, like more natural than the vanilla version of the game.

That is true, Falco. If I had to choose between Brawl Minus-style over-the-top fun with Smash being taken seriously again, I'd far rather have Smash being taken seriously again. If anything, I always have Minus to fall back on if/when I get bored of serious playing, which is pretty much how I do it now.

As much as I love Minus (and obviously I do), I'd rather Nintendo/Project Sora take the project as seriously as they can, because they did prove in Melee that they could pull it off.

This was a point in my original post (that you all seemed to gloss over) that the game COULD have been SUPER WACKY FUN TIME without destroying good game mechanics. Brawl Minus' stupid nature serves to remove the "I'm sad that I lost" factor that Sakurai was attempting to accomplish with Brawl.

 

[Revven]

There was always something about Brawl+ that felt...so natural, like more natural than the vanilla version of the game.

I don't really agree. Brawl+ only changed a few mechanics to be right, but there were still a lot of problems with it mechanically that made many of the character changes extremely silly. The most important of these is non-tumble DI, which isn't even techskill related at all yet Sakurai felt (or his team... can't really blame Sakurai I guess) it was a good idea to disable it. That alone makes many moves in Brawl+ as well as Brawl silly and over the top broken (DDD's chaingrab, Falco's chaingrab, and Sheik's Ftilt). Which is one of the reasons Brawl+ didn't satisfy people, it was incomplete, still had many mechanical problems, and other things that I'm forgetting.

The point is, without something as basic as non-tumble DI I've lost a lot of faith in Sakurai & his team. That is what concerns me the most, he could decide to take DI out completely if he wanted to, he didn't seem to have a problem taking out non-tumble DI for Brawl so the only next logical step would be to take normal DI out!

Basic core elements like that, that make Smash is what has me not caring for the next Smash and why I think the way I do.

 

[Slashy]

I don't really agree. Brawl+ only changed a few mechanics to be right, but there were still a lot of problems with it mechanically that made many of the character changes extremely silly. The most important of these is non-tumble DI, which isn't even techskill related at all yet Sakurai felt (or his team... can't really blame Sakurai I guess) it was a good idea to disable it. That alone makes many moves in Brawl+ as well as Brawl silly and over the top broken (DDD's chaingrab, Falco's chaingrab, and Sheik's Ftilt). Which is one of the reasons Brawl+ didn't satisfy people, it was incomplete, still had many mechanical problems, and other things that I'm forgetting.

The point is, without something as basic as non-tumble DI I've lost a lot of faith in Sakurai & his team. That is what concerns me the most, he could decide to take DI out completely if he wanted to, he didn't seem to have a problem taking out non-tumble DI for Brawl so the only next logical step would be to take normal DI out!

Basic core elements like that, that make Smash is what has me not caring for the next Smash and why I think the way I do.

Wouldn't that be a good thing? I mean people like Smash 64 right?

(Don't forget there wasn't any DI at all in the original Japanese version, including SDI)

 

[Xyless]

No, DI is what makes Smash special, and it is an ingenious mechanic that gives the person being hit a chance to affect their trajectory, ability to be combo'd, and plenty of other things. It is what separates itself from pretty much every other combo fighter out there that, once you get hit, you can put down the controller while the opponent BnB's you into submission.

 

[Slashy]

Yeah but people (including me) claim that Smash 64 is a better game than Brawl, so removing DI at this point is an improvement arguably.

 

[Revven]

Wouldn't that be a good thing? I mean people like Smash 64 right?

(Don't forget there wasn't any DI at all in the original Japanese version, including SDI)

No, it would not be a good thing with the way most moves work right now. Smash 64 is a different game on its own, high hitstun, high shieldstun, ridiculous hitboxes, and the list goes on. It was the first game, so of course it wasn't going to have what we have now. It was barebones, they didn't expect it to sell as well as it did.

Secondly, the Japanese version doesn't matter, it's clear that because they bothered to modify the US version that they knew there were things wrong with it. But they clearly didn't want to change the game that drastically hence why it's only SDI. Smash 64 is called by most "ridiculous" for a reason, 0-deaths everywhere and many characters are just ... stupid broken and a lot of mechanics are not perfect (DK's cargo release infinite for example). It's a much smaller competitive community for those reasons alone.

Smash 64 is only inherently better than Brawl because you can't retardedly break out of things with the press of a button and it didn't try to impede you from doing cool ****.

 

[Slashy]

It's also pretty darn balanced, but that is for the same reasoning that Brawl Minus is balanced. It didn't have broken glitches like Infinite Dimensional Cape, nor did it have universal game breaking techniques like planking.

I don't hail Smash 64 as the best developed Smash game ever (obviously Melee is far far better than it), but I also don't see it as a bad starting ground if Sakurai wanted to start from scratch.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

**** you all. OP updated.

 

[Strong Badam]

brb eating a bag of ****s

 

[Gatlin]

Please don't make spam-posts, try to at least keep it on the topic of the thread rather than arguing/flaming/trolling amongst each other.

 

[Oro?!]

Edit: read the above post.

 

[Slashy]

Look I think that Sakurai should focus on concepts and a few specific ideas. Ideas that can work with HIS vision for Smash 4. We should be HELPING him with game design not hindering.

If we were to use mods, then lets focus on what each mod does well. Brawl Minus is very good at character and viable stage diversity moreso than Project:M, it's also does a better job at showing a wackier atmosphere much like Super Gem Fighter or WakuWaku 7.

Project:M does a better job at providing an ideal competitive environment, with a wide range of universal techniques, a great physics engine, a high skill ceiling, and a high tech skill ceiling.

Sakurai would be smart to not focus on one of these ideas and instead utilize them to where they would be best suited to be implemented.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Look I think that Sakurai should focus on concepts and a few specific ideas. Ideas that can work with HIS vision for Smash 4. We should be HELPING him with game design not hindering.

If we were to use mods, then lets focus on what each mod does well. Brawl Minus is very good at character and viable stage diversity moreso than Project:M, it's also does a better job at showing a wackier atmosphere much like Super Gem Fighter or WakuWaku 7.

Project:M does a better job at providing an ideal competitive environment, with a wide range of universal techniques, a great physics engine, a high skill ceiling, and a high tech skill ceiling.

Sakurai would be smart to not focus on one of these ideas and instead utilize them to where they would be best suited to be implemented.

Find a way to better implement this in the letter and I'll chuck it in.

 

[i1337]

I can't believe I actually read all of that.

I agree with a lot of it, though.