All Things Shiny Here. Everything about Falco's Shine/Reflector [Updated 24th Nov]

[Fluke]

Doing mega update today. In fact, I might as a section on EVERY MOVE of each character it reflects. And All move which reflect it. (If anyone has a premade template of those character images list, I would be heavily thankful.

Since the rest of the info here as some people say, is quite dam obvious, I guess listing all these reflectable things are good.

I will be editing the opening post a lot today, so I can see what I am doing (all the code tags hurts my eyes)


When I'm finished which I will indicate here when I edit THIS POST, tell me if I missed anything.

OK! I THINK I AM DONE FOR TODAY. ZOMG IT TOOK SO DAM LONG!

 

[Fluke]

Update:

Zamus' Down Tilt AND Side B reflects as well.

I have a feeling almost anything can reflect the shine, given the perfect time execution.

 

[thexsunrosered]

hey, i don't know if you are aware of this or not, but if falco shines pit right as he executes his down-b shield, the shield will repel the shine, and, inturn make falco do a 180 and shine completely in the opposite direction. i don't know if its reflective properties or physical damaging properties still hold true, but i know the animation takes place. just letting you know if you didn't. ill go try it out to see if still reflects and whatnot -.-

 

[Fluke]

Urgent News::


After about a total of 3hours of randomly testing lots of stuff, I have come to a conclusion that:

Nothing REFLECTS the shine. It is simply before Falco's hitbox is extended to the lg which he kick with and thus he gets hit. The shine stalls and looks like it hits falco, but 1/4 mode in traiingi shows otherwise that Falco simple gets hit. I should had noticed this by Falco taking damage of not his own shine, but the attack of the opponent.



Will need to update this soon.






I tried Pit's Down B thing, yes it does what is similar to Mario's Cape.

Shining a grounded top does not work? It needs to at least be moving/bouncing?

Shining a C4 on ground do nothing?

 

[Hawks go Caw]

Urgent News::


After about a total of 3hours of randomly testing lots of stuff, I have come to a conclusion that:

Nothing REFLECTS the shine. It is simply before Falco's hitbox is extended to the lg which he kick with and thus he gets hit. The shine stalls and looks like it hits falco, but 1/4 mode in traiingi shows otherwise that Falco simple gets hit. I should had noticed this by Falco taking damage of not his own shine, but the attack of the opponent.



Will need to update this soon.






I tried Pit's Down B thing, yes it does what is similar to Mario's Cape.

Shining a grounded top does not work? It needs to at least be moving/bouncing?

Shining a C4 on ground do nothing?

I don't think the shine has any effect on grounded items aside from detonating Snake's land mine.

 

[Fluke]

I don't think the shine has any effect on grounded items aside from detonating Snake's land mine.

So it can detonate the C4?

Does it have to be physically hit to explode? ie, it needs to be on a platform/close to the edge so falco can jump/fall shine it? (I forgot to try this, will soon later)





I messed around with hitting aerial people with the shine, if you hit fast falling characters with the bottom of the shine's hitbox in the air. You could continue it with a fast attack eg jabs, or even another shine.

What I mean is the if you him them with the shine like that, they are hitted downwards, and by the time both of you reach the ground, you would have the lag of the shine just finished to jab whatever.

However hitting the shine like that is no easy task, and it is escapable.

Note: you are shining at a height that the shine comes back to you right before/as you land.


That was another attempt of a shine combo.






On the note about reflecting Falco's shine, maybe I 'll just turn that into attacks which can hit Falco head on against his shine if timed right, so be wary of it.










And, you can reflect Samus's bombs similarly to Snake's Up Smash. The bomb/mortar does not move, but it becomes the ownership of Falco, so it hurts the Samus/Snake.




Also, when you shine Link's Bombs, sometimes instead of reflecting, the shine physical hits and explodes the bomb.

This is is bewildered me as well. Are there times were the reflector doesn't reflect for a breif frame or two, and physically hits only? It seems to be the same while flash which ratherion said did the tripping. I need to test the tripping sweetpot too. I noticed that when I tripped someone, I moved forward a bit and shine again, and repeated tripped him. I need to find out if it is because he was tripped already or because it was the sweet spot (I moved appox same amount each time) or even a combination of both. Let's find a way to trip with Falco's Shine as much as Diddy's Bananas!

 

[thexsunrosered]

I don't think the shine has any effect on grounded items aside from detonating Snake's land mine.

if C4 is his down smash, then yeah he can explode it, but you have to be under it jumping up ( like he plants it on a platform above you on battlefield and you jump from under-left/right of it and shine before you get to it)

what I WANNA KNOW is, what effect does shining a mine thing mid-drop from snake. if it shoots it across the screen, or does nothing, or destroys it or what. idk, i just think it would be pretty amazing to be able to have snake drop one in the air, then falco jump and shine it so it fly's and sticks on him, and we he explodes it, it kills him. epic.

and also, for a shine combo, I actually do use it in the middle of a combo. its pretty much like the down throw shine combo, except i dash and up smash, then immediatly ( i don't know if this is a SUPER COOL ADVANCED TECHNIQUE or whatever, i don't really pay attention to those lol) smash up on the analog and down on the c stick for his spike, then shine again. i know its alot, and it all completely only works as your first or second intial combo, but the down throw shine, dash up-smash pretty much works for me every time. and usually, if i know a short hop won't work i just full jump spike him and it works then too. this is me though, idk if this is something everyone can do or if its the people i play, but i just wanted to give other falco players the heads up =]

keep it up

 

[Fluke]

I assumed C4 to be his down B/Down special:
http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/snake.html

I am going to try the snake's dsmash thing myself, and add it. Thanks.


I tried shining the thing as it falls, it does not push it away/nor explode immediately, but I didn't test if it does something similar to shining samus's bombs/snakes upsmash.

I have never got Falco's shine to detonate the planted C4. I don't know what I am doing wrong. or is it a misinterpretation?

But the C4 hits himself anyway, so you would need to try time mode and see who gets the point, but if it stock, if he dies either way, WIN :D


I'm slightly confused in the first "combo" you have mentioned:
What I'm reading is:
Dthrow, dash, upsmash, jump, dair, shine. (The shine is at the end here? Is the dair sweetspoted so you shine as they bounce off the ground, OR NOT sweetspotted as you hit them with the shine in the air?)

Unless you mean:
Dthrow, shine, dash(techchasing), upsmash, jump, dair, shine. (Then here we have a shine in the middle)

Not to mention you could gattle (dash cancelled upsmash aka DLX) instead of just upsmash.

I understand this is like for bellow 50% (Or else Upsmash hits too far up?)


Just want to clear things up. I greatly appreciate your help. Thanks.



Rate this thread out of five stars *cough*FIVESTARS*cough*. If you like it. I wish it could eventually be stickied. It's only had 4 Votes so far.





Other stuff I am trying to do is SH Rising Shine against Snake's upsmash, so he gets hit by the shine but not kbed too far to be hurt by his own mortar, then Falco should have enough time to chase him as snake is flying around.




Any suggestions to this "guide" would be great. - Originally I never planned to make this a guide.

 

[Hawks go Caw]

So I'm not 100% sure, but I'm pretty positive, Shine reflects G&W's fish from the fishbowl.

I was doing 1v1 vs the computer when he used fishbowl. I shined and I just tapped the fish with the end of my reflector (the part that doesn't even hit opponents) and G&W somehow got hit.

 

[thexsunrosered]

okay, i had a whole like, three paragraphs written and i left to get some moutain dew and when i got back my dad closed the window >.>
anyway, the combo that i said doesn't work, it did once, but i don't know how. also, the c4 thing doesn't work, he can't do anything to it, ever. snakes mine that he plants in the ground however, can be exploded when standing next to it or from jumping under it. now i know this has NOTHING to do with shining, but im pretty sure i found something that his chain grab can be broken with. granted, im not the chain grab MASTER, but im pretty sure i do it consistently well. HOWEVER when my opponent was Marth, i failed to complete even a second throw when marth executed his up-b after the first throw, even at 0 damage. i think someone that is really confident in the chain grabbing abilities shouuld either confirm this for me or show me how much i fail at chain grabs. ill repost this on the other one too.

 

[1337marth]

Wow this is a great thread it will really help me with my shine, I do need help to pull it off, but when coming back from stage I use it on the opponent when close enough.

 

[Tommy_G]

New technique: Double shine

If you use the shine right when you land with the right timing, it looks as if two shines will come out both inside of each other.
This doesn't add any damage to something when reflected besides the 1.5x nor does it add damage when hitting the opponent. It just looks really cool....but I did not test the tripping rate. Maybe if this increases the tripping rate, this could become very useful.

 

[Fluke]

New technique: Double shine

If you use the shine right when you land with the right timing, it looks as if two shines will come out both inside of each other.
This doesn't add any damage to something when reflected besides the 1.5x nor does it add damage when hitting the opponent. It just looks really cool....but I did not test the tripping rate. Maybe if this increases the tripping rate, this could become very useful.

Ah!

I noticed something was strange when I shine in the air, trying to time it into another one once I hit the ground. (Was trying any combo potential)


This is interesting. I'll add it in the next update. Thanks!

 

[Tommy_G]

Yeah, if you use it like Mario's Cape Glide(as you're falling off of the stage) or right when you land on the stage, two shines come out; however, there is not bonuses for the extra shine in regards to reflection damage or attack damage(hit with the shine) If someone wants to do some testing for tripping rate, it would be appreciated. I can't test it, I won't have my wii until Thursday

 

[Drakuaza]

the guide grew pretty good, i see 2-3 new stuff i didnt knew, so after a long break falco's teches really improved.

 

[shadowtroop]

finally! i can contribute someting to this place! any way i was experamenting wit rolling crates on corneria, an i found the answer to te mystery tat is link's bombs.

see, certain projectiles (usually explosives) can only be hit a certain amount of times before they explode, links bombs=once , sooo, when a bomb hits te reflector moving out, it explodes , but moving in it actually reflects
i think....

 

[Fluke]

finally! i can contribute someting to this place! any way i was experamenting wit rolling crates on corneria, an i found the answer to te mystery tat is link's bombs.

see, certain projectiles (usually explosives) can only be hit a certain amount of times before they explode, links bombs=once , sooo, when a bomb hits te reflector moving out, it explodes , but moving in it actually reflects
i think....

Yes this is true, but the bomb ALSO is REFLECTED at times when the reflector is moving out. This fact of that sometimes it hits and sometimes it reflects make me wonder are there times during the outward animation where it either only reflects or hits only? (Most likely it is a viability in the reflector hit-reflectbox)

 

[midnightsun112]

Once i shined lucas when he hit himself with pk thunder, and it stopped him. The next time i tried, he went straight through it and hit me. Does anyone know what happened?

 

[Fluke]

Once i shined lucas when he hit himself with pk thunder, and it stopped him. The next time i tried, he went straight through it and hit me. Does anyone know what happened?

I'd say it is because PKT2 for lucas has multihits. The first case is when is you hit him in between those hits.
The second case is either when you hit each other at the same time and he continues since the hits kinda just exchange with no knockback, or you actually missed him instead.

 

[-Nana-]

Interesting thread.

Just so you know Lucarios over B move can also be shined from a distance and hit Lucario. Apparently it's considered a projectile.

 

[Fluke]

Interesting thread.

Just so you know Lucarios over B move can also be shined from a distance and hit Lucario. Apparently it's considered a projectile.

Thankyou,

And thanks again for the info, I'll add it next update.


(I know I have been saying "next update" quite a lot, and it won't be soon til my exams are over..)

 

[T-skjorte Ninja]

There is this thing about the "rumour".
I saw Diddy reflect my "Shine" with a FSmash. Falco was electrically damaged. O.o Diddy soesn't have any electrical attack does he? :\

 

[Fluke]

There is this thing about the "rumour".
I saw Diddy reflect my "Shine" with a FSmash. Falco was electrically damaged. O.o Diddy soesn't have any electrical attack does he? :\

Do you happen to have a video/replay?

I do remember a video of Snake vsing Falco in PKMStadium2, where his AAA did this electrical thing to Falco (First case of reflect). But I thought it was a graphical glitch since I haven't never replicated it. (truth is, I have actually forgotten about it by the time I had SSB in Australia)

Does anyone have the link to that video again if anyone remembers?


If we can confirm it is the reflector actually being reflected (since Falco takes dmg from it, and not the attack of the opponent), then we can actually list moves that might do so (unless every move can, if timed right as well). With that being said, then it would only be your case (diddy's fsmash) and AAA that are qualified to be accepted atm.

 

[T-skjorte Ninja]

No replay. It was a battle over 3 minutes. But maybe I'll try to reflect again with a Diddy and take replay. But I have no camera (I think), so I'll find a way.

There was also a second time SHINE got reflected. Not that I remember who it was.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Falcos Reflector always trips when used directly after a shorthop fastfall. What are the best combos to follow up with after that?

 

[Fluke]

Falcos Reflector always trips when used directly after a shorthop fastfall. What are the best combos to follow up with after that?

I would love to believe that, but do you have any proof?

I haven't had the time to play ssbb myself, let alone play my wii.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I do have a saved replay of me doing it. But other than that no I don't have any proof and I do not the ability to post it on the internet. All I can do really is to try and explain it to the best of my knowledge. The idea is to use the Reflector after using the fastfall, but you only use it in an area just a little bit before hitting the ground. I haven't exactly perfected doing this as I normally mess up doing the fastfall.

 

[Fluke]

When you do this shine RIGHT at the end of the fastfall and the ground, do you notice this is when the shine seems to be double layered compared to usual?

Maybe that is an indicator of it going to trip if it hits?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

If it is double layed it's too fast for me too notice even on 1/4 motion.

I take back what I said about it always tripping. I tried it on a few other characters and on the larger ones the trip will also happen when timed right when jumping up and when timed right when there is no fastfall. So I think that the reflector will only trip, if the main body of the attack (the reflector device itself not the blue sparks) makes contact with some area around the head of the character your trying to trip. So the reason why it seems to trip so much easier on a fastfall is that the reflector moves through the other character in a downward fasion at a higher speed covering more area of the reflector to try and hit. So basically it's easier to try and trip the person on a fastfall, but requires more careful timing if your jumping up or falling without starting the fastfall.

And to prove my theory that the trip only happens when you hit a certain part of there body go to training mode and play against jigglypuff using falco. Walk up to jigglypuff so the reflector will hit jiggypuff half way it's total distance to be hit. When jigglypuff is just standing it bops up and down. When it bops up and it's feet are off the ground and almost straight not curved on the way up use the shine. It'll trip it.

 

[Fluke]

You do know how much I will love you if you could find a 100% trip rate technique. (Don't worry, nothing gay involved)

For those uninformed:
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=192153


I will update it wilth new stuff we now know. (I haven't tested anything, let alone touched my wii since last update)

So I'm not 100% sure, but I'm pretty positive, Shine reflects G&W's fish from the fishbowl.

I was doing 1v1 vs the computer when he used fishbowl. I shined and I just tapped the fish with the end of my reflector (the part that doesn't even hit opponents) and G&W somehow got hit.

Anyone tested this?

 

[Fluke]

Hi guys, if you haven't noticed already, I updated this guide yesterday.


Please Rate this Thread!!!
It’s a shame that not many people on smashboards rate threads. I believe this thread should be stickied, for the amount of time I have spent making this, AND that the information shown here would be a great guide to all falcos, new or old. I’m hoping if people rate this thread, then the mods would see the importance of this and might sticky it. Thanks!





But wait! There is more to come.

- Renamed “Description of the Shine” to “Falco’s Shine: An Overview” and added its sub-categories.
- Expanded on Shine Properties and also added “Tripping Properties”.

I spent 1.5hours USING FALCO's SHINE A HELL LOT TODAY to test some stuff. Stuff meaning exactly what percent EACH CHARACTER TRIPS AT. (From 0% to XXX%). I have other observations to share, so keep watch on this thread.


But more importantly "Please RATE this thread" It only involves three clicks:

Click "Rating: ******"
Click "Excellent ******"
Click "Vote now"

Many thanks again.

 

[Kitamerby]

Interesting thread.

Just so you know Lucarios over B move can also be shined from a distance and hit Lucario. Apparently it's considered a projectile.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. Lucario's Force Palm Flame is indeed considered an energy projectile, and while Ness and Lucas can absorb it, and Mr. Game & Watch can bucket it, it CANNOT be reflected back to hit Lucario. Try it in Training mode or Basic Brawl if you'd like. Position Lucario out of the Shine's hitbox range and have him time a Force Palm while the Reflector overlaps the hitbox. You'll get a bright flash, but nothing more. Lucario will complete the animation as normal and take no extra damage. Lucario's Force Palm Flame is unable to be reflected due to two main properties: The first reason is that it's a STATIONARY projectile, which means it has no trajectory to reflect! The second reason (the biggie!) is that it's only out for a single frame, despite the animation! There is no time in that one frame of life for it to be reflected back at Lucario.

Now, know that it WILL actually NEGATE the projectile, as can be seen if you time it perfectly so that Falco's hitbox is overlapping the flame as he lets loose his reflector, since Falco will be just dandy while the Flame's cooldown animation stays put (overlapping Falco) as Lucario reels backwards from the shine hit, but there is absolutely no extra damage or knockback for Lucario.

Anyways, please remove the part about Lucario's Force Palm Flame being reflected, or change it to something along the lines of "Will negate, but Lucario will not be harmed by his own attack."


Oh, and just a note for your section on Lucario's Double Team: While it is true that the absolute MAX distance for the shine outranges Double Team's teleporting hitbox (anything less though, and you're toast), Lucario can instead reverse the Double Team and appear from in front of you, instead, utilizing the many wonderful invincibility frames that DT's kick provides to get literally right next to Falco before he even can finish grabbing his Reflector again, which means a free grab or close-range hit for us! :D

Not like it matters though, as no good Lucario in his right mind (taking a match seriously) would ever use Force Palm Flame for anything other than mindgames (we've basically come to a consensus that it's about as useful as Zero Suit Samus' Fsmash), and Double Team usage should be so rare (if at all) that the above situation should probably never happen, anyways.

 

[B-Mon]

Rated the thread Excellent ^ ^
Yeah this thread tells me everything that is needed plus more.
And can you elaborate a bit on the 100% Trip rate? I would check the thread, but the word count is way over 10,000.
Like can you give it a summary?

 

[Fluke]

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. Lucario's Force Palm Flame is indeed considered an energy projectile, and while Ness and Lucas can absorb it, and Mr. Game & Watch can bucket it, it CANNOT be reflected back to hit Lucario. Try it in Training mode or Basic Brawl if you'd like. Position Lucario out of the Shine's hitbox range and have him time a Force Palm while the Reflector overlaps the hitbox. You'll get a bright flash, but nothing more. Lucario will complete the animation as normal and take no extra damage. Lucario's Force Palm Flame is unable to be reflected due to two main properties: The first reason is that it's a STATIONARY projectile, which means it has no trajectory to reflect! The second reason (the biggie!) is that it's only out for a single frame, despite the animation! There is no time in that one frame of life for it to be reflected back at Lucario.

Now, know that it WILL actually NEGATE the projectile, as can be seen if you time it perfectly so that Falco's hitbox is overlapping the flame as he lets loose his reflector, since Falco will be just dandy while the Flame's cooldown animation stays put (overlapping Falco) as Lucario reels backwards from the shine hit, but there is absolutely no extra damage or knockback for Lucario.

Anyways, please remove the part about Lucario's Force Palm Flame being reflected, or change it to something along the lines of "Will negate, but Lucario will not be harmed by his own attack."


Oh, and just a note for your section on Lucario's Double Team: While it is true that the absolute MAX distance for the shine outranges Double Team's teleporting hitbox (anything less though, and you're toast), Lucario can instead reverse the Double Team and appear from in front of you, instead, utilizing the many wonderful invincibility frames that DT's kick provides to get literally right next to Falco before he even can finish grabbing his Reflector again, which means a free grab or close-range hit for us! :D

Not like it matters though, as no good Lucario in his right mind (taking a match seriously) would ever use Force Palm Flame for anything other than mindgames (we've basically come to a consensus that it's about as useful as Zero Suit Samus' Fsmash), and Double Team usage should be so rare (if at all) that the above situation should probably never happen, anyways.

Thankyou for all the clarification. I will amend it in the next update. It is my fault for not testing that myself first, before I have put it in. Luckily, you were here to clear it up. I had tested it myself after I read your post, and what you say is true. (If anyone would know best about lucario's side b, it would be the obviously be the lucario mainers)

Rated the thread Excellent ^ ^
Yeah this thread tells me everything that is needed plus more.
And can you elaborate a bit on the 100% Trip rate? I would check the thread, but the word count is way over 10,000.
Like can you give it a summary?

First of all thanks, for rating the thread. The fact that it is atm only 4/5 stars overall indicates that there much room for improvement for this guide.


The 100% trip rate of the shine is hypothesising the conditions which will ALWAYS make the opponent trip when hit (as long as they are within possible tripping %-expanding on this in next update)

However I believe it is simply a set chance no matter what, when the opponent is standing, only slightly higher on possible instances (but never 100%). If there was a way, it would be ground breaking as successful as Diddy's Bananas, especially you do not have to waste time to take the bananas out, and all the other benefits from the properties of the shine.

Yet, some of the possible cases to increase chance/make it 100% follow:
- Double Shining
- FF Double Shining
- Shining the opponent in the landing animation
- Hitting specific "tripping" hitboxes of the character
- Hitting with specific part of the shine (at the max range, at 2/3 range)
- Shining a person who is still in the tripped state
- Shining a person who just got up from a trip

If anyone has the time to test any of these, or bring up any other cases, feel free to help.




And also, should I add the damage percent range for tripping to occur to each character in the "3.3 Falco’s Shine vs Character Movesets List", OR create a sepatate one.

 

[Drakuaza]

voted for it, stick please

 

[Fluke]

I didn't have much time to update it this week, so I'll just post the main part which I promised to release very soon.


Trip %. (The figure stated is the highest damage that the character WILL TRIP FROM STANDING POSITION)

Bowser

122%

Captain Falcon

112%

Diddy Kong

106%

Donkey Kong

120%*

Falco

100%

Fox

96%

Game and Watch

96%

Ganondorf

115%

Ice Climbers

105%

Ike

113%

Jigglypuff

91%

King Dedede

117%

Kirby

97%

Link

112%

Lucario

110%

Lucas

107%


Luigi

108%

Mario

109%

Marth

105%

Meta Knight

98%

Ness

107%

Olimar

100%

Peach

104%

Pikachu

98%

Pit

107%

Pokémon Trainer

Charizard

116%
Squirtle

96%
Ivysaur

110%

R.O.B.

114%

Samus

115%

Shiek

101%

Snake

118%

Sonic

107%

Toon Link

105%

Wario

114%

Wolf

111%

Yoshi

114%

Zelda

101%

Zero Suit Samus

99%

 

[HMD]

Im going to use my reflector more

 

[LAWZ]

wow that' really gonna help my Falco game....I never really used his reflector before...and I think that was one of my biggest flaws...

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Cool thread thank you, this is very helpful.

 

[Llumys]

Thanks for the guide.