All Things Shiny Here. Everything about Falco's Shine/Reflector [Updated 24th Nov]

[Finshu]

Just tried out the shine on Diddy's bananas. It does change the possession of the banana to make him trip over it. Though I'm finding the shine doesn't actually hit the banana if it's already on the ground, though I haven't experimented too intensively. Anyways, nice guide on the shine you got here, good information.

 

[Fluke]

Just tried out the shine on Diddy's bananas. It does change the possession of the banana to make him trip over it. Though I'm finding the shine doesn't actually hit the banana if it's already on the ground, though I haven't experimented too intensively. Anyways, nice guide on the shine you got here, good information.

Thank you!

Shine>Bananas now. No dash attack pick up banana and throw from diddy, shine stops both attacks :D

 

[EnTragic]

Great Analysis... I will put this to good use

 

[Fluke]

Glad this has helped.

Once Australia gets brawl, I hope I can find out some stuff myself.


If you like it, rate it out of stars (5!)

 

[Wolfang]

If you don't mind, add that you can also reflect the Pikmin throw (and you didnt add bananas!)

 

[Fluke]

When you say that, I assume you can reflect all types regardless (even the deadly purple one!?)

Yeah I had assignments left right and centre this week, so haven't updated it yet. I will now, after I go eat.

Updated. Added some colour to make it look more organised and "guide" like.

 

[matthewmilad]

The Shine. aka Reflector. Even more special for Falco.


-Cannot be reflected


Hmmm that's funny. Pretty sure Wolf can reflect it. Go try it.

 

[Hawks go Caw]

When you say that, I assume you can reflect all types regardless (even the deadly purple one!?)

Yeah I had assignments left right and centre this week, so haven't updated it yet. I will now, after I go eat.

Updated. Added some colour to make it look more organised and "guide" like.

You can reflect pretty much anything thrown at you, even the purple pikmin. But if Olimar doesn't throw it and just uses it to attack, such as f-air, it doesn't get reflected. It just gets painful.

And when Falco gets hit while reflecting, the reflector gets "cancelled." It doesn't continue on its path; it just grows huge and stalls.

And more on Zelda's exploding fireball thing (I never learned what it was called), if you use the reflector right before it hits Falco, it'll explode but Falco won't take any damage, even if the explosion occurs on Falco.

 

[NeroeXIII]

I've noticed something about Falco's Reflector. If you reflect something and that PLUS the reflector hits. It will have a very good amount of knockback. I discovered this when I used shine on a pikachu who used Thunder. The knockback killed Pikachu, and it was onylat 120%-ish. I'm fairly certain this is not old, or found already. Test this for me please?

 

[RazeveX]

I've noticed something about Falco's Reflector. If you reflect something and that PLUS the reflector hits. It will have a very good amount of knockback. I discovered this when I used shine on a pikachu who used Thunder. The knockback killed Pikachu, and it was onylat 120%-ish. I'm fairly certain this is not old, or found already. Test this for me please?

wasnt it just the thunder hitting pikachu after you shined him/her/it?

 

[NeroeXIII]

wasnt it just the thunder hitting pikachu after you shined him/her/it?

I can't be sure, but from what I know. You cannot reflect Thunder.

-I went back to test and Fox's reflector does NOT reflect thunder.
-I once hit both Pikachu and the thunder at diffrent times. Still did a good amoutn of knockback.
-I once hit pikachu's little bolts and hit it/him/her and still did a good amount of knockback.

 

[RazeveX]

I can't be sure, but from what I know. You cannot reflect Thunder.

-I went back to test and Fox's reflector does NOT reflect thunder.
-I once hit both Pikachu and the thunder at diffrent times. Still did a good amoutn of knockback.
-I once hit pikachu's little bolts and hit it/him/her and still did a good amount of knockback.

you can reflect thunder easy. Not in 64 i think, but in melee and brawl you can. I know because my brother always used to spam down b as pikachu, and i'd just reflect it at him

 

[Wolfang]

I can't be sure, but from what I know. You cannot reflect Thunder.

-I went back to test and Fox's reflector does NOT reflect thunder.
-I once hit both Pikachu and the thunder at diffrent times. Still did a good amoutn of knockback.
-I once hit pikachu's little bolts and hit it/him/her and still did a good amount of knockback.

Maybe your right, you can't reflect Thunder with Fox, but this thread is for the reflector in relation to Falco, which defiantly can do so.

 

[blackcat13]

if it helps u can ledge hop shine whenever the opponent gets to close or spams projectiles. while on the ledge press down then press jump and down-b instantly after pressing down(or u'll die). it has to be done quick. also if u do right itll be like a backwards crescent moon that reflects projectiles. he also holds it in his hand for a split second after kicking it out. and even in that time it still reflects but doesnt hit the opponent

 

[Wolfang]

Just a little more info about the reflector with Snake's C4 or tripmines (couldn't tell at the time), but you can brush your reflector over it to blow it up forehand. Probably already known, but just in case.

 

[PK-ow!]

The nature of Falco's shine seems graspable to me.

It's a move - with a hitbox - that exists at range from Falco, but is a melee attack, in that it hits as a melee weapon. You're creating a "striker" (to borrow a term from other gaming platforms), in a sense.

This explains all so-called 'strangeness'. The shine can no more be reflected or eaten than can Ness' yo-yo. Lucario counters the reflector because it is indeed the reflector which attacked him.

 

[Zombie-Hero]

I'm new to Falco. I do well with using the shine as a 'clear-out' move, but beyond using the side+b, my follow-up needs work. Does anyone have suggestions on followups if the opponent trips?

 

[Blad01]

Some little things :

* The reflector can be reflected by a few moves : By Snake's third AAA hit by example.

* It does cover behind at the very begining and at the end.

I added this thread to the sticky (:D) compilation of interesting links.

[EDIT : Oh, and i also rated this thread 4/5]

 

[Blad01]

Could someone verify this please ? :

-Can reflect projectiles:
Increases the damage (Guessing 1.3 multiplier), same speed

 

[Fluke]

Haha thanks for reviving my thread, I thought it died, only glancing at the smashboards every now and then since I am playing MKWii/exams (since I am still waiting for brawl -> June 27th).


I'll update the thread once I finish exams.


About the multiplier, well there is DEFINITELY an increase (Saw in a falco ditto video where the reflected blaster did more damage than normal, even though it had reduced dmg due to spamming- the video is in this thread somewhere)

 

[Kamano]

Could someone verify this please ? :

I believe it does 2.0x damage, actually


going by this clip of mine (don't mind the editing and crap, it still proves a point for the damage ratio):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENSPBlKUcSU

Hylian was at 62%, then got hit by the reflected full charged shot and took 40%, putting him at 102.

And if I'm not entirely mistaken a fully charged shot from Samus' beam is normally 20%.

 

[0RLY]

The fully charged beam does 25%.

WHY IS SAMUS THE ONLY CHAR THAT CANNOT CHARGE HER SPECIAL IN MIDAIR?

 

[Doval]

And if I'm not mistaken a fully charged shot from Samus' beam is normally 20%.

Samus's charged Charge Shot does 25%. I haven't tested Falco's but the vast majority of all reflectors increase the % by x1.5, and 25 * 1.5 = 37.5%.

 

[Kamano]

Samus's charged Charge Shot does 25%. I haven't tested Falco's but the vast majority of all reflectors increase the % by x1.5, and 25 * 1.5 = 37.5%.

Hmm, my mistake on the damage done, however, 37.5% != the 40% that was obviously inflicted from the hit.

 

[Blad01]

I guess it's x1,6

And what about the speed ? Does the reflector increase that too ?

[EDIT :

Ok, i checked it out. Shine properties we can be sure of :

# Increase damages x1,5 (Samus Full Charged Beam > 37%)
# Covers back at the beginning and at the end

]

 

[Lord Aether]

I was gonna say, since a fully charged Link arrow did 18% back when a fully charged Link arrow does 12%.

 

[nonamedn00b]

Ive noticed that if you keep tapping B after the shine comes back it will actually stat out and keep kicking out repeatedly which i realized as toon link was shooting arrows and fox was shooting his lasers. it stays out but it doesn't stay away from you it just repeats the animation

 

[Fluke]

I believe it does 2.0x damage, actually


going by this clip of mine (don't mind the editing and crap, it still proves a point for the damage ratio):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENSPBlKUcSU

Hylian was at 62%, then got hit by the reflected full charged shot and took 40%, putting him at 102.

And if I'm not entirely mistaken a fully charged shot from Samus' beam is normally 20%.

Despite the slight error, thanks for the video proof.

Even supports:

if it helps u can ledge hop shine whenever the opponent gets to close or spams projectiles. while on the ledge press down then press jump and down-b instantly after pressing down(or u'll die). it has to be done quick. also if u do right itll be like a backwards crescent moon that reflects projectiles. he also holds it in his hand for a split second after kicking it out. and even in that time it still reflects but doesnt hit the opponent

With my maths, the damage multiple for samsus shot was 1.6
However the one about the toon link's arrow, it is only 1.5 (you sure it was fully charged? maybe damager reduction due to spamming?)

Someone needs to test in training mode, while I am still in the dark with only MKWii.

Ive noticed that if you keep tapping B after the shine comes back it will actually stat out and keep kicking out repeatedly which i realized as toon link was shooting arrows and fox was shooting his lasers. it stays out but it doesn't stay away from you it just repeats the animation

You're saying that he keep kicking it out, skipping the time it takes for him to put it back on his waist? That's would be good, you stop persistent fox laser spammers (since no knockback) and in case you miss the first one and they are trying to punish you in a frontal attack.



I'm pretty sure the speed of the projectile is the same, as it would be very unbalanced if you get a speed boost + the reduced distance the projectile needs to travel back.
(what i mean is, in the samus video, if you were fox, you would see the thing travel longer since it needs to reach the actually fox to reflect back. However the distance the shine travels reduces that distance, thus it is a lot "faster")

If I had time, I would use some nerd talk involving physics, but it's the morning of my chemistry exam so I gtg study for that.



On the stuff on page four.
C4 exploding: I will add that. I didn't know.
It CAN be reflected? List of moves including snake's AAA? I remember there was a video on that somewhere, I get it later.
Cover's falco back in beginning and end (so it reflects, but does it "hit")

The pikachu's thunder issue? I'm talking about DOWN B here. Not standard b or any of his electrical smashes.

Any video proof? I'm confused as well. Are you reflecting the electricity BETWEEN the "cloud" and pikachu, if so, does it still continue down, HITTING pikachu, or does it jsut reflect upwards, kinda just neutralising the attack. OR are you REFLECTING pikachu, and the thunder which is ON his body gets reflected onto him. Maybe even a bit of both cases work?

 

[hurricane22491]

I know for sure that you can reflect the thunderbolt from the cloud and it will come down and hit Pikachu for damage.

 

[Ratherion]

I'm not quite sure if this works, just hypothesising.

When you use the shine while falling, it also falls at a downward velocity, correct?

So, two questions: is it effected by terrain if it hits the ground as it moves down?
-And if so could you use it to contact the edge and or people holding on to it/recovering?

 

[Blad01]

So, two questions: is it effected by terrain if it hits the ground as it moves down?

The Shine is not effected by terrain if it hits the ground. However, it stops if YOU touch the ground.

-And if so could you use it to contact the edge and or people holding on to it/recovering?

No, because yout touch the ground :/ That would be a nice use ^^

 

[Fluke]

Okay, I have a maths exam tomorrow, but I reckon I could fit 15min worth of revising this guide before so much info fall on me to update at once. That was reason one. The second reason is that I just have to add that if I am giving credit to people here, I'm not saying they are ones who truly first discovered it (giving them fame + right to name it), but I'm saying they are credited for bringing it up and sharing it.


I just read my thread. I lol'ed at my "Is is really useless? What can it do?".

I'm surprised it has deserved five stars so far. And thanks for linking my thread to the sticky Blad01 (P.S for some strange reason I keep reading it as Blade1).

I'll get back to you guys shortly.




And also, is there a way to make the tickbox "show signature" already ticked in quickreply?

 

[Fluke]

It's updated, but I had to rush since it took longer than expected (reading between tags like [b ] and the like)

So it has some errors I need to smooth out, and later read the only thread again to see if I'm missing any info.


Off to dee-why-dee-ex (calculus)

 

[Ratherion]

So, interesting thing, not sure if you guys know about it/use it but I haven't seen it anywhere, and it's just a little shine trick.

Because the reflector isn't affected by terrain, it's an exellent pseudo-ledgehop mindgame.

Drop from the ledge and double jump after you fall for about one character height, then shine. The shine will travel upwards through the stage and hit people who are standing a good distance from the edge, usefull against Wolfs with their rediculous range.

Maybe it's not quite as usefull as DL, but if you're becoming predicatble anything is good.

 

[Fluke]

- Recovery move from the edge. Press down, immediately jump and shine. Firebird back to the edge if needed. [blackcat13] I don’t know if you can do it fast enough to regrab the ledge

Yeah, I put that up already. There's even a video of it (top of page 5 of this thread).

Can you do it fast enough to regrab the ledge without needing to firebird back up?

 

[Blad01]

It's actually x1,5, not x1,6. Look at my last post

 

[Fluke]

It's actually x1,5, not x1,6. Look at my last post

Ah, okay thanks. Changing it now.

Edit:

Woah. I spiced up the thread a bit more (colours/colors!) to try to highlight the key points. And may it look more refined at first glance. I hope the colour scheme is okay. I think the blue and sometimes red is too contrasting to the eyes.

Tell me what you think.


P.S It's friggin' 1400 words including all the format tags!. More than my essays!

 

[Ratherion]

Can you do it fast enough to regrab the ledge without needing to firebird back up?

Yes, but as a result you have to shine later, moving you above stage level, thus more vunerable.

I made a big fat thread about attacks that cause tripping and I'm convinced this is not true.

Falco's reflector causes tripping COMPLETELY RANDOMLY (with about a 50% trip rate), regardless of how the reflector hits them. It doesn't matter if he gets them with the tip, with the middle, with the start, with the end, going up, fastfalling, it's all the same.

I've been testing Sweeping extensively, and it seems that damage, momentum and chance aren't actually factors of tripping with Sweeping attacks (most down strongs and Falco's Shine). It in fact seems to be a certain distance.

I've tested this at every single percentage from 1-120, and been able to make the enemy trip about ten times at each percent in a row. So if it is random I'm extremely lucky

The sweetspot that causes the trip on the shine seems to be just before the apex of its momentum, there is a flash of light, which if it flashes while the shine hits the enemy, causes them to trip.

If anyone could try this out and confirm it, that would be most exellent.

 

[Fluke]

Yes, but as a result you have to shine later, moving you above stage level, thus more vunerable.



I've been testing Sweeping extensively, and it seems that damage, momentum and chance aren't actually factors of tripping with Sweeping attacks (most down strongs and Falco's Shine). It in fact seems to be a certain distance.

I've tested this at every single percentage from 1-120, and been able to make the enemy trip about ten times at each percent in a row. So if it is random I'm extremeluy lucky

The sweetspot that causes the trip on the shine seems to be just before the apex of its momentum, there is a flash of light, which if it flashes while the shine hits the enemy, causes them to trip.

If anyone could try this out and confirm it, that would be most exellent.

Hmm for the ledge shine..I see.


About how it trips, that is what someone said before as well, how it is best at the end of the shine going out. But then mugwhump said not.

Extensive testing? That would be great.

 

[Ratherion]

I just finished testing it with other sweeping moves, and I'm more and more convinced that it is in fact a spacing thing. I lack an SD card however, so... I'll ask my friend if he can help me get a vid of some shine-tripping distances.

About how it trips, that is what someone said before as well, how it is best at the end of the shine going out. But then mugwhump said not.

i have learned that right after a shorthop if directly in front of an enemy and the enemy is either a tall character or is airborn (shff dair, and one of the best starters ive noticed is the dgrab, it should be used fast and strategic so that they wont think to di right away) then if the reflector is connected while rising right where it seems that he is hitting with the shine and the kick that sent it out, u will get a trip **** near every time(i counted 9 trips in a row)

I believe what he's talking about is how both the d-air and d-throw at low percentages stick the enemy right into the tripping zone, as does the shine after a jab-spin in most occasions.