All Things Shiny Here. Everything about Falco's Shine/Reflector [Updated 24th Nov]

[Fluke]

Well if you CAN force the trip....then psudeo shine combo time!? :D

 

[Ratherion]

Well I just tripped a lvl 9 cp all the way across BF. And they're kinda rediculous at DI/Teching. So... Woot?

Well he did keep using the attack to get up, that may attribute to it.

 

[nonamedn00b]

If you really want to be mean with the shine and trick your opponent. Run towards them like youre going to dash attack or something then press down immediately and shine, it can be hard to pull off because if your near the edge and don't press down well enough you might illusion right off the stage, but your opponent never really guesses that you doing it.

 

[Ratherion]

I can really feel that there's a property to it that we're missing, but I just can't seem to dig it up. So I'm going to make a bunch of theories and test them all, seeing which, if any, work.

1. Is the priority on the shine good?

2. Do the properties of the shine change after it reflects/hits an enemy?

3. Can the shine be used to increase the chances of making an opponent trip in the air? Or is that just a major glich?

4. Can the shine be used to modify momentum?

5. Does the spark part of the shine (the part that I mentioned earlier might be the sweetspot that causes people to trip) have any other special properties? [Increased damage reflection? Increased Projectile Speed? Increased Damage? Less lag if you hit with it?]

6. Ooo... this is probably a no, but I don't see a point in not trying. You couldn't do it in melee but for some odd reason they might have added it. Does initating the shine in the middle of other attacks cancel them? [Firebird specifically?] No.

7. Does reflecting multiple projectiles change the way the projectiles are reflected?

8. Is it possilble to angle a reflected projectile if you jump or fall and use the shine?

9. Does reflecting with the second [no damage] part of the shine change the properties of the reflection?

10. Does the shine continue to reflect after you've been hit in the animation? Until it dies? - Confirmed.


11. I think this may be the most important. After watching the Mortar Slide intensely, I'm curious if it can be replicated with the shine. Anything from dash attack to cancelled Phantasm to bounced Fire Bird, can you shine out of them with increased forward momentum?

12. Can the U-smash in gatling be replaced with a shine? No.

13. Is it possible to pivot shine?

-Will add more in the future.

 

[Emperor Time]

I can answer 10. Yes.

 

[Fluke]

Hmm nice questions:

1. High, prevents many many attacks.
2. Doubt it
3. Spend 15min shining a person without him dying then jumping around and check? I really doubt air tripping is even meant to occur.
4. I think not, as it more like your momentum affects the shine.
5. It is very possible for this part to do something nice. Like a tipper in marth's sword.
6. --
7. I haven't even seen a video of falco reflecting a curved pit's arrow D:
8. Likewise, I haven't seen many projectile reflects myself (not may people post video of vsing campers.
9. Good question, I dunno.
10. ---
11. Not really sure what the mortar slide is. Snake's dash-> upsamsh? If so, then I don't think it can be done with any b attacks, only upsmash.
12. --
13. Quickly pivot then shine? Or pivot during shine? I think the first one is possible, don't think so for latter.

 

[Blad01]

8. No for horizontal projectiles (Charge Beam, Samus Big missile, Lasers, Bow...)
But it seems that it can reflect differently Samus' little missile.

 

[Ratherion]

Blargh... Lots of testing has been done. Or homework >>

Air tripping = Complete and total glich, IMO, 10 minutes of shining at 1.5x speed doesn't produce anything.

Projectiles will inverse the angle that they are currently traveling when hitting a shine, so mobile-trajectory projectile [Samus >B, Snake's >B, thrown items] will flip perfectly if they hit the shine at a non-horizontal angle.

 

[matthewmilad]

Blargh... Lots of testing has been done. Or homework >>

Air tripping = Complete and total glich, IMO, 10 minutes of shining at 1.5x speed doesn't produce anything.

Projectiles will inverse the angle that they are currently traveling when hitting a shine, so mobile-trajectory projectile [Samus >B, Snake's >B, thrown items] will flip perfectly if they hit the shine at a non-horizontal angle.

I hate how people are still talking about air tripping....
Note how the only claims on this are from the character Sonic. I've been told that Peach's float cancelling has been brought up with air tripping as well.
My theory with Sonic is that it is a glitch that since he is running so fast, if he jumps off the edge right as he is about to trip, then he jumps into a trip, thus an "air trip".
Peach either is not right, OR floating counts as running.
Weird, I know, but those are my theories, and I'm pretty sure I'm right.

 

[nonamedn00b]

I agree. It feels like we are missing something and yet I think we have covered everything. And you especially should considering all the testing you do. If there is something it will show eventually any way, no point actually looking for it.
Its only going to make it harder to find.
Besides Matthewmilad the chances that you would be tripping right as your running of the edge with sonic would seem infinitesimal since the chances of you running of the edge is small and the chances of you tripping are small. 0.01x0.01=0.0001(Just an example)

 

[hurricane22491]

My theory with Sonic is that it is a glitch that since he is running so fast, if he jumps off the edge right as he is about to trip, then he jumps into a trip, thus an "air trip".

Actually, AFAIK Sonic only airtrips because if you use up-B (the spring) and land at the very peak, meaning you don't grab an edge, you don't move downwards, and you don't go into the "air trip" fall, you will "air trip" the next time you jump, no matter where you are.

Here's the video; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSOiGOvTzws
I've tested it personally and found it to be true.

Peach air tripping probably is similar to that except involving her floating or something. I'm not sure about that though.

 

[BEES]

I think the reason you can't do anything to speed up the shine or cancel it into anything is that it has a beginning and ending animation that are fixed points.

So here's my question, are there any tiny frames during the course of the attack where you might be free to do a quick move? Say, walk forward a bit to end it faster, or jab.

 

[matthewmilad]

I agree. It feels like we are missing something and yet I think we have covered everything. And you especially should considering all the testing you do. If there is something it will show eventually any way, no point actually looking for it.
Its only going to make it harder to find.
Besides Matthewmilad the chances that you would be tripping right as your running of the edge with sonic would seem infinitesimal since the chances of you running of the edge is small and the chances of you tripping are small. 0.01x0.01=0.0001(Just an example)

I dunno man. Your example probabilities both seem really small. Pretty sure trip is a good bit more than that. And also, with Sonic, you actually run off the edge a lot to go chase the opponent and f-air them further away. So I think the odds are just about how often we have seen this happen to Sonic. Only 2 documented videos too am I right?


Edit: Lol this guy wins:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSOiGOvTzws

 

[Ratherion]

I think the reason you can't do anything to speed up the shine or cancel it into anything is that it has a beginning and ending animation that are fixed points.

So here's my question, are there any tiny frames during the course of the attack where you might be free to do a quick move? Say, walk forward a bit to end it faster, or jab.

That is a good one. I'll go look.

 

[Blad01]

Oh, and i think that one day we will have to make a list off all the attacks who can reflect the shine...

That could help our opponents, though. ^^

 

[Ratherion]

Oh, and i think that one day we will have to make a list off all the attacks who can reflect the shine...

That could help our opponents, though. ^^

Ugh, played my friend's Wolf today, and apparently his F-smash can.

Though Shine destroys Wolf, no question, because he has no approach that it can't counter. Just FYI.

So here's my question, are there any tiny frames during the course of the attack where you might be free to do a quick move? Say, walk forward a bit to end it faster, or jab.

The shine always travels a set distance away from Falco and always takes the same amount of time to get back, maybe there's some way to do something during the shine? That would be amazing.

 

[The Idealist]

interesting stuff i guess, unfortunatly nothing i didnt know already...

 

[Mista Sinista]

- Recovery move from the edge. Press down, immediately jump and shine. Firebird back to the edge if needed. [blackcat13] I don’t know if you can do it fast enough to regrab the ledge

Wtf? The timing is very easy on this, I really am dumbfounded by blackcat's post.

Yes you can regrab the ledge and yes it's very easy.

 

[Ratherion]

*flop* I can't find anything.

If only Bean from Ender's Game could help me break Brawl >.>

 

[phi1ny3]

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but ROB's Side-B can reflect it back, actually hurting falco with it (I think that's the only reflector that works, though).

 

[Ratherion]

Orly? This is new to me.

 

[Fluke]

Wtf? The timing is very easy on this, I really am dumbfounded by blackcat's post.

Yes you can regrab the ledge and yes it's very easy.

Hmm the italics are MY comments. ><"

Don't blame him.

However, thankyou for saying that you can.

 

[Ratherion]

You can totally reflect Lucario's Force Palm, just FYI.

Which also means G&W can bucket it >.>

 

[Heevar_Lewlson]

You can totally reflect Lucario's Force Palm, just FYI.

Which also means G&W can bucket it >.>

Yeah, you can also PSI Magnet it. You can't PSI Magnet his F-smash though, which I found out in a very painful way

 

[Blad01]

Hum, maybe everybody with a strong kick can reflect it...

To verify :

*ZSS F-Tilt
*Samus F-Tilt
*Ness and Lucas F-Smash (they reflect Pk Fire)
*C.Falcon F-Tilt
*Ganondorf F-Tilt (that wouldn't surprise me...)
*...

 

[Ratherion]

The last hit of snake's AAA combo.

 

[Fluke]

Yes! I finally have the freaking game!

Unlock Falco: Check (First thing I did)

When I'm through when playing all the new content, I start extensively testing the stuff I put there before.
(ie, is there really a dead spot in the shine? If you are both standing and right against them, it still hits, maybe if you like just above them and touching? eg. A bit too high/low?

 

[Ratherion]

Remember Jigg's Rest range from Melee? That's about the deadspot.

 

[SlashTalon]

You CAN reflect:

Din's Fire

Snake's Mortar (His upsmash)

ROB's grounded Top

PK Freeze/Flash

IC's Blizzard

Pika's Thunder

 

[chaos_Leader]

I don't think this has been mentioned:

When Falco throws the shine into Peach's toad counter, The toad counter backfires, hurting Peach. I found this out on accident on Wifi and tested it to be sure. It doesn't reflect the toad counter, I've tried with other reflecting-types and they still get blasted by toad. I will get footage if I can, but it's easy enough to do on your own.

 

[Seison]

^^^^^^ lol, I just came into this thread to post that exact thing. It blows peach back pretty far too, it's nice. I haven't really done any testing or anything on the damage or what exactly is going on. I just know it works.

 

[Hawks go Caw]

More on Zelda (because that's all my friend ever uses):

Din's fire doesn't explode on contact with the reflector, so it can travel through the reflector and through Falco and explode behind Falco causing big hurt.

 

[SlashTalon]

if youre close enough to Zelda the Dins fire gets reflected and hurts her.

You can also spotdodge/Bair to cancel the fire if youre in the air.

 

[Fluke]

Wow, I have some updating to do.

Hmm, there have been tons of times today where the attack goes through my shine, so we both get hit. To bad they all happened when I was completing events that you can't save replays from.

Tends to happen a lot against Ness, I might test later.

 

[J4pu]

Can somebody explain the properties of shining Snake's grenades.
Almost every time I shine them they explode, but I think (can't remember specifically) I have reflected them before. Does it have something to do with whether Snake dropped them first or if they are stationary or whatnot?
if this was in the thread can you just repost plz, i don't want to read 6 pages.

 

[Fluke]

Can somebody explain the properties of shining Snake's grenades.
Almost every time I shine them they explode, but I think (can't remember specifically) I have reflected them before. Does it have something to do with whether Snake dropped them first or if they are stationary or whatnot?
if this was in the thread can you just repost plz, i don't want to read 6 pages.

What it means is that is does explode them beforehand. I don't recalled reflecting one on the ground, yet to try one in the air.

 

[hurricane22491]

It might be because the Snake player let the time on the grenade run down a little so it would explode when it gets close, and you just happened to shine at the same time it was going to explode. Otherwise, they reflect just like any other thrown projectile.

You can reflect them in the air the same way, but if they are on the ground you can't really do anything with it using the shine.

 

[PK-ow!]

I don't think this has been mentioned:

When Falco throws the shine into Peach's toad counter, The toad counter backfires, hurting Peach. I found this out on accident on Wifi and tested it to be sure. It doesn't reflect the toad counter, I've tried with other reflecting-types and they still get blasted by toad. I will get footage if I can, but it's easy enough to do on your own.

Maybe Toad creates a melee hitbox for a few frames, then the spores come out.

Falco's shine triggers Toad, the spors are reflected.

Other reflectors put the user in range of the melee hit, thus ending the reflector before the spores come.

. . . maybe.

 

[Ulevo]

Ooh, shiny!

I like the guide, by the way. * Subscribes *

 

[Fluke]

I just got snapped by my reflector being reflected by Marth's Fmash. Not sure if it had to be a tipper or whatnot though.

I'll update this once holidays start for me (which is very very soon)