All Characters Match-up Chart (9/07 update)

[tarheeljks]

yes, yes , i know the whole left brain, right brain bit, but if that's the best you've got you are reaching.

edit: for those who don't know being left/handed or right handed affects the way you process information. right handed (left brained) people tend to process info in a linear fashion, that is processing from parts to the whole (logical/deductive analysis). left handed people tend to use holistic processing which operates in the reverse (whole to part). which side of your brain you use affects how you process info, which affects how you learn/improve etc.

here's a site to test, which side you use if you are interested. if you're right handed you would expect to be left brained, but this test also tries to give an idea of how much more you use one than the other. for example, i'm left handed, but i happen to write with my right hand. so i wasn't surprised that i got 11 right brain pts and 8 left brain pts.

click the hemispehric dominance link to take the test. it's short, only 19 questions and each question has two choices.
http://www.mtsu.edu/~studskl/hd/learn.html

 

[Johnknight1]

Actually I thrive and try my hardest to be unlike any other player with most characters, and I try using it, without taking out, or limiting my skills. I also am left handed, but I use a mouse with my right hand, and do a ton of things with my right hand.

Lol, allbert einstein, da vinci, and picasso were all left handed, as well as our 3 last US presidents before our current president. I just looked that up, very intresting, never would have guessed that.

Anyways, my legs are ambidextrous, and I am ambidextrous with the Wiimote. I find all this to be odd, when most people with the Wiimote only use one hand. I try analzing how I play then look for my patterns, and try to stop any predictable pattern, except winning ones, or ones I'm doing purposely.

Other than that, the only patterns I don't stop are my dodging patterns, which I utilize to defeat weaker opponents. Dodging, grabs, combos, and patterns are generally the area that seperate the great players from the average players.

 

[Rohins]

Dodging patterns? As in you will do the same thing when reacting to certain moves? Clarify how this isn't playing poorly.

On topic :

I think the Samus vs Sheik matchup should be 3. Samus vs C. Falcon is 3 and I feel that is accurate, but I believe that Sheik is a bigger Samus counter than C.F. Needles **** Samus' recovery, go through her charge blasts & missiles, and make for an easy approach (SH needles).

edit:

Yeah I meant missiles, thanks.

 

[Zankoku]

Dodging patterns? As in you will do the same thing when reacting to certain moves? Clarify how this isn't playing poorly.

On topic :

I think the Samus vs Sheik matchup should be 3. Samus vs C. Falcon is 3 and I feel that is accurate, but I believe that Sheik is a bigger Samus counter than C.F. Needles **** Samus' recovery, go through her charge blasts & needles, and make for an easy approach (SH needles).

I do hope you mean that Sheik's needles cancel out MISSILES. Samus has enough projectiles as it is, and I'd rather not let her add needles to that arsenal.

Reacting to certain moves in the same way makes you predictable. Being predictable makes your habits exploitable. Being exploitable means you can be punished by fakeouts to draw out predictable reactions.

Samus seems about right at 3-7. Remember, though projectiles may be a big part of her game, she's also got her long-range high-priority aerial game, which Sheik can have a difficult time against.

 

[MaskedMarth]

I get the impression that most people consider Marth/Fox an even match and Marth/Sheik an even or 4/6 match.

 

[tarheeljks]

from whom do you get this impression?

 

[Melaf]

Hum I dont know seriously why roy cannot have a better matchup with fox...his dtilt is supossed to **** him...he should have 2 point highter

 

[thesage]

Hum I dont know seriously why roy cannot have a better matchup with fox...his dtilt is supossed to **** him...he should have 2 point highter

That's because cc'ing owns Roy.

 

[Melaf]

That's because cc'ing owns Roy.

Still if you dont do to many air attack and you stay at these basic-> outprioris his air attack and down tilt often I think roy should take care of fox more ease


Ps I LOVE THE april 1st thanks smashboard for these pikachu :0

 

[Bullet Bill]

why isn't this a sticky? Can someone please sticky this

 

[MaskedMarth]

from whom do you get this impression?

Not anybody in particular, but I've heard it before (there are one or two comments about it hiding somewhere in this thread). Mainly I wanted to see if more people agreed or disagreed. Frankly, I wouldn't be sure how to rate Marth/Fox or Marth/Sheik myself. I guess, for Marth/Fox, that I would lean towards the 5/5 hypothesis - my gut tells me Fox is too fast for Marth to suppress. But really, I'd rather that people who know what they're talking about discuss the matchups.

 

[ChozenOne]

*grows beard waiting*

 

[Taco Head]

 

[ToP CaT]

why is it still being discussed they are even (fox/marth), sheik has a slight advantage

 

[Pat/Pro]

Shiek only has a slight advantage on marth, fox has an advantage on her. This is completely true. Remember that this chart is setup to represent play of characters at their highest potential.

Marth can grab fox once and take off a stock. Fox has great shine combos and outspeeds shiek. And shiek has good grabs against marth (i.e. a grab at 0% can lead to a short lived chain grab or upsmash if DI is behind etc.). The only problem with this chart is that shieks advantage on marth is too high it should only be 1 point. Top pros will tell you that it is only a soft counter. I also question whether falco is really a counter to fox. They both can do alot of things to one another. But im ok with it being up there.

 

[ChozenOne]

Phanna.. i ask you right now... can i take over running this--> i'm on break right now, and have nothing but time. and clearly i don't think you have the time inwhich to update this shizzy.... and i'm fuxing w/ not waiting anymore *goes back and reads thread's entire-ity*

 

[ToP CaT]

someone needs to

 

[ChozenOne]

Clearly I'm fuxing w/ too much time on his hands if i can drive 14 hours to Inn5...

 

[phanna]

Phanna.. i ask you right now... can i take over running this--> i'm on break right now, and have nothing but time. and clearly i don't think you have the time inwhich to update this shizzy.... and i'm fuxing w/ not waiting anymore *goes back and reads thread's entire-ity*

Well I can update the image relatively quickly without problems, I just haven't had enough time to dedicate going through all the posts and making the proper, unbiased changes. So if you want to join up to work on this, you could make one giant post with the match-ups that should change, followed by a quote block of all the peoples' reasons you thought justified that change. For instance, here's a change that needs to be made:

Peach vs Luigi
5-4 to 6-4
Peach vs Link
4-5 to 5-5

Hey, when writing my program I ran into a little discrepency on your chart, the Link vs. Peach and Luigi vs. Peach matchups don't currently matchup. Luigi is given a 4 vs. Peach while Peach has a 5 vs. Luigi. Also Link has a 5 vs. Peach while Peach has a 4 vs. Link. Just thought you should know.

How does that sound? I prefer to do it all at once so nothing gets missed; you can find my last update here:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=2024504#post2024504

Pretty much ignore any personal conversations or blatent opinions. Be sure to give your reasoning as much weight as the posts of others. I trust your judgement.

 

[ChozenOne]

Alright then.. *pound*

/starts working to get this done by Friday...

 

[Me14k]

You should really make Marth and samus bigger peach counters. Id say 7-3 for both.

 

[thesage]

I think Ness vs. G&W should be a 6 for G&W. He does very well against Ness. Outprioritizes his fair (one of Ness' most important moves) has good edgeguarding against him. And it's hard for Ness to edgeguard him. G&W has chainthrows against Ness, and Ness has a hard time comboing G&W (but it's still possible). It's not a **** matchup, but it's definetely not easy for Ness.

Ness vs. Jigglypuff is way too in favor for jiggs. Her bair outranges his fair. Great edgegaurding against him (but then again who doesn't). Ness is one of the few people able to combo jigglypuff (fair chains anybody?). And gets easy kills with his bthrow and bair. She can also be thunder juggled for some time (but it's not as easy as Luigi or Samus).

Ness vs. Link and young link is correct in my opinion. They're easily juggled, easily edgegaurded, easily comboed. The only thing they have against him is projectile spamming, which is pretty good against Ness. The can counter combo Ness, but it's much harder for them since it's harder for them to grab. If they miss a grab then it's a free yyg for Ness (which is always a very good thing). Young Link is faster than Link and does a little better than him recovery and attack wise, but Link has better edgegaurding in this match (that annoying spinning sword spike...).

Ness vs. High tier I've heard from other Ness players that Falco is Nesses easiest high tier matchup. I have no idea about this. What I do know is that Peach and Shiek are definetely his hardest matchups with Marth in third. Fox is harder than Falco. Falco is considered easier probably since he is easier to combo with Ness (without getting grabbed) and his crap recovery. I'm not sure about the Falco thing though (I don't have much experience with him).

Edit: Ness vs. Capt. Falcon and Ness vs. IC's should be switched. Falcon is too easy to combo and IC's are just too good. I'll probably explain more later.

 

[Shai Hulud]

First of all remember that these matchup values translate to win percentages in a best 2 out of 3 like this:

0 - 0%
1 - 2.8%
2 - 10.4%
3 - 21.6%
4 - 35.2%
5 - 50%
6 - 64.8%
7 - 78.4%
8 - 89.6%
9 - 97.2%
10 - 100%

That said, here are a few suggestions.
Sheik vs. Marth

7 - 3 is definitely overkill here. That's saying Sheiks beat Marths almost 80% of the time in tournament matches, which is way off. At most it should be 6 - 4, but honestly you might need to rethink your system in general, as there's no room for "slight advantage" (like 55 - 60%) on this chart. You could just include increments of .5 and that would probably be adequate.

Marth vs. Captain Falcon

This is pretty even in my opinion. Captain Falcon has the advantage on bigger stages (FD, PS, DL) and Marth has the advantage on smaller stages. Marth's advantage is probably more significant but 3/5 of the random stages are better for Falcon, so overall it should be pretty even.

Fox

Fox has the advantage over Marth. What Marths beat the extremely good Foxes? Ken? Azen? The matchup chart makes the assumption of equal skill. A moderately skilled Fox will beat a moderately skilled Marth.

The Fox vs. Sheik advantage may be understated. Sheiks hardly ever beat Foxes. Fox vs. CF advantage is understated as well. Unless you're Darkrain, CF has little chance against Fox.

In general I think some of Foxes matches vs. low tiers may be too low.

Falco

Falco vs. Marth is not even. If Marth were as good as this chart made him look, a lot more Marths would be winning tourneys. But they aren't. Foxes and Falcos win tourneys.

The Falco vs. Sheik advantage is understated.

Captain Falcon vs. Luigi

Ask Captain Falcon players and they will tell you a good Luigi is a difficult matchup. In my opinion it should be 6 - 4 Luigi, at best even, but definitely not 6 - 4 CF. Luigi's NAIR comes out WAY faster than any of CF's aerials. In fact you can't even do a dthrow => knee against a good Luigi before you get NAIRed. Luigi can edgeguard CF very well, and he can move on the ground just as fast with his wavedashing. Also, he can break out of combos like triple UAIRs with a well-timed NAIR. Luigi is pretty easy for CF to combo, but not as easy as it seems, and it's difficult to start the combos regardless because you generally can't throw into them.

Marth vs. Roy

Is this really 7 - 3? Marth should win almost 80% of the time? I don't know much about this particular matchup but I've always heard Roy did pretty well against Marth.


Ice Climbers

ICs should be updated to account for wobbling. I tried adding 1-point to all their matchups and that made them #1, so that's probably overkill. Maybe .5 increases? And it's less applicable against some opponents, who are difficult to grab.

I just added .5 for all their matchups, and without changing anything else about the matchup chart, that puts ICs at #4. I need more accurate character use percentages to get really meaningful results, though.

 

[StripesOrBars]

First of all remember that these matchup values translate to win percentages in a best 2 out of 3 like this:

0 - 0%
1 - 2.8%
2 - 10.4%
3 - 21.6%
4 - 35.2%
5 - 50%
6 - 64.8%
7 - 78.4%
8 - 89.6%
9 - 97.2%
10 - 100%

That said, here are a few suggestions.
Sheik vs. Marth

7 - 3 is definitely overkill here. That's saying Sheiks beat Marths almost 80% of the time in tournament matches, which is way off. At most it should be 6 - 4, but honestly you might need to rethink your system in general, as there's no room for "slight advantage" (like 55 - 60%) on this chart. You could just include increments of .5 and that would probably be adequate.

Marth vs. Captain Falcon

This is pretty even in my opinion. Captain Falcon has the advantage on bigger stages (FD, PS, DL) and Marth has the advantage on smaller stages. Marth's advantage is probably more significant but 3/5 of the random stages are better for Falcon, so overall it should be pretty even.

Fox

Fox has the advantage over Marth. What Marths beat the extremely good Foxes? Ken? Azen? The matchup chart makes the assumption of equal skill. A moderately skilled Fox will beat a moderately skilled Marth.

The Fox vs. Sheik advantage may be understated. Sheiks hardly ever beat Foxes. Fox vs. CF advantage is understated as well. Unless you're Darkrain, CF has little chance against Fox.

In general I think some of Foxes matches vs. low tiers may be too low.

Falco

Falco vs. Marth is not even. If Marth were as good as this chart made him look, a lot more Marths would be winning tourneys. But they aren't. Foxes and Falcos win tourneys.

The Falco vs. Sheik advantage is understated.

Captain Falcon vs. Luigi

Ask Captain Falcon players and they will tell you a good Luigi is a difficult matchup. In my opinion it should be 6 - 4 Luigi, at best even, but definitely not 6 - 4 CF. Luigi's NAIR comes out WAY faster than any of CF's aerials. In fact you can't even do a dthrow => knee against a good Luigi before you get NAIRed. Luigi can edgeguard CF very well, and he can move on the ground just as fast with his wavedashing. Also, he can break out of combos like triple UAIRs with a well-timed NAIR. Luigi is pretty easy for CF to combo, but not as easy as it seems, and it's difficult to start the combos regardless because you generally can't throw into them.

Marth vs. Roy

Is this really 7 - 3? Marth should win almost 80% of the time? I don't know much about this particular matchup but I've always heard Roy did pretty well against Marth.


Ice Climbers

ICs should be updated to account for wobbling. I tried adding 1-point to all their matchups and that made them #1, so that's probably overkill. Maybe .5 increases? And it's less applicable against some opponents, who are difficult to grab.

I just added .5 for all their matchups, and without changing anything else about the matchup chart, that puts ICs at #4. I need more accurate character use percentages to get really meaningful results, though.

I can tell you main Marth or Shiek.

Marth is the best character in the game(with Fox).

Marth is the only character besides Falco that has an advantage on Fox in the matchup.

Although the advantage is slight, Marth beats Fox and Falco.

All Marth needs is one grab a stock and Fox/Falco should have 1 less stock.

Getting the grab is the hard part.

 

[Shai Hulud]

I can tell you main Marth or Shiek.

Marth is the best character in the game(with Fox).

Marth is the only character besides Falco that has an advantage on Fox in the matchup.

Although the advantage is slight, Marth beats Fox and Falco.

All Marth needs is one grab a stock and Fox/Falco should have 1 less stock.

Getting the grab is the hard part.

Most people can't chaingrab Falco 0 - death. I think the Falco can shine out at 28% regardless. If Fox doesn't DI around 28 you have to pivot grab. Most players will mess this up. And you can only CG consistently on FD, where Falco will **** you because of his l8zorz. Elsewhere it's very situational. Also, Fox can kill Marth at pretty low % on FD because of the low ceiling.

I play Ice Climbers and Captain Falcon, mostly. Some Marth too. Very little Sheik.

 

[A-Laon]

snip

Just a few points I can strongly support / disagree with here:

-Agree with Sheik vs Marth changes

-Foxes do seem to do better against Marths, but not to any degree I'd see fitting to warrant a concrete "advantage" over.

-Falco vs. Marth is a dead-even control battle. Shine combos are stocks. Grabs are stocks -- if not because of those moves themselves, then because of the horrible defensive position it puts the victim in afterwards. Keep this even.

-Falco vs Sheik is fine as it is. Falco can control the battle, hence the advantage, but he still dies too easily to make him a counter (needles + dsmash = Falco never recovers).

-EDIT: Leave Marth v Roy as is -- sorry, misread the numbering.

-Really, get wobbling in there for the ICs...

 

[captainlukey]

i say just let phanna do his job, he was doin fine before everyone started putting thier two cents in....
all you people do is take away smash boards soul, so stop F****ng around and stop pretending to know

 

[Shai Hulud]

i say just let phanna do his job, he was doin fine before everyone started putting thier two cents in....
all you people do is take away smash boards soul, so stop F****ng around and stop pretending to know

Phanna wants our input.

 

[Me14k]

Currently ICs counter DK 7-3. Id think a 8-2 or a 9-1 would be fine being that DK relies on grab, and you cant grab the ICs very well. But 7-3 is still fine

 

[phanna]

Phanna wants our input.

Yeah, actually, that's entirely what this chart is based on. The only kinds of posts I don't like are blatently biased, unfounded opinions, but any post that is intelligent and earnest is awesome.

 

[captainlukey]

Phanna wants our input.

yeah i understand that and you do a good job man, but phanna is like a sammus legend... and most of the people who post on this thread have no real idea at all... its all "IMO"
if there was some reall evidence.... maybe it would be worth reading through like a million pages to find...
it just seems as though every noob in the world wants to post bull crap stats and such on every thread....
by all means shai, go for it man, your oppinions are valid and true...
and just the other day i seen you correct someone on falcos jumping frames... would you even have to do that if noobs werent posting crap?
do you see where im coming from man, or am i wasting my time?

 

[Zankoku]

yeah i understand that and you do a good job man, but phanna is like a sammus legend... and most of the people who post on this thread have no real idea at all... its all "IMO"
if there was some reall evidence.... maybe it would be worth reading through like a million pages to find...
it just seems as though every noob in the world wants to post bull crap stats and such on every thread....
by all means shai, go for it man, your oppinions are valid and true...
and just the other day i seen you correct someone on falcos jumping frames... would you even have to do that if noobs werent posting crap?
do you see where im coming from man, or am i wasting my time?

I see that you're taking a very elitist attitude.

You really can't be completely objective on something as wide-reaching as this. In the end, there'll be lots of arguments concerning important matchups before a definitive number the majority agrees on is reached.

 

[Shai Hulud]

yeah i understand that and you do a good job man, but phanna is like a sammus legend... and most of the people who post on this thread have no real idea at all... its all "IMO"
if there was some reall evidence.... maybe it would be worth reading through like a million pages to find...
it just seems as though every noob in the world wants to post bull crap stats and such on every thread....
by all means shai, go for it man, your oppinions are valid and true...
and just the other day i seen you correct someone on falcos jumping frames... would you even have to do that if noobs werent posting crap?
do you see where im coming from man, or am i wasting my time?

I hear what you're saying but I think Phanna and Chosen can tell which opinions are well-informed and which are worthless (Roy is top tier doodz!).

 

[captainlukey]

I see that you're taking a very elitist attitude.

You really can't be completely objective on something as wide-reaching as this. In the end, there'll be lots of arguments concerning important matchups before a definitive number the majority agrees on is reached.

im not taking an elitest attitude to anything, its the truth, plain and true.... just tell me how often you have to correct noobs... its over half my post count. all im saying is if you dont KNOW then dont post, its that simple, "IMO"s dont count

 

[pockyD]

IMO's count if they are properly backed up (gives reasons) and stimulates discussion that brings it closer to accuracy

 

[Indigo4]

I'm not quite sure how the tiers are ranked. I mean, maybe I'm just looking at it from a weird angle, but I don't see how a character can be ranked really. Every single person has a different way of playing video games, be it Melee or anything else. Someone who has played Melee as Falco for years could be wiped out by someone playing it after a week with Mewtwo. It truly does depend on the player. I'm not saying the tiers are all wrong or anything, because I think they are a great standard to go by. But I wouldn't say they are the definitive judge of a character. For example, I play as Pikachu for a main character. I know I could handle Marth, Shiek or the Ice Climbers with ease. I know I have some problems with Fox and Falco, but nothing I can't handle. To be quite honest, it's Ganondorf that I personally struggle with! It's the player that matters!

 

[captainlukey]

IMO's count if they are properly backed up (gives reasons) and stimulates discussion that brings it closer to accuracy

true true... but that hardly ever happens...

 

[Mogwai]

Thanks again for letting me use your chart in my project Phanna.

Here are my opinions about Falco's matchups and a few others I think are really off:

Falco vs. Jiggs : 6/7 This one is at least a 6, probably a 7. Lasers create real problems for a Jiggs that's trying to approach and solid l-canceling -> shine makes sneaking a grab -> uthrow -> rest exceptionally difficult for Jiggs, and dair out prioritizes jiggs's uair so it's hard for her to get rest combos that way too. The only thing that seems to be a problem is Jigg's recovery, but I've never found killing Jiggs too bad.

Falco vs. Ganon : 8/9 This matchup is complete ****. I'd put it at a 9 personally, but 8 is sreasonable. SHL owns Ganon, and he's easy to combo. The only nice thing Ganon has vs. Falco is insane combos starting with dairs, but smart Falcos rarely, if ever get hit by this move. Falco should always be in control, and as such, should really never lose.

Falco vs. Luigi : 7 Luigi has the same problems as Jiggs vs. Falco; no reliable approach. Lasers define so many of the low tier matchups, and this is no exception. You should always be in control, and as such, assuming you play smart, Luigi should never get a real opening to combo you.

Falco vs. Roy : 8 Playing Roy is like playing Marth except he's SOOOO much easier to combo, kill, and edgegaurd, and he can't make use of his full sword to combo into deadly grabs or fsmashs. All this considered, he's REALLY easy to play against, just don't let him sneak too many grabs in and don't be stupid about fsmashes, he has a lot of trouble comboing into it, so just don't walk into it.

Falco vs. Yoshi : ??? Up to here, I've been fine with all the matchups besides the ones I've written down, but I know nothing about this one. Anyone know why this one is a 7?

Falco vs. Kirby : 9 Not much to say here. Kirby can duck under lasers. That's about all he's got going for him. And if he's commited to ducking, you just SHFFL dairs into him and he doesn't have any moves that can challenge it. Since that advantage doesn't really do anything, it's a normal match for Falco, SHL and combo all day and there's not a whole lot they can do about it.

Falco vs. Pichu : 8/9 Um, there's no way this is worse than Falco vs. Pikachu. I think it's a 9, since he's lighter and makes the job easier by hurting himself, but eh, I don't really know this one.

Fox vs. Marth : 5 I'm really sure this one is even. I remember this used to be even on the chart and honestly, I don't know why it changed. Assuming both players are good, they're both capable of wrecking each other with combos and both have reasonable approaches, doesn't get much more even than that.

Jiggs vs. Marth : 2/3 I used to think this was right at a 4, but after playing the matchup a good deal, it's a beating on Jiggs. You literally can't do anything but exploit mistakes, because as long as he spaces fairs well and doesn't fsmash mindlessly, you have no way to hit him. Granted, once you hit him, you have good options for comboing and setting up edgegaurds, but you have no control over this. So you hope for lots of mistakes and are screwed otherwise.

Jiggs vs. Ganon : 5/6 I understand the counter WoP thing with FH bair -> DJ uair, but if you're quick with a SHFFL uair, you can sneak under the uair and rest combo them. I've played Renth's Ganon quite a bit with my Jiggs, and he's honestly way better with Ganon than I am with Jiggs and I still always win this matchup.

I'm sure there are more problems, but these are the ones I am familiar with. We need someone competent to look over the Ness matchups again, there's no way he's even or better vs EVERYONE else low tier.

 

[captainlukey]

Thanks again for letting me use your chart in my project Phanna.

Here are my opinions about Falco's matchups and a few others I think are really off:

Falco vs. Jiggs : 6/7 This one is at least a 6, probably a 7. Lasers create real problems for a Jiggs that's trying to approach and solid l-canceling -> shine makes sneaking a grab -> uthrow -> rest exceptionally difficult for Jiggs, and dair out prioritizes jiggs's uair so it's hard for her to get rest combos that way too. The only thing that seems to be a problem is Jigg's recovery, but I've never found killing Jiggs too bad.

Falco vs. Ganon : 8/9 This matchup is complete ****. I'd put it at a 9 personally, but 8 is sreasonable. SHL owns Ganon, and he's easy to combo. The only nice thing Ganon has vs. Falco is insane combos starting with dairs, but smart Falcos rarely, if ever get hit by this move. Falco should always be in control, and as such, should really never lose.

Falco vs. Luigi : 7 Luigi has the same problems as Jiggs vs. Falco; no reliable approach. Lasers define so many of the low tier matchups, and this is no exception. You should always be in control, and as such, assuming you play smart, Luigi should never get a real opening to combo you.

Falco vs. Roy : 8 Playing Roy is like playing Marth except he's SOOOO much easier to combo, kill, and edgegaurd, and he can't make use of his full sword to combo into deadly grabs or fsmashs. All this considered, he's REALLY easy to play against, just don't let him sneak too many grabs in and don't be stupid about fsmashes, he has a lot of trouble comboing into it, so just don't walk into it.

Falco vs. Yoshi : ??? Up to here, I've been fine with all the matchups besides the ones I've written down, but I know nothing about this one. Anyone know why this one is a 7?

Falco vs. Kirby : 9 Not much to say here. Kirby can duck under lasers. That's about all he's got going for him. And if he's commited to ducking, you just SHFFL dairs into him and he doesn't have any moves that can challenge it. Since that advantage doesn't really do anything, it's a normal match for Falco, SHL and combo all day and there's not a whole lot they can do about it.

Falco vs. Pichu : 8/9 Um, there's no way this is worse than Falco vs. Pikachu. I think it's a 9, since he's lighter and makes the job easier by hurting himself, but eh, I don't really know this one.

Fox vs. Marth : 5 I'm really sure this one is even. I remember this used to be even on the chart and honestly, I don't know why it changed. Assuming both players are good, they're both capable of wrecking each other with combos and both have reasonable approaches, doesn't get much more even than that.

Jiggs vs. Marth : 2/3 I used to think this was right at a 4, but after playing the matchup a good deal, it's a beating on Jiggs. You literally can't do anything but exploit mistakes, because as long as he spaces fairs well and doesn't fsmash mindlessly, you have no way to hit him. Granted, once you hit him, you have good options for comboing and setting up edgegaurds, but you have no control over this. So you hope for lots of mistakes and are screwed otherwise.

Jiggs vs. Ganon : 5/6 I understand the counter WoP thing with FH bair -> DJ uair, but if you're quick with a SHFFL uair, you can sneak under the uair and rest combo them. I've played Renth's Ganon quite a bit with my Jiggs, and he's honestly way better with Ganon than I am with Jiggs and I still always win this matchup.

I'm sure there are more problems, but these are the ones I am familiar with. We need someone competent to look over the Ness matchups again, there's no way he's even or better vs EVERYONE else low tier.

geez, there it is in the first line, "my opinions" keep your opinions to your self we want facts

 

[A-Laon]

Falco vs. Yoshi : ??? Up to here, I've been fine with all the matchups besides the ones I've written down, but I know nothing about this one. Anyone know why this one is a 7?

Because pillaring owns every roll, shield, and dodge Yoshi ever does, which leads into stupidly easy shine combos. The only thing Yoshi has at all in this match-up is that he can tank through a lot of kill moves, but even that doesn't matter seeing as Falco can just effortlessly add further damage until he gets the solid kill. Oh, and did I mention that lasers pretty much murder Yoshi's offensive game? I suggest this match-up be raised to an 8 for Falco. Yoshi's just **** out of luck when it comes to defending from anything Falco has on him.

(only reason I don't suggest this being a 9 is because, like any other Falco match-up, one fsmash that sends Falco off the stage is a stock)

geez, there it is in the first line, "my opinions" keep your opinions to your self we want facts

If you want undeniable, concrete facts regarding wildly fluxuating and totally player-dependant experiences, you're never going to be satisfied, because they don't exist.