Alabama Thread! (10/26/2016 update)

[Zylo]

Open World Cafe in Mandeville Louisiana (I think it's on Florida Street?)

 

[Jake The Preacher]

https://www.facebook.com/events/1437960133116062/?source=3&source_newsfeed_story_type=regular
I'm not going but here's the facebook page

 

[theONEjanitor]

9-10 entrants at hivebang, they made me fight george 1st round lol. i ended up getting 4th. not bad for first project m tournament i guess
how do you fight ness doe

 

[Metmetm3t]

Only 10? That's disappointing. Where are all the Tuscaloosa players at?

 

[Jake The Preacher]

I guess we don't have as many as we thought, or at least they don't know about it. Unless the one before this one had more, I guess this is it for us, but it was still a decent amount I guess, but a few more wouldn't hurt.

 

[Zylo]

We just don't like to go to the hive bang tournament. It's off campus and the prize money is fairly small considering the entry. IIRC (and feel free to correct me), it's a $10 entry and 1st gets $30. I don't know if there are prizes for 2nd either. (and no melee, but a lot of us like PM more)

 

[theONEjanitor]

Only 10? That's disappointing. Where are all the Tuscaloosa players at?

appaerntly the ABXY/UA players don't go to the hivebang tournaments.
it went fast because there was so few people but it was a fairly disorganized, almost casual tournament. only 1 set up and basically no rules (i probably would have won my match in losers if I was able to ban FD against ness.), and as mentioned a small prize. someone in the scene needs to work with hivebang to make them run more legitimately. I think the guy who runs the center just doesn't know how these things go. but no one seems to be stepping up to help fine tune everything. if he charges a door fee and gives legitimate prizes, he probably makes more money because more people will come. I feel like no one has explained this to him yet.

 

[Zylo]

The year is winding down (and we had an issue with getting a room reservation), so after the summer we're going to be bringing back a monthly tournament series for melee and PM. So be looking out for that when next semester starts up! We have a pretty good venue that we can get for free on a regular occasion with plenty of space and plenty of people willing to help run the tournament, so hopefully it will be successful.

 

[Jake The Preacher]

appaerntly the ABXY/UA players don't go to the hivebang tournaments.
it went fast because there was so few people but it was a fairly disorganized, almost casual tournament. only 1 set up and basically no rules (i probably would have won my match in losers if I was able to ban FD against ness.), and as mentioned a small prize. someone in the scene needs to work with hivebang to make them run more legitimately. I think the guy who runs the center just doesn't know how these things go. but no one seems to be stepping up to help fine tune everything. if he charges a door fee and gives legitimate prizes, he probably makes more money because more people will come. I feel like no one has explained this to him yet.

I've shot the owner of the Hive a message telling him what all you guys have said and hopefully we'll have things fixed up for the next one if you come back. By the way that Ness is my friend, avoid the PK fire and you're good, if he comes running he usually opens up with it. And Zylo, I don't mean to be on your back about this and I'm probably gonna get banned or something from this thread because I'd wager I'm not too popular with you guys on here. I know it's more than really different in college as opposed to high school, but please don't complain about the cash prize. I'm not telling you what to do and I'm gonna get barked at by everyone but you know that you don't go to tournaments solely for the money. I'm not trying to force you to come or tell you what to do or anything, I just wanted to remind you that's not the reason we should play smash. Really not yanking your chain or anything here, I'm not trying to tick you off or anything or say I'm better, just wanna get that across

 

[theONEjanitor]

it's just a bit unprecedented. I've been going to smash tournaments for literally almost 10 years, and yes, the chance a prize money is a big part of what makes us want to go. Not even because everyone thinks they have a shot, but it makes the overall tournament more legitimate, more tense, and more hype. Especially if you are going to charge 10 bucks for everyone to enter, and then just pocket the money. I understand we are using his location, but again, that's why most people are willing to pay door fees. Now if he wants to say, "pay 10 bucks and come use my venue to play smash all day" that's fine. Gamebox in birmingham attempted something similar to that. But saying, "pay 10 dollars to enter a tournament, and i'm just going to keep basically all of the money" is a bit weird.
that said, the tournament was fun, and everyone there was cool, including the employees of Hive Bang.

also, i don't mean to make excuses for my loss. I definitely don't fully know how to fight Ness, but FD was the only stage he beat me on with Ness because it was harder for me to get around his PK Fire spam. But that's definitely just me not knowing the matchup very well. I also could have switched characters. I was thinking of going wario or metaknight, which may have worked better. I was just giving an example of how a legitimate ruleset could have affected the tournament.

 

[Metmetm3t]

appaerntly the ABXY/UA players don't go to the hivebang tournaments.
it went fast because there was so few people but it was a fairly disorganized, almost casual tournament. only 1 set up and basically no rules (i probably would have won my match in losers if I was able to ban FD against ness.), and as mentioned a small prize. someone in the scene needs to work with hivebang to make them run more legitimately. I think the guy who runs the center just doesn't know how these things go. but no one seems to be stepping up to help fine tune everything. if he charges a door fee and gives legitimate prizes, he probably makes more money because more people will come. I feel like no one has explained this to him yet.

That's awful, but I've dealt with these kind of guys before. They've never seen a major tournament, they just hear that money is changing hands somehow so they figure they just pocket the entry fee and that's the way to go. Y'all need somebody to step in and get the word out how the community works because there's no reason Tuscaloosa should be having 10 man tournaments. They should be walking breezy with 30+ like the rest of the state, easily.

@ Jake The Preacher It seems you are new to the scene, so I can understand you haven't got a firm grasp on just how important balancing the money really is. The problem isn't that some players wants to walk away with everybodies' cash. It's that the pot money is OUR money. That money is the communities' commitment to the tournament. We aren't paying to enter the tournament, we are paying to fund the tournament. And the top players EARN their payout, but the TO putting his hands in the cookie jar is an insult.

Here's the recommendation I've given a few store owners before. First, find the community and advertise to them, EARLY and with EXCITEMENT. So far all of the Hivebang tournaments have been scheduled with just a few days notice, and they've been dropped into our facebook group with a little nudge and a wink. No hype, no time to plan, no consideration for other area tournaments that might conflict. Having someone making a Smashboards thread is also a huge help. But in many ways it's more important to make a RESULTS thread. Results threads are where people talk about how much fun they had at the last event. If you run a decent event the fun will be automatic and the results thread is instant nostalgia and builds up free advertising for the next one. Next, get the rules right. Even if you don't know anything about smash, just copy the APEX ruleset and stick to it. They have them all listed on the APEX website, and more than likely half the players know the APEX rules by heart anyway. Lastly keep YOUR money and the PLAYERS money very separate. No one will bat an eye at a reasonable venue fee. But as soon as the pot comes up short it's time to fight. This is the way ALL tournaments are run. Not just small locals run by teenagers. Even EVO holds the pot sacred, so Hivebang gets no free passes.

If you run your tournament right your numbers should consistently grow, and for the venue owner that should mean more money. With Smash 4 literally months away there is no time to be ******* around with barely functional, uninspired tournaments. This is 2014, even us Brawl scrubs have been around for six years, the community doesn't deserve that kind of treatment.

 

[Jake The Preacher]

it's just a bit unprecedented. I've been going to smash tournaments for literally almost 10 years, and yes, the chance a prize money is a big part of what makes us want to go. Not even because everyone thinks they have a shot, but it makes the overall tournament more legitimate, more tense, and more hype. Especially if you are going to charge 10 bucks for everyone to enter, and then just pocket the money. I understand we are using his location, but again, that's why most people are willing to pay door fees. Now if he wants to say, "pay 10 bucks and come use my venue to play smash all day" that's fine. Gamebox in birmingham attempted something similar to that. But saying, "pay 10 dollars to enter a tournament, and i'm just going to keep basically all of the money" is a bit weird.
that said, the tournament was fun, and everyone there was cool, including the employees of Hive Bang.

also, i don't mean to make excuses for my loss. I definitely don't fully know how to fight Ness, but FD was the only stage he beat me on with Ness because it was harder for me to get around his PK Fire spam. But that's definitely just me not knowing the matchup very well. I also could have switched characters. I was thinking of going wario or metaknight, which may have worked better. I was just giving an example of how a legitimate ruleset could have affected the tournament.

It certainly would have, but after a couple matches you could probably get used to it. But really, who actually knows that matchup? I'd wager that I'm one of the few around here who do. As far as the pocketing the moula, they're not making as much money as I think they should be so that's the only defense I can think of for them right now, but for everything else I'll try and get to them on it and try and make some improvements

 

[theONEjanitor]

well yeah. if the venue owner is seeing smash tournaments as some kind of business proposition to make any kind of real money, he's going to be sorely disappointed. But like I said, he'd make almost the same amount of money otherwise.

there were 9 entrants (i think) and a 30 dollar prize, so he made 60 bucks.
If he charged a 5 dollar door fee, and let the entree fee actually go into a prize pool, he would literally need only 3 more people to equal that 60 bucks, which I think would be easy since Tuscaloosa already has a scene.

I just wasn't prepared for the fact that Ness's PK Fire activates on shield. WTF is that. Why would they encourage projectile spamming lmfao. Ill be ready next time tho. still my fault though. I've always been bad against ness and characters like ness in every smash game. the sudden shifts in momentum throw me off. I miss being able to grab ness and lucas with snake and get a free 30 percent lol

For another example of how the ruleset could have affected the tournament (that doesn't involve me winning), in my match against i think flameblade? he let me pick the first stage, I lost this match with my wolf, and then he picked the next stage (generally the loser of the match selects the stage). I won with mario, and then he let me pick the stage for the final match. This is tremendously unfair to him.

 

[Metmetm3t]

From what I'm reading here a 10 man $10 tournament where only 1st place gets paid is $70 for the venue. That's plenty for running a smashfest on one setup. I could have run a tournament like that in my bedroom and been proud of $70. So, in that respect, they'll get no sympathy from me.

But I do understand that from a business's perspective, especially a local computer cafe, that won't pay the bills. But like I said, if you run the tournament right the numbers should be MUCH higher.

As a benchmark. We charged a $5 venue fee at the last HP Monthly. Nearly 40 players showed up, so that was $200 for the venue. If everything goes well (And I'm going to keep working on it) we can do that every month and maybe even expand from there when Smash 4 comes out. The reason why I believe that all of this is possible is because Ryker and I work hard to run HP Monthlies right.

As you might can tell, I'm very passionate about this community. Smash has given me more than I could ever give back in terms of enduring friendships and memories. So it hurts me, and I feel personally responsible to try and step up and make Tuscaloosa a deep competitive scene like it should be. I hope you guys'll help me because I don't see why you guys shouldn't be there running things when Tuscaloosa is hosting a 100 man tournament this fall.

 

[Jake The Preacher]

Luckily I played more Wolf than I expected, so whenever I get blasted by the fire I'd just hammer my B button and hope my shine catches him, thankfully it did a lot. I'll make sure there's more legitimacy at the next one, because I kinda feel you on that one.

Met, you tell me what you think would make it better and I'll try and improve it like that

 

[Metmetm3t]

I would say you should try and take over the tournament. Let the Hivebang guys know that you're going to be their guy for smash. Then just check over the recommendations I gave in my earlier post and try to do as many of those things as you can. Other than that, make sure to have multiple setups, like, as many as you can get. Players will bring setups if you ask them. Plan it for at least a month or more out and make sure it's not going to wreck some other planned tournament. I'll help you advertise it as much as I can, and I'll even try to make it up there to help out and I'll be sure to bring the Crew.

 

[Jake The Preacher]

I would say you should try and take over the tournament. Let the Hivebang guys know that you're going to be their guy for smash. Then just check over the recommendations I gave in my earlier post and try to do as many of those things as you can. Other than that, make sure to have multiple setups, like, as many as you can get. Players will bring setups if you ask them. Plan it for at least a month or more out and make sure it's not going to wreck some other planned tournament. I'll help you advertise it as much as I can, and I'll even try to make it up there to help out and I'll be sure to bring the Crew.

Since you're in Mobile I'm not gonna ask you to do that because it's so far away. And we've got them planned as Bi weeklies, John just posts the FB event a few days before for unknown reasons. So you think it'd be best to scrap the Bi weeklies or just plan them more rather than just show up and play?

 

[*Cam*]

Listen to M3t, he knows what he's talking about.

However, I'm less gung-ho than he is about teaming up with businesses, especially if the university club has a good following. I am not up-to-date on all of the happenings in Tuscaloosa Smash over the last two years, but back when I was in charge of ASL, we teamed up with ABXY to host a legitimate tournament every semester or so. Of course, you can host tournaments more often than that, it's just what we did when the scene in other AL cities was more active. The important thing is to lay a foundation to build on and to consistently improve what kind of event you are putting out. TOs develop reputations if they run good events, and it makes people more likely to come out, both locals and people from out of town. They will know from your history that you run a good event (a good reason to run an event series, so if they don't know you, they will at least be familiar with the event name). M3t has given you some very good advice to get started, so let me reiterate it.

1. Have a venue fee that goes towards the venue and an entry fee that ONLY goes towards the prize pot. Make it $5 for an entry fee if you think $10 will scare people off or is too expensive.
2. Advertise farther ahead of time.
3. Reach out to crews in other cities and invite them to come. Also, make sure when you schedule an event that it doesn't conflict with a major Smash tournament in Alabama.
4. Use a standard tournament ruleset (Apex rules are fine).
5. Be the go-between between the business and the community. Make it so that all the business has to know is how much money you are paying them for a venue fee and how long you need the venue. Everything else like rulesets and prize pots, leave the business out of that; otherwise, they are likely to muck it up.

 

[Metmetm3t]

Thanks @ *Cam*

You are right though. Hivebang isn't necessarily what's best for you guys up in T Town. The university is certainly going to be a little more active since it's where the majority of the young people are going to be. I can't be up there so I don't know who wants to work with y'all or who's just going to scrape by with the bare minimum.

As for how frequently you run events. If ABXY is already running weeklies, I (as another random player in Tuscaloosa) would probably not want to then also go to the Hivebang stuff.

IDK you guys seem really disconnected right now. My guess is that it's from a lack of "leadership." Somebody's got to step up and start a regular dialog within the local scene. I'm in the ABXY facebook group and I don't see enough conversations in there. Like, actually the Pensacola scene is the one to be envied. They have a FB group all to themselves and they are posting in it every day, talking about when they are going to get together next. They also have their own social thread here on Smashboards that's very active. In Mobile we have a Skype group and it's very active as well, but I'll admit it doesn't even have a quarter of the local smashers in it.

At this point i'm starting to ramble and throw ideas out there. Hopefully you guys'll think about it, though. Anybody can be the leader of their scene. But SOMEBODY has to or else you get 10 man tournaments.

 

[*Cam*]

I hate to turn this into an echo chamber (like a certain Brawl podcast I could name), but M3t is very correct. Leadership is ultimately what will grow a bustling, exciting scene or allow a community to go out with a whimper. I've seen it happen over and over again, both positively and negatively. Huntsville had a great Smash scene, then the leadership fell away and they stopped hosting HASL. On the other hand, Auburn has had strong leadership for many years now, and it has the most active Smash scene in the state. AUSOM 10, back in March, was one of the most well-attended Brawl tournaments in the history of AL Smash. I believe Auburn works because it has always had leaders to help develop the local university scene there, leaders who take the time to draw in other interested students and welcome them into the world of competitive Smash.

The strongest thing the Smash community has going for it is its grassroots structure. Anyone can pull a local community up by planning an event and getting the ball rolling. (Of course, I believe this is the community's weakness too, but that's a discussion for another time). The point is, building a local Smash community is actually rather simple and well within any player's reach, as long as you are willing to put in a little work. Lots of people play Smash--the work comes with making opportunities available for these people to meet up regularly and play, and to make sure that the group is as open as possible for newcomers. That, and of course, making sure people know about it. All of which M3t and I would be happy to guide you in accomplishing.

 

[Zylo]

To put things in better perspective, we ran a strictly melee tournament about a month ago at UA. We didn't advertise it because we were apprehensive about our ability to handle a larger tournament. There was a $5 buy in. There was no venue fee. Despite the fact that we planned it in two weeks and you would not have seen it on the ASL page or smashboards, we had 18 entrants and even more show up. So don't think Tuscaloosa has some depraved smash scene because people aren't going to the hive bang tournaments. We have plenty of people who play both melee and pm regularly, but if we're going to smash for 6 hours, we'd rather do it in a free venue on more than one setup, even if we have to bring them ourselves. I understand that businesses have to make money, but there is not enough incentive to get the majority of us out to those tournaments.

PS, if the ness player you're talking about is Jesse, good on him because he's a great guy and an awesome smasher.

 

[*Cam*]

Zylo, I totally agree, I think through the university is the way to go. As M3t and I said, we have no idea what's happening in UA right now because our contacts there are gone. We need to reopen lines of communication between Tuscaloosa and the rest of the AL Smash scene.

 

[Zylo]

We've recently made a new UA smash league page as an outlet for organizing smash gatherings and tournament attendance, so I'd love to add anyone interested so that we can have a better method of advertising ourselves.

 

[Metmetm3t]

Why have a UA Smash League when there already is an ABXY Smash League though?
https://www.facebook.com/groups/147232218644587/

 

[Zylo]

The reasoning is that the ABXY smash league page appears to be full of inactive members as well as, for lack of a better word, clutter. I thought (and still believe) that we needed a more specified, competitive-minded page for us more serious players.

 

[Metmetm3t]

I understand your logic on that one, but to me it make more sense to just try and bolster more support within that group. Right now that facebook group is incredibly inactive, so that just means it's an empty plate just waiting for someone to come in there and start leading the group in whatever direction he/she wants. So what if there are 80 members who completely ignore the group. That still means there are nearly 30 in there that are checking it. And your group either is going to come off as competition to the established set, or worse, as a bunch of elitist. No one likes an elitist.

 

[Jake The Preacher]

I've got a small update from the Hive's tournaments. Basically this is why it's so unorganized: Really these tournaments are kinda just placeholders for now. They're working on getting a small extension of their building that'll be smash exclusive. I'm still waiting to hear back about the next one for sure, I don't know if there'll be a pot or not, but it sounds like there'll be an X amount for venue fee, and X amount of that venue fee will be put into a pot, does everyone understand how I put that? They'll have more setups when they get the areas and I think APEX rules will be there next time. So hopefully soon they'll get that space and everything will be buffed up, that sound good to everyone?

 

[Wafer6866]

I'm ready for Alabama to get them melee power rankings XD

 

[Zylo]

Let me know if you need setups, we have a guy who is good for 2-3 CRTs, I have one, another buddy of mine has one, and we have plenty of setups with melee and PM as well.

 

[*Cam*]

I've got a small update from the Hive's tournaments. Basically this is why it's so unorganized: Really these tournaments are kinda just placeholders for now. They're working on getting a small extension of their building that'll be smash exclusive. I'm still waiting to hear back about the next one for sure, I don't know if there'll be a pot or not, but it sounds like there'll be an X amount for venue fee, and X amount of that venue fee will be put into a pot, does everyone understand how I put that? They'll have more setups when they get the areas and I think APEX rules will be there next time. So hopefully soon they'll get that space and everything will be buffed up, that sound good to everyone?

People don't mind paying a venue fee, but they are likely to be upset when they think they are paying an entry fee and it's really just money that's going to the host. Make sure it's clear to people where their money is going before they enter. If money that they think is going to the pot goes to Hive, then that's sure to piss some players off.

 

[CrimsonSun]

I went to the first Hivebang PM meet a few months ago and also thought the prize pool was strange. The prize for 1st place was a white gamecube controller (that was all). I think there were about 9 people who showed up to that one. There was a results page for this meet, however, I can't seem to find results for the 2nd, 3rd and 4th meets. I'm curious to know who's doing well at these events and the turnouts.

As for my experience with Ness in PM, all I can say is you really need to learn how to DI out of his pk fires (I usually wiggle the control stick up/away and jump out). This will stop him from getting extra follow up damage, and he'll be forced to mix it up (or not).

 

[o-Serin-o]

Who all is planning on going to the Montgomery tournament this Saturday?

 

[Zylo]

Really wanted to get a car together, but we have finals next week :/

 

[NinKenDo64]

I'll be showing up along with some others hopefully. Might not be able to stay long cuz of work but I'll try and get some friendlies in. I didn't even know we had a smash scene in Montgomery. Thought it was a myth lol

 

[theONEjanitor]

DISCUSS:
IMO Final Destination is not neutral and should be labeled a counterpick. It heavily favors specific characters, and is often used in the same way counterpick stages are used after one has lost a match.

 

[Metmetm3t]

I would agree T1J.From my experience if a match is struck to FD it's usually because one of the players doesn't understand the matchup. But in Brawl and Melee the stage lists have been whittled down to where you don't have much choice but to make it a neutral. In P:M, though...

Idk, maybe you could switch it or drop FD plus another stage. Which stages do you think would be the best to do this with though?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Well, in my head, Smash being a "platform fighter" makes considering FD a neutral seem strange, as it has no platforms. That said, the variations between stages nowadays really make the "neutral" list best served by a variety of stages that most characters are largely unimpeded on, since stage striking eliminates anything your character would really rather not play on to begin with.

 

[Metmetm3t]

Maybe getting the right balance of stages (small/large more/less platforms etc.) in the starter list is more important than striving for some kind of ideal "neutral" list.

 

[NinKenDo64]

I agree with you in that respect reflex. I mean technically FD is just one huge platform so the stage is still within the realm of "platform fighter", but because people can strike a majority of the neutrals on first pick it's not to big a deal if FD becomes just a counterpick or not. That is unless there's another stage you would recommend replacing it.

 

[o-Serin-o]

Not like I'mma let anybody take my ass to FD to play Game 1 of a set anyway lmao. Yeah ****in right, I'd be a fool to put myself in that position. Nah but real **** tho, FD is neutral to me. It just doesn't do me any justice when I have other reasonable stages to choose from.