After the SDCC tournament yesterday... I'm having doubts Smash 4 will be a good competitive game.

[Ryuutakeshi]

The development if the 3ds game is still ongoing, you were reading a mistranslation

Not for much longer. Titles typically go gold about a month before launch. That's in almost two weeks.

To say nothing of it needing final approval.

 

[S_B]

3) I'm honestly a bit wary of this (assuming it does actually happen). How will Nintendo/Sora respond to feedback on a fighting game? With Mario Kart and Pokemon they were just patching out obvious glitches and obnoxious exploits, but balance patches are a bit different then that. And just how many patches will we get, if any? Time will tell...

I think it'll be fine.

They won't be listening to feedback: they'll have all the 1v1 data they'll need via "For Glory" mode.

If one character alone starts tearing up FG, they'll know something is amiss and balance accordingly.

 

[Raijinken]

If the enemy shields, grab him. Or harass him from a range. Or use one of the numerous shield-killing moves.

But seriously, they've increased endlag on so many things (practically all that has to do with air) that if you can't find a way to punish, you're not searching hard enough. If players play campy and boring, don't play with them. If TOs think it's a bad habit, punish it with disqualification to keep games interesting.

And furthermore, a game rewarding defensive play does not make it bad, it makes it different, and heaven forbid something not be a clone of Melee.

 

[SSBBDaisy]

I don't understand why people are now noticing this.

Like, for real. You guys should have figured it out when Sakurai said at E3 that all the 3DS needs to be finished is debugging.

That means mechanics, game speed, all that other stuff is done.....Its kinda late to even try to do anything about it.



Lets go brawl 2.0. Good for 1 year maybe 2 years in the competitive smash community with probably not being featured at most-any major tournament (like evo or mlg) before people are like screw this I'm going back to melee and pm. We could have done something, we could have spoke out more towards nintendo and sakurai so we could have a game more people would like and preserve a large active competitive community. But it's pretty much too late now.


PS: Either way IDC I know I will love this game and I will show up to tournaments always until the game dies like brawl has.

 

[Senario]

If the enemy shields, grab him. Or harass him from a range. Or use one of the numerous shield-killing moves.

But seriously, they've increased endlag on so many things (practically all that has to do with air) that if you can't find a way to punish, you're not searching hard enough. If players play campy and boring, don't play with them. If TOs think it's a bad habit, punish it with disqualification to keep games interesting.

And furthermore, a game rewarding defensive play does not make it bad, it makes it different, and heaven forbid something not be a clone of Melee.

The problem is what determines "too campy" or "too defensive" it'll make the competitive community have less credibility in the general fighting game community if we have to start DQ'ing people who play too defensive even though they get the most payout for it. Best way to stop this is to make offense worth something, make shield pressure worth something. The whole problem of the game being too defensive to be interesting to watch needs to be solved by having a decent payout for offense, not DQ'ing people we may think camp too much.

Also, if the only option you have when they are shielding is to grab them they can see that pretty well and will just respond accordingly. If every time I shielded the opponent HAD to grab me to get around it or charge up a really long charge time shield breaker it would be extremely noticeable and easy to predict. Melee worked because you could pressure shield with good spacing OR you could grab them.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

Well, the wii u still has some time. The 3DS has less than two weeks.

 

[Raijinken]

The problem is what determines "too campy" or "too defensive" it'll make the competitive community have less credibility in the general fighting game community if we have to start DQ'ing people who play too defensive even though they get the most payout for it. Best way to stop this is to make offense worth something, make shield pressure worth something. The whole problem of the game being too defensive to be interesting to watch needs to be solved by having a decent payout for offense, not DQ'ing people we may think camp too much.

Also, if the only option you have when they are shielding is to grab them they can see that pretty well and will just respond accordingly. If every time I shielded the opponent HAD to grab me to get around it or charge up a really long charge time shield breaker it would be extremely noticeable and easy to predict. Melee worked because you could pressure shield with good spacing OR you could grab them.

Smash is already mocked by all the fighting game communities I'm aware of.

And, while I'm certainly no pro, it has always seemed to me like the only ways to prevent someone from abusing a shield are to threaten with grabs or constant pressure and the threat of shattering. I agree with your point that there should be a reason to reward aggressive play, but most of the other games (bar Brawl which overdid the defense) went too far so that there was not a viable way to play defensively at high skill. The best we have there so far is Project M, and even there, defensive characters just don't do as well as aggressive characters with equally skilled players. It should be an even matchup, or as close as possible to an even matchup, and that's effectively impossible to get right on one try. I'm hoping Sakurai aims for something like that and works on balance 'til it's done.

And if I recall, Marth's Shield Breaker deals about half a shield's health without charge, last I saw, in Smash4.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

I really dislike the notion that the game has to be similar to melee to be competitively viable. If Brawl was passable and it was different, this game will be fine.

I'm confident a sufficient number of people will embrace the differences between Smash 4 and Melee/Brawl and establish a nationwide competitive scene.

I don't think the discussion can really go further than that.

 

[Senario]

Smash is already mocked by all the fighting game communities I'm aware of.

And, while I'm certainly no pro, it has always seemed to me like the only ways to prevent someone from abusing a shield are to threaten with grabs or constant pressure and the threat of shattering. I agree with your point that there should be a reason to reward aggressive play, but most of the other games (bar Brawl which overdid the defense) went too far so that there was not a viable way to play defensively at high skill. The best we have there so far is Project M, and even there, defensive characters just don't do as well as aggressive characters with equally skilled players. It should be an even matchup, or as close as possible to an even matchup, and that's effectively impossible to get right on one try. I'm hoping Sakurai aims for something like that and works on balance 'til it's done.

And if I recall, Marth's Shield Breaker deals about half a shield's health without charge, last I saw, in Smash4.

Well what I mean is that if we have to start DQ'ing people we will start to be taken less seriously. Disqualification isn't used in competitive settings unless there are serious offenses like cheating or unsportsmanlike conduct.

I think the whole offense/defense thing is something you have to skew one way or the other. It is extremely difficult to be both. For example, I like using blazblue a lot: Blazblue 1 was extremely defensive. Lots of map control and lots of defense and less about pressuring your opponent with attacks. It was ok, but players generally didn't like not being able to have offensive playstyles much. Fast forward to Chrono Phantasma and we have a game where Offense is the dominant playstyle, if only because pressure makes people mess up and when people mess up they get combo'ed and can't get away. However defensive characters still have their own bag of tricks and can use them. It is much harder to use them/win with them because the devs realize that defensive play isn't fun to watch, but they can do it and they actually have combos that work with their keep away nature rather than pokes until death. It is a good way to do defensive balance where the majority of the game is exciting offense but these characters have good keep away combos instead of 1-2 pokes then back to neutral.

 

[Jordo]

Besides looking at the game from a mechanics perspective, something that I thought about that shouldn't be overlooked is macro issues that could affect the competitiveness of Smash 4. Nintendo has clearly been trying to instill a competitive spirit into their games prior to release. Whether this is just a strategy to promote the game and then they'll be disengaged after release, a "hit it and quit it" if you may, remains to be seen, but this could also be a harbinger of things to come. If nintendo really starts to contribute serious resources to competitive smash, it could only increase the "competiveness" of smash 4, for both editions. I'm not saying it's going to be like the national pokemon championships, but it could very much be like the early stages of the pokemon league. Back in 1999, nintendo did a series of tournaments on the road for red and blue. I could see nintendo doing this starting out, having tournaments for both versions of smash 4. This leads into maybe having their own major championship again at E3 2015, but with no-nonsense rules this time. They could cause people to come out in droves. Of course nintendo's tournaments operate independent of smash's competitive scene, but if nintendo does gangbusters at their own tournaments, it could result in organizations like MLG getting behind smash 4.

This version of smash has the potential of getting more people into smash and wanting to play competitively than any other installment. Two consoles, one mobile, one hd, online (please be good) with friends, online (please again) for glory. The gate to entry is HUGE. If nintendo backs it, it's just a matter of time until promoters want in on that growing base because ultimately, they want as many people attending as they can having a good time and coming together. Also people want to go where the $$$ prizes are. If big promoters with cash are promoting smash 4, it'd be hard pressed to not want to compete for that. Nintendo goes the scholarship route with pokemon, I could see them going that route if they got that serious too.

So maybe, instead of just determining whether or not a game will be a good competitive game based on the proportion of offense to defense, we should additionally ask ourselves if the game will be good competitive game because of the accessibility of creating competition in of itself. Maybe this will all come to pass, maybe it won't, but I just thought it was an alternative to the consistent, but also necessary debate on game mechanics.

Ultimately, I'm excited just to destroy scrubs online on two consoles and in the midwest. The more the merrier!

 

[Plain Yogurt]

And, while I'm certainly no pro, it has always seemed to me like the only ways to prevent someone from abusing a shield are to threaten with grabs or constant pressure and the threat of shattering.

The problem with that is that from what we've seen so far only one of those three tactics is reasonably effective and that's the grab. Fast shield drops and high lag on moves makes pressure hard to use effectively, and the only truly devastating shield breakers I've seen are Bowser Bomb and Marth's B, whose entire job is to break shields anyways. Sure shield damage seems to be increased, but if you get punished for it anyways because of the lack of shield stun wouldn't the shield regenerate the damage by the time you recovered from the punish? How fast are shields regenerating anyways? Anyone got an estimate?

 

[Raijinken]

The problem with that is that from what we've seen so far only one of those three tactics is reasonably effective and that's the grab.

I think the whole offense/defense thing is something you have to skew one way or the other. It is extremely difficult to be just one.

I agree with both your points (though honestly the neutral game is my favorite part of Smash, since it's the most mind-game-y part from my point of view, and is the only part where both players have full range of options). But unlike many, I don't think these issues (if they're present in the final version, which we'll have to see) will be an issue for the game's competitive viability in the long run, especially if Sakurai actually does undertake balance patches (which I sincerely hope he does). If Melee's competitive scene can survive with only a quarter of its roster considered viable, then I'm sure Smash4 will last a while still.

 

[Senario]

I agree with both your points (though honestly the neutral game is my favorite part of Smash, since it's the most mind-game-y part from my point of view, and is the only part where both players have full range of options). But unlike many, I don't think these issues (if they're present in the final version, which we'll have to see) will be an issue for the game's competitive viability in the long run, especially if Sakurai actually does undertake balance patches (which I sincerely hope he does). If Melee's competitive scene can survive with only a quarter of its roster considered viable, then I'm sure Smash4 will last a while still.

I meant both, extremely hard to be both offensive and defense equally. You have to skew towards one side more. Marvel, Blazblue, and Melee skew towards offense though that isn't to say there isn't defensive options: Hence the neutral game in all three games. Street fighter is more defensive and all about the neutral game.

 

[Venks]

If nintendo really starts to contribute serious resources to competitive smash, it could only increase the "competiveness" of smash 4, for both editions. I'm not saying it's going to be like the national pokemon championships, but it could very much be like the early stages of the pokemon league. Back in 1999, nintendo did a series of tournaments on the road for red and blue. I could see nintendo doing this starting out, having tournaments for both versions of smash 4. This leads into maybe having their own major championship again at E3 2015, but with no-nonsense rules this time. They could cause people to come out in droves. Of course nintendo's tournaments operate independent of smash's competitive scene, but if nintendo does gangbusters at their own tournaments, it could result in organizations like MLG getting behind smash 4.

I'd love for Smash Bros to get the same treatment as Pokemon in terms of Nintendo run tournaments. Here in Australia the big N brought in people from the competitive Pokemon community to help run both the regional and national tournaments. This kind of exposure easily makes any iteration of Pokemon incredibly competitive with large numbers of entrants.

 

[Mr. KoopaTurtle]

Wow, I didn't even realize the 3DS version will be complete very soon. I guess what we've seen on the 3DS will remain largely the same by launch...

 

[Aunt Jemima]

>e3 version made in march/april

>uses 6 months to add robin and lucina

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

So, let me get this straight:

The game doesn't seem to be running at 50x speed, and people can actually defend and evade safely without learning an esoteric physics exploit to move about instead of being forced to attackattackattack without even a moment's pause...

WHELP, GAME SUCKS, NO ONE BUY IT, IT'S GARBAGE.

The game needs to have nothing but action, constantly 24/7 and no one can defend because I don't want to pause anything for more than a second. Everyone needs to slide around minus traction and every hit must go into at least a 9 hit combo if I hit you with the tip of my character's foot.



(Honestly, people keep saying how the game won't change. If it wont change, stop complaining about it and stop trying to ruin Sm4sh like everyone tried to ruin Brawl. If you don't like it, fine, but leave the rest of us who are actually excited for the game alone. Criticizing won't do any good if Sakurai/Nintendo won't change or believe it's too late to change things. All it does it make you sound bitter and bring back memories of the days of old where SWF was nothing but a cesspool of hate on Brawl because it wasn't The-Game-That-Must-Not-Be-Named.)

 

[Mr. KoopaTurtle]

So, let me get this straight:

The game doesn't seem to be running at 50x speed, and people can actually defend and evade safely without learning an esoteric physics exploit to move about instead of being forced to attackattackattack without even a moment's pause...

WHELP, GAME SUCKS, NO ONE BUY IT, IT'S GARBAGE.

The game needs to have nothing but action, constantly 24/7 and no one can defend because I don't want to pause anything for more than a second. Everyone needs to slide around minus traction and every hit must go into at least a 9 hit combo if I hit you with the tip of my character's foot.



(Honestly, people keep saying how the game won't change. If it wont change, stop complaining about it and stop trying to ruin Sm4sh like everyone tried to ruin Brawl. If you don't like it, fine, but leave the rest of us who are actually excited for the game alone. Criticizing won't do any good if Sakurai/Nintendo won't change or believe it's too late to change things. All it does it make you sound bitter and bring back memories of the days of old where SWF was nothing but a cesspool of hate on Brawl because it wasn't The-Game-That-Must-Not-Be-Named.)

Who in this thread are you directing this at exactly?

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

The way I see it:

Melee = Marvel vs Capcom

Smash 4 = Street Fighter

Both great games to play from the same company. Just a different feel to them.


Smash 4 will be fine.

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

Who in this thread are you directing this at exactly?

No one in particular, just the mentality of some people in this thread. It irritates me that despite attempts at trying to put the game at a balance between the last two ones, it's never good enough for the hardcore-competitive crowd. It's revealed that the speed has been increased, but no, it's not fast enough. It's been revealed that there are actually combos in this game? Not enough combos, still too defensive, ect.

To top it off, people are still complaining or, "critiquing" the game (which, by the way, hasn't even come out yet) even though they'll turn around and say that Sakurai or Nintendo won't change a thing! So what's the point then, in complaining, when it won't change anything besides simply to tell everyone how the game that they're getting excited for sucks and that they're probably going to be stigmatized like the Brawl fans were (and to an extent, still are.)

 

[Senario]

The way I see it:

Melee = Marvel vs Capcom

Smash 4 = Street Fighter

Both great games to play from the same company. Just a different feel to them.


Smash 4 will be fine.

What it should be is Melee = MvC2, Smash 4 = UMvC3, both of these games play differently but have offense at their core and the new one is "good enough" for a show at EVO.

Verdict is still out on smash 4 but eeeeh.

Brawl = Street fighter 4 vanilla but less interesting due to how much longer smash games last than traditional fighting games.

 

[LancerStaff]

If the enemy shields, grab him. Or harass him from a range. Or use one of the numerous shield-killing moves.

But seriously, they've increased endlag on so many things (practically all that has to do with air) that if you can't find a way to punish, you're not searching hard enough. If players play campy and boring, don't play with them. If TOs think it's a bad habit, punish it with disqualification to keep games interesting.

And furthermore, a game rewarding defensive play does not make it bad, it makes it different, and heaven forbid something not be a clone of Melee.

That doesn't work. First, there is no definite line between offense and defense. And second, even if you somehow managed to define said line, then the object of the game would be to skirt as close to said line as possible.

Compare banning Snaking from MKDS. What's the difference between Snaking and simply getting an extra MT on the end of a turn? Even if you limit it, people will get as close to said edge as possible.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Melee isn't like MvC...then again my opinion on that series really just dims the more I see how gameplay really takes play in both MvC games.

 

[ShredPix]

You know, the thread was pretty nice before people started jumping in and getting unreasonably defensive.

That being said, I think the focus on defense will still be strong (to my joy), but yesterday has presented a reasonable amount of counters to that to prevent it to be the only way to play. I wish to see more of this in the future.

 

[Skyblade12]

You know, the thread was pretty nice before people started jumping in and getting unreasonably defensive.

Apparently with the new shield mechanics, getting defensive is the only way to play.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

Apparently with the new shield mechanics, getting defensive is the only way to play.

Until they break because of their nerfed durability because your opponent is all up in your grill because you're abusing it.

Sounds like balance.

 

[Senario]

Until they break because of their nerfed durability because your opponent is all up in your grill because you're abusing it.

Sounds like balance.

It would be, if shield pressure options work. Just saying, nerfed durability is great but if you can't pressure the shield a single hit or two before they shield grab you won't break the shield. Bowser bomb and Marth B are designed to break shields or are heavy hitting moves so they are pretty inconclusive on general shield durability. We haven't seen a lot of people pressuring a shield as an option as opposed to grabbing the opponent. If only one of these two work then it becomes extremely easy to read because if you were shielding you know your opponent only has one option so you counter that option, no mindgames involved.

In general we don't know how good shield pressure options are at the moment. So holding judgement on if the nerfed durability will mean anything as long as the shield can take enough hits for a shield grab it is more defensive.

 

[ferioku]

We already have enough of these threads... how many freaking times should people repeat this... IT'S AN EARLY BUILD. Complaining over every little thing is not helping

 

[ShredPix]

We already have enough of these threads... how many freaking times should people repeat this... IT'S AN EARLY BUILD. Complaining over every little thing is not helping

And commenting like this adds nothing to the conversation.

 

[ferioku]

And commenting like this adds nothing to the conversation.

I'm not trying to converse with anyone here, I'm stating FACTS. It doesn't even look like critisism anymore, it's like they're genuinely looking for reasons to bash this game everyday. the only reason the games were shield heavy is because they were using bowser, bowsers tend to shield a lot in melee anyway so why make a huge deal over it?

 

[Cap'nChreest]

I'm not trying to converse with anyone here, I'm stating FACTS. It doesn't even look like critisism anymore, it's like they're genuinely looking for reasons to bash this game everyday.

If this were genuinely a hate thread it would've been locked long ago.

Until they break because of their nerfed durability because your opponent is all up in your grill because you're abusing it.

Sounds like balance.

I'd like to think that shield pressuring has been buffed but maybe there are some moves that break shields and all others function reasonably the same as before against them. I was watching some matches from the 3ds tourney over and I didn't see any tiny shields. It largely could be from the fact that people haven't been playing the game long enough to learn how to pressure shields correctly. I hope that shields got a good nerf in this game.

 

[ShredPix]

I'm not trying to converse with anyone here, I'm stating FACTS. It doesn't even look like critisism anymore, it's like they're genuinely looking for reasons to bash this game everyday. the only reason the games were shield heavy is because they were using bowser, bowsers tend to shield a lot in melee anyway so why make a huge deal over it?

Would you not discuss the build that developers see as fit to present? It would be awfully boring if we chose to not discuss this, and if this issue of shielding is of importance it shall be discussed. And I say discuss rather than inhibiting it like this. And honestly, this thread has been rather good at keeping it civil for the most part with both sides having valid points and presenting them well.

 

[ferioku]

If this were genuinely a hate thread it would've been locked long ago.




I'd like to think that shield pressuring has been buffed but maybe there are some moves that break shields and all others function reasonably the same as before against them. I was watching some matches from the 3ds tourney over and I didn't see any tiny shields. It largely could be from the fact that people haven't been playing the game long enough to learn how to pressure shields correctly. I hope that shields got a good nerf in this game.

We have like billions of threads similar to this =/, why does everyone have to make one whenever the find something that's not even much of a big deal?

 

[Shaya]

Posts dedicated to complaining about a thread's existence are pretty asinine. Emphasis on the as.
We'll let you know when the thread is going somewhere negative, or close it if it gets completely cyclical. A very solid conversation has been happening in this thread and to come in here to post your one sentence "opinion" (literally a rule breaking one) and coerce people to be distracted by it? Quite rude, consider stopping.

 

[Katy Parry]

If the enemy shields, grab him. Or harass him from a range. Or use one of the numerous shield-killing moves.

But seriously, they've increased endlag on so many things (practically all that has to do with air) that if you can't find a way to punish, you're not searching hard enough. If players play campy and boring, don't play with them. If TOs think it's a bad habit, punish it with disqualification to keep games interesting.

And furthermore, a game rewarding defensive play does not make it bad, it makes it different, and heaven forbid something not be a clone of Melee.

This 100%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

I mean, I understand your his point, but I just feel we've glorified Melee to the point to where we compare it to everything, and thus nothing can ever can really shine or stand on its own.

In the OP, you stated how Melee had the perfect "balance" of everything, and I really believe that's just because you're accustomed a 13 year old game, and that's okay, and its your opinion. But I do strongly feel that this game is going to be 100% completely viable.

I mean...you stated how this will be punish heavy...isn't that how Melee already is?

For example, if you're Zelda and you just in the air into a Marth, if he gets a f-air off on you, you really have no options until you land or he misses, because he's just going to keep fairing you, and you won't be able to do anything but take it. How is that fair? (No pun intended)

Isn't that severe punishment? Couldn't think game's version of this in fact be shield dropping? Doesn't it level the playing field knowing you can shield drop just as fast as your enemy?

Does that make this game more competitive? I'm not finding anything to be upset about.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

Would you not discuss the build that developers see as fit to present? It would be awfully boring if we chose to not discuss this, and if this issue of shielding is of importance it shall be discussed. And I say discuss rather than inhibiting it like this. And honestly, this thread has been rather good at keeping it civil for the most part with both sides having valid points and presenting them well.

Well, said build is known for freezing, not activating certain events, trapping people in transformations, and displaying improper scores. It may have been the best they had, but it's very clearly not finished. And since they were taking critiques I imagine there was still some development wiggle room. It's really hard to make absolutes about something in its beta state. I imagine many opinions will be changing when the final game is in our hands and people can sink a couple thousand hours into it.

Basically, it's fine to discuss, but always remember that at any point the conversation can be rendered moot.

 

[Kuragari]

Good question, to which most would just tell you to play whichever you think is better, seeing as how "better" is generally pretty subjective when the differences between games can be considered somewhat minute compared to other generation jump modifications many franchises go through.

If you have an argument or a suggestion for helping Smash 4 stand out as a brand new iteration of the franchise, with it's own potential to be held in its own right away from the predecessors, do please complain (constructively). Alas, that is not what you do, and don't try to act like it is. Instead it's nothing but cries and whimpers that this and this mechanic is not identical to Melee, why can't this be like Melee, why don't they have a Melee Mode (wtf), I mean for chemists sake, it's exhausting and downright pretentious.

Have you considered that many of us want exactly the opposite? That while we enjoyed Melee, that we seek something fresh and innovative because we are tired and bored of the same top players skirmish each other year after year, the same top % character match ups, the same exact techniques and old-gen style of Melee?

We appear to take offense to this nonsense for a pretty damn good reason, because we feel like you're being toxic to the general and necessary evolution of the Smash formula. A lot of us want something new and different, not more of the very old and same, no matter how well Melee's mechanics lended itself to its competitive following.

If you like Melee, play Melee, but please, try to keep quiet about a game you really have no bone in whether it succeeds or not simply because you've already decided Melee is still the best.

Very well said there

 

[Hitaku]

We have like billions of threads similar to this =/, why does everyone have to make one whenever the find something that's not even much of a big deal?

The issue is that it is actually a big deal. There are a lot of people (myself included) that want this game to be successful. When you look at Brawl and Melee it's obvious which has survived the test of time. I myself am a Brawl player, that being said, I think Melee is one of the most fantastic mistakes that will happen within my lifetime. People can say all they want about it, but the fact of the matter is, it's still going strong. In fact, not only is it still going strong, it's actually gaining in its popularity. There's a reason for this, it's not just a random chance. When people look at Smash 4 they want to see similar characteristics to Melee because that's truly our best definition of success in a Super Smash Bros game.

Let me start by saying that Smash 4 does not need to be the same game as Melee. It does, however, need to be competitive. Oftentimes, when reading posts that critique the game, people confuse the desire for faster game play, more combos, and less camping with the desire for a Melee 2.0. All these people really want is a game that's equally amazing! Like I said before, these characteristics just happen to have the highest chance of bringing this game towards that goal. In the end, if it reaches it by other means that's fine, it's just scary to rely on something new when we don't know it will play out.

While I may not have as much time with the game as some, I've clocked 3 days of non stop play in a line of only 4 people. Though it has Brawls engine, it does not feel as slow or defensive. With the removal of planking, I feel like we've already shaved off a very large amount of time from our matches. In addition to this, I feel that with the reintroduction of combos, we have more motivation to actually move towards our opponents. I've been seeing people compare Brawl with Street Fighter a lot in this thread, and while I do think that it's a valid comparison, Street Fighter is able to achieve something with its defensive play style that Brawl is not. In Street Fighter the opponents are often directly next to each other poking back and forth (footsies). Despite characters being on the defensive, anything could happen at any moment. Quick changes in the flow of the game is what keeps people locked onto the screen. Unfortunately, in Brawl, it's typical to only get this reaction from players towards the end of the final stocks. Typically mid match you can look away for 20 seconds only to miss a few percent. This is a problem for those spectating. Keeping people on the edge of their seat is important. I hope that Smash 4 will be able to do this for us, combos are definitely a good start!

The real issue with these kinds of threads is that deep down everyone is scared that this game isn't going to succeed. Because of this, unwarranted panic and defense alike spread throughout it leaving knowledgeable comments behind. There is reason for concern, the demo being an unfinished product does not mean that issues will be fixed. However, It’s equally important to understand that worrying too much won’t change the outcome of the game. Take this information in stride, think about what it could mean for the game, and move on and enjoy your day.

 

[Bladeviper]

Wow, I didn't even realize the 3DS version will be complete very soon. I guess what we've seen on the 3DS will remain largely the same by launch...

not really the build is old, just because it launches soon does not mean what we had at e3 is going to be the same, it might mind you but its pretty well known at this point the build we got was from march or earlier

 

[guedes the brawler]

Smash is already mocked by all the fighting game communities I'm aware of.

smash is mocked because it's "nintendo kiddy" (most TFC have plenty of dudebros) and becaus epeople can't accept that Fighting/Platformer is still fighting