Advanced Techniques in Brawl

[Pip]

Thanks, but I'm a Falco player

That's great, but you implied that you wanted to know what the general appeal of the technique was, not just whether it was any good for you.

I dont see what there is to wave dashing that everyone likes.

So when someone tries to offer you three examples to show you why someone might want to learn how to wavedash, you shouldn't just take the stance that "I don't play those characters so I don't care." (If I'm misinterpreting your comment then I apologize.)

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

I do personally think everyone's WD should be the same length. I'm sorry but Luigi is not suppose to be as fast as Fox. Period

Yeah, but he's still low tier. Why would you gimp him even more? He worked great in ssb64 because his Uair chains went into up b which was death. You cant kill anyone with up b in ssbm, and luigi without his wavedash would be an awkward character probably below mewtwo were it the case.

His wavedash exploits his one advantage that he has, low traction. He wavedashes just like.. without even having to do the WD just put up your shield and you slide.. so sliding is a part of the game of smash and it should stay in brawl. You could slide off platforms in ssb64 and infact it led to some of the hardest and most satisfying combos.

Think, what would removing wd do? Why not keep it, but add NEW things, that maybe conjoined with wavedashing sould make a whole new area of play?

 

[Sandy]

So when someone tries to offer you three examples to show you why someone might want to learn how to wavedash, you shouldn't just take the stance that "I don't play those characters so I don't care." (If I'm misinterpreting your comment then I apologize.)

I know how to wavedash, but I really don't see how it helps your game. (Sorry Dylan)

 

[Takalth]

I know how to wavedash, but I really don't see how it helps your game. (Sorry Dylan)

If you believe that:

1) there's no benefit in a faster ledge hog.

2) there's no benefit to quicker horizontal movement from a shine or shield

3) there's no benefit to doing a smash hit while moving

4) there's no benefit to being able to suddenly change direction.


Then yes, you have a case IF you can explain why. Tell me why ice climbers gain no benefit from doing a downsmash while sliding along the ground or why there is no use for wavedashing out of a shine for a quicker attack, and you'll actually have something to discuss.

 

[The Hypnotist]

I see the difference. All those characters have a better fighting chance thanks to wave dashing. Luigi in particular would be a pretty broken character without it.

Broken means unfair, Luigi would be the complete opposite of broken without WDing.

For Sand Tiger...

You don't wavedash to edgehog?

 

[RDK]

What you have to realize, though, that wavedashing, etc. was not meant to initially be in the game; I.E., it was a mistake.

Why would you want to stop playing the game if the mistake was "removed"?

I'm not saying I'm for wavedashing, etc. to get the shaft--I like using advanced techs, too. I'm just trying to get all of your opinions on the matter.

P.S:

I know how to wavedash, but I really don't see how it helps your game.

Lol, what?

 

[v3x?]

I love wavedashing, but i could easily replace it with dashdancing and empty shffls lol.

As for sandtiger: Wavedashing can help dramaticly... But it is not needed by all means - take aniki for example, he still gave ken a good run for his money lol.

As a tech fox player, i HAVE to wavedash lol

 

[Aquarius]

No offense guys, but don’t you think the whole thing is getting a little crazy. Everybody is trying to come up with this perfect opinion and it’s impossible. It just seems like a lot of people are trying to be martyrs on both sides, and its tearing the smash community in half. melee is a superb game, the idea of wavedashing add an amazing complexity to the game. But Smash 64 was also an amazing game with out it. I think braw will be an amazing game with or without it. Nintendo has never let me down with a game yet. And the idea that people are making this preconceived notion about a game that is not even out yet is just crazy. It’s like politics, republicans and democrats. People will follow something blindly because they either want change or because they don’t want change. There’s always gonna be people that like things the way they are, and people who want something different. But there are also people like me that are dead in the middle. I’ve see players like Bomb Soldier that use wavedashing effortlessly and there game play style is phenomenal, but I have also seen pros like Aniki, that are just as amazing and can destroy wavesashers with out having to at all. But I think are amazing example of two distinct playing styles that are both a tribute to the game. So if you don’t wanna play brawl because there no wavedashing that’s cool, you guys are happy where your at and that’s understandable, you don’t need anything new, you like the game where it is that’s fine. And people that talk smack about people boycotting the game if there is no wave dashing. Just let it go there not stopping you from playing the game so why does it matter its there choice, who knows, they might be missing out. But these threads just talk in circles and nothing gets resolved. People just end up getting pissed over a VIDEO GAME(but still a very awesome game). So lets just stop the madness . “get of soap box”

 

[RDK]

No offense guys, but don’t you think the whole thing is getting a little crazy. Everybody is trying to come up with this perfect opinion and it’s impossible. It just seems like a lot of people are trying to be martyrs on both sides, and its tearing the smash community in half. melee is a superb game, the idea of wavedashing add an amazing complexity to the game. But Smash 64 was also an amazing game with out it. I think braw will be an amazing game with or without it. Nintendo has never let me down with a game yet. And the idea that people are making this preconceived notion about a game that is not even out yet is just crazy. It’s like politics, republicans and democrats. People will follow something blindly because they either want change or because they don’t want change. There’s always gonna be people that like things the way they are, and people who want something different. But there are also people like me that are dead in the middle. I’ve see players like Bomb Soldier that use wavedashing effortlessly and there game play style is phenomenal, but I have also seen pros like Aniki, that are just as amazing and can destroy wavesashers with out having to at all. But I think are amazing example of two distinct playing styles that are both a tribute to the game. So if you don’t wanna play brawl because there no wavedashing that’s cool, you guys are happy where your at and that’s understandable, you don’t need anything new, you like the game where it is that’s fine. And people that talk smack about people boycotting the game if there is no wave dashing. Just let it go there not stopping you from playing the game so why does it matter its there choice, who knows, they might be missing out. But these threads just talk in circles and nothing gets resolved. People just end up getting pissed over a VIDEO GAME(but still a very awesome game). So lets just stop the madness

Talk about overly dramatic. No one is screaming, here...at least I don't think.

“get of soap box”

Wha?

 

[killbeast301]

Talk about overly dramatic. No one is screaming, here...at least I don't think.

No, noone's screaming, yet. We are however using very stern voices.

 

[Pip]

No offense guys, but don’t you think the whole thing is getting a little crazy. Everybody is trying to come up with this perfect opinion and it’s impossible. It just seems like a lot of people are trying to be martyrs on both sides, and its tearing the smash community in half. melee is a superb game, the idea of wavedashing add an amazing complexity to the game. But Smash 64 was also an amazing game with out it. I think braw will be an amazing game with or without it. Nintendo has never let me down with a game yet. And the idea that people are making this preconceived notion about a game that is not even out yet is just crazy. It’s like politics, republicans and democrats. People will follow something blindly because they either want change or because they don’t want change. There’s always gonna be people that like things the way they are, and people who want something different. But there are also people like me that are dead in the middle. I’ve see players like Bomb Soldier that use wavedashing effortlessly and there game play style is phenomenal, but I have also seen pros like Aniki, that are just as amazing and can destroy wavesashers with out having to at all. But I think are amazing example of two distinct playing styles that are both a tribute to the game. So if you don’t wanna play brawl because there no wavedashing that’s cool, you guys are happy where your at and that’s understandable, you don’t need anything new, you like the game where it is that’s fine. And people that talk smack about people boycotting the game if there is no wave dashing. Just let it go there not stopping you from playing the game so why does it matter its there choice, who knows, they might be missing out. But these threads just talk in circles and nothing gets resolved. People just end up getting pissed over a VIDEO GAME(but still a very awesome game). So lets just stop the madness . “get of soap box”

It's the express purpose of this thread to discuss whether we'll have wavedashing in Brawl and the implications thereof. Unfortunately, this issue is unable to be completely separated from people's personal preferences on the subject since the affect on the community reaction to brawl will be a major implication of the decision. Subsequently, it's a topic that is bound to generate a little heat. Some of us do our best to mitigate that by being as polite and cordial as we can be while still getting our point across, but there's only so much that can be done about it.

If it's a discussion you're not interested in having then you certainly don't have to. We're still talking about it, however, because we're still interested in hearing other people's views and/or reasonings and in expressing our own.

Wha?

I believe he was attempting to emote that he was getting off his metaphorical soapbox.

 

[NintendoWarrior]

I'm curious, are there any pros who don't use wavedashing? LOL, I can only imagine what a person might look like trying to wavedash using the Wii Remote.

 

[180OP]

Thanks, but I'm a Falco player

Wavedash is key for Falco to link his combos. Watch Bombsoldier vids. There is no way without waveshining Falco would be able to chase a combo on a Fox DI. BS vs Masashi.

Here is a break down.
WDing is used for:
1)mindgames.
2)linking combos.
3)cutting time to get from point A to point B.
4) moving forward or backward without compromising the ability to do smash attacks or other attacks. You can also move backwards without turning around.
5)Wavedashing into a Smash attack, backwards or forwards. Can be used as a spacing guard with Marth. Watch Azen videos.
6) to instantly grab a ledge.
7)baiting. PC Chris does this to M2K at Evo 2007. he dashes with fox towards M2K then wavedashes backwards to bait him into doing a move that lags enough for Fox to go for a grab or dashcancel upsmash whatever you want.
8)wavelanding. When you are free falling for the sky and lost your jump, you will mostly land into a smash attack. you opponent will wait for that. well if you waveland he will miss that attack and be a little vulnerable but the main point is, you wont be smashed. Wavelanding off platforms would go into mindgames and linking combos.
9)waveshining. Breaking out of your shine instantly to chase down your opponent.
10)spacing and avoiding hits.

That's all i can think of. But does it surprise you that the top 20 or 30 people smashers in the world all incorporate wavedashing into their game? Even Bum's DK.

Go ahead and add to the list.

 

[RDK]

No, noone's screaming, yet. We are however using very stern voices.

I can only imagine what a person might look like trying to wavedash using the Wii Remote.

Like a ********, physically deformed Nazi monkey giving the Hitler salute repeatedly.

 

[Pip]

I'm curious, are there any pros who don't use wavedashing?

There's Aniki, who v3x? already mentioned above. Do a youtube search for him.

 

[Impmacaque]

Wavedashing in SSBM is the result of a simple mechanic: Air Dodging into the ground. I, as with many others, find it highly unlikely that the WD mechanic is pure coincidence; I mean honestly - do you think the SSBM testing team didn't see what happened when you dodged towards the ground at an angle?

That said, judging from the gameplay vid - the basics of the smash engine seem largely intact. I noticed what seemed like a few L-cancels in the 4-player shot, short hop distance and height seemed intact, etc. I think we will be pleasantly suprised to find the smash engine entirely intact, with only *additions* made. (In fact, the mario recovery shot series shows that they've kept *exactly* the same vertical/horizontal coverage as it had in Melee - if things like this are unchanged, I doubt much else will be..)

Seriously, I doubt us veteran melee players will be total noobs when we get into Brawl. I forsee us dissecting the ins-and-outs of character revamps and new abilities, but I doubt our basic grasp on fundamental advance tactics will have shifted much. Expect wavedashing and the rest of it.

 

[Kelexo]

I hate the idea that someone would have an advantage over someone else who simply isn't aware of the tactic. Of course, if it was made official, then I'd see it as being okay, but seeing as how it's simply a technique brought up by a 'glitch', it's like using some sort of glitch to teleport you from one place to another. I don't use wavedashing, mostly because I didn't get it at first and I don't feel like trying to get better by a glitch. I'm not saying it's incredibly wrong, but it feels unfair to those who don't know about it.

 

[psicicle]

Tell people about it. Wavedashing only adds depth to melee, and I don't think there is any reason to take it out.
Kelexo, www.sirlin.net
check out playing to win.

Wavedash being a glitch or not has no bearing on its removal or not in Brawl. The devs are not one-minded, they are going to want something that the smash community likes. I'm sure that they were happy when wavedashing was found and it added depth to smash bros. This is all speculation, but can somebody please tell me why it would not be in brawl?

 

[Adi]

I agree with the fact that they should probably tell people in the instruction booklet about various advanced techniques but it is certainly not a glitch and does certainly not need to be removed.

 

[180OP]

I hate the idea that someone would have an advantage over someone else who simply isn't aware of the tactic. Of course, if it was made official, then I'd see it as being okay, but seeing as how it's simply a technique brought up by a 'glitch', it's like using some sort of glitch to teleport you from one place to another. I don't use wavedashing, mostly because I didn't get it at first and I don't feel like trying to get better by a glitch. I'm not saying it's incredibly wrong, but it feels unfair to those who don't know about it.

If the devs told you EVERYTHING then where are the surprises? how do you expect evolution in the Smash community? Nintendo only tell us the basics of the game have caused people to go far and beyond and share waht they knew on Smashboards.com. And this is true for any game. Look at the BXR tactic of Halo 2. they found it out and it is very useful and a must for competitive gameplay.

who cares if it is a glitch. It definitely is an incredibly useful tactic. You will find yourself ***** in tournaments or even by decent players of locale. Aniki is an exception, his play style is totally different and his mindgames are out of this world.

Unfair to those who don't know? I will say they are at a disadvantage. But hey, why is smashboards here for? I personally would maul a noob so he wouldn't start the bs "oh wavedashing is not useful, I dont understand it blah blah,".

EDIT: I wish nintendo doesn't disclose advanced techniques for brawl. I love to see the smash community come together and compile what we know.

It is all about the satisfaction of figuring things out to give you the edge in the game.

 

[Speedsk8er]

I, like the famous Dylan_Tnga refuse to play Brawl if there is no wavedashing. I'm basically the only other skilled member of our crew the crew as a whole has decided, including my 12 year old sister Chelsea, that if there is no wavedashing in brawl. We boycott it.

You both are idiots.

 

[psicicle]

You both are idiots.

Nice post, elaborations and everything!

Boycott seems like the wrong word to use, but why is somebody an idiot for not playing a game that he or she does not want to play? If I preferred SSB64 to melee would I be an idiot because melee is "obviously" better?

Just because it is a sequel, SSBB is not neccessarily better than melee. For one thing, better is subjective. For another thing, new does not equal better. Everybody who is saying that SSBB will be better than SSBM is talking out of their *** for the time being.

I personally will play brawl, wavedashing or not, but if it turns out to suck even after giving it extensive time, I will go back to melee. I think that it will probably be an improvement, or at least be something else I can play though.

 

[BrTarolg]

Wavedash is key for Falco to link his combos. Watch Bombsoldier vids. There is no way without waveshining Falco would be able to chase a combo on a Fox DI. BS vs Masashi.

Here is a break down.
WDing is used for:
1)mindgames.
2)linking combos.
3)cutting time to get from point A to point B.
4) moving forward or backward without compromising the ability to do smash attacks or other attacks. You can also move backwards without turning around.
5)Wavedashing into a Smash attack, backwards or forwards. Can be used as a spacing guard with Marth. Watch Azen videos.
6) to instantly grab a ledge.
7)baiting. PC Chris does this to M2K at Evo 2007. he dashes with fox towards M2K then wavedashes backwards to bait him into doing a move that lags enough for Fox to go for a grab or dashcancel upsmash whatever you want.
8)wavelanding. When you are free falling for the sky and lost your jump, you will mostly land into a smash attack. you opponent will wait for that. well if you waveland he will miss that attack and be a little vulnerable but the main point is, you wont be smashed. Wavelanding off platforms would go into mindgames and linking combos.
9)waveshining. Breaking out of your shine instantly to chase down your opponent.
10)spacing and avoiding hits.

That's all i can think of. But does it surprise you that the top 20 or 30 people smashers in the world all incorporate wavedashing into their game? Even Bum's DK.

Go ahead and add to the list.

im sorry, but WD is just an outdated technique

those are OLD BS vids there are hundreds of falcos who are better now than he was back then

9 of those points are done better with dashing. ONE of those points is doing better with wavedashing

see just how more important dashing is?

yes, dashing is better than wavelanding. firstly, the lag for wavelanding and dashing is EXACTLY the same, except with dashing you have WAY more control over your direction if your technique is good enough

 

[psicicle]

no, the lag for a dash is lower if you are in a very precise window and a lot more if you go outside the "dashdancing" range, unlecc you cancel the dash with pressing down on the control stick. Wavedashing allows for a different option, and because it incorporates a jump, you can do it out of a shield/shine. It allows for fairly good control for position and for characters like the ICs and Luigi, it is essential.

Also, dashing to ledgehog requires an INSANE amount of tach skill and precision, so although it would be done a little better with dashing, wavedashing is far easier. I assume that the one point you are talking about is the waveshining of course. Also, you need to specify which characters you are talking about- for several, WD is better than dashing for a lot of those points.

Wavelanding is better isn't it? At least, with the ice climbers it is more useful than their slow dash.

Wondering, how do you know that those falcos are better? Have they actually played each other because otherwise it would be very hard to tell.

 

[Pip]

EDIT: I wish nintendo doesn't disclose advanced techniques for brawl. I love to see the smash community come together and compile what we know.

It is all about the satisfaction of figuring things out to give you the edge in the game.

Ah, but most likely every advanced technique that the devs will knowingly have in the game is one that the online community has already figured out. Most of these new things that you're eager to figure out on your own are things that the developers may not realize are there anyway.

I personally played Melee for many years without knowing about most of these advanced techniques. Was it because I and the others I played with didn't care as much or weren't as committed to the game? Absolutely not. It was because we simply weren't in touch with the larger smash community and our development as Smash players was hindered as a result. Admittedly, the advent of online play for Smash will probably mitigate this problem somewhat, but I'd rather the developers not risk anyone falling behind because they assumed that the developers would have told them any important elements of playing Smash. I'm in agreement with Kolexo that every technique that the developers knowingly have in Brawl should be documented in some official capacity. If not in the instruction booklet or how-to-play videos, then on the official website at least.

And I wouldn't worry too much about it, because I'm sure there will still be plenty of things the developers and play testers haven't thought of that the community can figure out on its own.

 

[jb254]

I'm in agreement with Kolexo that every technique that the developers knowingly have in Brawl should be documented in some official capacity. If not in the instruction booklet or how-to-play videos, then on the official website at least.

And I wouldn't worry too much about it, because I'm sure there will still be plenty of things the developers and play testers haven't thought of that the community can figure out on its own.

They should document it in the "Official Nintendo Power SSB. Brawl Strategy Guide!", I could be wrong, but isn't that how everyone figured out Samus and Fox's easter eggs (the homing grapple beam and Fox calling his friends) before it was posted all over the web? All they have to write is: "Air-Dodge close to the ground to do a quick slide! If you do it fast enough, you can slide all across the arena!"

I think putting it in the official guide would be fair, since those who truly want to master the game will no doubt buy it.

 

[Mars-]

Wavedashing was meant to be in the game, just not used the way that we use it. I beleive it was mentioned before, but it has a name, Special Landing or something like that, in debug menu.

EDIT: BTW the mods need to start giving out warnings to people that keep making these threads, nobody really cares about it anymore, it should be in the game, it would be more of a "glitch" if it wasn't.

 

[The Hypnotist]

Again, an I really have to make this clear...

I'm all for wavedashing but CLEARLY Luigi and the Ice Climbers are not suppose to match Fox's speed. Period. It doesn't make sense. I think everyone's WD should be fairly long, about the length of Young Link's WD. What do you guys think about that? And another question, what do you guys think about the super wavedash?

 

[180OP]

im sorry, but WD is just an outdated technique

those are OLD BS vids there are hundreds of falcos who are better now than he was back then

9 of those points are done better with dashing. ONE of those points is doing better with wavedashing

see just how more important dashing is?

yes, dashing is better than wavelanding. firstly, the lag for wavelanding and dashing is EXACTLY the same, except with dashing you have WAY more control over your direction if your technique is good enough

WD is an outdated technique? So why is it still being used in EVERY SINGLE pro circuit match? There is no technique that has replaced it. and you just vaguely responded to my post saying 'well 9 points are done better with dashing' see just how important dashing is?' Which 9? and how?

1) I wasn't making a statement on BS being the best falco or not. I wanted the guy to see the implementation of WD with Falco(Duh thats what the thread is about). And all the falco players today, let's say namely shizwiz and forward USE wavedashing in the methods I described.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=skaRVjFjyt4

2)??? Dashing and wavelanding are different from each other. I don't even know how/why you would compare them. But if you are saying you would rather land on a platform, the run off of it instead of just wavelanding off of it, theeeeeeeen I would say you are wrong to say that wavelanding is inferior. You can waveland off a platform and go straight into any aerial attack whereas landing, then running off of it leaves you hella vulnerable..

3)I think you either tried and failed to perfect the WD or you just don't understand how to use it, so you go into denial that it is ever useful.

Is it a surprise to you that the top players use the WD in the methods I have described?

 

[180OP]

Again, an I really have to make this clear...

I'm all for wavedashing but CLEARLY Luigi and the Ice Climbers are not suppose to match Fox's speed. Period. It doesn't make sense. I think everyone's WD should be fairly long, about the length of Young Link's WD. What do you guys think about that? And another question, what do you guys think about the super wavedash?

I think distance based on traction is a better idea. Each character having his/her exclusive properties of the wavedash. If everyone had the same traction, then Fox will waveshine EVERYBODY to no end perhaps.

Superwavedash is very hard to pull off really and is impractical in a real match. The best samuses in the world do not use it. I think I have only seen it once by them.

 

[BrTarolg]

bleh guys wavedash was "intentional" in the fact that they didnt want characters to fall through the stage >_>

yes wavedashing IS easier. but i mean, the best players nowadays use pivoting for all sorts of things - ledgehogging, certain kinds of <cough> chaingrabs, a better and faster form of spacing., ability to crouch for both dash AND standing moves

superwavedash is clearly a bug lol - its the fact that when she changes direction in ball its that she has a HUGE movement speed - and if you land whilst changing direction the game wont think that youve ended the animation so it will keep you moving for that split second whilst at the same time reverting back to your origional so you move stupidly fast. use an AR to show the states and it shows that for some reaosn the move speed

special landing is used for all sorts of things - up+b on alot of characters which go into the stage for example <try landing shieks up+b onto the stage when she dips> - its just a way of saying "this is a mode where youve landed but have lag"

as for the length of wavedash, im sure thats something the programmers didnt input <wavedash was "there" its just to stop you from going all spak and crashing the game when you try and move through the hitbox of the ground whilst being invulnerable> - yes its directly linked to traction <for obvious reasons, luigi has very little traction, and so does iceclimbers>
i mean, i doubt they even conceived it as a form of movement in the first place, let alone "balance it" by changing tractions

so what, it turned out the way it is, and it turned out ok, and it made ALOT of things a ****sight easier to do.

wavedash is much rarer used nowadays than it was in the previous days because pros have become better at dash cancelling and pivoting.
see how often WD is used for those purposes in ANY shizwiz or w/e players repertoire OTHER than for waveshining, compared to dashing. give me ANY video and i can show you how much more often dashing is used, and how little it would hurt the most frequently used characters for it to go

seriously, even in that video which you showed me, where you EXCLUSIVELY picked it because it has alot of wavedashing - the majority of the wavedashing is waveshining - the rest of mixed together in with dashdancing purely as a form of mindgame

all the tactical stuff <like chaingrabs, and the long combos which ARNT coming straight out of shine> was done with dashes

perhaps its a bit of style. shiz likes using wavedash lots

watch the fox player - there is very little wavedashing, most of it is empty shfls and dash dancing

 

[SWORDMASTER66]

Even if Brawl doesn't have wavedashing, I will still play it, I will just have to adapt. But if it is out, I will be very disappointed because i'm a Fox player and wavedashing is a very important part in my game. But as I said before, I will just adapt if wavedashing is out and tweak my playstyle for Brawl.

 

[180OP]

Obviously dashing would be more in abundance because it is the MOST basic/fundamental form of movement.

I think you are under the impression that I am saying "WD replaced the dash".NOBODY moves 100% by wavedashing. It is a situational technique. For the 9 or 10 points I mention, WD is used over dashing or where you can't normally dash in the first place. WD probably accounts for less than 5% of movements in a game. But it is crucial to understand, where it is being used and why it matters there.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rDTdA_E6lHg

 

[Aquarius]

It's the express purpose of this thread to discuss whether we'll have wavedashing in Brawl and the implications thereof. Unfortunately, this issue is unable to be completely separated from people's personal preferences on the subject since the affect on the community reaction to brawl will be a major implication of the decision. Subsequently, it's a topic that is bound to generate a little heat. Some of us do our best to mitigate that by being as polite and cordial as we can be while still getting our point across, but there's only so much that can be done about it.

If it's a discussion you're not interested in having then you certainly don't have to. We're still talking about it, however, because we're still interested in hearing other people's views and/or reasonings and in expressing our own.



I believe he was attempting to emote that he was getting off his metaphorical soapbox.

You hit it right on the head. I didn't mean to say that this thread was crazy but the whole topic about wavedashing in general has always been a very sore topic to some. And yeah reading my post again might sound a little over dramatic, but that's what happens when a person can't hear you voice and see your emotions or expressions. But I guess thats what these are for

 

[THK]

I'm tellin ya, more and possibly better techniques are gonna show up.

 

[Mr.GAW]

I can see one new technique having to do with crawling, maybe another from new gameplay mechanics. But really, I don't see many new techniques appearing in Brawl.

 

[Takalth]

I think distance based on traction is a better idea. Each character having his/her exclusive properties of the wavedash. If everyone had the same traction, then Fox will waveshine EVERYBODY to no end perhaps.

Superwavedash is very hard to pull off really and is impractical in a real match. The best samuses in the world do not use it. I think I have only seen it once by them.

First Paragraph: Agreed. Different wavedash lengths put more individual style into characters. If we can have different running speeds, jump heights, and even differnt numbers of jumps, we can certainly have different wavedash distances.

Second paragraph: Debatable. Wes has pulled a couple valuable moves with Superwavedash, and Phanna uses it multiple times every stock. I'm not sure how phanna compares to the top Samus players, but somebody who can actually pull it off as often as he does can make it highly useful in a match. For most of us, though, it's just a novelty.

 

[180OP]

First Paragraph: Agreed. Different wavedash lengths put more individual style into characters. If we can have different running speeds, jump heights, and even differnt numbers of jumps, we can certainly have different wavedash distances.

Second paragraph: Debatable. Wes has pulled a couple valuable moves with Superwavedash, and Phanna uses it multiple times every stock. I'm not sure how phanna compares to the top Samus players, but somebody who can actually pull it off as often as he does can make it highly useful in a match. For most of us, though, it's just a novelty.

It is still unorthodox in the tournament arena. But I agree if someone is consistant with it, then how could it not be useful?

But it is predictable, very predictable. But for grabbing the ledge at one end of the stage if you smash someone there........that my friend....would be its greatest use. as superwavedash smash attacks easily defendable. Hey can you link me to some phanna vids where he is doing it, because I look to see it in noncombo vid action. if you have the links handy. thanks.

 

[Takalth]

I don't have links, but I put phanna in on youtube and found a few videos where he does. It's been a while, so I hope they're still there.

 

[The Hypnotist]

About the WD having to do with traction...

I guess it's fine, just don't make Luigi faster than Fox, it's stupid, and clearly was not suppose to happen.