Advanced Techniques in Brawl

[Aryman]

Well, I'm not gonna say names, but who's flaming Dylan needs to go grow some balls.
Where you waiting for him to get banned to say all that crap? If yes, you disappoint me.
If no, and you were about to say it when he was here, then it is ok with me. He'll have to deal with that later when he comes back.

I seriously don't even know who this Dylan kid is, or that he was banned. Demon Machine was being pathetic, that's all.

Back on topic:
Well, Klowne said it best. You shouldn't rely on one tech to define your whole game.

 

[Demon_machinE]

No one's flaming Dylan.

Dylan getting banned was only a matter of time coming... being how he has been arguing with ppl and making the dumbest posts i have ever seen... getting all bent outta shape cuz ppl don't see his beliefs the way that he sees em and again ppl percieve those beliefs as being really childish

Clearly they are.

Anyhow thanks for implying that Dylan is my girlfriend my girl got a good laugh out of that.

Anyhow, I couldn't care less what you think of me I don't even post on these forums often I just read them.

Dylan will be back, he'll deal with all this later Im tired of arguing for him to tell the truth.

So with that (yeah I know ive said it 3 times already)

I -swear- I am completly finished posting in this section. bye.

 

[Sandy]

ANYONE who takes video games that seriously, needs to be hit in the face

 

[Adi]

Demon, you incited this yourself. I'm too tired to explain it to you, go to almost all my earlier posts and they have my arguement there.

 

[Y34HDUD3!!!]

1st: If no one was flaming Dylan, then I apologize. As I said in my second post it will be Dylan's job to decide that. Demon MachinE requested help and I came here, that's all.

2nd: If it wasn't with Dylan, I would have still done it, just for the simple reason that is pathetic to wait till someone gets banned/ can't talk back to you to flame him/her.

 

[The Bino]

Demon Machine - Again you're gonna post something after the fact that it doesn't matter

What i said bout Dylan getting banned was something that i said after the fact that you said that he was banned, i didn't know nor do i care that he was banned, but what i said was the truth, i didn't have any arguements with Dylan, nor did i have a flaming war with him... and stop talking bout Dylan... or maybe if you wanna keep talking bout em make a d@mn thread bout it, im getting sick and tired of seein his name pop up in YOUR posts, if he wants to be the one saying all of thins, since he's sitting right next to you, then let him be the one to say at the top - Dylan Speaking - instead of speaking through you....

If Dylan wants to come back and start flaming or arguing then he can again be prepared to be banned... since he's gonna rememeber the rules and all of em.... that would be one of the rules... so like i said and i say it again, i know some and a good majority of the rules, and if he flames or argues, he will be banned again...

This is not a flame war nor do i have anything personally against Dylan, but if i come into a thread and see flaming going on, who's name do i see mentioned or see a post by someone arguing with Dylan..... it would be Dylan which is the name that pops up

Friendly warning from your Friendly Neighberhood Bino

Edit:

1st: If no one was flaming Dylan, then I apologize. As I said in my second post it will be Dylan's job to decide that. Demon MachinE requested help and I came here, that's all.
2nd: If it wasn't with Dylan, I would have still done it, just for the simple reason that is pathetic to wait till someone gets banned/ can't talk back to you to flame him/her.

That's funny Demon requested help because his points were invalid to the arguement so he needed "soldiers" to help him out as you can see, someone came to help the invalid points be argued

 

[BrTarolg]

tbh i think melee could have done fine without the wavedash - most characters have a perfectly fine dash.

i doubt the tier list would change that much, it would just be taking something out of the game.

certainly it would make it alot easier for certain players who arnt adept at using airdodge sliding to the max <especially when you see better players really use it as an extreme form of crazy movement on platform stages>

the thing is, whenever you cna wavedash, you can either jump or dash.
given that from a shield, you can wavedash, you can still just.. jump and use aerial attacks. in a sense i think its better since youre not really meant to be able to use huge ranged attacks straight out of the shield <imagine marth or fox being able to do something like links up+b out of shield>

TOP level samus players would probably lose out the most.

but its not going to be the end of the world if it doesnt appear in brawl - no doubt the idea of spacing and moving around will be taken more seriously after the huge competetive community in smash

edit: oh wtf that dylan guy i remember him >_>

frnakly judging from his videos most of the players here are MUCH better than him so w/e

 

[NC-Echo]

Demon machinE all I have to say, is you do what you like but arguing that Brawl will not be competitive without wavedashing is ignorant. Yes the physics in ssb is different but can you really say that if the physics were the same (and they really are not drastically different) would it then not have been competitive considering it didn't have wavedashing? As I have said you may do as you so choose but there is no argument you can make that would show that your unwillingness for change is anything but childish.

“We change, whether we like it or not”
Ralph Waldo Emerson

 

[NineDragons450]

I dont think it would matter much if wavedashing was to be put in Brawl because Im not the best smasher and am no where near being the best. I probably cant keep up with the best and so wavedashing doesnt seem to matter to me.

 

[Y34HDUD3!!!]

It wouldn't matter to YOU, or all the community?
Because I find the wavedash important in my fighting style.

 

[Darkfur]

What about meteor smashes and the like? What if those get switched around and such. What if WD is in, but all the Fair, Dair, Nair, Bairs and such have been nerfed to a degree that will drastically alter your fighting style? Perhaps you should just develop a new one for Brawl and have a Melee style, and a Brawl Style. I don't see a reason why people can't just play both games for what they are. Games...

 

[Rash]

Wavedashing is going to be in Brawl.

The engine being used for the game is not much different than Melee's, if it isn't exactly the same. Sakurai's team, Sora, is full of guys who know Smash Bros. very well, so well that they're probably pretty good and know all of the advanced techniques and can pull them all off with relative ease. They also, as developers, can't just start building a game without doing research; considering that Smash Bros. is a huge Nintendo franchise (with Melee being the best-selling GC game), they would obviously have knowledge of the vast popularity of the game and would have at least some kind of insight into communities like this one.

The guys making the game should very much be aware of the wavedash and should very much be aware of its effect on the Smash communities all over the net and in other places. I think it's silly for them to just ignore the fact that the wavedash is a technique embraced by the better Smash Melee players, and therefore I find it hard to believe that they will be so ignorant of it as to not include it in Brawl.

At this point it just seems nonsensical to not keep the move in. Now, whether or not it'll be easier or harder to do is another question entirely.

 

[The Bino]

It wouldn't matter to YOU, or all the community?
Because I find the wavedash important in my fighting style.

I can answer that for you, but i really shouldn't have had to if you had completely read what he said here (notice the colored areas)

I dont think it would matter much if wavedashing was to be put in Brawl because Im not the best smasher and am no where near being the best. I probably cant keep up with the best and so wavedashing doesnt seem to matter to me.

 

[Y34HDUD3!!!]

LOL it was a joke!
Some peole might think I'm dumb but I don't really have those issues with reading.

 

[BrTarolg]

Wavedashing is going to be in Brawl.

The engine being used for the game is not much different than Melee's, if it isn't exactly the same. Sakurai's team, Sora, is full of guys who know Smash Bros. very well, so well that they're probably pretty good and know all of the advanced techniques and can pull them all off with relative ease. They also, as developers, can't just start building a game without doing research; considering that Smash Bros. is a huge Nintendo franchise (with Melee being the best-selling GC game), they would obviously have knowledge of the vast popularity of the game and would have at least some kind of insight into communities like this one.

The guys making the game should very much be aware of the wavedash and should very much be aware of its effect on the Smash communities all over the net and in other places. I think it's silly for them to just ignore the fact that the wavedash is a technique embraced by the better Smash Melee players, and therefore I find it hard to believe that they will be so ignorant of it as to not include it in Brawl.

At this point it just seems nonsensical to not keep the move in. Now, whether or not it'll be easier or harder to do is another question entirely.

lol its quite a leap of faith to suggest that the developers are very good at the game

 

[The Bino]

lol its quite a leap of faith to suggest that the developers are very good at the game

Well i can back up what he was saying, when the old Dojo was up Sakurai even stated that the New Smash Team has played a multitude of HOURS UPON HOURS of smash and know a great deal of Melee and are a great asset to him for creating Brawl

Also if you look at the trailers you can clearly see Wave Landing in the trailers.... not Wave Dashing but Wave Landing, i hope u guys know the difference so i don't have to explain

 

[BrTarolg]

Well i can back up what he was saying, when the old Dojo was up Sakurai even stated that the New Smash Team has played a multitude of HOURS UPON HOURS of smash and know a great deal of Melee and are a great asset to him for creating Brawl

Also if you look at the trailers you can clearly see Wave Landing in the trailers.... not Wave Dashing but Wave Landing, i hope u guys know the difference so i don't have to explain

link please? ive never really seen melee trailers

unless you mean the brawl trailers - and tbh we have no idea whether thats wavelanding or not yet, it just looks like it

 

[The Bino]

link please? ive never really seen melee trailers

unless you mean the brawl trailers - and tbh we have no idea whether thats wavelanding or not yet, it just looks like it

I meant Brawl Trailers lol and yes we may not know 100% if that's wavelanding or anything, but it's way too close to not be wavelanding, it may be the characters certain traction that they have had in Melee being redone in Brawl, but like i said too many chars in the Trailers have done what seems to be wavelanding... to name a few off the top of head

MetaKnight
Wario
Mario

I'm sure some others have done it as well... but like i just said off the top of my head

 

[Rash]

Well, I'm not saying the guys at Sora are necessarily good at the game, but if anything they're definitely experienced enough to know the ins and outs of Melee. That's how I see it, anyway.

 

[Diddy Kong]

They deffinatly know about SHFFLing atleast, otherwise they wouldn't keep it in Melee. Wavedashing, sure they know about it. They live in Japan, and I'm sure atleast a few of the guys working at the game are pretty familiair to the other advanced techniques since I really doubt that there are much casual Smashers in Japan above the age of 14. But I dunno if they'll keep it, instead I think they're more trying to buff up the common techniques like rolling and air dodging so that we don't need Wavedashing.

 

[PIMPSLAP]

nope it's all about the wave dash and i think sakura has noticed it as a technicall skill and won't take it out it's not broken so why drop it?

 

[Meta_Owns_Ur_Dad]

Wow, the people who want it in, are the people who can't do it. And the people who do want it in use it.

CAN I HAVE EVERYONE'S ATTENTION PLEASE! IF YOU WANT WAVEDASHING, GO ON THAT SIDE, IF YA DON'T, GO ON THE OTHER SIDE! *Everyone scurries*

Alright, let me count who has more people, 1.. 2.. 4.. 12... 8... More don't want it in!

"****," says a random guy on the wavedash side, "If you guys don't come to our side, we'll PWN you in Smash!"

"OH SHEEEEEEEEIIIIIITTT!" go some random nub in the anti-wavedash side, and a group of people go to the other side.

"Heh, must have been the nubs..." goes a guy on the no wavedash side.

"Wavedash has more! Wavedash for brawl!"

With that conclusion... Wavedash will probably be in brawl, because the mass majority want it in (i did the above part just because i was bored...)

 

[180OP]

someone is boycotting brawl if wavedash is not in? lolz, that's hilarious. it's time to move on, a new game after 7 or so years. new things will be found. plus it's not like you're an asset to the smash community. New stars will rise. Kids who are just celebrating their 11th bday just picking up Wii are prolly going to run the brawl scene in like 4 years.

boycott it if you want, the world just doesn't care enough. It is not going to hurt Nintendo in anyway. Brawl sucking altogether is a different story. No wavedashing doesn't define the success of brawl.

we just have to wait and see.

 

[Tank McCannon]

I personally hope it stays in, but I'm not going to refuse to buy the game if it's not. It's possible to master any game, Brawl will be no different. Even if wavedashing doesn't make it in, it will still be possible to perfect everything else, and who knows, maybe master something new to the game. Besides, I didn't get into smash because I knew it was something I could master by wavedashing and shffling. I got into it because it was insanely fun, and I know Brawl will be insanely fun as well.

Even though I stand by what I say, I still don't see a good reason to take it out in the first place. To me it's just a different way to create some distance other than rolling or walking, only it's more helpful when it comes to mind games. Anyone who feels like trying to learn it can do it.

There are people who don't like wavedashing because people who can do it beat them all the time. Well, like I said earlier, you can do it too if you take the time, and I hate to tell you, but those people can probably still beat you without wavedashing.

There are other people who hate it because "it wasn't meant to be in the game". Well, I guess I really don't have much of an argument for that. I feel bad that you demand technical perfection in all of your video games. It's a shame because you probably must hate other glitchy games like Super Mario 64, Grand Theft Auto III and The Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time.

 

[180OP]

but those people can probably still beat you without wavedashing.

One word. Aniki. It's his insane mindgames that get people all the time.

 

[Tank McCannon]

One word. Aniki. It's his insane mindgames that get people all the time.

What I'm saying is that while pros use wavedashing a lot, I'm sure they could still mindgame average players easily without it.

 

[hue_jass]

I'm more concerned that the game is balanced on the upper level then specifics of tech. I assume a lot of tech will change just for the fact that movesets are changing.

I also hope a little time is spent reviewing the basic game mechanics that dictate balance, what i'm trying to say is review things like disjointed hitboxes and speed/weight that have a noticable impact on performance. or that the game has balancing reviews like any leading tournament game but I somehow think that's a long shot. basically i just pray the difference between top and low tier characters is not quite as noticable, I wish I could confidently pull out G&W in a tournament and know I have a chance of advancing.

I'm taking a wait and see approach, the game could be amazing and balanced without wave dashing, it could be the same with wave dashing, I'm sure there's plenty of other new tech that hasn't even been though of yet, and I won't know until I pick up the control myself

 

[Demon_machinE]

boycott it if you want, the world just doesn't care enough. It is not going to hurt Nintendo in anyway. Brawl sucking altogether is a different story. No wavedashing doesn't define the success of brawl.

I agree with you. my crew wont play a WDless brawl out of personal choice, not to spite anyone. Most likely all of us will still watch videos and follow the pro scene.

and by ''play'' I do mean as in compete.

If someone I know gets a wii and a copy of brawl for sure Ill want to try it out..

But I dont own a wii, and I dont feel like buying one unless I can can compete in Brawl, which I can't if there is no wavedash, garunteed.

Please, im begging you, these are my personal feelings shared by my crew. I hope you all enjoy brawl no matter what it is like. I cant handle another argument, its an online forum, Im entitled to my own opinions and feelings especially if im not trying to force them on you.

 

[Tank McCannon]

Please, im begging you, these are my personal feelings shared by my crew. I hope you all enjoy brawl no matter what it is like. I cant handle another argument, its an online forum, Im entitled to my own opinions and feelings especially if im not trying to force them on you.

I don't want to say you're feelings are wrong, I just don't you or anyone else to miss out on what's going to be a really fun game.

 

[180OP]

But I dont own a wii, and I dont feel like buying one unless I can can compete in Brawl, which I can't if there is no wavedash, garunteed.

But how do you know you can't play at a competitive level if there is no wavedash? because no one else has wavedash. Plus Brawl ain't the only game for Wii but I'm not trying to convince you of buying a Wii. MetroidP3 and Galaxy are games to look out for. What if you can play at a competitive level and there is no wavedash? say you make top 3 players of the world. Changes everything doesn't it?

But anyways, it seems by your as if you don't share the feelings of your crew and most likely will end up playing brawl. Especially when you want to watch vids and follow the pro scene. That's pretty soft for a boycott.

 

[Eaode]

You can file me under "Really wants WD to return but will love the game regardless".

I mean, even if it doesn't return, we might not miss is that much. Seriously, have you seen Meta Knight's/Pit's rolls in the trailers?

 

[Demon_machinE]

But how do you know you can't play at a competitive level if there is no wavedash? because no one else has wavedash. Plus Brawl ain't the only game for Wii but I'm not trying to convince you of buying a Wii. MetroidP3 and Galaxy are games to look out for. What if you can play at a competitive level and there is no wavedash? say you make top 3 players of the world. Changes everything doesn't it?

Nah, there's no chance. Myself and Dylan came to this conclusion when we were smashing and we decided ''hey, lets try playing like scrubs'' and made up some rules that were HONORABLE haha

No wavedashing
No L cancelling
No fast falling
No edgehogging
No edgeguarding

etc, etc we came up with the most extreme set of scrub rules possible. It worked for 2 mins but then I just started shffling knees everywhere and dylan started pulsewalk neutral a jabbing to grab and needlegrabbing me with shiek and suddenly just out of habit we were playing like we always do.

Without the wavedash, I literally would have to re-learn how to play melee or brawl. I dont wavedash everywhere like some newbie who just learned how to use it, I use it situationally and so does Dylan.. I HATE wavedash spammers that think they're pro.

Anyhow yeah I use it mostly for spacing and slight mindgames and its just such a habit I dont know if I can break it. I even try to WD and SHFFL when I play metroid prime or soul calibur 2 or any other GC game.

Its the GC controller, like it just.. is smash to me. I hold it and I want to shffl uairs, and waveshine, etc etc.

So if it's such an innate habit that has been built up over years of melee smashfests.. how could we break it and become competitive in a brawl without wavedashing? Impossible.

But anyways, it seems by your as if you don't share the feelings of your crew and most likely will end up playing brawl. Especially when you want to watch vids and follow the pro scene. That's pretty soft for a boycott.

Boycott was the wrong word I appologise.

I meerly meant that my crew would not play brawl without the wavedash. Not that we would call it a sucky game or like diss people for playing hell no

we'd still know all the top players, watch all the pro matches on youtube. My whole crew is a bunch of smash adicts, though none so much as Dylan I don't think.. haha

I think he's literally seen almost every pro smash match ON youtube .

 

[whiterob]

I think Eaode just made the most intelligent point on this thread. Demon machinE, even without WD, you could just main meta knight or pit,and roll with them to get the spacing that you desire. That way, you could play brawl competitvely which would make you happy, it would stop your idea of boycotting which would make everyone who says thats stupid or childish happy, and would make everyone here who is tired of reading everone else name call and argue happy. We all win thanks to pit and metaknights roll.

 

[petre]

one big thing though (well more than one), is that a roll always ends you facing the way opposite that you rolled, and that the roll is a set distance, with ending lag where you cant move, and can only be performed on the ground. thats why people prefer wavedashing. you pick which way you want to face. you pick the distance you want to go. you pick when you want to move again. you can do it from the ground or air. wavedashing excels in all things, except simplicity. if you want to play a simple game, go ahead, roll all you want. but for a more complex, in-depth experience, youre going to need complex in-depth techniques.

just leave it all in and let the player decide how they want to play. nobodys stopping you from NOT wavedashing in melee, even though its there.

 

[Demon_machinE]

even without WD, you could just main meta knight or pit,and roll with them to get the spacing that you desire. .

Oh wow. hahahahahaahahaha, you're serious?

Roll = set distance = lag = no attack immediatly out of it = wavedash is better = rolling sucks = Knee >>> Roll.

wow. Faster rolling replacing wavedashing.. how many times have I seen that and it still makes me laugh hahah.

You guys crack me up sometimes...

No disrepect intended, but seriously come on, use your head.

 

[180OP]

Nah, there's no chance. Myself and Dylan came to this conclusion when we were smashing and we decided ''hey, lets try playing like scrubs'' and made up some rules that were HONORABLE haha

No wavedashing
No L cancelling
No fast falling
No edgehogging
No edgeguarding

etc, etc we came up with the most extreme set of scrub rules possible. It worked for 2 mins but then I just started shffling knees everywhere and dylan started pulsewalk neutral a jabbing to grab and needlegrabbing me with shiek and suddenly just out of habit we were playing like we always do.

Without the wavedash, I literally would have to re-learn how to play melee or brawl. I dont wavedash everywhere like some newbie who just learned how to use it, I use it situationally and so does Dylan.. I HATE wavedash spammers that think they're pro.

Anyhow yeah I use it mostly for spacing and slight mindgames and its just such a habit I dont know if I can break it. I even try to WD and SHFFL when I play metroid prime or soul calibur 2 or any other GC game.

Its the GC controller, like it just.. is smash to me. I hold it and I want to shffl uairs, and waveshine, etc etc.

So if it's such an innate habit that has been built up over years of melee smashfests.. how could we break it and become competitive in a brawl without wavedashing? Impossible.



Boycott was the wrong word I appologise.

I meerly meant that my crew would not play brawl without the wavedash. Not that we would call it a sucky game or like diss people for playing hell no

we'd still know all the top players, watch all the pro matches on youtube. My whole crew is a bunch of smash adicts, though none so much as Dylan I don't think.. haha

I think he's literally seen almost every pro smash match ON youtube .

Hey I know what you mean. Whenever I play Viewtiful Joe, I'm trying to L CANCEL and other smash stuff. Takes a while to re-adjusts.

But if I read correctly you said that your 12 year old sister is also not gonna play because of the WD issue. I think that she is purely influenced by your crew and I think that is just sad that a person at such an age would say that. They have no idea about competitiveness they just wanna play and have fun with their friends.

I remember when I was 12 I bought SSB64 and my bro who I looked up to told me the game stinks and not to open the package. I was so torn apart between his words and how I played the game at my friends house and opened it neways. Moral is ...kids that young dont boycott stuff for WDs or the lack of. It actually hurts me to see that, I am a strong children's advocate. it is just a game, dont need to sell your life away. why cant we just play and accept that we may not come close to being teh best...but just play for fun. 12 year olds should never make decisions like that. it's just not right. She's most likely to play it anyway like 2 years later when they learn to think for themselves.

 

[Demon_machinE]

Trust me, my sister is entirely different than any kid you've ever met. She says she wants to try Brawl at the least but she wont play without wavedashing.

She doesn't just play ssbm man. She wants to be the best peach player in the world, and she started young. SSBM is one of her passions.

Shes also an amazing artist, a very talented writer, and basically one of the guys when it comes to smashfests and whatnot. She is very, very smart for her age and likewise has earned the respect of me, Dylan, and George (our samus player in the crew) as an equal, not as a 12 year old girl, but treated like a fellow 19 year old.

Youd have to meet her to understand, she's a riot.

I haven't yet brought her to a bi-weekly or a tournament because she was too young, but this summer I am definatly going to take her to a few smashfests, shes been bugging me and our parents for the past 2-3 months hehe

The WD thing? Its her personal choice, she very rarely agrees with me just purely because I told her to, shes very open minded and calls me an idiot quite often, actually

They have no idea about competitiveness they just wanna play and have fun with their friends.

That made her laugh, and call you a name I might get banned for posting for patronizing her based on her age.

 

[PIMPSLAP]

i mean i have seriously placed top at newb tourny. With just wd games i mean it also for the most part seperates casual players, (for the most part) from serious players, like me and my friends(not a crew yet)

 

[whiterob]

Demon machinE the only reason i suggested that you could learn to roll is so that you might find some way to accept not being able to WD and so that you could stop causing everyone to argue. Obviously WDing is superior to rolling or otherwise everyone would just roll and WDing wouldn't be a consideration. That being said, i don't want to get into an arugment with you either, because, well everyones heard the joke about arguing on the internet and the special olympics, so all i can hope for is that WD is confirmed in the smash update tommorow so that this topic can be a non issue.

 

[Demon_machinE]

Demon machinE the only reason i suggested that you could learn to roll is so that you might find some way to accept not being able to WD and so that you could stop causing everyone to argue. Obviously WDing is superior to rolling or otherwise everyone would just roll and WDing wouldn't be a consideration. That being said, i don't want to get into an arugment with you either, because, well everyones heard the joke about arguing on the internet and the special olympics, so all i can hope for is that WD is confirmed in the smash update tommorow so that this topic can be a non issue.

Whoops. Sorry for making fun of you, you didn't deserve it!