Advanced Players... Sucks For Us

[TheSpindoctor]

I dont think so, and you really never really stated why you think this.

They are putting in tons of awesome items and assist trophies and stages, but if you choose to play with absolutely no items and ban more than half the stages, thats your fault. You have no idea how deep the game is, I am sure the game is going to be great.

Besides, sakurai himself said that the game had an "unprecedented amount of depth"

 

[Doggalina]

We'll still have at least SHFF (probably the LC, too). That's a huge tech. Mindgames will be there too; in anything competitive (sports or videogames), mindgames and knowledge of the game are what separate the scrubs from the pros. Hopefully I'll fall somewhere in the middle.

 

[red stone]

I dont think so, and you really never really stated why you think this.

They are putting in tons of awesome items and assist trophies and stages, but if you choose to play with absolutely no items and ban more than half the stages, thats your fault. You have no idea how deep the game is, I am sure the game is going to be great.

Besides, sakurai himself said that the game had an "unprecedented amount of depth"

more items does not equal more depth in my eyes

 

[distr0ia]

well, before Melee came out we didn't know about wavedashing, shorthopping, dash dancing, L-canceling, SH lasering or shine-spiking...just to put things in perspective

you know, I really find all of this sh*t about the game not having the same techniques to be pretty ********. it's almost laugh-out-loud comical how big of a deal some of you are making about it. if you want Melee, play it :/ it's out

Brawl is a NEW game and you're just going to have to learn a few NEW tricks...or trip over your own feet until someone else learns them for you, which most of us have done, admit it

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

Its players that turned SSBM into what it now is, not the developers. Devs didn't leave Wavedashing in because they thought pros would make good use of it, its the player themselves that chose to do so. No matter how different brawl ends up, there will always be professional smashers because there's more that differentiate adv players and casuals than mere techniques. The removal of WDing doesn't imply that pros will suddenly lose their status.

Yes, I do understand what you are pointing at. My point is for the advanced players to stop whining about how they think wavedashing, l-canceling, wavedacning, etc will not be in Brawl and put some trust into Sakurai and his team. Sakurai could make the advanced techs actually techniques or possibly we will find new techniques in the games.

 

[TaurToph]

I don't know about you but i wanted to be in USA about february. It'll be so fun the first tourneys:
Ppl with few advanced techniques trying to do something, and just a few smart players that makes their own strategies winning it all.
And, few time ago, everyone copying their new strategies...

 

[GreenKirby]

It doesn't suck for Advanced Players.

It sucks for Dead Horse. He's the one who keeps being beaten on instead of just decomposing in peace. :O

 

[Thino]

there will be new glitches

 

[limitbreak]

Dude its going to be an awesome game. I agree that they might be pushing too far away from the real players BUT I also believe that nintendo wants to compromise everyone. In other words, its just going to be a better melee with more fun added.

 

[Brawl Melee 64]

Concerns like this are just stupid, I wouldnt worry about this kind of thing too much.
Im 99% sure that wavedashing wont be in Brawl, and I hope its not. But that doesnt automatically make it a less competitive game. Smash bro is made for both types, causual and tourny players and it works very well both ways. And so far, Brawl looks 5 times more in-depth than melee

 

[Gilgamesh]

So you basically wanted Melee 2.

 

[Izaw]

Pr0s should be able to handle playing withot Wavedashing

Just take a look at Aniki

 

[error_alt_delete]

people get too dependent on wave dashing and the such. Its skills without needing such techniques that make you a truely strong brawler/smasher.

 

[Livvers]

well, before Melee came out we didn't know about wavedashing, shorthopping, dash dancing, L-canceling, SH lasering or shine-spiking...just to put things in perspective

you know, I really find all of this sh*t about the game not having the same techniques to be pretty ********. it's almost laugh-out-loud comical how big of a deal some of you are making about it. if you want Melee, play it :/ it's out

Brawl is a NEW game and you're just going to have to learn a few NEW tricks...or trip over your own feet until someone else learns them for you, which most of us have done, admit it

QFT. How can people not realize that a ton of the techniques done today were found out after Melee came out?


Also, people lamenting about it being more accessible to casual players: Um, casual players make up most of the sales, so of course a lot of time is going to focus on making them happy. If it weren't for so many casual players loving this game, there might not have been Brawl(or it at least would have taken a lot more to convince Sakurai to make it).

 

[pud22]

QFT. How can people not realize that a ton of the techniques done today were found out after Melee came out?


Also, people lamenting about it being more accessible to casual players: Um, casual players make up most of the sales, so of course a lot of time is going to focus on making them happy. If it weren't for so many casual players loving this game, there might not have been Brawl(or it at least would have taken a lot more to convince Sakurai to make it).

...i agree wit this

u need to remember that the developers behind the game are all smash fans. sakurai even said that they had each logged in about 10000 matches (which is a s*** load). so im guessing they understand what mechanics and techs new smashers and old are looking to utilize. they are prob pretty competitive themselves (sakurai also said the play SSBM during their breaks) and im sure they kno about the advanced techs (i.e. wavedash, dash-dancing, short-hop) so we really shouldnt worry that much. the game is good hands. and who knows maybe the new techs and gameplay system there introducing could open up new possibilities in teching

 

[marthmaster04]

I completely sympathize ksic, this isn't hal working on it after all. It's "everything has to be fair for everyone" Nintendo.

 

[Hydde]

Yeah i know everything about how we need to go on and leave WD in the past.... but damm alot of my fav moves with Marth have gone down the drain!.

Its frustrating

 

[Askeflink]

Why are you talking like Brawl isn't hardcore? BS!
Meant to the first-page, I know many agree with me. Sakurai is skilled, his crew are skilled. Theres no way we get a floppy game!

 

[pud22]

Concerns like this are just stupid, I wouldnt worry about this kind of thing too much.
Im 99% sure that wavedashing wont be in Brawl, and I hope its not. But that doesnt automatically make it a less competitive game. Smash bro is made for both types, causual and tourny players and it works very well both ways. And so far, Brawl looks 5 times more in-depth than melee

theres already vids of ppl wavedashing (watch the samus vs Mario sequence near the beginning at about 2:14 sec)...it also looks like he l cancld (at 1:17 secs). all hope isnt lost...

 

[pud22]

the vid is at http://youtube.com/watch?v=CH2NkT-1Qy0

 

[NES n00b]

So you basically wanted Melee 2.

So you basically didn't want a sequel and wanted new IP.

Sorry, couldn't resist. XD I just see this way too much. They could have kept things and added on like Melee to 64 instead of replacing and taking away.

Oh well, it doesn't matter until I play the game myself to see what it is all about.

 

[thesage]

I'm actually more worried about not being able to control you're airdodge, djc'ing (cuz Sakurai said Yoshi doesn't do it anymore), and shffling instead of WD'ing. 1.5 of those have already have been deconfirmed...

 

[Dogenzaka]

*Note*- Hey guys is Karem! I'm the one who had the Melee Tournament at his house a year ago in Port Richey, Florida. One of the best, missed you guys! ( Had to make a new account, forgot my user name lol )

I really need some reinsurance. Is there any hope for us advance players? I wanted a game that was deeper then Melee. Not a game with millions of new weapons/maps/characters. Ugh, just feels like the game is just not going to be as deep. I thought they would be putting new stuff in, not taking stuff out.... but wait.... not i can jump on someones head..... ya thats going to make this game so advanced . Thats a cool thing in all but only for a fun match with friends " Haha I just stepped on your head.... hahahaha!! ". It just seems the game is made for people who like to put it on 4 players and fight. Not people who go to tournaments to see who is the best, like myself( I love going to tournaments ). It feels there just babying the game a little but i trust the staff so im just hoping they dont screw over the hardcore gamers( which so far, thats how it seems ).

Take Care Guys And It's Good To Be Back
-KSic.

I'm personally happy cheapass players aren't going to take advantage of some of the cheap glitches in Melee to try to get them to win fights. Hopefully Brawl has wavedashing and the sort, out.

 

[Xanderous]

I'm personally happy cheapass players aren't going to take advantage of some of the cheap glitches in Melee to try to get them to win fights. Hopefully Brawl has wavedashing and the sort, out.

I'm so tired of this. So, so tired.

 

[fr0st2k]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

 

[Goldkirby]

This thread is stupid.

So what if they take some stuff out? There will be new glitches that are found to abuse. It happens in every video game, not just fighting games, but with every game, there are glitches, some that will be legal and some that won't. I have no doubt in my mind that the creative people will find new ways to play this incarnation of smash. You people making these ****ty threads need to stop panicing and just play the game for a couple of years before you decide it is garbage. Advanced players will always find new ways to push games to the limit.

Seriously, this is a new and completely different game, just like Street Fighter II is different from Street Fighter III in many ways. For example, fireballs used to matter in SF2, in SF3 parrying FB's is easy as **** so they are not as effective in the pressure game.

 

[DonkeyPirate]

yeah, its gonna be a different game but it will still be great.

 

[Dogenzaka]

I'm so tired of this. So, so tired.

No one cares. It's my opinion. I have the right to declare it if I so desire.

 

[Mama]

I'm personally happy cheapass players aren't going to take advantage of some of the cheap glitches in Melee to try to get them to win fights. Hopefully Brawl has wavedashing and the sort, out.

This isn't Melee 2.0 buddy boy. Brawl is going to have its own innovations that chumps like you will call glitches because its a new game. Melee had its own set of styles and you failed to pursue them. Brawl will have its own and like Melee before it you will fail to pursue that as well. You should stop blaming other people for trying to get better and blame yourself for not trying to learn the ways of the pro Smasher. Its not impossible and you're the only one holding yourself back. By the way the only thing that can even be considered a glitch in some views is wave dashing. Everything else is built in so get better.

 

[Rodriguezjr]

I never got Melee to do that, I got it because I enjoy seeing Nintendo characters fight each other.

 

[Gilgamesh]

So you basically didn't want a sequel and wanted new IP.

Sorry, couldn't resist. XD I just see this way too much. They could have kept things and added on like Melee to 64 instead of replacing and taking away.

Oh well, it doesn't matter until I play the game myself to see what it is all about.

Um... Melee actually replaced a lot of things, moves and mechanics from Smash 64.

 

[Dogenzaka]

Brawl is going to have its own innovations that chumps like you will call glitches because its a new game.

Hopefully it doesn't.

Melee had its own set of styles and you failed to pursue them. Brawl will have its own and like Melee before it you will fail to pursue that as well.

Right, because you're psychic now, and know what I will/won't do and automatically assume that I don't know how to wavedash or L-cancel 8/

 

[Awesomely Awesome AJ]

Anybody who sticks their nose up at this game simply because Wave Dashing is gone deserves to punched in the balls

 

[Akinari]

I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but if it has, I apologize.

Before Melee was released, no one knew of the existence of advanced techniques such as Wavedashing, Dashdancing, etc, that's for sure. In fact, if you check out one of the early user reviews in Gamefaqs, one person criticized Melee for being too "shallow" and only enjoyable when you have three other friends with you.

Fastforward to now where Melee has "depth."

What I'm trying to say is that Brawl WILL eventually have depth. People just have to rediscover that depth. It's actually exciting to think of what other kinds of advanced techniques that can be discovered in Brawl. Just think about it!

If this game retained those advanced techniques, they might as well be something official and be listed in the instructions manual or strategy guides, much alike how SF2 glitches were integrated into movesets.

So what if people are complaining about items? They'll eventually be turned off in tourneys. It's an inevitability. Complaining about stages? Then they'll get banned in tourneys, no question. Besides, a lot of Brawl stages appear to be platform based.

In the big picture anyway, if you look at how much members are in these boards and assume that all of these members are hardcore purists, then look at how much the number of people bought Melee, elitists that reside in this board only account for about 1% of the sales. And that means that Sakurai has to appease the majority, you know.

But to reiterate, Brawl is not Melee. They could have called SSBM-2.

Just my rambling two cents.

I've been lurking in this board for too long and I just want to say something.

 

[red stone]

no l-canceling??!!! wow, i guess you win casuals. oh well, i'll learn a way to be cheap still

 

[The_Smash_Champ]

I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but if it has, I apologize.

Before Melee was released, no one knew of the existence of advanced techniques such as Wavedashing, Dashdancing, etc, that's for sure. In fact, if you check out one of the early user reviews in Gamefaqs, one person criticized Melee for being too "shallow" and only enjoyable when you have three other friends with you.

Fastforward to now where Melee has "depth."

What I'm trying to say is that Brawl WILL eventually have depth. People just have to rediscover that depth. It's actually exciting to think of what other kinds of advanced techniques that can be discovered in Brawl. Just think about it!

If this game retained those advanced techniques, they might as well be something official and be listed in the instructions manual or strategy guides, much alike how SF2 glitches were integrated into movesets.

So what if people are complaining about items? They'll eventually be turned off in tourneys. It's an inevitability. Complaining about stages? Then they'll get banned in tourneys, no question. Besides, a lot of Brawl stages appear to be platform based.

In the big picture anyway, if you look at how much members are in these boards and assume that all of these members are hardcore purists, then look at how much the number of people bought Melee, elitists that reside in this board only account for about 1% of the sales. And that means that Sakurai has to appease the majority, you know.

But to reiterate, Brawl is not Melee. They could have called SSBM-2.

Just my rambling two cents.

I've been lurking in this board for too long and I just want to say something.

Dude you are completely right. I believe smash bros brawl will be deeper, its just that most of us who got far in melee are now devastated that we have to start all over, we wanted a few changes but not something like this. Brawl changed too much, of course no matter how perfect they try to make it, the game wont be completely perfect and now it will be this communities job to find every little glitch this game can offer. This air dodging thing sounds complicated, we might end up finding more depth than before. For now im going to enjoy my melee. Lol no more WD? seems like its the Falcon era, Knee, knee and um knee.

Plus--- Sakurai FU for taking out WD and possibly even L-canceling XD

 

[shadydentist]

Brawl will have its own advanced tactics.

The game has changed, but i dont think it has become too much shallower.

 

[choknater]

lol dogenzaka -rep

 

[The_Smash_Champ]

Brawl will have its own advanced tactics.

The game has changed, but i dont think it has become too much shallower.

Well with the crazy amount of characters we will find ingenoius ways to win trust me, Brawl is going to end up with twice the amount of techniques. You never know, Bowser might end up the new Marth, or maybe Pikachu

 

[baheffron]

Sadly, this seems to be the direction that Nintendo as a whole has been heading. They baby the game so that it's not as fun for hardcore gamers, but more accessible to the general public.