Burning Lava
Smash Journeyman
Could I get a link to this fabled thread? Sounds like a good read.
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Advanced Players... Sucks For Us
- Thread starter ksicproductions
- Start date
Burning Lava
Smash Journeyman
I've been trying to think about it that way, but it's good to see read it again. Thanks for the encouragement. I agree with most everything, except for the elitist crap that I didn't bother quoting. I'm probably someone you'd consider an elitist.
Yeah, for a few minutes after reading some terrible hands-on stuff, I really wasn't even sure I wanted to buy the game... that thought had never crossed my mind before. I'm not one of those people who regularly claim they won't buy it if it's not like Melee. I really do want a new game, but... when EVERY good thing in Melee seems to be going down the crap shoot... I had second thoughts... and it scared me.
I think I'll hunt down Nate Bihldorff (spelling?) or someone, and see if I can get some answers.
... So what if the advanced skills have been removed? Are they all that made the more skilled of you all excellent smashers? If that's truly so, then this is a truly great change, as it will reveal the weakness in your playstyle.
But true great smashers do not simply rely on advanced skills, but use their own technique and strategies in tandem with various skills to achieve victory. Think about it - there are no doubt hundreds who are proficient as using the various high-level techniques, but a select number of smashers nearly always come out on top. That is due to skill and pure excellence at the game.
And so, even if every single high-level technique is gone, there's no need to cry that "high-level play is gone!" All you need are great technique with the ability to string along combos effectively, and the ability to utilize effect mind-games upon the opponent, and various other skills.
Besides, as other posters have stated, other techniques could be discovered! The game isn't out yet; it's way too early to be singing songs of gloom and doom.
But true great smashers do not simply rely on advanced skills, but use their own technique and strategies in tandem with various skills to achieve victory. Think about it - there are no doubt hundreds who are proficient as using the various high-level techniques, but a select number of smashers nearly always come out on top. That is due to skill and pure excellence at the game.
And so, even if every single high-level technique is gone, there's no need to cry that "high-level play is gone!" All you need are great technique with the ability to string along combos effectively, and the ability to utilize effect mind-games upon the opponent, and various other skills.
Besides, as other posters have stated, other techniques could be discovered! The game isn't out yet; it's way too early to be singing songs of gloom and doom.
Awesomely Awesome AJ
Smash Rookie
So just because they got rid of an "exploit of the physics engine" (since you can't call it a glitch without being shot) that means this game is baby-fied? Next time you have a thought...just let it go.
greenblob
Smash Lord
No, the game is "baby-fied" by the supposed easier gameplay.
Katy Parry
The Only Zelda in Indiana
All my work.....practice.....7 years.....all down the drain....
I just learned advanced techniques about a month ago and to hear something like this, im not surprised at all. Just wait till the game comes out and I have no doubts of there being new advanced techniques. I'm actually looking forward to Fox's Short Hop Triple Laser, sounds interesting.
Eternal phoenix Fire
Smash Hero
Just to let people know, i'm a heavy competative player, and here is what I have to say after I played brawl despite the changes...
I loved it, simply amazing. Playing it alone will change your views of advanced play.
Even if you are an advanced player, you'll love this game, period.
I loved it, simply amazing. Playing it alone will change your views of advanced play.
Even if you are an advanced player, you'll love this game, period.
Burning Lava
Smash Journeyman
If you're sad about some of the latest news, check out this thread. It's meant to help those of us who are trying to be optimistic even if we were "men of techs."
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=120665
Somewhere around page 10 maybe, is people start having to deal with the news. On page 11 the topic starter makes another post, still trying to be optimistic. If you just want to be mad, don't go there... if you're like me, disappointed and heart broken, but trying to get over it and move on, go there for some solace.
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=120665
Somewhere around page 10 maybe, is people start having to deal with the news. On page 11 the topic starter makes another post, still trying to be optimistic. If you just want to be mad, don't go there... if you're like me, disappointed and heart broken, but trying to get over it and move on, go there for some solace.
Maricalistaro
Smash Journeyman
Nice to hear from somebody who actually played the game. Thank you for raising my spirits, hats off to you good sir.
Mama
Smash Ace
Not to mention the fact that it was the players that made Melee what it is and it will be the same for Brawl. The advanced players will create the advanced techniques for Brawl. Its not the techniques that make them great. HugS is already trying to coin the edge hug (more power to him). So even in the demo (which could be drasticaly different from the finished product) people retain the mind of an advanced Smasher. I'm confident Brawl will be spectacular.
Awesomely Awesome AJ
Smash Rookie
And what makes it easier? That you can't wave dash? That L-Canceling is automated? None of that made Melee "hardcore" anyway. It was the competitive spirit that the game created.
Bowser King
Have It Your Way
i stand by awsomely awsome aj WD never made the game more hardcore but without it mabye some of us will find actual tech not glitchs (and no i am not against WD or l-canceling)
Darkurai
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2007
- Messages
- 3,012
That's because it is.
BigRick
Smash Master
If you want to play something that is really really deep, then simply play something ELSE than smash bros seriously guys
Smash was designed as a party game in the first place
Smash was designed as a party game in the first place
Burning Lava
Smash Journeyman
^^^ Ooo, ouch! Wrong thing to say in Smash Brothers Forum. (We take our Smash VERY seriously... and most people here believe Smash is the deepest fighter there is.)
x4FoSho4x
Smash Ace
You don't understand how much it makes the game worse. Auto L-Canceling? Thats ********. I do agree with Mama tho even without WDing the game will be good, but auto l-canceling is bad. The game is very much in-depth FYI
QFT
Johnknight1
Upward and Forward, Positive and Persistent
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2007
- Messages
- 18,979
- NNID
- Johnknight1
- 3DS FC
- 3540-0575-1486
It isn't that big of deal, after thinking about it. If ou ask me, it could be a good thing. At least Wavelanding returned, and we already have found TWO NEW TECHS IN ONE/TWO DAYS! That's HUGGGGGEEEEE! Seriously, there will be more ATs, that is a promise. Plus look at the DI...it's even CRAZIER/BETTER THEN SSB64's! It's insane...the game is going to be great. It's almost like we're going from Street Fighter II to Super Smash Bros. Melee, seriously. 
SuperMajinLink 287
Smash Lord
WTF, Auto L-Canceling?! That's too easy...
Also, I'm not complaining about WDing being gone, in fact, I'm glad it's gone.
Also, I'm not complaining about WDing being gone, in fact, I'm glad it's gone.
x4FoSho4x
Smash Ace
Why are you Glad? You shouldn't be. I'm not saying you should be sad. But its something being taken away from the game that wasn't harmful.
Red Exodus
Smash Master
The only reason I can see WD out being good is:
YOSHIDO
Smash Ace
yeah. Like im a lil worried that it won't be as deep. An that there won't be to much to practice at all. But the game is still gonna be fun. And where still gonna have great moments in smash. Right now people including me a little is scared on how long it will last. But think if we just embrace it. its gonna be great.
Thino
Smash Master
why is auto Lcancelling ********? it make things easier
Noypi_GjD
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2006
- Messages
- 473
>.> But competitive smash has usually been so easy going lol. You don't see stabbings due to competitive smash in the news
Its more like 'no'Lcancelling, if all moves delay the same no matter what. I kind of enjoyed the idea of Lcancelling for a few moves like Link's Dair. Its like two people jumping a fence and running from the cops, the guy who knows how to land more efficiently who have an advantage right. It kind of seems ******** to not reward the player who practices.
Gum
Smash Journeyman
Don't be so close-minded. I think you are sorta underestimating the new mechanics that have been introduced, such as jumping on people'e heads. Could turn out to be a useful tactic. Also, the game isnt even out yet, so we still have to find all the new advanced techs, like ink dropping for example, which is a new advanced tech that could take the place of conventional wavedashing and open new ways to mind game your opponent.*Note*- Hey guys is Karem! I'm the one who had the Melee Tournament at his house a year ago in Port Richey, Florida. One of the best, missed you guys! ( Had to make a new account, forgot my user name lol )
I really need some reinsurance. Is there any hope for us advance players? I wanted a game that was deeper then Melee. Not a game with millions of new weapons/maps/characters. Ugh, just feels like the game is just not going to be as deep. I thought they would be putting new stuff in, not taking stuff out.... but wait.... not i can jump on someones head..... ya thats going to make this game so advanced. Thats a cool thing in all but only for a fun match with friends " Haha I just stepped on your head.... hahahaha!! ". It just seems the game is made for people who like to put it on 4 players and fight. Not people who go to tournaments to see who is the best, like myself( I love going to tournaments ). It feels there just babying the game a little but i trust the staff so im just hoping they dont screw over the hardcore gamers( which so far, thats how it seems ).
Take Care Guys And It's Good To Be Back
-KSic.
HugS
Smash Champion
I didn't know the topic starter was an "advanced player', but ok.
I'll just make some quick points.
Smash was intended to be a FUN party game, but it was also understood by the developers that a balanced game gives itself longevity. A game that isn't any fun won't be played to begin with. An unbalanced game is fun for a few days, but is later tossed aside. Keep both views in mind.
Truly advanced players most likely have nothing to worry about. On top of probable fixes to the demo by the developers in the coming months, the game will be played enough to turn it into a balanced fighter. Smashers can rest assured that this is not like smash 64. It plays like smash 64, but it balances like Melee. We will find counters to a lot of things, so give it a chance.
I'll just make some quick points.
Smash was intended to be a FUN party game, but it was also understood by the developers that a balanced game gives itself longevity. A game that isn't any fun won't be played to begin with. An unbalanced game is fun for a few days, but is later tossed aside. Keep both views in mind.
Truly advanced players most likely have nothing to worry about. On top of probable fixes to the demo by the developers in the coming months, the game will be played enough to turn it into a balanced fighter. Smashers can rest assured that this is not like smash 64. It plays like smash 64, but it balances like Melee. We will find counters to a lot of things, so give it a chance.
SuperMajinLink 287
Smash Lord
Mama
Smash Ace
Nothing more needs to be said lol.
Thino
Smash Master
what if the next fence is lower? they're not gonna jump over the same fence
is the fact of pressing no button for a landing lag that will be the same as Lcancelled Melee aerials bothering you?
id agree with you if all brawl aerials had horrendous landing lag , you practiced your Lcancel on Melee , keep it on Melee
THK
Smash Journeyman
I'm curious. Does one person's skill in one game determines skill in the other?
Is a person godly at Street Fighter 2 godly at Street Fighter 3?
Is a person great at Tekken 3 great at Tekken 5?
The Soul Series?
The answer is no. Learn the freaking game, please.
Doggalina
Smash Lord
Just thought that was pretty funny.
I agree with the poster about "just master the characters", but, the thing about advanced techniques is they are universal (all characters) things you can do that you have to do a lot. not just strategy but precise timing etc. Things like l-cancelling, wding, bomb jumping, don't see why they'd be taken out, why not put as much stuff in
brawlpro
Smash Master
it doesn't really suck for us, I'm sure there will be new advanced techniques in brawl.
Jigglymaster
Smash Hero
It dosn't suck for me at all. Jigglypuff hardly needed Wavedashing or L Canceling,
Rapid_Assassin
Smash Master
Before you guys judge that Brawl won't be deep based on what we know about the game now:
Here is a tournament match from 2002. http://youtube.com/watch?v=O-xSNzYqHGg Compare with any recent tournament matches.
Here is a tournament match from 2002. http://youtube.com/watch?v=O-xSNzYqHGg Compare with any recent tournament matches.
brawlpro
Smash Master
Jiggly is yet to be confirmed.
Rapid_Assassin
Smash Master
Yeah, but he's saying that he didn't need it as much as some of you other people so he won't miss it as much.
Darkurai
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2007
- Messages
- 3,012
Stop whining. "Oh no, wavedashing was taken out! We're doomed!" God you guys are stupid. Someone call the WHAAAAAAmbulance.
I spent six years playing Melee, and eventually I got really good at it. I wouldn't call myself a pro or an expert, and I certainly wouldn't call myself one of the best, but I can still hold my own in a tournament for a bit.
Then I went back and played the original Smash Bros. at my friend's house. I hadn't played it in years since my copy doesn't work anymore (it always freezes thirty seconds in). And you know what?
I sucked.
You wanna know why?
64 and Melee are two different games.
Melee and Brawl are two different games.
Get over it.
I spent six years playing Melee, and eventually I got really good at it. I wouldn't call myself a pro or an expert, and I certainly wouldn't call myself one of the best, but I can still hold my own in a tournament for a bit.
Then I went back and played the original Smash Bros. at my friend's house. I hadn't played it in years since my copy doesn't work anymore (it always freezes thirty seconds in). And you know what?
I sucked.
You wanna know why?
64 and Melee are two different games.
Melee and Brawl are two different games.
Get over it.
Killer Tree
Smash Journeyman
I would just like to say that more advanced techniques doesn't always equal a better game for advanced players. Take Halo 3 for example, there is no Double Shot or BXR yet pretty much everything still thinks it's a better game.
