Advanced MK Discussion

[Dojo]

I use it alot. Depending the opponent, where they are, what they're doing, etc.

 

[SmashMan_026]

wow. so is this a thing i should keep doing or not bother with?

 

[Dojo]

Well as long as it works for you well enough so that you dont get punished for it as your recovering keep at it.

 

[Odigo]

I dont understand the advantages of using dimensional cape to renew SAF over simply jumping back to the edge. If anything, it seems less reliable because if you dont space it right you can overshoot the ledge and then you have to wait to fall back to it. Can someone actually explain it to me?

 

[Affinity]

I dont understand the advantages of using dimensional cape to renew SAF over simply jumping back to the edge. If anything, it seems less reliable because if you dont space it right you can overshoot the ledge and then you have to wait to fall back to it. Can someone actually explain it to me?

I normally just drop down and jump up to grab the ledge again.

I'd rather not risk getting edgehogged and free-falling to death.

 

[Odigo]

I normally just drop down and jump up to grab the ledge again.

I'd rather not risk getting edgehogged and free-falling to death.

Which is exactly my point, so why use dimensional cape instead of just jumping?

 

[Eclipse008]

I would only ever use any of those dimentional edge techniques if I could see I needed that fraction of a second to successfully ledge-guard them (and only if I was VERY sure).

As for the stalling, as far as I'm concerned if you're just hanging around mindlessly renewing frames you should be out there gimping them instead. And if you need the frames to block their recovery attack you should be able to drop and keep jumping just out of MK's ledge-snap window until the time comes to grab on.

 

[xiferp]

Isn't SL his best b-move?

I'm getting the cape to edgehog down just 'cause it looks good, really.

 

[Kiryu]

This hasn't been mentioned yet...

Down throw to forward air is a great combo and all, but another great thing to do out of a down throw is the Tornado! Unless they have a full shield (which is rare), they're either getting hit or shield poked. Mix that up with fairs, dairs and even nairs, and you've got yourself a giant mindgame from one little throw!

Also, people need to utilize offstage dairs a bit more. The low horizontal knockback is godly, and if you get the opponent far enough, you can finish them with an fair or two.

Yes to this. Dair is probably my most used aerial after Fair. At the right percentages, it will cause an explosion KO if you knock them away from the stage. Even better, it hits hard enough and the horizontal angle is straight enough and hits hard enough that it will spike them off the stage. Worst case scenario it knocks them far enough away for you go get back on stage to refill your jumps. I use it all the time against Pits and it's fiendish against Fox because the start up time on Fox Fire is atrocious. Much more reliable then nair and I find it superior despite it not having as much killing power.

D-Throw to Tornado is amazing as well. I've found when their damage/DI is too high/good to chase with Fairs or Usmashes the tornado always works. If they Tech and roll you've got them, if they DI air dodge you've got them. If they shield just tap B a bit as the shield shrinks and their head gets exposed. Additionally D-throw-dair works well too and will likely knock them off the stage, putting them at Metaknight's mercy. And unlike the Fair it's great knockback on one shot. Plus the low angle lets you chase them off the stage without wasting jumps to gain height.

Amazing move, everyone should use it more.

This is situational, but my buddy loves to pivot and smash if I chase after him when he runs away. So recently I've just dimensional caped behind him in anticipation of the pivot smash and destroyed him. I'm going to try it out some more and see if it's an effective means of keeping the pressure on the other person. Dunno about everyone else, but when I play Metaknight I do my best to always stay on top of them by any means possible and get a lot of mileage on the drill rush in that respect.

 

[Sino]

Can anyone here do a DACUS with Meta knight? I can only do it with link and not with meta knight. Below is how to do a DACUS

- Smash-Boosting (a.k.a. Snake Dashing, etc)
How to Perform: Initiate a dash attack, then do an up-smash during the beginning of the dash attack animation. Timing differs for each character.
Various Methods: C-stick down to initiate dash attack, then Up+Z to do the up-smash; C-stick down, C-stick up; A-button, C-stick up.
Effect: Character slides an absurd distance while simultaneously performing an Up-smash. Up-smash can be charged. Distance traveled varies by character, but is more pronounced than the Jump-Canceled Up-Smash. Can be done with anybody, but the following characters benefit most from this: Jigglypuff, Sheik, Link, Wario, Snake, Falco and Wolf

 

[DKKountry]

Can anyone here do a DACUS with Meta knight? I can only do it with link and not with meta knight. Below is how to do a DACUS

I personally don't do the sliding up smashes with the C-stick, when I figured it out I was using Up-smash with A and I still do. I just feel more in control when I do it with A. As far as how to do it, there's no secret or anything, just quickly slide the control stick into an upsmash at any time during your running animation. If you're having trouble with it there's not really much to do to help except to practice.

 

[Sino]

That is not what i mean. What you say is a Upsmash-dash.
THis is what i mean. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7Q2gfVEf0k

 

[DKKountry]

OMG. I can't believe that "Aerial rising" is a listed technique in this thread. I remember when this "technique" was "discovered" and I can't believe anyone still references it as advanced. It is such a common-sense (I shouldn't even call it a technique) technique that it should never EVER be listed as an advanced... anything. It's strategy can be summed up by saying "the sooner you hit the attack buttons after you jump, the sooner you will hit your opponent." Nothing advanced about it.

BTW I just discovered that if you smash the control stick to the sides when you move you will actually run as opposed to just walking if you only tilt the control stick. I'm going to refer to this as an advanced technique and call it "Assault sprinting".

P.S. I'm reeeally sorry for ranting. I don't like ranters very much... but gosh... *mumbling confused and angry comments about aerial rising*

 

[DKKountry]

That is not what i mean. What you say is a Upsmash-dash.
THis is what i mean. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7Q2gfVEf0k

Oh I see, I misunderstood. Sorri!

 

[R1ngo]

Sorry that i just can't please everyone, its just about the most important tech you need to have to even play mk without losing in my opinion, sorry to dissapoint you DK

 

[Quez256]

That is not what i mean. What you say is a Upsmash-dash.
THis is what i mean. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7Q2gfVEf0k

Ah, so it's essentially the motions for a mortar slide, right?

 

[lonelytraveler8]

Edit: Forgot to read stuff on this page. This is referring to the DACUS/smash-boost question:

I played around with it. Snake was easy and I was getting it consistently within a few minutes. I couldn't get it to work on MK. And if I did, there wasn't a noticeable difference.

 

[Quez256]

Edit: Forgot to read stuff on this page. This is referring to the DACUS/smash-boost question:

I played around with it. Snake was easy and I was getting it consistently within a few minutes. I couldn't get it to work on MK. And if I did, there wasn't a noticeable difference.

Mhmm, same here. It seems that MK's speed and near-lagless attacks make it near-impossible to execute certain AT's; DPC'ing comes to mind as well as this dash-grab-upsmash tech. It's reasons like this that caused me to start fooling around with wavegliding as an alternative tech to get that "slide" distance for a smash/grab/etc.

 

[lonelytraveler8]

You can play with the wavegliding...it's pretty interesting and definitely useful. It's just something that can be easily overused, unfortunately. Also, I've had the displeasure of "wave-gliding" off the edge of a stage, which puts you into a helpless state. i.e. you die.

Also, I don't think MK needs the slide. He has a natural slide, or little boost when you dash into a grab. Definitely one of the best in the game. As for smashes, it's not needed for his usmash, or his dsmash (they're too fast anyway). Getting that slide in from whatever technique would really only be useful for tricking or throwing your opponent off, or trying to sneak in a fsmash.

I haven't played with wave-gliding much. I do it a lot by accident. However, I'm going to experiment with it a bit and consider putting it into the video tutorial(s) I'm working on if I can see it being useful enough.

 

[Sino]

Thanks for testing DACUS with Metaknight. Now I know that I have done it right. I can do DACUS with link but with MK I didn't notice any differents from a normal dashing upsmash

 

[IceDX]

Can Someone Tell me how Is waveGliding Performed I saw a post about it on the Pit Section but i herd that it could Also be done with MK But I dont seem to nail it.....

 

[DKKountry]

Sorry that i just can't please everyone, its just about the most important tech you need to have to even play mk without losing in my opinion, sorry to dissapoint you DK

But.... it's.... not a tech...

It's just attacking as soon as possible after you jump. It's a possible action in every fighting game I've ever played, just like moving right or left.

Let's make a truce, I'll use the term "aerial rising", if you use the term "assault sprinting" to describe running. Deal?

 

[lonelytraveler8]

The wave gliding is performed (at least how I do it...I haven't seen an explanation) by attacking just before you hit the ground from a glide. You're trajectory should be pretty near parallel with the ground.

But.... it's.... not a tech...

It's just attacking as soon as possible after you jump. It's a possible action in every fighting game I've ever played, just like moving right or left.

Let's make a truce, I'll use the term "aerial rising", if you use the term "assault sprinting" to describe running. Deal?

Well, it's only possible with Meta Knight. And it's only possible if you have tap jumping on. It must be done without the c-stick.

But yes, it is a matter of holding up and mashing A. I think it's a a unique enough ability to call it something like aerial rising simply because it's only useable by one character and is a common and useful ability.

 

[R1ngo]

i do it with tap jump off

and i didn't name or try to take credit for any of the techniques here, i just posted them to help newer players get beyond the bspam stage of playing mk

 

[xiferp]

Okay, if you really don't want to refer to it as a technique, don't. It's an easier way of saying attacking at the exact moment you rise by jumping. I'd rather say aerial rising than that long phrase every time I wanted to say that. :|

 

[DKKountry]

But how often do you need to say that? It's a natural concept that doesn't need to be abbreviated because I have never heard anyone ever ask "how did you attack so quickly after jumping!? You must've just hit the buttons really fast huh!?"

 

[R1ngo]

why does everyone have to be so nit picky, this is a helpful thead and now its being complained at b/c of a name of a technique from someone who hasn't posted in any other MK thread. this is the problem with smash boards, no one will say, thanks thats a usefull tip, someone always has to flame it

 

[ShaolinAce]

Thanks thats a useful tip.

 

[DKKountry]

*grits teeth* Thanks *grumble grumble* that's a useful tip. *grumble grumble aerial rising grumble grumble*

Sorry for being nit-picky R1ngo.

 

[R1ngo]

much appreciated

 

[Sino]

I wanna find someone that is a decent/good metaknight fighter to fight against and learn about him. I hope someone will train and ditto with me sometimes, i prefer european people.

 

[RATED]

hi everyone on this thread first of all , I am a MK mainer to and I read a post in this thread I can't remember from who but say this " when I dtlt I go with fair or running grab" I say actually to that NO don't do that! thats one of the reason that snakes beats mk , bcuz of that mixup. actually when I do Dtilt and my oponent doensnt' trip I just go back or do some back air but not to the opponent I just do it like a fake.it works and is safe , theres no need to hit after dtilt if he doesn't trip , but u can hit him with anoher dtilt depending the character.

thanks and if I am incorrect just tell or send a pm to help me

 

[_Phloat_]

hi everyone on this thread first of all , I am a MK mainer to and I read a post in this thread I can't remember from who but say this " when I dtlt I go with fair or running grab" I say actually to that NO don't do that! thats one of the reason that snakes beats mk , bcuz of that mixup. actually when I do Dtilt and my oponent doensnt' trip I just go back or do some back air but not to the opponent I just do it like a fake.it works and is safe , theres no need to hit after dtilt if he doesn't trip , but u can hit him with anoher dtilt depending the character.

thanks and if I am incorrect just tell or send a pm to help me

I.. I don't understand exactly what you are trying to say.. Try to gather your thoughts and post them more legibly? If you are new to english I understand.

If you are talking about using MK's d-tilt as a trap then yes, it is the best d-tilt trap in the game, getting d-tilted is never ever good, even if you are shielding.


Ok, time for my question.

What aerials of Meta Knight's should I be fastfalling. I mean off of short hops as I space to pressure their shield. If I FF then I hit the ground earlier meaning I start to recover through his almost nonexistant lag faster, but If I just float down then they don't lag at all =\.

Any help from a fairly "technical" player would be greatly appreciated.

 

[RATED]

oh pardon I am not good at english writing , I can read and understand it at perfection.

and Idon't know if I am the correct person to answer ur question: I fast fall : fair but not always, and u can fast fall bair is really safe to do that too.

edit: u can vary with both doing fast fall or not, some fast falls and some not .

 

[ckm]

I.. I don't understand exactly what you are trying to say.. Try to gather your thoughts and post them more legibly? If you are new to english I understand.

If you are talking about using MK's d-tilt as a trap then yes, it is the best d-tilt trap in the game, getting d-tilted is never ever good, even if you are shielding.


Ok, time for my question.

What aerials of Meta Knight's should I be fastfalling. I mean off of short hops as I space to pressure their shield. If I FF then I hit the ground earlier meaning I start to recover through his almost nonexistant lag faster, but If I just float down then they don't lag at all =\.

Any help from a fairly "technical" player would be greatly appreciated.

This is a very interesting question, and probably even deserves a thread of its own. I have mained mk since the game was released, and although I feel I have a pretty solid airgame, I am still unsure about fastfalling Fair and Bair. I think I can explain the rest, though.

Nair
Nair is a long-lasting attack, and if you land during the animation, you will have considerable landing lag. Therefore, fastfalling the attack is only really useful when you do a short/medium hop, wait for MK to reach the peak of his jump, then fastfall it. Usually, this makes MK complete the animation before he lands, leaving you with no lag. I have found, however, that if you do a "true" short hop (he barely leaves the ground), this move will perfectly autocancel without fastfalling. If you use this attack on the way down from a jump and try to fast fall it, you will have landing lag. So dont do it.
Dair

First off, mk's dair is a special case. Unlike most characters, mk has multiple jumps and a dair that has basically no air lag after performing it. This allows a mk player to do an upward-moving downair, (by jumping just as you execute it) and then immediately follow with another jumping dair. The problem this presents is that after a couple dairs, mk travels too high to hit his opponent, in most cases (or you have to wait too long for mk to float downwards into attack range). To fix this, I Fast fall between downairs, and jump while using them... which results in successive, upward moving dairs. When done quickly (this can take some practice.... I personally like to use tap jump), this can really wear down shields, and often tricks people into trying to shieldgrab or upsmash you... which you can immediately punish. So... dair i dont recommend ACTUALLY fastfalling, as it will cause you to have some landing lag, which is easily shieldgrabbed.

Upair

I see no point in fastfalling this attack, but I could be wrong.

Fair/Bair

This is where things get a little fuzzy, as you pointed out in your post. These attacks are multiple hits, and if you land during one of the swings, you will have a very tiny bit of landing lag. Personally, I have 4 different uses for fair, and only one of them could really benefit from fastfalling. Let me explain:

1) Forward-moving Fair.

I usually use this when really pressuring. Often when chasing an opponent who is backing off or when trying to link some attacks together on an opponent who is flying back from my attacks. If I use this against a grounded, steady opponent, I usually try to space it so that I land just out of reach of a shieldgrab, and then follow with tilts immediately upon landing. The forward DI on this attack makes it impossible to fastfall, so theres no use for fastfalling here.

2) Retreating Fair.

When getting pressured, this is a good way to retreat. Again, the back DI will make it impossible to fastfall it.

3) Neutral DI Fair.

This is the only time you could even possibly Fastfall. I actually do fastfall it, because usually when I am doing this I have already spaced myself perfectly by walking/running/sliding. I then follow with tilts or another Fair. This fastfalling is still questionable, because as you said, the fastfall will often (unless you have amazing timing and can land BETWEEN SWINGS every time) end up causing you some minor lag... However, my personal, unscientific observation is that it seems that I can react faster afterwards than if I were to wait to land without lag.


4) Forward jumping/Back DI Fair

This is more of a probing, cautious fair. I use this attack when I fear that the opponent is simply waiting for me to attack so he can counter. I jump towards them, Fair (you should strike with just the tip of the sword), then DI backwards immediately so I land out of range of any counter or shieldgrab. Just like the other DI'd Fairs, this move cannot be fastfalled.

There you have it, hope that helps... I would be really interested to hear other people's answers as well. I have no close friends that play MK much, so I dont get to discuss these things very often with good MK players.

 

[Rkey]

I know a few:

The dimenisional edgehogging is great for mindgames for a special reason. If you hold b to make him slice while pushing the analog stick the proper way, you will land att the edge of the stage striking, yet the startup looks like a dimensional edgehog. It's pretty cool, and great for owning edgeguarders thinking "puny edgehog tech, I shall punish!", 'cus then you go "SLICE!"

His Shuttle Loop can also be canceled, if you land about where the gilde starts I think (not sure). With no lag, you can then do any attack. I'd recommend nado

Since the dimnsional cape is fully controllable, you can stand on the edge and then steer it so that MK will re-appear grabbing the ledge. I think this is faster than wallhugging.

 

[Rkey]

I know a few:

The dimenisional edgehogging is great for mindgames for a special reason. If you hold b to make him slice while pushing the analog stick the proper way, you will land att the edge of the stage striking, yet the startup looks like a dimensional edgehog. It's pretty cool, and great for owning edgeguarders thinking "puny edgehog tech, I shall punish!", 'cus then you go "SLICE!"

His Shuttle Loop can also be canceled, if you land about where the gilde starts I think (not sure). With no lag, you can then do any attack. I'd recommend nado

Since the dimnsional cape is fully controllable, you can stand on the edge and then steer it so that MK will re-appear grabbing the ledge. I think this is faster than wallhugging.

I'm bumping myself, yes, but I want you to tell me if it's good or not.

 

[Zinc Elemental]

I know a few:

The dimenisional edgehogging is great for mindgames for a special reason. If you hold b to make him slice while pushing the analog stick the proper way, you will land att the edge of the stage striking, yet the startup looks like a dimensional edgehog. It's pretty cool, and great for owning edgeguarders thinking "puny edgehog tech, I shall punish!", 'cus then you go "SLICE!"

Unless they've been hanging there for a long time (never a good idea), they're going to have invincibility frames. Be very careful of that...

His Shuttle Loop can also be canceled, if you land about where the gilde starts I think (not sure). With no lag, you can then do any attack. I'd recommend nado

Are you sure you aren't thinking of canceling it with no lag by glide attacking immediately before landing?

Since the dimnsional cape is fully controllable, you can stand on the edge and then steer it so that MK will re-appear grabbing the ledge. I think this is faster than wallhugging.

This was mentioned in the OP. It's a tiny bit faster than edgehugging, but it's not worth the risk of SDing (or just appearing on the stage, missing your oppurtunity to edgehog) unless you've really got the timing down perfectly.

 

[Rkey]

Unless they've been hanging there for a long time (never a good idea), they're going to have invincibility frames. Be very careful of that...

I used the wrong phases, I mean if MK is hanging on the ledge, doing the dimensional stall or what to call it, and THEY aproach from the stage... Then MK hits THEM as a surprise attack.

Are you sure you aren't thinking of canceling it with no lag by glide attacking immediately before landing?

No, I wish I could put a video up, but it actually cancels automatically if you land in the frames where the shuttle becomes the glide (Turns out it was easier than I thought).

This was mentioned in the OP. It's a tiny bit faster than edgehugging, but it's not worth the risk of SDing (or just appearing on the stage, missing your oppurtunity to edgehog) unless you've really got the timing down perfectly.

Wavedashing to grab the edge wasn't easy either What's the OP?

 

[Zinc Elemental]

I used the wrong phases, I mean if MK is hanging on the ledge, doing the dimensional stall or what to call it, and THEY aproach from the stage... Then MK hits THEM as a surprise attack.

Hmm, I misunderstood you then. Still, be careful of their invincibility frames.

No, I wish I could put a video up, but it actually cancels automatically if you land in the frames where the shuttle becomes the glide (Turns out it was easier than I thought).

Hmm, I'll have to look at this.

Wavedashing to grab the edge wasn't easy either What's the OP?

Original post.

T
Dimensional Edge Hogging[/COLOR]: This is not a necessary technique but can be quite useful, its pretty good for refreshing SAF's on the edgehogging.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=AAKj8wKH0qQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4a-vqKEY68Y