Active Player Thread: Ones who does not have Triforce can't go in

[Dcold]

Well that's really the point of it being a disadvantage rather than even. It gets us closer to killing him, but it's still a chore to kill him. I really think it's a straight forward MU, it reaaaaaally isn't that bad after playing it a couple times.

 

[Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.]

I think its a -2 disadvantage, like killing is just too important

I feel like lucario is too heavy to die off stage from our aerials... idk i really hate the MU. I'll just truet u guys that its -1.

Like it's quite possible that its my style of play thats giving me such a hard time... like how i used to get destroyed by marth. Hopefully some vids of this MU get uploaded I'd like to study it.

 

[phi1ny3]

His recovery is the thing you want to nail, that's one of his biggest weaknesses. One trick I like is timing weak hits from bair or nair to throw off timing, counter-zone an aerial being thrown near you, or interrupt their double jump, and then hit them with a stronger aerial when they fully commit to using upB (because the startup on it is pretty bad). I think sheik has some decent moves that can put lucario in a lower angle offstage so it makes it somewhat easier to try, and sheik has a good double jump to retaliate to things lucario does when recovering high. The more you can keep him offstage, the less you have to deal with his mixups and onstage dominance as he gets more aura, basically you sorta punish him a bunch early game, chip away later in the game, then try to find opportunities to get him offstage to make him more susceptible to dying (whether from edgeguarding or reading with your kill moves), both of which are waaaaaay easier said than done.

I agree it's not as bad as ICs/Pika/arguably MK, but I'm not sure about it being even

 

[Death Arcana]

Prob because you quit for a while, and while you did, these other guys placed at some tourneys? idk, sheik is kinda scarce unless you count pocket ones lol. Billy seems to get stumped on a couple of MUs haha, but does pretty well in others.

Havok said his sheik was pretty good when he went down there, and he has a couple of decent videos with his sheik (like against Jerm's TL). That being said, I do think both could do with some consistency.

I think Lucario is very dependent on Lucario's playstyle, I personally love choking up lucarios in sheik's strong zones and scaring them (I sometimes use Sheik on lucarios in our area, but depends on which ones), but I haaaaate it when they play really smart with spacing and feints, and it's really scary to throw needles at a certain percent because of high aura AS (not to mention it's a nasty landing trap if the Lucario's good at using it). Oh yeah, and his uair is just nasty against us if he starts a juggle (kills pretty early even with moderate aura, and if you dodge it he can dair you out of your air dodge or even ff -> AS like I've seen Trela do). His aerials in general are really good if you try to fight them, although the dair is fun to bait at times (I've did a gimp once by sweetspotting a double jump fair once when the lucario daired right above me then edgehogged)

I actually haven't seen Tree's Falco in any videos lol, then again I didn't search falco up much haha

Quit for a while? Lol looking at the tourny results thread the only people who even put up results were Scary, Tutu, and me.

On the ground Lucario can't compete with us really, in the air, you're gonna get juggled probably. It's not terrible like I said really...especially since we move much faster than he does, Aura Sphere is relatively slow and avoidable from a decent range (as you shouldn't be that close to him if his aura is high enough to kill you easily). Just have a problem killing. His landings aren't particularly great unless I'm missing something. But he can combo and kill, and gets stronger since we can't kill easily. On paper it's terrible if you look at it in black and white, but in reality it's still not great, but not terrible. A -1.

Yea he can. Grab, spacing fsmash, SH aerials are pretty much a form of ground zoning.

I think Sheik vs Marth is even, same with Kirby.

F ICs tho.

The last time I played a Lucario it was against D Disciple in a bunch of friendlies. He won most ofthem... at first he won all of them, but as I started to get used to the MU it seemed like it was bad, but winnable. It's not nearly the same feeling as fighting against ICs, or MK, at least for me. Also phil I read your message, I'm gonna try and put those things into practice at the upcoming tournament on the 24th, thx for the advice.

Also I don't really agree with -1, cause even if we do body him on the ground, where does it get us? We cant kill him on the ground, hes way to fat, even a fresh d-smash I wouldn't expect to kill until roughly 160.

I've had Lucario's live through a dsmash at 175% fresh from the middle of FD lol.

 

[Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.]

All of sheik's move are fighting, y no super effective?

 

[phi1ny3]

Better stats yo. Also arguably part normal b/c of Zelda (Zelda always gotta be holding Sheik down)

 

[Dcold]

I'm new to going to tournaments, I'm starting to do a lot better (although cheated by the bracket >.<) but I have my set up vs John12346 (aka John Numbers) in tournament in the video thread from yesterday so...I took him to last game last hit, but couldn't get the kill as I said. No one looks at my videos @_@

 

[Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.]

O yeah, ill check that out then

Sorry D: I generally only watch videos for people that I've met offline or if I know a lot about the MU.

 

[Death Arcana]

I'll go look at it dood. I usually hate watching Sheiks because most of them are so goddamn slow. They might as well play Bowser or something lol.

 

[Dcold]

Slow and steady wins the race! And also I was kinda learning the MU whilst playing it, so there are some mistakes that only hindsight can notice.

 

[phi1ny3]

Quit for a while? Lol looking at the tourny results thread the only people who even put up results were Scary, Tutu, and me.

I mean back when you were inactive, they don't update that thread too often, and at the time they were revising it was at least 6 months ago or something lol. Now you've clearly been putting out results again

I think Sheik vs Marth is even, same with Kirby.

F ICs tho.

The last time I played a Lucario it was against D Disciple in a bunch of friendlies. He won most ofthem... at first he won all of them, but as I started to get used to the MU it seemed like it was bad, but winnable. It's not nearly the same feeling as fighting against ICs, or MK, at least for me. Also phil I read your message, I'm gonna try and put those things into practice at the upcoming tournament on the 24th, thx for the advice.

Also I don't really agree with -1, cause even if we do body him on the ground, where does it get us? We cant kill him on the ground, hes way to fat, even a fresh d-smash I wouldn't expect to kill until roughly 160.

If there was one set I could recommend for watching, it'd be Cross v. SLS (part 2), it helped me a lot in seeing proper application in the Sheik v. MK MU (besides practicing of course).

 

[Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.]

I feel like Billy has to deal with the same things I deal with in MI lol

ICs Diddy omai

Even tho I consider sheik v diddy an even MU... it's very frustrating.

 

[Death Arcana]

Where does he even live?

Doesn't he live in that State with Reflex, Kismet, and Big Lou? Georgia????

 

[Dcold]

Thankfully I haven't come across it yet, but I have ADHD and Vinnie. :l

And I believe Billy lives in Alabama, I may be wrong though.

 

[Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.]

GA and AL are basically 1 region, and i think he goes to school in one and lives in the other.

 

[Dcold]

Oh wow lol. And yeah pretty much is one region

 

[Kuro~]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjM0TdsB92g&feature=youtu.be

Ed vs kyon

 

[DMG]

"what are you talking about" I'm assuming this was rhetorical, but i'm saying that Wario is no better than a mid Tier character.

Idk who Wario's doppelganger is, but Sheik only loses 4 MUs.

MK, IC's, Pikachu, and Lucario.

I could list the characters that I think Wario loses to, but seeing as I don't particularly care to theory craft, or actively use most of them it would be a pointless waste of time that involves neither of us changing our opinion on the matter. At the very least i can say my opinion of him won't change and your opinion on the matter doesn't really matter to me.

I mean, I want you to prove that he's mid tier by listing who he loses to and what traits completely override his other high tier traits and drop him significantly. Shiek so good, oh but Wario gets Grab Release so he sucks even though... hmm he doesn't lose that many MU's because of it.

I don't have to play Shiek extensively to know that you have more than 4 bad MU's. Unless your definition of bad is worse than 6:4/ -1 on the chart. If you think Shiek has 4 bad MU's, that's pretty inflated lol. Characters with only 4 bad MU's tend to be ****in godly even if they have some ****ty ones. At the very least Shiek would be above characters like Dedede and Lucario if that were true, and it's not.

Shiek at the end of the day may be a solid mid tier, but you're crazy to argue that Wario's mid tier. Unless you think Wario loses every MU that involves a person with more range or a grab release, I don't see how you could get to that spot lol.


I mean it's your opinion I guess, but name 5 strong players that play/against Wario... heck expand that to 5 strong players period that think he's mid tier. Even if the stage list was FD only which would blow for Wario, he couldn't possibly dip down that low. That's literally how crazy that opinion sounds, even crazier than when he was voted 3rd best at a time where he probably had his best representation since the game came out popularity and player quality wise.

 

[Death Arcana]

Yea Wario is obviously top 10 in this game for the forseeable future. I don't see why people are arguing this.

 

[Dcold]

I never understood why he was ranked so high, I still don't. Not challenging it, because clearly Warios do well, but I don't know what makes him good when it seems as things are stacked against him.

 

[Jimmyfosho]

waft + aerial mobility

 

[MalcolmM]

Wario's hardest mid-tier MU is Yoshi, then Sheik. Those are the only 50-50 MU's. The rest are in Wario's favor.

Malcolm doesn't play anymore.

Reflex is better than Malcolm.

You are biased, because you have one of two easier times with Wario in mid-tier.

Put Wario in mid-tier, prepare to get bodied.

o.

This guy knows it all. He's established, has large amounts of experience in any and all mid/low-tier matchups, knows of all my results and that I no longer play. Very impressive.

 

[DMG]

I heard you went back to Sonic and only played Melee

Through the Grapevine

 

[iLight]

I heard you went back to Sonic and only played Melee

Through the Grapevine

aka trolling/lurking smashboards/4chan/facebook/google+/twitter/myspace.com 24/7

 

[sheikamaru]

Must place well at the next tourney then

 

[Dcold]

Killik, where da hell you been?

Lol seriously I haven't seen you in forever it seems O_o

 

[iLight]

Killik, where da hell you been?

Lol seriously I haven't seen you in forever it seems O_o

that's probably b/c you were looking around at night/at the dark smashboards/in dark rooms

 

[Dcold]

All of the above.

 

[sheikamaru]

I've been training somewhat intensely in my hyperbolic chambers lol

I pop in every now and then whenever I feel I can contribute to conversation or I feel the need for posted inspiration :D

 

[SinisterB]

Hey there Sheiks

I've been experimenting with your character lately and she's way too fun, been thinking about using her more. Anything I should keep in mind before I really invest some time into her? Usually I just like to get a feel for the character myself and see what works and what doesn't, but a few good tips would be great. Expect to see more of me around here.

Thanks

 

[iLight]

Hey there Sheiks

I've been experimenting with your character lately and she's way too fun, been thinking about using her more. Anything I should keep in mind before I really invest some time into her? Usually I just like to get a feel for the character myself and see what works and what doesn't, but a few good tips would be great. Expect to see more of me around here.

Thanks

expect to not win even if your better than/outplay your opponent <3

 

[sheikamaru]

Be prepared for a major set back in your tournament placings

 

[SinisterB]

LOL

my body is ready

 

[Juushichi]

Yeah, basically. You're probably better off with Wolf (you know, since he's a better character) but if you want to play Sheik go for it.

 

[Death Arcana]

Make sure you learn the character inside and out. She can be impressive if you know what you're doing with her since her frame data can overwhelm a lot of characters if you use it right.

Don't play her like Wolf though lol stay on the ground a lot more.

-Mars

 

[sheikamaru]

Lol I play wolf like sheik

 

[Dcold]

Bracket screwed AGAIN, like seriously...won a game, but others got byes so im in last. :l eh whatever, got a **** ton on replays, ill upload when I get home, got 2 weeks to get in some practice before next tourny.

 

[SinisterB]

You're not alone on the bracket **** there, D. I have a nack for getting ******** stacked brackets.

****ty deal, though.


On another note, Sheilda is way too fun.

 

[sheikamaru]

w/e u are, i love your avi <3

but yea i've been bracked ***** a lot in the past. like the past tourney i went to i got insta knocked out by olimars -.- first set was 2-0. second set i surprisingly took game one but lost the next two.

then the recent tourney i come to i run into another olimar again just my luck.

but won one then lost the next set

and i hate lucario.

 

[Orion*]

and i hate lucario.

yeahhh i played a set of that in pools saturday. extremely frustrating even though i won jesus. I actually raged game 2, I got cped to yoshis and on the second stock i made this sexy *** fair gimp, and then i tether to catch the ledge so he cant recover and the yoshis island platform randomly appeared, cancelled the tether... and i pushed b again to pull myself in and just sideBed to my death LOL.